Current Vets and Vet students: WWYD?

[pp9]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I do hear what y'all are saying, truly. I've talked to the husband about this constantly since everything started going down in May. One big onus for waiting is my 401k being fully vested with me in October. I'd lose somewhere between 8-10k by leaving now vs in late October or November. If it was just mine, it would be less concerning. But my 401k will cover us both in the long run.

Yeah I forgot you mentioned that earlier...I would wait for that myself too since you're so close. What would happen if they abruptly closed the hospital before October, though? Would another location be able to absorb you?

 

[battie]

Yeah I forgot you mentioned that earlier...I would wait for that myself too since you're so close. What would happen if they abruptly closed the hospital before October, though? Would another location be able to absorb you?

All the doctors work all three hospitals (no set schedule; absolutely wild West and a whole other thing). They actually specifically started to have me do more shifts elsewhere to help my production numbers 😅 Shockingly, my numbers are just fine at the other two hospitals.

 

[pp9]

All the doctors work all three hospitals (no set schedule; absolutely wild West and a whole other thing). They actually specifically started to have me do more shifts elsewhere to help my production numbers 😅 Shockingly, my numbers are just fine at the other two hospitals.

I mean closing one location and merging with another happens all the time. Based on those numbers....

We never were privvy to the numbers for our locations like that, just what we produced as individuals and what higher ups told us verbally. What exactly is your average caseload right now? My point of reference for FT ER is not accurate to what's happening now, but based on what I know I produced myself, I would guess our ER service alone brought in many millions each year at our busiest location in 2021 (my last full year). So seeing that your location hasn't hit even 1mil yet halfway through the year shocks me

 

[battie]

I mean closing one location and merging with another happens all the time. Based on those numbers....

We never were privvy to the numbers for our locations like that, just what we produced as individuals and what higher ups told us verbally. What exactly is your average caseload right now? My point of reference for FT ER is not accurate to what's happening now, but based on what I know I produced myself, I would guess our ER service alone brought in many millions each year at our busiest location in 2021 (my last full year). So seeing that your location hasn't hit even 1mil yet halfway through the year shocks me

1846 visits with an ATC of 468.40. And an average of 11 cases per 24 hours. And that does include the cases of "I can't afford the exam fee" that get put in the system. Which I bet we have 1-2 NDS (no doctor seen) cases per day.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Dude… that’s a sinking ship. If it was that bad at the tail end of Covid-boom, it’s not a hospital group that is going to survive an economic downturn. We can all hope and pray it doesn’t happen, but I think we need to be ready for it.

Do your best to wait until October, but make an exit plan. It’s only going to get tougher and tougher to find another job. Good thing is that you’ll get a nice head start vs. the next year of interns/vet students in looking for a position.

 

[battie]

Dude… that’s a sinking ship. If it was that bad at the tail end of Covid-boom, it’s not a hospital group that is going to survive an economic downturn. We can all hope and pray it doesn’t happen, but I think we need to be ready for it.

Do your best to wait until October, but make an exit plan. It’s only going to get tougher and tougher to find another job. Good thing is that you’ll get a nice head start vs. the next year of interns/vet students in looking for a position.

My question is why the EBIDTA expectation is so high when industry standard is 10-12%. My guess is because we're owned by private equity. During COVID, the OG hospital was making over a million per month, even up the time I joined in 2022. But the middle hospital has never done well. So it's a weird dynamic right now.

 

[juggling-zebra0831]

Sorry to turn the conversation back to this but now knowing that the House of Representative just passed the Big Beautiful Bill today, what are everyone's thoughts? I am seriously scared to start this fall even though I am going to what many would deem a more affordable program (WSU-Pullman) for OOS. Like I just can't imagine having to take on private loans and yes, I was very informed of the risks of the debt load I was taking on before applying. Any words of wisdom and sharing what you know would be appreciated! TIA!

 

[katiemcat]

I help new grads in my area with contract negotiations, and they typically get $150k for GP… and even as a baby vet in my first full year of GP ~10yrs ago I earned $140k even with a base of just $80k. I work relief shifts for $150/hr… to give you perspective. Denver ain’t a cheap area either… Not that everyone is made to drink the VEG koolaid, but have you talked to a VEG DVM in your area about how much they are getting paid as a benchmark for upper end of ER pay in your area?

Are you privy to your production numbers and the overall hospital production numbers? If they aren’t showing you in order to help you negotiate, that’s such a huge red flag. It’s good they’re paying the techs decently, but I wouldn’t take that as a reason for DVMs being paid little. I would need to see the breakdown of %DVM pay and %support staff pay of revenue before I buy that bull****.

Can confirm people in my class are getting $150k offers for GP right now.

 

[Lissarae06]

Sorry to turn the conversation back to this but now knowing that the House of Representative just passed the Big Beautiful Bill today, what are everyone's thoughts? I am seriously scared to start this fall even though I am going to what many would deem a more affordable program (WSU-Pullman) for OOS. Like I just can't imagine having to take on private loans and yes, I was very informed of the risks of the debt load I was taking on before applying. Any words of wisdom and sharing what you know would be appreciated! TIA!

I believe (and someone correct me if I’m wrong) that if you are already enrolled in a program you are grand-fathered in for the next 4 years. You should still have access to grad plus loans without the $200k cap

 

[battie]

I believe (and someone correct me if I’m wrong) that if you are already enrolled in a program you are grand-fathered in for the next 4 years. You should still have access to grad plus loans without the $200k cap

You still get access to grad plus loans. I actually don't know about the amount cap though

 

[Koffeekat]

I believe (and someone correct me if I’m wrong) that if you are already enrolled in a program you are grand-fathered in for the next 4 years. You should still have access to grad plus loans without the $200k cap

I heard that there was originally a grandfather clause in the bill but that they pulled it out and now there is no grandfathering in for people who've already started taking out loans.

Also, while the cap is going to be $200,000 for vet students, you can only take out $20,500 a year in direct unsubsidized, so realistically, if you're doing a 4-year program, the cap is $82,000.

 

[pp9]

I heard that there was originally a grandfather clause in the bill but that they pulled it out and now there is no grandfathering in for people who've already started taking out loans.

Also, while the cap is going to be $200,000 for vet students, you can only take out $20,500 a year in direct unsubsidized, so realistically, if you're doing a 4-year program, the cap is $82,000.

You'd have to read your loan terms very carefully. Technically when you take out a loan, you are agreeing to a contract of sorts - that contract goes both ways. If the US government has suddenly changed the terms of existing loans, that is grounds for a massive lawsuit I would think. But changing the terms of future loans going forward, even for current students, is probably fair game.

Can confirm people in my class are getting $150k offers for GP right now.

Straight salary, or this is their base before production?

 

[_rae_]

I heard that there was originally a grandfather clause in the bill but that they pulled it out and now there is no grandfathering in for people who've already started taking out loans.

Also, while the cap is going to be $200,000 for vet students, you can only take out $20,500 a year in direct unsubsidized, so realistically, if you're doing a 4-year program, the cap is $82,000.

It’s $20,500 per semester, not per year. We get something like $41,175 or some weird number. So still only $160k and some change. But if the cap includes grad plus loans, we’re screwed. For example, I took $84k total this year, leaving me with $116k toward that theoretical cap. That covers one more year of school tops.

Did they have any provisions for the HPSL? I haven’t seen anything about that so far. Most of my current debt load is actually HPSL, which I’m very grateful for.

 

[Koffeekat]

It’s $20,500 per semester, not per year. We get something like $41,175 or some weird number. So still only $160k and some change. But if the cap includes grad plus loans, we’re screwed. For example, I took $84k total this year, leaving me with $116k toward that theoretical cap. That covers one more year of school tops.

Did they have any provisions for the HPSL? I haven’t seen anything about that so far. Most of my current debt load is actually HPSL, which I’m very grateful for.

Oh, my aid page looks like the $20,500 is per year, but it's kind of unclear. I think I did see somewhere that the cap wouldn't count loans that already been disbursed, but grad plus loans are going away altogether.

 

[JaynaAli]

Also, while the cap is going to be $200,000 for vet students, you can only take out $20,500 a year in direct unsubsidized, so realistically, if you're doing a 4-year program, the cap is $82,000.

The new bill explicitly increases the limit for direct unsubsidized to $50,000/yr for professional students. I haven’t waded through it enough to understand and be certain about all the details about any sort of adjustment/legacy period or whatever, but from the language in the bill I’m pretty sure your statement about a 82,000 cap seems incorrect. That may have been the old cap but it’s being raised.

(source: here it is copied from section 81001 of the bill:
Annual limits beginning july 1, 2026.--
Subject to paragraphs (7)(A) and (8), beginning on July
1, 2026, the maximum annual amount of Federal Direct
Unsubsidized Stafford loans--
``(i) a graduate student, who is not professional student, may borrow in any academic year or its equivalent shall be $20,500; and
``(ii) a professional student may borrow in any academic year or its equivalent shall be $50,000.)


I could be interpreting the bill wrong, but the cap is $200k for direct loans (issue being if there’s no grad plus, there’s not really other options for most students), but I haven’t seen anything about HPSL being removed, so I’m thinking if you qualify for those they probably don’t count toward your limits? Since they’re not direct Stanford loans. Could be buried deeper than I’ve read though or I could definitely be wrong.


Edit: I actually don’t read anything about a grace/adjustment period in that specific section of the bill establishing limits and eliminating gradplus, but not sure if it’s in a later section I haven’t gotten to yet or if there’s other guidelines somewhere idk about. Will report back as I keep reading.

Edit 2: it does talk about exceptions/an adjustment period in a later section. there’s not a lot of details, just for students enrolled before the date and who have loans are excepted. So details are unclear to me but there are some exceptions laid out.

 

[Koffeekat]

The new bill explicitly increases the limit for direct unsubsidized to $50,000/yr for professional students. I haven’t waded through it enough to understand and be certain about all the details about any sort of adjustment/legacy period or whatever, but from the language in the bill I’m pretty sure your statement about a 82,000 cap seems incorrect. That may have been the old cap but it’s being raised.

(source: here it is copied from section 81001 of the bill:
Annual limits beginning july 1, 2026.--
Subject to paragraphs (7)(A) and (8), beginning on July
1, 2026, the maximum annual amount of Federal Direct
Unsubsidized Stafford loans--
``(i) a graduate student, who is not professional student, may borrow in any academic year or its equivalent shall be $20,500; and
``(ii) a professional student may borrow in any academic year or its equivalent shall be $50,000.)


I could be interpreting the bill wrong, but the cap is $200k for direct loans (issue being if there’s no grad plus, there’s not really other options for most students), but I haven’t seen anything about HPSL being removed, so I’m thinking if you qualify for those they probably don’t count toward your limits? Since they’re not direct Stanford loans. Could be buried deeper than I’ve read though or I could definitely be wrong.


Edit: I actually don’t read anything about a grace/adjustment period in that specific section of the bill establishing limits and eliminating gradplus, but not sure if it’s in a later section I haven’t gotten to yet or if there’s other guidelines somewhere idk about. Will report back as I keep reading.

Okay, that makes more sense. I'm having a hard time finding accurate information and trying to read the bill itself makes me want to tear my hair out!

 

[juggling-zebra0831]

I'm a little confused so maybe someone can clarify here for me but this is what and as I understand it for students like myself entering this fall:

• $200k federal loan lifetime cap (I've heard some things here that the cap doesn't even apply to our class but unsure?)
  • Federal loans include:
    • Undergrad (i.e., subsidized, unsubsidized, parent plus) + what is to be used during professional degree program (i.e., grad plus, unsubsidized)
• So in the instance you took out loans for undergrad, amount remaining to you for funding vet school would be: $200k - undergrad loans
• Grad PLUS underneath this new bill will:
  • For classes 2030 and beyond: cease to exist for future classes
  • For classes 2029 and earlier: providing you have taken out at least one Grad PLUS loan, you are "grandfathered" in and can continue to take out Grad PLUS to fund your education for next 3 years (either up until 2028/2029? or once $200k limit is met whatever comes first)
• There is no cap per say specifically for unsubsidized loans other than keeping within $200k federal total loan limit and only a max of $40,500 to be given annually
• If you need aid beyond the $200k federal loan limit, the only other options include:
  • Scholarships (which are minimal and even depend on whether or not your program offers them)
  • Private loans (which have high, variable interest rates with limited flexibility for repayment (i.e., no IBR))
• After your lifetime federal loan limit is met, options for pursuing further education are limited based on your own savings, scholarships, private loans, etc.
  • i.e., if you wanted to pursue residency, internship this may be less of a possibility without federal funding available

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Tbh this has been very difficult for me to wrap my head around especially with being a month off from starting school and the news well isn't the most helpful, reliable these days. TIA!

 

[JaynaAli]

• i.e., if you wanted to pursue residency, internship this may be less of a possibility without federal funding available

Internships and residencies pay you. There may be some that require graduate degrees that make you pay some tuition, I’m not sure, but my residency did not cost me a dime (in money, just cost blood sweat and tears).

 

[juggling-zebra0831]

Internships and residencies pay you. There may be some that require graduate degrees that make you pay some tuition, I’m not sure, but my residency did not cost me a dime (in money, just cost blood sweat and tears).

Thanks that does help a bit! I am still new to understanding some things. Still am unsure if I will end up specializing we'll see but good to know that it's not one of those things that is limited by funding for higher education. Terrified still though with the new rules enforced by this new bill...can't get a true read on anything it seems regardless of where I look or who I talk to 🙃

 

[indysadventures]

I'm a little confused so maybe someone can clarify here for me but this is what and as I understand it for students like myself entering this fall:

• $200k federal loan lifetime cap (I've heard some things here that the cap doesn't even apply to our class but unsure?)
  • Federal loans include:
    • Undergrad (i.e., subsidized, unsubsidized, parent plus) + what is to be used during professional degree program (i.e., grad plus, unsubsidized)
• So in the instance you took out loans for undergrad, amount remaining to you for funding vet school would be: $200k - undergrad loans
• Grad PLUS underneath this new bill will:
  • For classes 2030 and beyond: cease to exist for future classes
  • For classes 2029 and earlier: providing you have taken out at least one Grad PLUS loan, you are "grandfathered" in and can continue to take out Grad PLUS to fund your education for next 3 years (either up until 2028/2029? or once $200k limit is met whatever comes first)
• There is no cap per say specifically for unsubsidized loans other than keeping within $200k federal total loan limit and only a max of $40,500 to be given annually
• If you need aid beyond the $200k federal loan limit, the only other options include:
  • Scholarships (which are minimal and even depend on whether or not your program offers them)
  • Private loans (which have high, variable interest rates with limited flexibility for repayment (i.e., no IBR))
• After your lifetime federal loan limit is met, options for pursuing further education are limited based on your own savings, scholarships, private loans, etc.
  • i.e., if you wanted to pursue residency, internship this may be less of a possibility without federal funding available

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Tbh this has been very difficult for me to wrap my head around especially with being a month off from starting school and the news well isn't the most helpful, reliable these days. TIA!

I was under the impression that the direct unsubsidized cap does NOT apply to gradPLUS, but I could be wrong. I think that’s one of those minutiae elements that could be hard to know exactly how it will play out. I’m going to email UMN and see if they have any guidance……. I’m sure they know nearly as much as we do at this point, TBH.

 

[katiemcat]

You'd have to read your loan terms very carefully. Technically when you take out a loan, you are agreeing to a contract of sorts - that contract goes both ways. If the US government has suddenly changed the terms of existing loans, that is grounds for a massive lawsuit I would think. But changing the terms of future loans going forward, even for current students, is probably fair game.


Straight salary, or this is their base before production?

Base - big corporation with a bad reputation

 

[beans2020]

@juggling-zebra0831 if you're not already a part of it, I highly recommend joining the debt free vets facebook group. Lots of good information there and the group mod, Meredith, is a financial advisor who is currently reading through the bill so she can share the most up to date information possible with us vet students. Some of the people in that group can probably answer some of your more specific questions.
(This advise goes to anyone looking for more info about finances/the bill in general!!)
Link: Log into Facebook

 

[juggling-zebra0831]

@juggling-zebra0831 if you're not already a part of it, I highly recommend joining the debt free vets facebook group. Lots of good information there and the group mod, Meredith, is a financial advisor who is currently reading through the bill so she can share the most up to date information possible with us vet students. Some of the people in that group can probably answer some of your more specific questions.
(This advise goes to anyone looking for more info about finances/the bill in general!!)
Link: Log into Facebook

Thanks! Unfortunately for reasons I won't get into here I don't have a FB page. But if anyone here can provide updates on what the financial advisor is discussing would be greatly appreciated! 🙏🙏🙏

 

[_rae_]

A lot of us are waiting for one of the admins to post. She’s reading the whole thing though so it’s taking a minute.

 

[MixedAnimals77]

Thanks! Unfortunately for reasons I won't get into here I don't have a FB page. But if anyone here can provide updates on what the financial advisor is discussing would be greatly appreciated! 🙏🙏🙏

From Meridith Jones: Here’s a summary of the changes in the bill for current and future vet students.
Most changes in the bill won’t take effect until July 1, 2026, but they’re important to understand now for students or anyone who mentors future students.
Current vet students (started school in 2024 or earlier):
✅ Good news: you are not subject to the $200k borrowing cap.
✅ Grad PLUS loans remain available up to the full cost of attendance.
⚠️ Repayment options will change for anyone who borrows federal loans after July 1, 2026. You’ll choose between the new RAP (Repayment Assistance Plan) and the Standard Plan. The RAP plan is an income-driven plan with forgiveness after 30 years. The Standard Plan will be a 25 year plan for anyone borrowing >$100k, with higher monthly payments than RAP.
🔍 Rising 3rd year students only: This is a niche scenario, but it’s possible some rising 3rd years could consider private loans for 4th year *only*, to preserve access to IBR forgiveness at 20 years. That may or may not be a good idea depending on interest rates and your specific numbers, and we’d have to run projections in a student loan consult to know if this would be a good idea.
Students starting vet school in 2025:
✅ Good news: you’re not subject to the $200k cap if you borrow for your first year of vet school.
✅ Grad PLUS loans remain available up to the full cost of attendance.
⚠️ Upon graduation, repayment options will be limited to RAP or the Standard Plan. (See the 2nd bullet point under “Current vet students” for more info.)
Students starting vet school after July 1, 2026:
🚫 $200k lifetime borrowing cap, with a $50k annual cap.
🚫 Grad PLUS loans will be eliminated. Only Direct Unsubsidized loans will be available, and many vet students will need to explore private loans.
⚠️ Repayment options will be limited to RAP or the Standard Plan.
💡 Ask your vet school if they offer Health Professions Student Loans - if you qualify, they can offer subsidized interest during school and a 5% fixed rate after graduation.
⚠️ Be cautious about borrowing for a master’s before vet school - after July 1, 2026, grad school loans will count toward the $200k cap. Same for dual degree programs (e.g., DVM + MBA)

Certainly, much of this isn’t great news. $200k simply isn’t enough for future vet students.
My goal is to make sure you have the facts so you can plan accordingly.
Keep in mind that the next administration could make changes to student loan plans in the future. It’s also possible that private lenders may eventually develop better student loan options for professional students, similar to how doctor mortgages evolved. Right now, I typically see private loan rates of 10–14% for new grads, so we’re not there yet.

 

[_rae_]

I am both relieved for myself and devestaed for anyone c/o 2030 and onward. I cannot imagine if someone chose to take a gap year this year and is now faced with this.

 

[JaynaAli]

I'm a little confused so maybe someone can clarify here for me but this is what and as I understand it for students like myself entering this fall:

• $200k federal loan lifetime cap (I've heard some things here that the cap doesn't even apply to our class but unsure?)
  • Federal loans include:
    • Undergrad (i.e., subsidized, unsubsidized, parent plus) + what is to be used during professional degree program (i.e., grad plus, unsubsidized)
• So in the instance you took out loans for undergrad, amount remaining to you for funding vet school would be: $200k - undergrad loans
• Grad PLUS underneath this new bill will:
  • For classes 2030 and beyond: cease to exist for future classes
  • For classes 2029 and earlier: providing you have taken out at least one Grad PLUS loan, you are "grandfathered" in and can continue to take out Grad PLUS to fund your education for next 3 years (either up until 2028/2029? or once $200k limit is met whatever comes first)
• There is no cap per say specifically for unsubsidized loans other than keeping within $200k federal total loan limit and only a max of $40,500 to be given annually
• If you need aid beyond the $200k federal loan limit, the only other options include:
  • Scholarships (which are minimal and even depend on whether or not your program offers them)
  • Private loans (which have high, variable interest rates with limited flexibility for repayment (i.e., no IBR))
• After your lifetime federal loan limit is met, options for pursuing further education are limited based on your own savings, scholarships, private loans, etc.
  • i.e., if you wanted to pursue residency, internship this may be less of a possibility without federal funding available

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Tbh this has been very difficult for me to wrap my head around especially with being a month off from starting school and the news well isn't the most helpful, reliable these days. TIA!

A lot of this is incorrect for your specific situation if you’re starting school this fall of 2025. See what Mixy pasted for more detailed info.

Other details:
Yes, if you are vet school c/o 2030 or later and need more than $200k to pay for school, you’d need to find scholarships, borrow from friends/family, use cash savings, or consider private student loans. I’ve read current private student loan rates are like 10-14% and they usually don’t have income based repayment options and definitely no loan forgiveness. Not going to vet school is also something to consider, unfortunately (at least until laws change again). But vets graduating in 2025-2029 should be able to continue borrowing as normal, though repayment options change.

As previously stated, the new yearly cap for direct loans for vet school will be 50k/yr for a total of 200k. This is an increase in the amount of direct loans you could previously get, but an overall decrease in available funding because gradplus will no longer be available to the c/o 2030 and beyond.

Undergrad has a separate cap…pretty sure the 200k for professional school is separate from the UG amount.

One benefit of the RAP is that there is essentially an interest subsidy, which should keep loan balances from growing unchecked like they have historically done so you’ll pay somewhat less on a tax bomb at the end. However, it is now a 30 year repayment term and since they changed the way they calculate payments the monthly payments are more when we’re talking about average vet salaries, which will mean paying longer/likely more total cost to the borrower compared to the prior plans that had forgiveness after 20 or 25 years. People who had loans before July 2026 should still have the option for IBR (or standard or the new RAP), but if you borrow anything after July 2026 my understanding is your only repayment options will be standard and RAP.

RAP does still qualify for PSLF (at least for now)

 

[juggling-zebra0831]

A lot of this is incorrect for your specific situation if you’re starting school this fall of 2025. See what Mixy pasted for more detailed info.

Other details:
Yes, if you are vet school c/o 2030 or later and need more than $200k to pay for school, you’d need to find scholarships, borrow from friends/family, use cash savings, or consider private student loans. I’ve read current private student loan rates are like 10-14% and they usually don’t have income based repayment options and definitely no loan forgiveness. Not going to vet school is also something to consider, unfortunately (at least until laws change again). But vets graduating in 2025-2029 should be able to continue borrowing as normal, though repayment options change.

As previously stated, the new yearly cap for direct loans for vet school will be 50k/yr for a total of 200k. This is an increase in the amount of direct loans you could previously get, but an overall decrease in available funding because gradplus will no longer be available to the c/o 2030 and beyond.

Undergrad has a separate cap…pretty sure the 200k for professional school is separate from the UG amount.

One benefit of the RAP is that there is essentially an interest subsidy, which should keep loan balances from growing unchecked like they have historically done so you’ll pay somewhat less on a tax bomb at the end. However, it is now a 30 year repayment term and since they changed the way they calculate payments the monthly payments are more when we’re talking about average vet salaries, which will mean paying longer/likely more total cost to the borrower compared to the prior plans that had forgiveness after 20 or 25 years. People who had loans before July 2026 should still have the option for IBR (or standard or the new RAP), but if you borrow anything after July 2026 my understanding is your only repayment options will be standard and RAP.

RAP does still qualify for PSLF (at least for now)

Thank you-I am starting vet school this fall so it is very helpful to know where things currently stand. What I had gathered earlier was just based on what I could find at the time which was very limited and vague across many different platforms...I am still appalled by everything and just can't get over how many prospective candidates this will be screwing over and the nightmare it is leading to across healthcare in general. Here's hoping to things changing and sending love to those out there who are still fighting despite the barriers now imposed! 💕

 

[battie]

Thanks! Unfortunately for reasons I won't get into here I don't have a FB page. But if anyone here can provide updates on what the financial advisor is discussing would be greatly appreciated! 🙏🙏🙏

Just here to say, you don't owe anyone anything explanation for ditching social media. I quit Facebook a year and a half ago and my life is better for it.