Curving classes

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apteryx

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This is one of those big problems I have with grading in schools. When I was in community college, grading was straight. Seriously, I had 90 credits of classes there with no curve in any of them, not even a single test.

I come to UB in the fall, and every single class has a curve. The classes I retook here are easier than my CC, yet also include a nice curve. The B's I got in CC would have easily been A's here.

I mean, I know there's nothing that can be done about it. I just had to piss and moan somewhere. Curving is ridiculous, and just caters to the apathetic attitude of immature brats living off mom and dad in college. I love generalizations.

/end crybaby-fest
 
Yeah, I guess. But I also forgot to include the question, did your school curve classes, or not?
 
Been taking college classes for 5 1/2 years and have never had a curve.

I had to earn a 93% for an A in O Chem. 82% was a B-. You should be thankful for curves
 
Usually , not always, but CC classes are easier than most university classes (from my experience).

I've taken classes in Ochem at my university where the average on an exam was 55% and that would be a C+/B-.
 
mm i love the curve

my old physics class had a raw score range of ~25-55% or something. 55% = A.

As long as you performed better than 50% of the class, you were guaranteed to ride the curve forward; perform worse, and you fell backwards.

it was the only way to fairly distribute grades IMO. if everyone got 90%+ in a class of 400....that's grade inflation or something, makes an A worthless. A's should be relative to how you do against your peers (like how the PCAT is graded on a percentile basis).
 
koercive said:
Usually , not always, but CC classes are easier than most university classes (from my experience).

I've taken classes in Ochem at my university where the average on an exam was 55% and that would be a C+/B-.
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That's one of the things that makes me slightly bitter. I know people who have a B for O Chem on their transcripts and they had a 60% in the class. I had to earn over 20 more percentage points to earn the same grade.
 
apteryx said:
Yeah, I guess. But I also forgot to include the question, did your school curve classes, or not?
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Yes many of my classes have been curved. I feel like some of the profs are being too easy on us because way too many people end up getting A's and B's. However some classes, like o-chem, would have had a 80-90% failing rate if not for the curve. I think as long as the profs are following a standard bell curve, and the majority of the class ends up with 70% its ok. You're not competing against the course anymore, you're competing against all of you're classmates.
 
phathead said:
That's one of the things that makes me slightly bitter. I know people who have a B for O Chem on their transcripts and they had a 60% in the class. I had to earn over 20 more percentage points to earn the same grade.
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Yeah either that or your professors are just making the material easier
 
Got a 92.8% in Physics and got an A-. Curves are for porn stars.
 
I got an 86 in O.Chem I in CC, which was a B. Hell, my P.Chem and inorganic chem (300-level, not 100-level) classes were easier than o.chem at CC. The possibility of me having an A for it just makes me a bit bitter, like Phathead said. The point being I haven't had a curve my whole academic career, why start now? It's ridiculous that I got a 72 on a test last semester and got an A, since it was in the top 5% of the class. Instead of making me want to work harder (which I did anyway), it just encourages doing less. I almost dropped the class until I found out it was curved! Nothing in the syllabus about it, I guess everyone assumed it was (except for me.)
 
phathead said:
That's one of the things that makes me slightly bitter. I know people who have a B for O Chem on their transcripts and they had a 60% in the class. I had to earn over 20 more percentage points to earn the same grade.
Click to expand...

Important to know that EVERY school is different. My Orgo 2 professor was new and made his own tests. Average grade on the first two was below 60%. We aren't all idiots here, trust me. And it's also important to understand that curves work both ways... when the department determines that <10% of students deserve As people get dropped down.

Community colleges where if you know X amount of material you get an A are ridiculously easy compared to the curved classes at my undergrad.
 
uncbiograd said:
Important to know that EVERY school is different. My Orgo 2 professor was new and made his own tests. Average grade on the first two was below 60%. We aren't all idiots here, trust me. And it's also important to understand that curves work both ways... when the department determines that <10% of students deserve As people get dropped down.

Community colleges where if you know X amount of material you get an A are ridiculously easy compared to the curved classes at my undergrad.
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Oh I understand that, but this was a professor who had been at the school for several years and taught in a same style as mine. It just happened that I had a very small o chem class at my school whereas they had a much larger class
 
Our science courses were much more difficult at my university (took 80% of pre-reqs) than any community college class (took physio and microbio). I felt I did a whole lot more studying and understanding to pull off an A- with a ~70% in my o chem class than getting a 93% in my CC to get an A in physio.

To be honest though, I intentionally picked the easier professor for physio. I know there are definitely CC classes that are harder than university classes and offers no curve.

On paper, an A is an A; my strategy was to maximize those.


(Similarly, I went to one of the harder magnet high schools in the nation, received a much lower GPA than I would have at my local high school - even though I had 20-100 pts above average for accepted SAT scores at UCLA/UCSD/UCB, was rejected at all of them due to my 'low' GPA).
 
Here at cal,

Things are curved to about 20-25% A's and 30% B's 35% C's 10% D and lower.

premed is hell here omg. effing 1000s of premeds to compete against ;d
 
Highest grade in my O-Chem class was an A-
Curves are for fat camp
 
My biochem professor had a curve that basically added +18% to your grade.

12/238 students made an A in that class. Without the curve, it would've been 90% failing.
 
88888888 said:
Here at cal,

Things are curved to about 20-25% A's and 30% B's 35% C's 10% D and lower.

premed is hell here omg. effing 1000s of premeds to compete against ;d
Click to expand...

Yeah... my undergrad was the same... lots of gunners/curve breakers. LOL
 
Don't like curves? Then set the curve.

phathead said:
That's one of the things that makes me slightly bitter. I know people who have a B for O Chem on their transcripts and they had a 60% in the class. I had to earn over 20 more percentage points to earn the same grade.
Click to expand...

MNMan said:
Yeah either that or your professors are just making the material easier
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Just because you made an A on your test, and a guy from another guy made a C on his, doesn't mean he is 2 letter grades dumber than you at organic.
Many factors affect this. Quality of the teacher, format of the test, range of content on the test, difficulty in which the questions are phrased.
 
Nice collar phathead. I'm sure your V-card is moldy and covered in cobwebs.
 
koercive said:
(Similarly, I went to one of the harder magnet high schools in the nation, received a much lower GPA than I would have at my local high school - even though I had 20-100 pts above average for accepted SAT scores at UCLA/UCSD/UCB, was rejected at all of them due to my 'low' GPA).
Click to expand...

smells like bravo medical magnet :idea:
 
I've never gone to a CC but the college that I go to has small classroom sizes and professors actually learn your name. I hope I can get into a pharmacy school that has a small matriculating class.
 
joh0472 said:
I've never gone to a CC but the college that I go to has small classroom sizes and professors actually learn your name. I hope I can get into a pharmacy school that has a small matriculating class.
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Private schools will be your best option there.
 
I liked the CC but we have a great system here in AZ that is definitely on par with the universities. The facilities are great, too. ASU had its strong points, but I enjoyed the CC much better (I went to CC post-bac)
 
Whats the point of complaining about curves.... Thats why I do not believe grades truly reflect the intelligence of the student..... Honestly if you think that your CC was easier than your University you should have went to a different university.. The grades you get depend on the professor you have and the University you went to... Be greatful for your curve and keep it moving.... please this should not be a discussion.... You are probably one of the students that are like " Thats not fair how did she get an A+ having a 98% and I get an A+ having 100%.... her A+ is so not the same as my A+...." My advice to you is "GET OVER IT"
 
Mersades8711 said:
Whats the point of complaining about curves.... Thats why I do not believe grades truly reflect the intelligence of the student..... Honestly if you think that your CC was easier than your University you should have went to a different university.. The grades you get depend on the professor you have and the University you went to... Be greatful for your curve and keep it moving.... please this should not be a discussion.... You are probably one of the students that are like " Thats not fair how did she get an A+ having a 98% and I get an A+ having 100%.... her A+ is so not the same as my A+...." My advice to you is "GET OVER IT"
Click to expand...

Well put.
 
Mersades8711 said:
Whats the point of complaining about curves.... Thats why I do not believe grades truly reflect the intelligence of the student..... Honestly if you think that your CC was easier than your University you should have went to a different university.. The grades you get depend on the professor you have and the University you went to... Be greatful for your curve and keep it moving.... please this should not be a discussion.... You are probably one of the students that are like " Thats not fair how did she get an A+ having a 98% and I get an A+ having 100%.... her A+ is so not the same as my A+...." My advice to you is "GET OVER IT"
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I'm sorry, I didn't realize this shouldn't be a discussion. My apologies. Send the queen my regards.

Yes, clearly I knew exactly what my professors would be like at this school before attending. I should now move to another school, because I have time and money to sample each and every university finding just the perfect bowl of porridge for myself. My point exactly being that grades don't reflect the intellect of the person. It was just something I wanted to make a topic about. So, hey, thanks for stopping by.

Seriously, WTF did that post even mean? I already said it was just a rant, wanting to know how other people felt. Captain Obvious to the rescue. And thanks for the generalization of "probably one of those students." No one asked for your advice.

Why does it seem like every opinion that is voiced on the Internet is deemed an open invitation to take a giant blabbering dump all over it? I wouldn't dream of being so disrespectful to someone in person, or online for that matter. If you disagree with an opinion, more power to you, but don't act like an ass about it.
 
apteryx--- Like I said previously GET OVER IT sweetheart!!! Please go rant in your diary or something..... Lets talk about other things... for example what schools you are getting into,how excited you are to finally embark on your journey of becoming a pharmacist, etc... things of importance!!!! I dont think curves should be a discussion... Clearly my opinion matters because your throwing a fit.
 
I don't see why this is an issue. If you're upset about it, set the curve! Some of my classes were curved and others were not. In my experience, curve doesn't mean easy A ... it means limited number of A's and way too many C's. You gotta fight to set the curve and set yourself apart statistically from the rest of the class. A true curve usually works off a guassian distribution and sets grades by standard deviations from the class average ... so if a test/instructor is impossible and the average is 60%, do yourself a favor and get that 95%. The classes that shift grading scales regardless of class statistics aren't really a curve IMHO...
 
I don't get what your problem with a curve is?

Knowing 90% of the material in an easy class is much different from knowing 90% of the material in a hard class for an A.

Doing better than 80% of your classmates will always translate into doing better than 80% of your classmates.
 
Again, throwing around the patronizing comments like sweetheart and writing in a diary...

I never said your opinion doesn't matter. Of course it matters, but you should respect others opinons as well. If you don't want to talk about it and think the conversation should stop, just leave the thread instead of making the executive decision of 'everyone stop talking, I think this is stupid.' This is a community that fosters thought and opinion;trust me, I've been here long enough. There has been much worse talked about on these boards.

Don't worry, the faceless names of the Internet can't get me to throw a 'fit'; only my wife does that.
 
See,that's the problem. If classes are really supposed to be learning the material, then the grades should be based on how much material you know. Instead, it's basically saying that the only thing that matters is the number or letter that you get after the final, not how much you actually know about the subject at hand. Instead of being grading based on material learned,it's grading based on how well the other students did. It's flawed logic, plain and simple. Don't outrun the bear, just outrun the other guy running from it too. Problem is, many people passing the class barely know anything that was taught.

Am I really just crazy? No one else thinks it's an issue of academic integrity? Screw actually learning, as long as I do better than that guy and get a nice shiny A, who cares? Sorry for the thread, just thought it was worth discussing. Maybe something different than the "do I really have a chance!!!11!1" threads all over the place.
 
apteryx said:
See,that's the problem. If classes are really supposed to be learning the material, then the grades should be based on how much material you know. Instead, it's basically saying that the only thing that matters is the number or letter that you get after the final, not how much you actually know about the subject at hand. Instead of being grading based on material learned,it's grading based on how well the other students did. It's flawed logic, plain and simple. Don't outrun the bear, just outrun the other guy running from it too. Problem is, many people passing the class barely know anything that was taught.

Am I really just crazy? No one else thinks it's an issue of academic integrity? Screw actually learning, as long as I do better than that guy and get a nice shiny A, who cares? Sorry for the thread, just thought it was worth discussing. Maybe something different than the "do I really have a chance!!!11!1" threads all over the place.
Click to expand...

Many of the classes with the most dramatic curves are the ones taken by legions of premed students, at least at UCSD. And in that case, it doesn't matter how much O chem you know, it just matters that you got better grades than the person next to you. All you really have to do is outrun the other guy. The med school admissions committee doesn't care how much organic chemistry you remember; they only care that you can work your ass off day in and day out. All that matters is that little A on the piece of paper.
The point of most of these classes, at least at this stage, isn't to teach you anything; it's to set you apart, to filter you out. The average on almost every organic chemistry test I took at UCSD was under 50%.
 
Marcus X said:
Many of the classes with the most dramatic curves are the ones taken by legions of premed students, at least at UCSD. And in that case, it doesn't matter how much O chem you know, it just matters that you got better grades than the person next to you. All you really have to do is outrun the other guy. The med school admissions committee doesn't care how much organic chemistry you remember; they only care that you can work your ass off day in and day out. All that matters is that little A on the piece of paper.
The point of most of these classes, at least at this stage, isn't to teach you anything; it's to set you apart, to filter you out. The average on almost every organic chemistry test I took at UCSD was under 50%.
Click to expand...

very true.. same here in berkeley.
mhm.
 
Marcus X said:
Many of the classes with the most dramatic curves are the ones taken by legions of premed students, at least at UCSD. And in that case, it doesn't matter how much O chem you know, it just matters that you got better grades than the person next to you. All you really have to do is outrun the other guy. The med school admissions committee doesn't care how much organic chemistry you remember; they only care that you can work your ass off day in and day out. All that matters is that little A on the piece of paper.
The point of most of these classes, at least at this stage, isn't to teach you anything; it's to set you apart, to filter you out. The average on almost every organic chemistry test I took at UCSD was under 50%.
Click to expand...

Well put.
 
Marcus X said:
Many of the classes with the most dramatic curves are the ones taken by legions of premed students, at least at UCSD. And in that case, it doesn't matter how much O chem you know, it just matters that you got better grades than the person next to you. All you really have to do is outrun the other guy. The med school admissions committee doesn't care how much organic chemistry you remember; they only care that you can work your ass off day in and day out. All that matters is that little A on the piece of paper.
The point of most of these classes, at least at this stage, isn't to teach you anything; it's to set you apart, to filter you out. The average on almost every organic chemistry test I took at UCSD was under 50%.
Click to expand...

Wow, that is exceedingly low avg score.

I also think that you can somewhat tell the people who have curved grades via their PCAT scores in those particular sections. Throwing away the test anxiety component, I would think there would be some correlation to that idea.
 
Guess I just have an idealist attitude about it. Why not build a foundation on med school classes then? If there's no point in knowing ochem, give us the professional classes already.

Any way you slice it, it's handled horribly.
 
apteryx said:
The classes I retook here are easier than my CC, yet also include a nice curve.
Click to expand...
Things generally are easier the second time you've taken them...you've already been exposed to it once.

Also you shouldn't be surprised you are receiving a lot of negative criticism, your making a pretty loaded statement that CCs are more difficult then established Universities. Also as others have said the class average for certain classes can be notoriously low and vary from institution to institution. If they didn't curve my o-chem class in undergrad 90% of people would have failed on a normal grading scale, I guess we all didn't study enough right?
 
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