Cvs "forcing" flu shots on day off

[tongiecc]

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So I hear from a co worker that some friends that work at cvs now have to try to meet a certain number of immunizations per month, and in their district if u don't get those in you have to not only try giving shots by setting up a clinic day in store on your days off, but you have to canvas the community and set up flu clinics at local churches, etc. I'm sure the DMs official answer would be these are not forced, but "suggested", if u get the drift. NEway, somebody please tell me that 1. This is just a rumor blown out of proportion (though I know that the person telling me about it is probably not lying/making it up) and 2. How can it still continue to get worse in retail. I'm totally grateful to work in hospital, but I can see that if things get this bad in retail it will eventually affect institutional pharmds. I can already see a polarization, as my hospital and others in the area now only look for experienced hospital pharms, and new grads are pretty much not even getting interviews (pgy1/2 of course being exceptions). I can't even fathom what it will be like for new grads in the coming years. I also personally know of over ten retail rphs who have been fired from walmarts, WAG, and CVS for not meeting numbers, etc and have been out of work for periods ranging from six months to nearly two years. I dont see how any of you guys can make it in retail with the high stress of a fast food like atmosphere and endless barrage of metrics to meet.

 

[Got Em]

So I hear from a co worker that some friends that work at cvs now have to try to meet a certain number of immunizations per month, and in their district if u don't get those in you have to not only try giving shots by setting up a clinic day in store on your days off, but you have to canvas the community and set up flu clinics at local churches, etc. I'm sure the DMs official answer would be these are not forced, but "suggested", if u get the drift. NEway, somebody please tell me that 1. This is just a rumor blown out of proportion (though I know that the person telling me about it is probably not lying/making it up) and 2. How can it still continue to get worse in retail. I'm totally grateful to work in hospital, but I can see that if things get this bad in retail it will eventually affect institutional pharmds. I can already see a polarization, as my hospital and others in the area now only look for experienced hospital pharms, and new grads are pretty much not even getting interviews (pgy1/2 of course being exceptions). I can't even fathom what it will be like for new grads in the coming years. I also personally know of over ten retail rphs who have been fired from walmarts, WAG, and CVS for not meeting numbers, etc and have been out of work for periods ranging from six months to nearly two years. I dont see how any of you guys can make it in retail with the high stress of a fast food like atmosphere and endless barrage of metrics to meet.

You personally know OVER TEN pharmacists that have been fired? Care to list the city and area where they were employed? I don't think so buddy. Quit posting to scare off future students. I don't think people understand how hard it is to actually fire somebody in the US who works for a large corporation. Even though you can go on numbers, there has to be verbal warnings with written out notices as well. You can bypass all of that if you did something "really bad", but that should not be the case in most situations. On the other hand, laying off is pretty easy to do, but the company has to pay.

 

[tongiecc]

You personally know OVER TEN pharmacists that have been fired? Care to list the city and area where they were employed? I don't think so buddy. Quit posting to scare off future students. I don't think people understand how hard it is to actually fire somebody in the US who works for a large corporation. Even though you can go on numbers, there has to be verbal warnings with written out notices as well. You can bypass all of that if you did something "really bad", but that should not be the case in most situations. On the other hand, laying off is pretty easy to do, but the company has to pay.

Ok

2 from advance home care high point, Nc
1 from Harris teeter Winston Salem nc (laid off)
4 from area walmarts (1 made too many errors/bentonville trips, one didn't act nice to the DM, and 2 couldn't keep up with high volume)
2 from kmarts in area (salisbury)
2 from cvs (Winston and greens boro)
3 that quit from kindred and still haven't found jobs - it's been about nine months for one guy

Go ahead and count them, if you have any doubts call the kmart in Salisbury, or an GSO area Wally world, if you still doubt me and are too lazy I can get them for you and anyone else on here this weekend.

There just proved you a liar.

Have a nice life in denial about the job market. Why don't you go ahead and email the DMs of kmart and walmart in Kansas city and ask about their (lack) of job openings, or in Raleigh NC. If you need a list of hospitals that have no job openings in these areas I can get those for you too. I can go even further in depth than this if you want to know how bad it is in retail in the KC market. Just for example, I know a guy who was fired at a big K that had to drive 3 hrs to find work in Wichita, stay there during thd week then drive back to his family on the weekends. There are still hospital positions and some retail in the areas I'm talking about in NC and KC, but u better know someone to get them, and I know for a fact that the kmart and walmart DMs here have no problem letting people go b/c I'm one of the peeps they call to cover the open shifts when they are looking for a replacement; and I hear they get 15-30 apps for each spot.

You just got owned.

 

[Got Em]

Ok

2 from advance home care high point, Nc
1 from Harris teeter Winston Salem nc (laid off)
4 from area walmarts (1 made too many errors/bentonville trips, one didn't act nice to the DM, and 2 couldn't keep up with high volume)
2 from kmarts in area (salisbury)
2 from cvs (Winston and greens boro)
3 that quit from kindred and still haven't found jobs - it's been about nine months for one guy

Go ahead and count them, if you have any doubts call the kmart in Salisbury, or an GSO area Wally world, if you still doubt me and are too lazy I can get them for you and anyone else on here this weekend.

There just proved you a liar.

Have a nice life in denial about the job market. Why don't you go ahead and email the DMs of kmart and walmart in Kansas city and ask about their (lack) of job openings, or in Raleigh NC. If you need a list of hospitals that have no job openings in these areas I can get those for you too. I can go even further in depth than this if you want to know how bad it is in retail in the KC market. Just for example, I know a guy who was fired at a big K that had to drive 3 hrs to find work in Wichita, stay there during thd week then drive back to his family on the weekends. There are still hospital positions and some retail in the areas I'm talking about in NC and KC, but u better know someone to get them, and I know for a fact that the kmart and walmart DMs here have no problem letting people go b/c I'm one of the peeps they call to cover the open shifts when they are looking for a replacement; and I hear they get 15-30 apps for each spot.

You just got owned.

In your post, you stated that you know over 10 pharmacists who were fired, yet in your reply you list people that were laid off and also quit on their own. You also failed to give information for the 4 pharmacists that were fired from Walmart. I will personally call all 4 of these stores so I can "prove" that you are exaggerating.

Nobody is doubing that these are hard times. It's one thing to say that you can't find a job, or to say that people quit/get laid off. However, knowing over 10 pharmaicsts that are FIRED is a totally different story. We have rules and laws in place in this country to prevent this from happening.

I do not have any delusions about the job market. Yes, there are certain areas in the country that are almost impossible to find a job. But then again if you make the right connections, do the work, apply outside of this area, you can usually find something, even if it's not what you want.

I just got owned? We're not in middle school anymore, son. GTFO with this.

 

[MountainPharmD]

You personally know OVER TEN pharmacists that have been fired? Care to list the city and area where they were employed? I don't think so buddy. Quit posting to scare off future students. I don't think people understand how hard it is to actually fire somebody in the US who works for a large corporation. Even though you can go on numbers, there has to be verbal warnings with written out notices as well. You can bypass all of that if you did something "really bad", but that should not be the case in most situations. On the other hand, laying off is pretty easy to do, but the company has to pay.

It isnt that hard and there does not have to be any warning in a right to work state.

 

[tongiecc]

It isnt that hard and there does not have to be any warning in a right to work state.

Thank you mountain, most of you should realize that the majority of employment in the US is "at will", thus you can be terminated at any time for not meeting metrics, lack of production, poor profitability of stores, etc. Got Em, I'll go ahead and appologize again for the owned comment, was just talking in jest/sarcasm, but you did come off quite harsh in your initial response. I really feel that you should call those stores, because as much as it may scare you, pharmacists get fired and laid off just like anyone else. I'm not trying to make it so you don't sleep at night, but just want everone to realize that this isn't 2005 anymore and there is very often going to be 10 or more pharms applying to the same job as you, DMs know this and are more than willing to cut loose those who can't perform. I know it sucks to think that you could be fired or let go as an rph, but it can and does happen. So please do yourself a favor and at least put up with the undesirable crap at your job until you can get something else lined up. I know several pharmacists who were delusional and though that jobs were still plentiful, so they either quit w/o another job lined up, or essentially didn't work up to their DMs standards and were fired, thus they were left hunting for jobs and there wasn't anything available; plus I hear it's much harder to get hired if you were let Go from your prior employer. I also would encourage any of you who read this who have any doubts to try to contact some of these stores, or any in your area to see that just because you're a pharmacist does NOT mean your cannot get fired.

Well that's the end of my little public service announcement. BTW, I could care less about the job situation in retail, since I never intend to work there; if something ever happened to the hospital job market I'll just take my 3.9 GPA and head to med/dent. What a total waste of my time, seems like whenever I even ask a question on here I get blasted about how there's no way it could be true. FYI, the whole point of this thread was for me to see if any CVS employees could confirm or deny that flu clinic rumor. No wonder I rarely post on here.

 

[Got Em]

It isnt that hard and there does not have to be any warning in a right to work state.

This is only partially true. You and I both work in Texas, which is a right to work state. If it is a small business, you can apply this law a little more freely and there is likely a smaller incentive for lawyers to sue. However, if it is a large corporation, how do you differ being fired for performance issues vs. getting fired "just because" with no reason. You can get sued for "unfair" treatment, "retaliation", and also a variety of other issues. This is the reason why most large corporations, like I mentioned, MUST document why a pharmacist is fired and if there were verbal/written warnings. We had one pharmacist in my district that had been late at least 10 times, called in for various reasons at least 15-20 times, texting when there are over 50 to type/fill, etc. She could not be fired because there was insufficient documentation. Right to work law only works in theory.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

In your post, you stated that you know over 10 pharmacists who were fired, yet in your reply you list people that were laid off and also quit on their own. You also failed to give information for the 4 pharmacists that were fired from Walmart. I will personally call all 4 of these stores so I can "prove" that you are exaggerating.

Nobody is doubing that these are hard times. It's one thing to say that you can't find a job, or to say that people quit/get laid off. However, knowing over 10 pharmaicsts that are FIRED is a totally different story. We have rules and laws in place in this country to prevent this from happening.

I do not have any delusions about the job market. Yes, there are certain areas in the country that are almost impossible to find a job. But then again if you make the right connections, do the work, apply outside of this area, you can usually find something, even if it's not what you want.

I just got owned? We're not in middle school anymore, son. GTFO with this.

They can fire you whenever they want. CVS contracts and handbook states that employments are at will only. I know many pharmacists who got fired for bs reasons.

PS. Where are the rules and laws in place in this country that prevents this from happening? I am curious...

Thanks

 

[Got Em]

Thank you mountain, most of you should realize that the majority of employment in the US is "at will", thus you can be terminated at any time for not meeting metrics, lack of production, poor profitability of stores, etc. Got Em, I'll go ahead and appologize again for the owned comment, was just talking in jest/sarcasm, but you did come off quite harsh in your initial response. I really feel that you should call those stores, because as much as it may scare you, pharmacists get fired and laid off just like anyone else. I'm not trying to make it so you don't sleep at night, but just want everone to realize that this isn't 2005 anymore and there is very often going to be 10 or more pharms applying to the same job as you, DMs know this and are more than willing to cut loose those who can't perform. I know it sucks to think that you could be fired or let go as an rph, but it can and does happen. So please do yourself a favor and at least put up with the undesirable crap at your job until you can get something else lined up. I know several pharmacists who were delusional and though that jobs were still plentiful, so they either quit w/o another job lined up, or essentially didn't work up to their DMs standards and were fired, thus they were left hunting for jobs and there wasn't anything available; plus I hear it's much harder to get hired if you were let Go from your prior employer. I also would encourage any of you who read this who have any doubts to try to contact some of these stores, or any in your area to see that just because you're a pharmacist does NOT mean your cannot get fired.

Well that's the end of my little public service announcement. BTW, I could care less about the job situation in retail, since I never intend to work there; if something ever happened to the hospital job market I'll just take my 3.9 GPA and head to med/dent. What a total waste of my time, seems like whenever I even ask a question on here I get blasted about how there's no way it could be true. FYI, the whole point of this thread was for me to see if any CVS employees could confirm or deny that flu clinic rumor. No wonder I rarely post on here.

I actually wrote this before you apologized in the other thread, so I did not mean to sound harshly after that apology. I do agree which the majority of what you're saying here. There are 22 right to work states, but this law is very ambiguous in what it does practically. I have explained why this law basically does not work as planned in my state, even when it is a right to work state. See my above post.

 

[Dkpharm]

So I hear from a co worker that some friends that work at cvs now have to try to meet a certain number of immunizations per month, and in their district if u don't get those in you have to not only try giving shots by setting up a clinic day in store on your days off, but you have to canvas the community and set up flu clinics at local churches, etc. I'm sure the DMs official answer would be these are not forced, but "suggested", if u get the drift. NEway, somebody please tell me that 1. This is just a rumor blown out of proportion (though I know that the person telling me about it is probably not lying/making it up) and 2. How can it still continue to get worse in retail. I'm totally grateful to work in hospital, but I can see that if things get this bad in retail it will eventually affect institutional pharmds. I can already see a polarization, as my hospital and others in the area now only look for experienced hospital pharms, and new grads are pretty much not even getting interviews (pgy1/2 of course being exceptions). I can't even fathom what it will be like for new grads in the coming years. I also personally know of over ten retail rphs who have been fired from walmarts, WAG, and CVS for not meeting numbers, etc and have been out of work for periods ranging from six months to nearly two years. I dont see how any of you guys can make it in retail with the high stress of a fast food like atmosphere and endless barrage of metrics to meet.

If you care about the prosperity of the store you work at, or more importantly your OWN personal and professional development, you should be networking to find opportunities for flu shots. I've done a few now, (at a few offices) got paid for it, made some good connections, and I'm better off for it.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

So I hear from a co worker that some friends that work at cvs now have to try to meet a certain number of immunizations per month, and in their district if u don't get those in you have to not only try giving shots by setting up a clinic day in store on your days off, but you have to canvas the community and set up flu clinics at local churches, etc. I'm sure the DMs official answer would be these are not forced, but "suggested", if u get the drift. NEway, somebody please tell me that 1. This is just a rumor blown out of proportion (though I know that the person telling me about it is probably not lying/making it up) and 2. How can it still continue to get worse in retail. I'm totally grateful to work in hospital, but I can see that if things get this bad in retail it will eventually affect institutional pharmds. I can already see a polarization, as my hospital and others in the area now only look for experienced hospital pharms, and new grads are pretty much not even getting interviews (pgy1/2 of course being exceptions). I can't even fathom what it will be like for new grads in the coming years. I also personally know of over ten retail rphs who have been fired from walmarts, WAG, and CVS for not meeting numbers, etc and have been out of work for periods ranging from six months to nearly two years. I dont see how any of you guys can make it in retail with the high stress of a fast food like atmosphere and endless barrage of metrics to meet.

I am going to go ahead and deny this rumor. CVS did try to force pharmacists to give "leads" to where they can set up off site clinics. A lot of pharmacists including me took it the wrong way. I originally thought that they wanted us to contact, set, and do the flu clinics.

So far, there has been no memo stating that we got to do flu clinics on our off time. However, I am more than willling to because ultimately, I will get paid when my review comes.

 

[Got Em]

They can fire you whenever they want. CVS contracts and handbook states that employments are at will only. I know many pharmacists who got fired for bs reasons.

PS. Where are the rules and laws in place in this country that prevents this from happening? I am curious...

Thanks

For 37 states, including your state, there are "implied employment contracts". You can't just get fired because they want to. If your numbers are bad, then most likely they will give you a warning and have a plan to improve. This is where documentation must come in. This is how corporations can avoid being sued for unfair treatment. Anybody that is black, female, 60+, jewish, etc can sue without sufficient documentation. What's stopping this other than to provide sufficient documents for firing with good cause?

This is what I found...
"Implied employment contracts are most often found when an employer's personnel policies or handbooks indicate that an employee will not be fired except for good cause or specify a process for firing. If the employer fires the employee in violation of an implied employment contract, the employer may be found liable for breach of contract"

 

[MountainPharmD]

This is only partially true. You and I both work in Texas, which is a right to work state. If it is a small business, you can apply this law a little more freely and there is likely a smaller incentive for lawyers to sue. However, if it is a large corporation, how do you differ being fired for performance issues vs. getting fired "just because" with no reason. You can get sued for "unfair" treatment, "retaliation", and also a variety of other issues. This is the reason why most large corporations, like I mentioned, MUST document why a pharmacist is fired and if there were verbal/written warnings. We had one pharmacist in my district that had been late at least 10 times, called in for various reasons at least 15-20 times, texting when there are over 50 to type/fill, etc. She could not be fired because there was insufficient documentation. Right to work law only works in theory.

You are confusing company policy enforcement by corporate HR with state law. As long as it is not for a discrimatory reason you can be fired for any reason or no reason at all in a right to work state.

It is not hard at all to provide HR with sufficient documentation. Follow the companies progressive disipline policy and document every incident of misconduct. Trust me it is easy to fire someone even a pharmacist.

Every one always brings up suing the company. Yeah right you go ahead and sue the company and see what you get out of it. A good lawyer will cost you $200 plus an hour. This isnt something a lawyer will take on a contingency so you will be a newly unemployed pharmacist footing the bill. Good luck with that.

 

[Got Em]

You are confusing company policy enforcement by corporate HR with state law. As long as it is not for a discrimatory reason you can be fired for any reason or no reason at all in a right to work state.

It is not hard at all to provide HR with sufficient documentation. Follow the companies progressive disipline policy and document every incident of misconduct. Trust me it is easy to fire someone even a pharmacist.

Every one always brings up suing the company. Yeah right you go ahead and sue the company and see what you get out of it. A good lawyer will cost you $200 plus an hour. This isnt something a lawyer will take on a contingency so you will be a newly unemployed pharmacist footing the bill. Good luck with that.

I agree with some of this. Even though state law states that you can get fired for no reason at all, there are 37 states that provide an exception. Even if the handbook has a policy that says you can get fired at will, in corporate places, you still need to provide documentation, like you said per company policy.

I'm not sure what you are arguing with me in regards to your second point. I have stated that you would need sufficient documentation. In standard policy for most companies, you get a verbal warning, then written, then suspension, then termination. Yes, if you follow these steps then you have enough for a firing, but not sure if you can call that "easy"? Have you fired any of your technicians without first giving them a warning or multiple warnings?

Everyone brings up suing the company because it happens. One of my older technicians sued the company and settled for $10,000+. It would have been much more without supporting documents. Many lawyers will take your case without any payment until you win your case. Then they do a 60/40 split or something like that on the settlement. One patient we have on medicaid just sued us because she was robbed in the parking lot. So, I don't understand what you mean by "a newly pharmacist supporting the bill".

 

[pezdispenser]

Nice discussion about the law, but firing or making conditions so bad that people quit are preferred over laying people off, simply to avoid paying unemployment or severance packages $$$. And it's not hard for employers to document some lame reasons to fire pharmacists. I have seen this happen quite a lot recently so getting fired/quit/laid off doesn't make much difference to me.

 

[Rxnupe]

This is only partially true. You and I both work in Texas, which is a right to work state. If it is a small business, you can apply this law a little more freely and there is likely a smaller incentive for lawyers to sue. However, if it is a large corporation, how do you differ being fired for performance issues vs. getting fired "just because" with no reason. You can get sued for "unfair" treatment, "retaliation", and also a variety of other issues. This is the reason why most large corporations, like I mentioned, MUST document why a pharmacist is fired and if there were verbal/written warnings. We had one pharmacist in my district that had been late at least 10 times, called in for various reasons at least 15-20 times, texting when there are over 50 to type/fill, etc. She could not be fired because there was insufficient documentation. Right to work law only works in theory.

You are 100 percent correct- it's just theory- the reason why I know is because I work in Texas as well and I am currently I am an emerging leader and one of my task or projects was to take a challenged or under performing store and ty to "fi" it. One of the stores I have has a Pharmacist that refuses to do what he is required to do and is under performing- he checks voice mail maybe once every 4 hours- constant rudeness to customers and staff- refuses to do waiters-takes several long breaks without noticed- every MD that calls in he instructs the technicians to send it to Voicemail- even if he isn't "busy"- now with this said I asked the Supervisor :Why don't you guys just replace him- after all this is a right to work state"- the Supervisor's exact word is that :"we have to document everything with write-ups- performance evaluations etc. So you are absolutely correct it's just theory- because if you take the above example and if CVS were to tell that person sorry we no longer need you- that Pharmacist can get a lawyer and say he was discriminated against and sue- now if CVS has documentation that they released this person because of poor performance and have the write ups to prove it- than CVS is in a much better place.

 

[Rxnupe]

So I hear from a co worker that some friends that work at cvs now have to try to meet a certain number of immunizations per month, and in their district if u don't get those in you have to not only try giving shots by setting up a clinic day in store on your days off, but you have to canvas the community and set up flu clinics at local churches, etc. I'm sure the DMs official answer would be these are not forced, but "suggested", if u get the drift. NEway, somebody please tell me that 1. This is just a rumor blown out of proportion (though I know that the person telling me about it is probably not lying/making it up) and 2. How can it still continue to get worse in retail. I'm totally grateful to work in hospital, but I can see that if things get this bad in retail it will eventually affect institutional pharmds. I can already see a polarization, as my hospital and others in the area now only look for experienced hospital pharms, and new grads are pretty much not even getting interviews (pgy1/2 of course being exceptions). I can't even fathom what it will be like for new grads in the coming years. I also personally know of over ten retail rphs who have been fired from walmarts, WAG, and CVS for not meeting numbers, etc and have been out of work for periods ranging from six months to nearly two years. I dont see how any of you guys can make it in retail with the high stress of a fast food like atmosphere and endless barrage of metrics to meet.

I actually think you are grossly exaggerating the truth just my 2 cents. Also, since I work for CVS- every store has a quota- even before the quota came out CVS always require Pharmacist to do shots on site and every store is required to have 2 off site clinic- CVS does not force you to come in on your off day with no pay- that's total suggestion- CVS encourages you to seek other ways to get your numbers or to reach your quota.

 

[Dr Wario]

I actually think you are grossly exaggerating the truth just my 2 cents. Also, since I work for CVS- every store has a quota- even before the quota came out CVS always require Pharmacist to do shots on site and every store is required to have 2 off site clinic- CVS does not force you to come in on your off day with no pay- that's total suggestion- CVS encourages you to seek other ways to get your numbers or to reach your quota.

I'd rip my quota to pieces if they would get state insurance to pay for them. You want your narc, fine but you get a flu shot (you can take one when you are done to help with the terrible pain). I'd do 200 shots per day.

 

[Got Em]

You are 100 percent correct- it's just theory- the reason why I know is because I work in Texas as well and I am currently I am an emerging leader and one of my task or projects was to take a challenged or under performing store and ty to "fi" it. One of the stores I have has a Pharmacist that refuses to do what he is required to do and is under performing- he checks voice mail maybe once every 4 hours- constant rudeness to customers and staff- refuses to do waiters-takes several long breaks without noticed- every MD that calls in he instructs the technicians to send it to Voicemail- even if he isn't "busy"- now with this said I asked the Supervisor :Why don't you guys just replace him- after all this is a right to work state"- the Supervisor's exact word is that :"we have to document everything with write-ups- performance evaluations etc. So you are absolutely correct it's just theory- because if you take the above example and if CVS were to tell that person sorry we no longer need you- that Pharmacist can get a lawyer and say he was discriminated against and sue- now if CVS has documentation that they released this person because of poor performance and have the write ups to prove it- than CVS is in a much better place.

Finally there is actually a person that knows what he is talking about. Everybody knows somebody that got fired and of course that person would only tell you the partial story. Who is going to tell you about how they were lazy, were rude to customers, not hitting the KPIs, etc. People don't get fired at big corporations just because "they were not needed". That would be considered laying off and you do have to have a severance package. "Firing" actually looks really bad on a person's resume and this is why there needs to be sufficient documentation for this.

 

[Got Em]

Nice discussion about the law, but firing or making conditions so bad that people quit are preferred over laying people off, simply to avoid paying unemployment or severance packages $$$. And it's not hard for employers to document some lame reasons to fire pharmacists. I have seen this happen quite a lot recently so getting fired/quit/laid off doesn't make much difference to me.

You are mostly right, except on the firing part. Firing is actually not preferred at all since there may be potential retaliation from the fired employee. In making conditions worse than usual, such as sending the pharmacist to float an hour away, more night shifts, longer shifts, less tech help, etc....this tries to get the employee to quit. The worse thing you can do as a company is to fire the employee without sufficient documentation and have that employee sue the company. It doesn't matter what or how bad of a case the employee has, it will cause the company a lot more money than even a severance package. So the preferred method is to get the employee to quit. There really isn't the option of laying off an employee unless it's a company wide decision or a decision based on a region.

 

[pezdispenser]

You are mostly right, except on the firing part. Firing is actually not preferred at all since there may be potential retaliation from the fired employee. In making conditions worse than usual, such as sending the pharmacist to float an hour away, more night shifts, longer shifts, less tech help, etc....this tries to get the employee to quit. The worse thing you can do as a company is to fire the employee without sufficient documentation and have that employee sue the company. It doesn't matter what or how bad of a case the employee has, it will cause the company a lot more money than even a severance package. So the preferred method is to get the employee to quit. There really isn't the option of laying off an employee unless it's a company wide decision or a decision based on a region.

You're probably right. I agree, that is how it usually works. But maybe my cynicism has been cranked all the way up after seeing several of my coworkers get fired because they had poor performance and/or had 'issues', by getting written up for some very lame (sometimes unrelated) reasons.

So with the poor economy needing reductions in force, I agree that employers do try to avoid layoffs and paying unemployment and severance packages (avoid paying... at all cost? 😛), but instead, the firing option is becoming more frequently used. And maybe my state does not have strong workplace laws to protect employees, because only one of the pharmacists I know who got fired decided to sue the company...

 

[MountainPharmD]

Finally there is actually a person that knows what he is talking about. Everybody knows somebody that got fired and of course that person would only tell you the partial story. Who is going to tell you about how they were lazy, were rude to customers, not hitting the KPIs, etc. People don't get fired at big corporations just because "they were not needed". That would be considered laying off and you do have to have a severance package. "Firing" actually looks really bad on a person's resume and this is why there needs to be sufficient documentation for this.

Oh lord if you think Rxnupe knows what he is talking about you are in trouble. Rxnupe's example sounds like a lazy DM who doesnt want to go through the trouble of writing someone up. It is a process and is a pain in the butt. It takes alot of time but is a very simple process. Indentify a violation of company policies. Write said employee up for it. When they do it again write them up again. When it happens a third time tell them this is there last and final warning and any further incidents will result in termination of employment. When it happens again show them the door. There is nothing hard about it. Take the time and follow the companies progressive disipline policy and you are good to go.

What can a terminted employee do if they were terminated for violation of compny policies and or procedures? Nothing!

 

[Got Em]

Oh lord if you think Rxnupe knows what he is talking about you are in trouble. Rxnupe's example sounds like a lazy DM who doesnt want to go through the trouble of writing someone up. It is a process and is a pain in the butt. It takes alot of time but is a very simple process. Indentify a violation of company policies. Write said employee up for it. When they do it again write them up again. When it happens a third time tell them this is there last and final warning and any further incidents will result in termination of employment. When it happens again show them the door. There is nothing hard about it. Take the time and follow the companies progressive disipline policy and you are good to go.

What can a terminted employee do if they were terminated for violation of compny policies and or procedures? Nothing!

You just stated what I already stated many times, except for the "easy" part. I have stated time and time again that there is a process involved. You actually do need to write them and TELL them about it, so it's not like you just pick a fault and fire them for it at once. Whether this is "hard" or "easy" depends on your definition and the person involved.

IMO, this process is difficult because a lot of people will take notice after the warning and "be smart" about their faults. This also has to be the combined effort between pharmacy mangers of different stores if this person is a floater. There may be many problems along the way to say the least. The RxM may just to lazy to write up what happened in detail; their may be a staffing issues where the floater gets no senior techs and other staff gets two, the floater may be left with scripts from the day before, etc. The poster that I commended said something that is actually what I've been told before as well.

What I'm disagreeing with is with people that say you can get fired right away because you are employed at will. There is a process and I don't care to argue about whether the process is easy or hard because it is subjective.

As far as your stance on what a terminated employee can do for "violating company policy", he/she can still sue. Just because YOU think it's a violation doesn't mean the arbitrator or judge will think so, doesn't mean the jury will think so, and it surely doesn't mean his or her lawyer will say so. For example, if an employee was fired for having a lower than 80% verified by promised time, but was able to show discrepancies on technician help, scripts left for him/her specifically vs. other staff, her VBP vs other staff, then this person has a lot to go on. It is not always a "very simple process". Come on now.

 

[PharmaTope]

You personally know OVER TEN pharmacists that have been fired? Care to list the city and area where they were employed? I don't think so buddy. Quit posting to scare off future students. I don't think people understand how hard it is to actually fire somebody in the US who works for a large corporation. Even though you can go on numbers, there has to be verbal warnings with written out notices as well. You can bypass all of that if you did something "really bad", but that should not be the case in most situations. On the other hand, laying off is pretty easy to do, but the company has to pay.

laws state that in Work At Will states, a person can be fired for anything. that includes having brown eyes and it is perfectly legal. it is not that hard to fire people. i have seen 3 pharmacists fired recently. the reason was she wasn't a good fit after all these years. so we let her go. one was fired because they wanted someone younger so they could hopefully see increase in Rx.

 

[pharaday]

one was fired because they wanted someone younger so they could hopefully see increase in Rx.

At Will doesn't mean they can discriminate. If someone was fired for being too old, she could definitely sue them.

 

[PharmaTope]

At Will doesn't mean they can discriminate. If someone was fired for being too old, she could definitely sue them.

prove that. reality is it happens all the time

"oh this new student has a PharmD...."

"oh this younger person had this award, we though it was valuable"

it is very hard to prove that claim and goodluck suing for that. you will have to front most of the lawsuit money. not worth pursuing.👎

 

[pharaday]

prove that. reality is it happens all the time

Prove what? Age discrimination is illegal. Just because it "happens all the time" doesn't make it legal. Employees can sue their employers, and they can win if they present their case properly. My dad and a few of his coworkers won a lawsuit against their former employer many years ago for age discrimination.

Your post stated that "at will" meant employees can be fired for any reason, and then you listed as an example someone who was fired because of her age. I don't disagree that it happens, and that employers do get away with it, but that doesn't make it legal. "At will" does not mean you can fire someone based on their age. Perhaps you just chose a bad example.

Regarding your example, your post makes it sound like it was a well known fact that the employee was fired in attempt to bring in someone younger to boost the numbers. Is that what they told her? If so, she should file an age discrimination claim against them. If not, maybe there was more to the story that others aren't aware of. Or, maybe the employer tried to get away with something, but it still isn't legal, and it does not meet the definition of "at will" employment.

 

[PharmaTope]

Prove what? Age discrimination is illegal. Just because it "happens all the time" doesn't make it legal. Employees can sue their employers, and they can win if they present their case properly. My dad and a few of his coworkers won a lawsuit against their former employer many years ago for age discrimination.

Your post stated that "at will" meant employees can be fired for any reason, and then you listed as an example someone who was fired because of her age. I don't disagree that it happens, and that employers do get away with it, but that doesn't make it legal. "At will" does not mean you can fire someone based on their age. Perhaps you just chose a bad example.

Regarding your example, your post makes it sound like it was a well known fact that the employee was fired in attempt to bring in someone younger to boost the numbers. Is that what they told her? If so, she should file an age discrimination claim against them. If not, maybe there was more to the story that others aren't aware of. Or, maybe the employer tried to get away with something, but it still isn't legal, and it does not meet the definition of "at will" employment.

hey sandra, we are gonna terminate your employment. we want to get someone new in here that revitalize the pharmacy department and increase rx sales.....

new grad BOOM

 

[Got Em]

laws state that in Work At Will states, a person can be fired for anything. that includes having brown eyes and it is perfectly legal. it is not that hard to fire people. i have seen 3 pharmacists fired recently. the reason was she wasn't a good fit after all these years. so we let her go. one was fired because they wanted someone younger so they could hopefully see increase in Rx.

Why don't you re-read what has already been posted in this thread? It seems like you get too trigger happy with your posts, as I have already stated many times with references and examples of how this only works in theory. Mr. SkyIsFalling, can you please stop your exaggeration? Thanks.

 

[Rxnupe]

Oh lord if you think Rxnupe knows what he is talking about you are in trouble. Rxnupe's example sounds like a lazy DM who doesnt want to go through the trouble of writing someone up. It is a process and is a pain in the butt. It takes alot of time but is a very simple process. Indentify a violation of company policies. Write said employee up for it. When they do it again write them up again. When it happens a third time tell them this is there last and final warning and any further incidents will result in termination of employment. When it happens again show them the door. There is nothing hard about it. Take the time and follow the companies progressive disipline policy and you are good to go.

What can a terminted employee do if they were terminated for violation of company policies and or procedures? Nothing!

Mountain if you re-read my point instead of jumping to conclusions you would understand that you just typed exactly what I said needs to happen. The DM simply can't or won't just show up and say we don't need you any more you are fired- they will have some documentation as to :"why they don't need" this person anymore. By the way- last time I checked this individual was on a 60 day probation of where he knows what is expected of him and if does not meet the expectations he will be replaced- no if's and's or but's about it- however you seemed to have worked for at least 5 different companies- I wonder why??? You seem to blame the company each time instead of looking in the mirror

 

[kezguy]

If you, or you know of any Pharmacist(s) that have been fired by CVS in last two years for minor company policy violations (no state statute or criminal violations) and that are over 40yo (EEOC Standard) please contact : [email protected]
Since May 2011, CVS has terminated 6 and soon to be 8 of 14 Pharmacists in 7 stores in South Florida. There may be more. It certainly is a pattern as we are all over 40 with 20 years on the job. The current South Florida Pharmacy DM has been quoted "no pharmacist out of school longer than two years will be hired". I am looking to collect as many Pharmacists from around the nation that have experienced the same scenario. CVS is controlling their budget by terminating older, higher pay/benefit Pharmacists with new applicants at 25% less in wages. Retention for CVS makes no sense as all Pharmacist are basically trained before job entry. Termination is easy. CVS has cretaed a monster of Key Performance Measures with goals that can not be met with the poor level of staffing provided. The Pharmacist is set up for failure and then these KPIs are used as the excuse to terminate. Other reasons are customer complaints, Technicians are being targeted also. Technicains should contact me also.
I am working with a major law form in formulating a class action age discrimination case against CVS. Please reply with your contact information and short story of your termination experience to [email protected]

 

[BenJammin]

This is only partially true. You and I both work in Texas, which is a right to work state. If it is a small business, you can apply this law a little more freely and there is likely a smaller incentive for lawyers to sue. However, if it is a large corporation, how do you differ being fired for performance issues vs. getting fired "just because" with no reason. You can get sued for "unfair" treatment, "retaliation", and also a variety of other issues. This is the reason why most large corporations, like I mentioned, MUST document why a pharmacist is fired and if there were verbal/written warnings. We had one pharmacist in my district that had been late at least 10 times, called in for various reasons at least 15-20 times, texting when there are over 50 to type/fill, etc. She could not be fired because there was insufficient documentation. Right to work law only works in theory.

Correct me if I'm wrong but right-to-work laws have absolutely nothing to do with firing and hirings in general, just concerning hiring and firing when it comes to unions.