Cycle is not going too well. What to do?

[reapplicant2021]

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First cycle 2019-2020

3.8 GPA 510 MCAT (July 2019) Asian
170 hours clinical volunteering with some leadership associated
200 nonclinical
30 hours shadowing

Bad list and applied late
1 II from my state school that interviews everyone above a GPA/MCAT threshold resulted in an R

This cycle

New 517 MCAT (April 2021), 1st quartile Casper. Couldn't do clinical stuff due to COVID. Got hired as a scribe after I submitted my primary application
+130 hours virtual nonclinical volunteering
+100 research
+CNA certification in case scribe job didn't pan out

Applied broadly and complete by September at all schools.
2 II, 1 R (same state school) 1 waitlist that I probably won't get off.

As of right now:
+>200 hours scribing (hopefully a good LOR from at least one of the doctors) should be 700-800 hours total by next June at current rate
+>100 hours retail job (also hopefully a good LOR) should be near 500 by June 2022 at current rate
+70 more virtual nonclinical volunteering
+50 more research, trying to get more but I'm not able to do much with my scribing job
Working on interview skills

Do I need more volunteering? I can resume my virtual volunteering position but I'm a bit worn out already.

Reapply next cycle? Wait 1 year?

 

[Proudfather94]

First cycle 2019-2020

3.8 GPA 510 MCAT (July 2019) Asian
170 hours clinical volunteering with some leadership associated
200 nonclinical
30 hours shadowing

Bad list and applied late
1 II from my state school that interviews everyone above a GPA/MCAT threshold resulted in an R

This cycle

New 517 MCAT (April 2021), 1st quartile Casper. Couldn't do clinical stuff due to COVID. Got hired as a scribe after I submitted my primary application
+130 hours virtual nonclinical volunteering
+100 research
+CNA certification in case scribe job didn't pan out

Applied broadly and complete by September at all schools.
2 II, 1 R (same state school) 1 waitlist that I probably won't get off.

As of right now:
+>200 hours scribing (hopefully a good LOR from at least one of the doctors) should be 700-800 hours total by next June at current rate
+>100 hours retail job (also hopefully a good LOR) should be near 500 by June 2022 at current rate
+70 more virtual nonclinical volunteering
+50 more research, trying to get more but I'm not able to do much with my scribing job
Working on interview skills

Do I need more volunteering? I can resume my virtual volunteering position but I'm a bit worn out already.

Reapply next cycle? Wait 1 year?

The volunteering looks good if you have 370 hours. Why are you doing retail and being a scribe? If you can be a scribe you should just get more hours doing that. Honestly your stats look like you should be getting more IIs than you are. I'm thinking it may have more to do with your school list or maybe your primary and secondary essays. Maybe when you reapply have people on here take a look at your essays to make sure they look good.

Btw I personally would not get a LOR from someone in retail. They won't have the judgment to see if you would make a great doctor. Profs, Doctors, and people in leadership positions make good LORs. You seem to be spreading yourself thin and throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. You may burn out and do poorly on your application if you keep that up.

 

[Med Ed]

First cycle 2019-2020

3.8 GPA 510 MCAT (July 2019) Asian
170 hours clinical volunteering with some leadership associated
200 nonclinical
30 hours shadowing

Bad list and applied late
1 II from my state school that interviews everyone above a GPA/MCAT threshold resulted in an R

This cycle

New 517 MCAT (April 2021), 1st quartile Casper. Couldn't do clinical stuff due to COVID. Got hired as a scribe after I submitted my primary application
+130 hours virtual nonclinical volunteering
+100 research
+CNA certification in case scribe job didn't pan out

Applied broadly and complete by September at all schools.
2 II, 1 R (same state school) 1 waitlist that I probably won't get off.

As of right now:
+>200 hours scribing (hopefully a good LOR from at least one of the doctors) should be 700-800 hours total by next June at current rate
+>100 hours retail job (also hopefully a good LOR) should be near 500 by June 2022 at current rate
+70 more virtual nonclinical volunteering
+50 more research, trying to get more but I'm not able to do much with my scribing job
Working on interview skills

Do I need more volunteering? I can resume my virtual volunteering position but I'm a bit worn out already.

Reapply next cycle? Wait 1 year?

Why do you want to be a doctor?

 

[reapplicant2021]

The volunteering looks good if you have 370 hours. Why are you doing retail and being a scribe? If you can be a scribe you should just get more hours doing that. Honestly your stats look like you should be getting more IIs than you are. I'm thinking it may have more to do with your school list or maybe your primary and secondary essays. Maybe when you reapply have people on here take a look at your essays to make sure they look good.

Btw I personally would not get a LOR from someone in retail. They won't have the judgment to see if you would make a great doctor. Profs, Doctors, and people in leadership positions make good LORs. You seem to be spreading yourself thin and throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. You may burn out and do poorly on your application if you keep that up.

Retail is only on the weekends. With the practice I’m scribing with adding more shifts would likely mean driving to a clinical site that’s 1 hour away as opposed to 10/30 minutes each to the other two clinical sites. That’s not something I want to add to a 9-10 hour work day. It also pays $15/hr and I get $10.50/hr for scribing.

Why do you want to be a doctor?

Mixture of family influences, mainly my grandmother who was a nurse and health problems both myself and family endured that got me initially interested. Why?

 

[Kmani6]

With a 3.8/517 you have good stats, but 170 clinical, 330 nonclinical, 100 research, and 30 shadowing hours are not strong EC's relatively. I think that is what is currently holding you back.

However, it looks like you are making great use of this year and have strengthened your ECs considerably. With 870-970 clinical, 400 nonclinical, 150 research, 30 shadowing and 100 retail hours you should have a much better shot at an A, given you re-apply broadly.

If I was you, I would do the following:

1) continue those activities and hit the numbers you have listed.
2) figure out what you plan to do during your gap year so you can project even more hours (maybe research tech, a 1-year assignment at city year, or the NIH IRTA program if you really want a strong boost)
3) get an additional 20 hours shadowing so it looks like your keeping up with that (50 overall is a good number)
4) begin re-writing your entire W/A and PS now. I would get many eyes from users on Reddit or SDN on your writing and really make sure you're telling stories that are impactful and writing meaningfully.
5) ask for help on SDN for your next school list that is both broad and includes a few select DO programs.

Good luck!

 

[reapplicant2021]

With a 3.8/517 you have good stats, but 170 clinical, 330 nonclinical, 100 research, and 30 shadowing hours are not strong EC's relatively. I think that is what is currently holding you back.

However, it looks like you are making great use of this year and have strengthened your ECs considerably. With 870-970 clinical, 400 nonclinical, 150 research, 30 shadowing and 100 retail hours you should have a much better shot at an A, given you re-apply broadly.

If I was you, I would do the following:

1) continue those activities and hit the numbers you have listed.
2) figure out what you plan to do during your gap year so you can project even more hours (maybe research tech, a 1-year assignment at city year, or the NIH IRTA program if you really want a strong boost)
3) get an additional 20 hours shadowing so it looks like your keeping up with that (50 overall is a good number)
4) begin re-writing your entire W/A and PS now. I would get many eyes from users on Reddit or SDN on your writing and really make sure you're telling stories that are impactful and writing meaningfully.
5) ask for help on SDN for your next school list that is both broad and includes a few select DO programs.

Good luck!

Is shadowing obtainable currently? It was a pain trying to get the 30 hours that I have and that was pre-COVID. Retail job should be near 500 hours and research could be 200-300 hours.

 

[Goro]

Is shadowing obtainable currently? It was a pain trying to get the 30 hours that I have and that was pre-COVID. Retail job should be near 500 hours and research could be 200-300 hours.

Scribing will fulfill shadowing and patient contact experience

 

[Goro]

Also, work on interview skills and rewrite all essays. Have multiple eyeballs vet them.

What was your school list?

 

[candbgirl]

Is shadowing obtainable currently? It was a pain trying to get the 30 hours that I have and that was pre-COVID. Retail job should be near 500 hours and research could be 200-300 hours.

It was but now with the new variant it seems things have tightened up, almost overnight. (At least in hospitals.). Maybe you could get some hours at a private practice office or a clinic. Research isn’t all that important. So if you have to give something up that could be it. You really need some nonclinical volunteering that isn’t virtual. What exactly is virtual nonclinical volunteering that you do?

I agree with @Proudfather94 about the LORs. You don’t need a letter from your boss at the retail store at all. You don’t really need one from a doctor unless you are applying to DO schools and a very few MD schools that request one.

You have already applied twice. Next cycle would be your third cycle. I’ve heard that some schools won’t consider a third application( not sure if this is true but you need to check it out). Have you talked to ADCOMS at schools you were rejected at? Some schools provide this opportunity. Doing this might help you figure out what’s happening with your application.

Have you thought about using that CNA certificate and getting a job in a hospital? It might pay more money and it will give you a different view of patient care. Then you could quit the other two jobs. And maybe get some shadowing opportunities in the hospital on your off days.

Are you sure about the quality of your LORs? It seems so strange that you have been rejected at your state school twice.

 

[reapplicant2021]

Also, work on interview skills and rewrite all essays. Have multiple eyeballs vet them.

What was your school list?

I had a total of about 40 schools, 10 of which were a bit too optimistic but the rest were mostly ranked 30 and below generally and take a size-able amount of OOS applicants.

It was but now with the new variant it seems things have tightened up, almost overnight. (At least in hospitals.). Maybe you could get some hours at a private practice office or a clinic. Research isn’t all that important. So if you have to give something up that could be it. You really need some nonclinical volunteering that isn’t virtual. What exactly is virtual nonclinical volunteering that you do?

I agree with @Proudfather94 about the LORs. You don’t need a letter from your boss at the retail store at all. You don’t really need one from a doctor unless you are applying to DO schools and a very few MD schools that request one.

You have already applied twice. Next cycle would be your third cycle. I’ve heard that some schools won’t consider a third application( not sure if this is true but you need to check it out). Have you talked to ADCOMS at schools you were rejected at? Some schools provide this opportunity. Doing this might help you figure out what’s happening with your application.

Have you thought about using that CNA certificate and getting a job in a hospital? It might pay more money and it will give you a different view of patient care. Then you could quit the other two jobs. And maybe get some shadowing opportunities in the hospital on your off days.

Are you sure about the quality of your LORs? It seems so strange that you have been rejected at your state school twice.

I have a phone conference with my state school on Monday.

I suspect my LORs probably aren’t the greatest which is why I’m planning to ask for my boss and doctors for LORs to replace 2 of them.

I also told I’d work until at least June/July for both jobs so I don’t want to be that guy that quits early.

 

[Med Ed]

Mixture of family influences, mainly my grandmother who was a nurse and health problems both myself and family endured that got me initially interested. Why?

Without an underlying narrative most applications read like extended exercises in box-checking.

 

[allseasons]

I had a total of about 40 schools, 10 of which were a bit too optimistic but the rest were mostly ranked 30 and below generally and take a size-able amount of OOS applicants.



I have a phone conference with my state school on Monday.

I suspect my LORs probably aren’t the greatest which is why I’m planning to ask for my boss and doctors for LORs to replace 2 of them.

I also told I’d work until at least June/July for both jobs so I don’t want to be that guy that quits early.

My initial thought was LoRs as well. your ECs aren't great, but they're certainly not bad, and with those stats you should probably receive a few more IIs unless you have a very unbalanced MCAT (<126 or maybe <125 in some section).

 

[Bwesternn]

I'm also a reapplicant with similar stats (pretty much identical MCATS - except it took me 3 attempts to get there). In this cycle, I've had 5 II's so far, 1 upcoming II, and an MD acceptance. Our EC's are similar aside from clinical, where I have around 7000 clinical hours as an MA.

While I know that my clinical hours helped (although I had around 4500 my first cycle that resulted in 0 II's), I truly believe that it was my essays and LOR's that helped me get over the hump. I rewrote everything and said the hell with my pride, asking around 30 people to look over and pick apart my essays. The physicians and admins I worked with over those thousands of hours also wrote strong letters, so while I am n=1, the above advice seems to have worked. Best of luck

 

[arnim]

I'm also a reapplicant with similar stats (pretty much identical MCATS - except it took me 3 attempts to get there). In this cycle, I've had 5 II's so far, 1 upcoming II, and an MD acceptance. Our EC's are similar aside from clinical, where I have around 7000 clinical hours as an MA.

While I know that my clinical hours helped (although I had around 4500 my first cycle that resulted in 0 II's), I truly believe that it was my essays and LOR's that helped me get over the hump. I rewrote everything and said the hell with my pride, asking around 30 people to look over and pick apart my essays. The physicians and admins I worked with over those thousands of hours also wrote strong letters, so while I am n=1, the above advice seems to have worked. Best of luck

I’m going to echo this and agree, I believe my IIs this cycle can be contributed significantly due to an extremely well (re)written PS, with a strong through line and narrative that was echoed throughout my secondaries and activities

 

[LindaAccepted]

First cycle 2019-2020

3.8 GPA 510 MCAT (July 2019) Asian
170 hours clinical volunteering with some leadership associated
200 nonclinical
30 hours shadowing

Bad list and applied late
1 II from my state school that interviews everyone above a GPA/MCAT threshold resulted in an R

This cycle

New 517 MCAT (April 2021), 1st quartile Casper. Couldn't do clinical stuff due to COVID. Got hired as a scribe after I submitted my primary application
+130 hours virtual nonclinical volunteering
+100 research
+CNA certification in case scribe job didn't pan out

Applied broadly and complete by September at all schools.
2 II, 1 R (same state school) 1 waitlist that I probably won't get off.

As of right now:
+>200 hours scribing (hopefully a good LOR from at least one of the doctors) should be 700-800 hours total by next June at current rate
+>100 hours retail job (also hopefully a good LOR) should be near 500 by June 2022 at current rate
+70 more virtual nonclinical volunteering
+50 more research, trying to get more but I'm not able to do much with my scribing job
Working on interview skills

Do I need more volunteering? I can resume my virtual volunteering position but I'm a bit worn out already.

Reapply next cycle? Wait 1 year?

I'm wondering about the following:

1) How well have you presented your qualifications?
2) How well did you interview?
3) You said you applied broadly, but did you apply to programs where your stats are above average? Did you show fit with the individual schools you are applying too?

A couple of tips:

1) Have someone knowledgeable review your essays.
2) Don't merely recycle last year's essays and experiences.

Personally, I wouldn't wait another year to apply, but I do recommend you apply to programs that you have not applied to previously in addition to some where you have applied previously.

 

[reapplicant2021]

I'm wondering about the following:

1) How well have you presented your qualifications?
2) How well did you interview?
3) You said you applied broadly, but did you apply to programs where your stats are above average? Did you show fit with the individual schools you are applying too?

A couple of tips:

1) Have someone knowledgeable review your essays.
2) Don't merely recycle last year's essays and experiences.

Personally, I wouldn't wait another year to apply, but I do recommend you apply to programs that you have not applied to previously in addition to some where you have applied previously.

I asked quite a handful of people on SDN and r/premed to look at my essays. I’d say I’m an okay interviewer in general. I don't think my interviews were amazing but also not bad enough to land me an R and low-ranked WL on its own. It's definitely something I'm trying to improve though.

Here's the list of schools where my MCAT is above the median by 2 or more:

Albany (R)
Creighton
EVMS
Tufts
UCF (II, on waitlist)
Vermont
Thomas Jefferson
Wake Forest
George Washington (hold)
Georgetown (R)
Oakland Beaumont
Saint Louis
Indiana (R)
Penn State
Tufts
Tulane (hold)
Kansas (II, R)
NYMC (hold)

The list of schools I haven’t applied to is getting thin they're mostly T30 and above. Not sure if my research experience is enough for them?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

My best advice would be to get a job that you would be happy (or at least somewhat content) doing long term if medical school never works out. I’m not saying that it won’t work out, but having a back up plan really relieves a lot of application-induced anxiety. Apply while working.

How would you approach dental applications? Ask letter writes to find and replace “medical” with “dental?” Just curious.

Edit: just realized it was another thread talking about dental as an alternative.

 

[Bwesternn]

Also keep in mind that sometimes you can do everything right and not yield the results you had hoped for. Even with your school list, I still think getting more hands-on clinical experience will help you write a stronger “Why medicine” PS. Clinical experience will also help with secondary essays and matching your goals to schools’ missions, while also getting you some MD LOR’s.

Yes this application process is a crapshoot, but right now your EC’s look like you’re checking boxes. You’re clearly capable, so don’t give up

 

[reapplicant2021]

Also keep in mind that sometimes you can do everything right and not yield the results you had hoped for. Even with your school list, I still think getting more hands-on clinical experience will help you write a stronger “Why medicine” PS. Clinical experience will also help with secondary essays and matching your goals to schools’ missions, while also getting you some MD LOR’s.

Yes this application process is a crapshoot, but right now your EC’s look like you’re checking boxes. You’re clearly capable, so don’t give up

More hands-on as in continue scribing? Can’t say I want to become a CNA to be completely honest.

 

[Bwesternn]

More hands-on as in continue scribing? Can’t say I want to become a CNA to be completely honest.

Yes. Hands-on clinical experience, such as scribing/shadowing/volunteering that helps frame you as an individual with a unique drive and story. As others have said, it's not your stats that are holding you back. In my case, because of the experiences I had, I wrote about a story/experience for nearly every essay I wrote this cycle. It made the process much more bearable because I was just writing about what I did and how they shaped me into who I am and will be.

 

[LindaAccepted]

I asked quite a handful of people on SDN and r/premed to look at my essays. I’d say I’m an okay interviewer in general. I don't think my interviews were amazing but also not bad enough to land me an R and low-ranked WL on its own. It's definitely something I'm trying to improve though.

Here's the list of schools where my MCAT is above the median by 2 or more:

Albany (R)
Creighton
EVMS
Tufts
UCF (II, on waitlist)
Vermont
Thomas Jefferson
Wake Forest
George Washington (hold)
Georgetown (R)
Oakland Beaumont
Saint Louis
Indiana (R)
Penn State
Tufts
Tulane (hold)
Kansas (II, R)
NYMC (hold)

The list of schools I haven’t applied to is getting thin they're mostly T30 and above. Not sure if my research experience is enough for them?

Hopefully you'll still hear good news from some of these programs, but obviously you can't count on it. There are other programs that you haven't applied to that have lower median MCATs, but obviously The MCAT score is not the only factor to consider when choosing where to apply.


Have you updated the programs that accept updates?

 

[reapplicant2021]

Hopefully you'll still hear good news from some of these programs, but obviously you can't count on it. There are other programs that you haven't applied to that have lower median MCATs, but obviously The MCAT score is not the only factor to consider when choosing where to apply.


Have you updated the programs that accept updates?

My first cycle I also applied to Wright State, TCU, Wayne State, Drexel, VCU, Rosalind Franklin, Miami and Nova Southeastern. This cycle I left them out and opted for more schools I haven’t applied to.

I’ve updated a couple and working on the rest.

 

[Faha]

Where is your state of residence ?

 

[reapplicant2021]

Where is your state of residence ?

Kansas

 

[Faha]

If you need to reapply I suggest a broader school list with a focus on school where you have a realistic chance for an interview:
I suggest these schools:
Kansas
TCU-UNT
Tulane
NOVA MD
Miami
USF Morsani
UCF
Florida Atlantic
Florida International
Wake Forest
Eastern Virginia
Virginia Commonwealth
George Washington
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Penn State
Seton Hall
New York Medical College
Albany
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
Rochester
Cincinnati
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Also apply to several DO schools and include DMU-COM, KCU-COM and ATSU-KCOM.

 

[reapplicant2021]

If you need to reapply I suggest a broader school list with a focus on school where you have a realistic chance for an interview:
I suggest these schools:
Kansas
TCU-UNT
Tulane
NOVA MD
Miami
USF Morsani
UCF
Florida Atlantic
Florida International
Wake Forest
Eastern Virginia
Virginia Commonwealth
George Washington
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Penn State
Seton Hall
New York Medical College
Albany
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
Rochester
Cincinnati
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Also apply to several DO schools and include DMU-COM, KCU-COM and ATSU-KCOM.

If I used AP credit for physics/English would there be a way to get past Hofstra’s coursework requirements?

 

[Faha]

If I used AP credit for physics/English would there be a way to get past Hofstra’s coursework requirements?

You will need to call them and ask.