D.O./PhD?

[Arijos0222]

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I don't hear much talk about DO/Ph.D's... There isn't even a thread pertaining to this.

What is the GPA for the program? What is the MCAT? How does it differ from the MD/Ph.D programs besides the D.O. degree?

MD/PhD programs need a 35+ on the MCAT and a 3.8 GPA... Is the acceptance rate lower for DO/Ph.D programs?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

There aren't many really well established DO/PHDs nor do many DO schools aim to produce researchers. That being said the DO/PhDs at schools like MSU are probably averaging 3.5+/ 30+.

 

[Cuongoff]

Piggybacking off of your post, does anyone know of any DO residencies that also let you get your PhD during residency (like some MD residencies for neurosurgery lets the residents get their PhD during the 5th and 6th years)?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I don't think any residencies for even NS let you get a PhD.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I don't think any residencies for even NS let you get a PhD.

Wayne State did at one point.

I looked into DO/PhD programs because I was interested too, but I was disappointed. I didn't look into all of them. OSU-COM would pay your PhD but not DO. TCOM would do the same, but at least you get in-state tuition. I haven't looked into MSUCOM or the others, but my understanding is that 3.5/30+ is about their average. In fact, MSU might be the hardest to get into as it is an MSTP.

 

[Arijos0222]

How prevalent are the D.O. Research fellowships?

 

[cliquesh]

How prevalent are the D.O. Research fellowships?

Scant. If you want to do research, you are going to have to rely on allopathic institutions.

MD/PhDs are free, but DO/PhDs will still cost you lots of money. It's really not worth it unless you have very specific goals. You do not need a PHD to do significant research in the medical world. My residency program's assistant program director, for instance, has over 200 publications. He only has a MD, no PhD.

When you apply for residency, most specialties have research heavy residency positions. These residences are usually 1 to 2 years longer.

 

[Arijos0222]

Scant. If you want to do research, you are going to have to rely on allopathic institutions.

MD/PhDs are free, but DO/PhDs will still cost you lots of money. It's really not worth it unless you have very specific goals. You do not need a PHD to do significant research in the medical world. My residency program's assistant program director, for instance, has over 200 publications. He only has a MD, no PhD.

When you apply for residency, most specialties have research heavy residency positions. These residences are usually 1 to 2 years longer.

So what exactly is the point of getting the Ph.D? How do you have an advantage? (Besides being debtless )

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

So what exactly is the point of getting the Ph.D? How do you have an advantage? (Besides being debtless )

If you want to make a career purely in medical related research and want to spend your entire life doing that then it makes the difference. Otherwise it's wasted time.

That being said seeing as the majority of MD/PhDs never touch research again in their lives, it probably for the majority of people is a waste of time.

 

[Arijos0222]

If you want to make a career purely in medical related research and want to spend your entire life doing that then it makes the difference. Otherwise it's wasted time.

That being said seeing as the majority of MD/PhDs never touch research again in their lives, it probably for the majority of people is a waste of time.

Can't an MD/PhD balance between research and clinical work more evenly?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Can't an MD/PhD balance between research and clinical work more evenly?

Depends on how content you are having a hand for a significant other. But seriously, work in a research lab where people only do research and you'll find that the PI & graduate students spend over 60 hours a week either directly working or indirectly planning research. Now include some clinical work and you'll need to be an kryptonian.

This not to also mention that research loses its appeal overtime. I mean at least for me, analyzing things through a reductionist lens because you're trying to prove something is unappealing.

 

[Nymphicus]

If you want to make a career purely in medical related research and want to spend your entire life doing that then it makes the difference. Otherwise it's wasted time.

That being said seeing as the majority of MD/PhDs never touch research again in their lives, it probably for the majority of people is a waste of time.

Source?

 

[TriagePreMed]

So what exactly is the point of getting the Ph.D? How do you have an advantage? (Besides being debtless )

The advantage is if you want to be a basic researcher with a lab. For that, you need a history of publications and grants, which is difficult to obtain without the PhD. If you want to be in clinical research, that's more plausible with just the MD/DO, yet you'd still be best served doing a research fellowship if that's your goal.

 

[chiddler]

If you want to make a career purely in medical related research and want to spend your entire life doing that then it makes the difference. Otherwise it's wasted time.

That being said seeing as the majority of MD/PhDs never touch research again in their lives, it probably for the majority of people is a waste of time.

PI of my lab was md/phd. Worked clinic two days a week besides his research. Also taught residents at the hospital.

 

[K31]

DO/PhD is something I don't much see the point of. Nothing against DO schools--I'd say the same thing about non-MSTP MD/PhD in the majority of cases.

The fact is name matters a lot more for the PhD than for med school. More your advisor, but also your school and your grad department. Most DO schools don't have that. MSU-COM may be the sole exception (they aren't MSTP though).

As regards most MD/PhDs not doing research after graduation, I'd agree with you if that was qualified as "lab-based research". According to the statistics from my program, 70+% of grads end up in academia. A majority do have a significant research component to their careers, but my impression is a lot of those are doing clinical research. Note--this is a MSTP--middle of the road in reputation as those programs go, but a well-respected name in research.

My suggestion to a DO trying to break into research would be to get into the best ACGME residency possible, get in with some research faculty there, then apply to research-intensive fellowships. Plenty of MDs do this track too, and are quite successful.

 

[EnergyDrink]

Scant. If you want to do research, you are going to have to rely on allopathic institutions.

MD/PhDs are free, but DO/PhDs will still cost you lots of money. It's really not worth it unless you have very specific goals. You do not need a PHD to do significant research in the medical world. My residency program's assistant program director, for instance, has over 200 publications. He only has a MD, no PhD.

When you apply for residency, most specialties have research heavy residency positions. These residences are usually 1 to 2 years longer.

But you do need significant research experience to do significant research. You don't need it, but you do need the research experience, otherwise you're kind of screwed. There are ways to get research experience as a physician, but having the Ph.D. shows that you dedicated a significant portion of time to research.

I considered doing a joint program too, but I decided against it since:
1) They are mostly unfunded and completed at two differed schools
2) The funding environment for laboratories is horrendous right now
3) I already have a research M.S.