D.O.s advertising as M.D.'s??

Started by Dre1207
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
That's about as deserving of a dollar as is Saddam worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize. I am still waiting for anyone to show me some proof. Any proof...please!! My guess is you cannot. And no, a DO should not advertise themselves as an MD, probably because it is AGAINST THE LAW and they could LOSE THEIR MEDICAL LICENSE. That is why!!
 
Originally posted by PACtoDOC
I am still waiting for anyone to show me some proof. Any proof...please!! My guess is you cannot. And no, a DO should not advertise themselves as a DO, probably because it is AGAINST THE LAW and they could LOSE THEIR MEDICAL LICENSE. That is why!!

gee, pm me your address and i'll SHIP you the FRIGGIN BILLBOARD. not to mention i'm not BLIND, nor am i LYING. +pissed+
 
You don't need to PM me, just post it or the link here where everyone can see. My guess is you are mistaken, or maybe your friend's Dad was an MD. Nobody's calling you a liar, but be ready to back up subjective data. 😀
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
You guys need to calm down! I seriously doubt there are hordes of DOs purposely advertising themselves as MDs. There's just no need to do it. EVERY SINGLE DO I KNOW has many more patients than they know what to do with! The only real problem is a misunderstanding by advertisers and administrators. Many of them honestly believe....DO or MD...what does it matter? I've personally had problems with my own administrators. It took me over a year and FOUR name badges to get it right...they kept putting the title MD after my name. Finally, I had to go to the supervisors' supervisor and politely say, "listen, I don't want to be a nazi about this, but I am a DO and would like a badge that says that". They looked at me like I was a nazi and said, "fine, we'll redo it AGAIN!". :wow:


PainDr D.O., M.P.H. (pgy-3)
 
For clarification on this issue, at least in the state of CA, please refer to the california osteopathic medical board website. the rule regarding this issue can be found under the regulations section(ccr 1685) additionally, if you really don't have a life(apparently i don't), you can look look under the disciplinary action report where you will find a physician who is being sanctioned by the medical board for violation of this regulation(1685: misrepresentation of degree earned).
 
Dear Friends,

Thanks for all the great, and, shall i say, interesting responses on this thread. I should have known it would turn into another D.O./M.D. war.

But, with this being said..I think these heated threads are great ways for us to learn about each other and how some people are utterly passionate about being a D.O. student/physician. Frankly, I am very proud to have such passionate pro-D.O.s as colleagues, even if they get a little off their rocker sometimes. Thats one of the coolest things about being a part of a minority profession. We made the choice to be different, and are DARN proud of it!!!

GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE!

Dr. Dre😍 :clap:
 
Well then show us some of these "phonebook misrepresentations" MCATAZ! You're still just running your mouth.
 
Have you considered law school mcataz? Seems like you have a lot of time to argue about things that are relatively unimportant (you are gonna take the bait on that one, I just know you are--go on!!) and you like to do research and you clearly have a superior standard of ethics compared to the rest of us. You may have missed your calling. If you haven't matriculated yet, you really might consider taking the LSAT and blowing off this whole medical school thing...
 
MCATAZ,

You still haven't offered one strand of evidence of a DO masquerading as an MD. I'll even up the antie. I'll give you ten US dollars for every DO you can find masquerading as an MD, with only minimal evidence required on your part. Don't forget that there are a considerable number of physicians who are DO/MD because they trained in a foreign country before coming to the US. They may be licensed to practice as a DO but they can use both titles legally. And the California issue years backed licensed hundreds of DO's as MD's, so these guys could still be around as well in other states by now. But show me something constructive instead of being a lame mouth-breathing troll. My guess is you will come up with some "boomerang response" that attempts to take the heat off the challenge I am making to you and put it back on me. I am not even going to respond to you though unless you start laying down some fact. Good luck, cause you're gonna need it.
 
Originally posted by PACtoDOC
MCATAZ,

You still haven't offered one strand of evidence of a DO masquerading as an MD. I'll even up the antie. I'll give you ten US dollars for every DO you can find masquerading as an MD, with only minimal evidence required on your part. Don't forget that there are a considerable number of physicians who are DO/MD because they trained in a foreign country before coming to the US. They may be licensed to practice as a DO but they can use both titles legally. And the California issue years backed licensed hundreds of DO's as MD's, so these guys could still be around as well in other states by now. But show me something constructive instead of being a lame mouth-breathing troll. My guess is you will come up with some "boomerang response" that attempts to take the heat off the challenge I am making to you and put it back on me. I am not even going to respond to you though unless you start laying down some fact. Good luck, cause you're gonna need it.

Get a grip man. Why do you keep ignoring his and everyone else's points. Didn't you read the starting message of this thread? Did the author of that just make this up? What about the other threads on here that mentioned evidence. Why don't you have the balls to address those. I'm guessing you can't. You lost this argument a long time ago. I wasn't even involved with your debate and you just sound like someone who doesn't know what he is talking about. I'm actually embarrassed for you.
 
Originally posted by sophiejane
Have you considered law school mcataz? Seems like you have a lot of time to argue about things that are relatively unimportant (you are gonna take the bait on that one, I just know you are--go on!!) and you like to do research and you clearly have a superior standard of ethics compared to the rest of us. You may have missed your calling. If you haven't matriculated yet, you really might consider taking the LSAT and blowing off this whole medical school thing...

And this is coming from the person who was crying about getting her feelings hurt from some big bad attending. Who the heck are you to start advising someone to pursue other careers. Perhaps you should go into primary school teaching since you get your feelings hurt so easily. And what was hilarious is how defensive you got when we called you on your little hissy fit. Seriously, you should consider leaving medicine because you will have big fat target on your forehead in residency. And I doubt there is enough space on here for you to vent.
 
Is that ten dollar offer open to all? i know of two in my local yellow pages, and i could really use the twenty bucks. sort of a problem though, hmm..be a snitch or make twenty bucks..to hell with em, i need the money.
 
indecorous? is that one them big md school terms? impressive for a cowboy.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
I never said that misrepresentation in the phonebook was okay. I said I beg you to proove that this occurred based on the physician's wishes. My guess is you should actually call the physician's office and ask why they are listed as an MD in the phonebook. My guess is you will find out that they never requested this and it is a mistake. I know firsthand about this because I used to be in a practice with a group of MD's and DO's. Routinely, our add in the local paper would transform to being all MD's and PA's when I personally was the slave who had to create the add and purchase it. As the person who checked all the physician's mail daily, I bet we got 10% addressed to XXXXXX, MD instead of DO. Be it a consult letter, and insurance contract, or whatever. The errors always came from the other end, not on our end. Just so you can see what I mean, do a yahoo search in an area or zipcode where you know there are a bunch of DO's. Many times they are ALL listed as MD's, just because of the way the software lumps them. But I am still waiting to have someone proove to me that someone who is a DO is masquerading as an MD. The DO's who get labelled as MD's in the phonebook aren't concerned as my docs weren't because they have the original invoice showing what they ordered and how much they paid for it. If the phonebook idiots mess it up after that it is not their fault. Still waiting though.... waiting....all I keep hearing is second-hand rhetoric. waiting.....
 
Originally posted by PACtoDOC
I'll give you ten US dollars for every DO you can find masquerading as an MD, with only minimal evidence required on your part. Don't forget that there are a considerable number of physicians who are DO/MD because they trained in a foreign country before coming to the US. They may be licensed to practice as a DO but they can use both titles legally. And the California issue years backed licensed hundreds of DO's as MD's, so these guys could still be around as well in other states by now. But show me something constructive instead of being a lame mouth-breathing troll. My guess is you will come up with some "boomerang response" that attempts to take the heat off the challenge I am making to you and put it back on me. I am not even going to respond to you though unless you start laying down some fact. Good luck, cause you're gonna need it.
Dear Osteopath,
I have found your offer too good to resist. I accept. You will receive from me, via PM, a list of 100 California osteopaths who have been disciplined (and in some cases publicly reprimanded) in the past 5 years for advertising with the suffix "M.D." At the same time you will also receive instructions on how to tender payment by wire transfer of the funds.

Please note: the following discussion relates to California. Similar statutes may be found in other states.

As to the use of the suffix "M.D." being illegal, one needs to look no further than the California Business and Professions Code. A number of sections are relevant. E.g.:
2274. The use by any licensee of any certificate, of any letter, letters, word, words, term, or terms either as a prefix, affix, or suffix indicating that he or she is entitled to engage in a medical practice for which he or she is not licensed constitutes unprofessional conduct.

Regarding the use of both suffixes (D.O. and M.D.) by the California converts of 1962, this is also illegal, as set out below:
2450. There is a Board of Osteopathic Examiners of the State of California, established by the Osteopathic Act, which shall be known as the Osteopathic Medical Board of California which enforces this chapter relating to persons holding or applying for physician's and surgeon's certificates issued by the Osteopathic Medical Board of California under the Osteopathic Act.
Persons who elect to practice using the term of suffix "M.D.," as provided in Section 2275, shall not be subject to this article, and the Medical Board of California shall enforce the provisions of this
chapter relating to persons who made the election.
2275. Any person who held a physician's and surgeon's certificate under the jurisdiction of the Osteopathic Medical Board of California and a degree of doctor of medicine issued by a medical school located in the state at any time prior to September 30, 1962, and approved by either the Osteopathic Medical Board of California or the Medical Board of California at the time such degree was issued, who applied in writing to the Medical Board of California for permission to utilize his or her degree of doctor of medicine, shall be authorized to use the term or suffix "M.D." and the use shall not constitute unprofessional conduct, so long as the person advised both boards, in writing, that he or she has elected to use the term or suffix "M.D." and further has elected not to use the term or suffix "D.O." In the event of such election, the use of the term or suffix "D.O." constitutes unprofessional conduct within the meaning of this chapter.

Legal precedent on this issue may be found at least as far back as 1956. Probably further. The following appellate opinion is a good read, but I've had to redact a fair amount of it because of the limit on message length. If you want a full copy PM me.
ANGELUS A. ALLEGRETTI, Appellant, v. THE BOARD OF OSTEOPATHIC EXAMINERS OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA et al., Respondents
Civ. No. 21493
Court of Appeal of California, Second Appellate District, Division Three
145 Cal. App. 2d 435; 302 P.2d 694; 1956 Cal. App. LEXIS 1357
October 25, 1956

PROCEDURAL POSTURE: Appellant sought review by a writ of mandamus of the judgment of the Superior Court of Los Angeles County (California), which denied the writ of mandate annulling the action of respondent Board of Osteopathic Examiners of the State of California adjudging appellant guilty of violations of certain sections of the Business and Professions Code, suspending his license, and placing him on probation.

OVERVIEW: In the final hearing before the board, appellant was found guilty of the improper listing of his name as an "M.D." in the telephone directories in violations of Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code ? 2396. Appellant filed a petition for a writ of mandate, seeking to set aside and vacate the order of suspension after his petition for reconsideration was denied by the board. The trial court concluded that appellant was guilty of "a technical violation" of using "M.D.," and that appellant had been negligent in not verifying and learning what directory advertising he had been billed. On appeal, the court reversed the judgment denying the writ. The court found that the final order of the trial court was deemed to be the final judgment. The court held that it was beyond question that the members of the board found that appellant's conduct was tainted with bad faith and that he was not merely careless. The court reasoned that whether appellant had acted innocently or with ulterior motives was an issue that could only be determined from the evidence adduced upon a retrial and it was the sole question for decision.

OPINION: _We have for consideration an appeal of Angelus A. Allegretti from a judgment denying a writ of mandate annulling the action of The Board of Osteopathic Examiners of the State of California adjudging appellant guilty of violations of certain sections of the Business and Professions Code and suspending his license for the period of one year, also, suspending execution of said order for all but 60 days of said one-year period and placing him on probation for a period of two years upon certain specified conditions.
...

In the course of the proceedings before the board and the court there was a failure to substantiate any of the charges except the first one which related to the improper listing of petitioner's name in the 1952 and 1953 directories. The other charges were dismissed. In the final hearing before the board petitioner was found guilty of the improper listing of his name as an "M.D." in the Los Angeles telephone directories in violations of section 2396 of the Business and Professions Code, n1 and the charge of failing to register his certificate with the county clerk (? 2340) was disregarded, in accordance with findings the court had made in ordering a reconsideration by the board.

The only relevant conclusion of law was the following:

"1. That Petitioner was negligent in not verifying and learning what directory advertising he was billed for in any of the 17 monthly billings mentioned in paragraph 5 of the Findings of Fact, and for which advertising he paid, and the union of the original mistake of the telephone company and the continuing negligence of Petitioner caused him to be guilty of at least a technical violation of the law as charged in Subdivision 1 of Paragraph III of the Accusation."
...

CA(2)(2) Before entering upon a discussion of the findings and the evidence we should state what we believe to be the determinative factual issue. There is no doubt that petitioner was improperly listed in the telephone director as an "M.D." as found by the court. There was ample evidence to support the finding that the erroneous listing was the result of a mistake on the part of the telephone company. There was also evidence which the court could properly have believed that petitioner caused a cancellation of the listing on August 25, 1953 "about the time when petitioner learned of the listing of his name as an M.D. physician and surgeon." Petitioner paid an extra charge of 50 cents per month for directory advertising for a period of _[**698]_ 17 months. The court found that he was negligent in not finding out what the charges were for or how his name was listed. This finding, as we shall see, was inconclusive. Petitioner could have been negligent in these respects and yet innocent of any wrongful intention. Upon the other hand the finding that he was negligent does not_[***10]_ acquit him of having acted in bad faith and with ulterior motives.

The question is not merely whether petitioner had actual knowledge of the erroneous listing. It is rather the question whether he had reasonable cause to believe that his name was or might be incorrectly listed and refrained from making inquiry with the intention of taking advantage of the telephone company's mistake, if a mistake were being made. If his omission to make inquiry was wilful rather than innocent his lack of knowledge would be no defense to a charge that he made use of the suffix "M.D." The basic question, therefore, was whether his professed ignorance was the result of carelessness or culpability.

I'll tell you what, Osteopath -- to show what a nice guy I am, you may substitute the $1000 payment for the names of the DO's you were in business with who knowingly allowed their names to appear as "M.D."'s in the phonebook. Knowledge + failure to correct is all I need. I'll give their names to the appropriate state board and we'll call it even. After all, I'm supposed to aspire to 50 hours of pro bono work per year.

Very truly yours,
mdjd
 
CAUSE I SMELL A BURN!!!

BUT, what worries me is that what if the phone book just messed up and accidentally put M.D. instead of D.O. I'd be scared.
 
That was truly spoken like a true ambulance chaser counsellor! I suppose being an MD/JD makes you qualified to read between the lines and find every little piece of info that others would have missed. Assuming you aren't the loser MD/JD that got kicked off the new NBC show "The Apprentice" the very first episode for being a total idiot, I would expect that you could have come up with some sort of case that showed some current DO's masquerading as MD's. As you will see if you re-read my original post counsellor, I used the word "masquerading", which in the English language means to be "currently" doing something. Jeez counsellor, couldn't you even produce some sort of evidence from DO's who are either currently in practice, currently alive, or who even graduated from medical school in the latter half of the last century? Used to, you little snake-handler attorneys had to everything by hand and actually use the card index at your local law library, but now you can punch into your little Palm Pilot and come up with something 50 years old. Lets be realistic counsellor, you and I and everyone else on this forum know that 1950 was a different time for DO's. They had to fight for everything they had and they were not even allowed to practice in most states. I could do a web-search on your little Palm pilot looking for how many African American individuals were hanged in Mississippi during that time for simple prejudice, but that doesn't mean it continues to happen today. But that was an honest attempt at manipulating the jury as you guys are often so good at. But it won't matter before too long, because once every state gets onboard with medical tort reform, your profession will seek to move on to other professions to bother. 1952!! I can't believe you tried to pass that one off on these intelligent medical professionals. You really should get yourself a good clerk! Oh, and I'll wire you something alright...how about a nice telegram telling you to CHASE AMBULANCES ELSEWHERE, WE'RE ALL CHASED OUT IN TEXAS!!
 
These arguments are so petty. There are so many more important things you can put your energy into like trying to fix the current crisis that we as physicians face now, or as medical students will be facing in the future, there is a grim road ahead for all physicians and it certainly does not make a distinction between MD?s & DO?s, PCP?s or specialists. We don?t have the authority we used to, we are told how we can and cannot treat patients by non-physicians, thanks to insurance companies and ?medical necessity clauses? that we allowed to happen because we fell asleep at the wheel. We are getting sued every which way by sweet talking trial lawyers that have convinced this nation that doctors have bottomless pockets, that every baby should be born perfect, and if anything (and I mean anything) goes wrong it?s the doctors fault. Well guess what... we don?t, that cant happen, and no its not. Thanks to these people malpractice is outrageous. Do you know how many private practice ob/gyn?s are in the Bronx right now? On of the most medically undeserved area in the nation. Not one. I?ll say it again. Not one.

And here we sit bickering like children...

Here?s a riddle for all of you. A diabetic goes to a family practice doc, an internist, a nurse practitioner and an endocrinologist. Who gets the most reimbursement? ... they get the same amount.

Well the endocrinologist has done the most training and certainly he can manage a diabetic better than someone straight out of nursing school right? Damn straight. So what?s the point of specializing if we can get the same amount of reimbursement as a nurse? the benefit to the patient, our own lust for learning? Sure, but should not we be rewarded for this? Did you know that every dollar that is paid as an insurance premium, 14 cents actually go to cover health care costs. 16 cents go to advertising. They pay more for friggin? advertisements!! And the rest goes to processing the 3' pile of papers we have to fill out when someone scrapes there knee. Does anyone else find this asinine?

So while we were busy fighting with ourselves, insurance CEO?s, trial lawyers, and non-physician health care workers were busy reaching there hand into our pockets and those of the taxpayers at the cost of patient care*.

Scared, angry? Yeah you should be. It?s your future.

*This is in no way is meant to demonize all trial lawyers or people who work for insurance companies as there are plenty out there with good intentions. I am also certainly not attempting to berate those who have chosen other careers in health care. Especially nurses, because we all love you and absolutely could not function with out you. Im just trying to illustrate a point.

At times I get really upset with these forums because of the constant immature bickering that I see here and the amount of people that seem to take all these posts at face value, to heart, or even worse as words that some ?supreme medical being? has set in stone, and they end up completely missing the big picture. We are all supposed to be professionals, act like it. Nothing is set in stone. If you don?t like it, change it. If it hasn?t been done before, do it. Lastly, for gods sake quit arguing. Sorry but this crap just makes me sick. Every once and awhile you need to stop, take a look at that bigger picture and ask yourself what really matters.

I will be posting this in other threads I am disgusted with.

Thank you for letting me rant, as you can see I was very moved by a health policy lecture I had this afternoon 🙂 which I am almost reiterating. I will now step off my soap box and try to prevent future outbursts such as these from happening. I hope I have not offended anyone, I am only trying to open my future colleague?s eyes to the severity of the problems that face us in the future.


Cowboy