D.O. student Competitive for Top ranked program with Good USMLE/COMLEX Step 1

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GADO89

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Hi,
I am a 3rd year D.O. student who got a 256 USMLE step 1 and 688 COMLEX ( 97th percentile) score. I have done case reports and have been doing pretty well on 3rd year rotations. Do I have a shot for IM residencies like Vanderbilt, Duke, UNC, John Hopkins, MGH, and BWH? I want to know if its worth my effort to rotate at these places 4th year or just stick with good programs where I know there are some D.O.'s like Wake Forest, Georgetown, State programs, etc. Thanks for the advice. If you know of any great programs where you have seen D.O.'s at for IM please let me know.
 
No, you have no chance at those places. And it's 100% because you're a DO. Sorry. There are plenty of great programs that will look at you, many of them better than Wake (which is good) or GT (which is mediocre), but the "Top 4/10" are just not happening for you. Don't waste your time rotation at places like that if your goal is to get an IV and get ranked highly...it's not happening.
 
My DO school just had someone match at mayo.....do your research, find which programs have in the past matched DO's. With scores like that, you should be able to get a pretty awesome IM spot
 
midweststudent1 said:
They matched mayo derm at that. As a DO......nothing's impossible.
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Aw.....that's so not true.

OP, you're not matching at the aforementioned places (and it's, ahem, Johns, not John) unless your family recently built a wing at MGH. But that's ok, there are still plenty of places to get excellent training out there.
 
GADO89 said:
Hi,
I am a 3rd year D.O. student who got a 256 USMLE step 1 and 688 COMLEX ( 97th percentile) score. I have done case reports and have been doing pretty well on 3rd year rotations. Do I have a shot for IM residencies like Vanderbilt, Duke, UNC, John Hopkins, MGH, and BWH? I want to know if its worth my effort to rotate at these places 4th year or just stick with good programs where I know there are some D.O.'s like Wake Forest, Georgetown, State programs, etc. Thanks for the advice. If you know of any great programs where you have seen D.O.'s at for IM please let me know.
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First of all, case reports aren't going to cut it for a research minded institution (like MGH, The Brigham, Duke and Hopkins). I wouldn't be surprised if you get no interveiws from those places.

Second, IM at the top is just as competitive as most things at the top. Board scores in the 250s are commonplace.

Third, a 250 is no longer the score it once was given the grade inflation that has occured in the last 4 or so years.

Fourth, most of those places at the top have never taken a DO.

That's not to say you shouldn't apply but those places are unlikely to take you because you did a rotation there. When I was a resident at one of the aforementioned programs, there was a DO med student who did a rotation and he didn't even get a nod for an interveiw. So if you want to do an away, a place like an upper mid-tier program would be better if you are looking to improve your chances at that program. Many places wont even allow visiting students to do a rotation on general medicine so it's not like you would even get a feel for those programs. Choose your away wisely
 
midweststudent1 said:
They matched mayo derm at that. As a DO......nothing's impossible.
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Yup, everything is rainbows and butterflies.

So the arguement is that it is very tough to match a top IM program as a DO. Since no DO has ever matched a top IM categorical program, it seems likely that argument is true. It will probably eventually happen but to hang ones hopes on matching a top program as a DO is stupid.

It makes no difference if a single guy from some random school ever matched to a competitive program in a different specialty. It doesn't change the overwhelming trend in the specialty we are talking about.
 
Instatewaiter said:
Yup, everything is rainbows and butterflies.

So the arguement is that it is very tough to match a top IM program as a DO. Since no DO has ever matched a top IM categorical program, it seems likely that argument is true. It will probably eventually happen but to hang ones hopes on matching a top program as a DO is stupid.

It makes no difference if a single guy from some random school ever matched to a competitive program in a different specialty. It doesn't change the overwhelming trend in the specialty we are talking about.
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midweststudent1 said:
http://www.kcumb.edu/uploadedFiles/Content/Academics/_Assets/2013MatchSpecialty.pdf

Couple lines down....under derm....
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Several things:

1) Mayo Clinic in Rochester has a D.O. on derm faculty at Mayo which that in itself is a huge factor for allowing D.O.s to match into an ACGME Dermatology residency and is well known for taking D.O.s, as well as international MDs (who have done research postdoc years in Derm at Mayo) in the past. That person is not the first D.O. to match into Mayo by any means, and likely will not be the last.

2) The person who matched in 2013 at Dermatology at Mayo (I will leave his/her name out as he/she probably prefers to not have his/her name bantered about in this thread) had 5 publications in Dermatology done with Mayo Derm faculty, and not all case reports either, one with the program director of Mayo's derm program. I have no idea whether this was done through a research year taking time off during medical school, but point is that he/she networked and published well with this program and matched to it.

Just wanted to add clarification as to the context behind that match for others who may not be aware.
 
It's still worth applying. An adjunct professor at my DO school practices IM in the area. He did his IM residency at johns Hopkins. Pm me and I will give you his name. Several of my classmates have rotated with him and say he's amazing. Take what these people say with a grain of salt and don't let them dissuade you.
 
rjgennarelli said:
It's still worth applying. An adjunct professor at my DO school practices IM in the area. He did his IM residency at johns Hopkins. Pm me and I will give you his name. Several of my classmates have rotated with him and say he's amazing. Take what these people say with a grain of salt and don't let them dissuade you.
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lemme guess he did his residency 30 years ago when things were completely different than the way they are today

if there's anything people should take with a grain of salt it's whatever's coming from the guy telling DOs they can do IM residency at Hopkins if they close their eyes and wish hard enough

There are zero recent examples of a DO matching into a top university program. There are none on the resident rosters of any of those top programs. A handful of mid-tier university programs also do not consider DOs.
 
I'm sure there are plenty of other examples. I haven't the time or willingness to look for them. I just gave you one whom I know and did not have to do any searching around to find. If by 30 years ago you mean less than 20 and it being less difficult back then to match in a top tier MD residency back than it is now, then I guess you're right, meat tornado.
 
MeatTornado said:
lemme guess he did his residency 30 years ago when things were completely different than the way they are today

if there's anything people should take with a grain of salt it's whatever's coming from the guy telling DOs they can do IM residency at Hopkins if they close their eyes and wish hard enough

There are zero recent examples of a DO matching into a top university program. There are none on the resident rosters of any of those top programs. A handful of mid-tier university programs also do not consider DOs.
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After reading this again, this is such a ridiculous post. Close your eyes and wish hard enough? What in the world is your problem? OP worked hard for his board scores and is doing excellent as a third year working toward his goal.

You speak in absolutes as if it's completely impossible. People who make statements like this are often wrong. Why are you so viciously involved in threads involving DOs anyway? Don't you have anything else to do? Jesus.
 
rjgennarelli said:
I'm sure there are plenty of other examples. I haven't the time or willingness to look for them. I just gave you one whom I know and did not have to do any searching around to find. If by 30 years ago you mean less than 20 and it being less difficult back then to match in a top tier MD residency back than it is now, then I guess you're right, meat tornado.
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so your example is meaningless since it's not from the recent past....that is if it's even true.

rjgennarelli said:
After reading this again, this is such a ridiculous post. Close your eyes and wish hard enough? What in the world is your problem? OP worked hard for his board scores and is doing excellent as a third year working toward his goal.

You speak in absolutes as if it's completely impossible. People who make statements like this are often wrong. Why are you so viciously involved in threads involving DOs anyway? Don't you have anything else to do? Jesus.
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i'm making fun of you because you are giving garbage "advice" without any knowledge or background trying to contradict attendings and residents. it has nothing to do with OP. Good for him for doing well but unfortunately the fact that he's a DO is going to hold him back. that's the simple reality....i'm sorry if it upsets you.
 
I have personally gone through the match lists of all the top IM programs (~10-12 programs) I could find online (for other reasons). There are no DOs at these programs, but there are some IMGs. Even if there's a 1% chance that the OP could match at these programs, there's no use in holding out any hope whatsoever. It would only set you up for disappointment, especially as IM is becoming increasingly competitive year after year. It's true that it doesn't hurt to apply, but the OP should assume that s/he stands virtually no chance.
 
rd31 said:
I have personally gone through the match lists of all the top IM programs (~10-12 programs) I could find online (for other reasons). There are no DOs at these programs, but there are some IMGs. Even if there's a 1% chance that the OP could match at these programs, there's no use in holding out any hope whatsoever. It would only set you up for disappointment, especially as IM is becoming increasingly competitive year after year. It's true that it doesn't hurt to apply, but the OP should assume that s/he stands virtually no chance.
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Just to take that a step further this is somewhat true for the top 20 (whichever you think those may be) or so programs whose rosters I've looked at recently. The chances are incredibly slim to get into these places even for MDs from not top ~30 med schools, let alone being a DO. Having said that who can argue with applying regardless - what's another few hundred bucks compared to what you'll owe anyways
 
A DO with 250s and an otherwise good app is lucky to match into a decent mid tier university program, based on what I've gathered this year. Lower top tier doesn't even happen, let alone top programs
 
A 1% chance is a chance and is far from an impossibility. It's been done before and while unlikely, it will be done again.
 
rd31 said:
There are no DOs at these programs, but there are some IMGs.
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to be clear there are FMGs (non-US citizens who were extremely accomplished and hail from top med schools in their home country) not IMGs (US citizens at overseas/caribbean schools)

rd31 said:
Even if there's a 1% chance that the OP could match at these programs, there's no use in holding out any hope whatsoever. It would only set you up for disappointment, especially as IM is becoming increasingly competitive year after year. It's true that it doesn't hurt to apply, but the OP should assume that s/he stands virtually no chance.
Click to expand...

rjgennarelli said:
A 1% chance is a chance and is far from an impossibility. It's been done before and while unlikely, it will be done again.
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:bang:

....i can't do this anymore
 
rjgennarelli said:
After reading this again, this is such a ridiculous post. Close your eyes and wish hard enough? What in the world is your problem? OP worked hard for his board scores and is doing excellent as a third year working toward his goal.

You speak in absolutes as if it's completely impossible. People who make statements like this are often wrong. Why are you so viciously involved in threads involving DOs anyway? Don't you have anything else to do? Jesus.
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is it absolutely IMpossible? …no nothing is IMpossible….i could win a million dollars…i could get an NIH grant…I could find an endocrinology position that pays me 500K…but is it realistic? no of course not.

its great that the OP has worked hard and got such great scores…and if he had made the decision to go to an allopathic school he would have had a better chance at an ALLOPATHIC residency at a top residency program,….realize that its not even a sure shot for strong MD 4th yr applicants…

sure apply if you feel the need to apply for the off chance that one of those programs may entertain your application …but don't expect it to happen and don't be disappointed if you hear nothing (though MGH sent me a very nice rejection letter in the mail on very nice paper when i applied 🙂 )
 
OP: If you want to take a month and try to do an away at one of these top programs so you can blow people's minds, I don't see what the problem with that is. Many of these "top" programs with the strong DO bias won't take DO 4th years to rotate either, so if you can get accepted at a place for a solid sub-I rotation I would say that indicates you may have some whisper of a chance of actually being considered as a residency applicant (provided everything else works in your favor as well). As others in this thread have been saying (with a somewhat rude tone, I feel), the chances are slim and I wouldn't hang your hat on previous stories of people matching. ...That doesn't mean don't give it a shot for one month if the opportunity is available to you. Just don't put all your eggs in that basket.

Awesome scores. You should be proud of those.
 
fiznat said:
OP: If you want to take a month and try to do an away at one of these top programs so you can blow people's minds, I don't see what the problem with that is. Many of these "top" programs with the strong DO bias won't take DO 4th years to rotate either, so if you can get accepted at a place for a solid sub-I rotation I would say that indicates you may have some whisper of a chance of actually being considered as a residency applicant (provided everything else works in your favor as well). As others in this thread have been saying (with a somewhat rude tone, I feel), the chances are slim and I wouldn't hang your hat on previous stories of people matching. ...That doesn't mean don't give it a shot for one month if the opportunity is available to you. Just don't put all your eggs in that basket.

Awesome scores. You should be proud of those.
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no. it's been shown/proven that aways do very very little at improving your chances.
 
disorder said:
no. it's been shown/proven that aways do very very little at improving your chances.
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I'd say "proven" is a little strong. ...Perhaps a word that should never be used, even, to describe anything having to do with this ridiculous and oftentimes random process. I've had a handful of pretty positive experiences with Sub-I's, and I personally feel like they made a difference for me. If OP wants to try his luck with one of the programs, and it matters to him that much, I think starting with a Sub-I is a reasonable approach. Feel free to disagree- it won't hurt my feelings.
 
rjgennarelli said:
It's still worth applying. An adjunct professor at my DO school practices IM in the area. He did his IM residency at johns Hopkins. Pm me and I will give you his name. Several of my classmates have rotated with him and say he's amazing. Take what these people say with a grain of salt and don't let them dissuade you.
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Yeah I'm calling Bull**** on this. Perhaps this guy went to one of the satelite programs at Bayview or Sinai which aren't really Johns Hopkins. I doubt it was the Osler program. Post his/her name to prove it. Otherwise we all know it's a lie.
 
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fiznat said:
OP: If you want to take a month and try to do an away at one of these top programs so you can blow people's minds, I don't see what the problem with that is. Many of these "top" programs with the strong DO bias won't take DO 4th years to rotate either, so if you can get accepted at a place for a solid sub-I rotation I would say that indicates you may have some whisper of a chance of actually being considered as a residency applicant (provided everything else works in your favor as well). As others in this thread have been saying (with a somewhat rude tone, I feel), the chances are slim and I wouldn't hang your hat on previous stories of people matching. ...That doesn't mean don't give it a shot for one month if the opportunity is available to you. Just don't put all your eggs in that basket.

Awesome scores. You should be proud of those.
Click to expand...

Some of these people with "a somewhat rude tone" were actually residents at these programs and know what's up.

At these programs, visiting students get stuck off of the general medicine services and sequestered onto specialty services which leave you little exposure to the program and even less exposure to people who matter in terms of your likelihood of matching.
 
Instatewaiter said:
Some of these people with "a somewhat rude tone" were actually residents at these programs and know what's up.
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I didn't say anything about the validity of the content, only the manner in which it was conveyed. There is a little bit of unnecessary zeal here in doling out this news to DO students- true or not.
 
I dint know why it would be so shocking if a DO slipped in at Hopkins that one time whenever. Who gives an eff? Seriously? If it happens it's a rare even. Applying with a DO is currently an uphill battle. End of discussion.

This thread is RUHtarded. And you all should be ashamed of yourselves.
 
just my 2 cents....im from baltimore so I have alot of family and friends that work in the JHU health system so ive been able to do alot of shadowing there. This past summer i shadowed with a resident anesthesiologist who was a DO, and this was not the only DO ive seen around there
 
To OP:

Talk to whoever is in charge of matching. The best predictor of where you'll match is where others in your situation have matched. If your school is worth anything, they should have lots statistics on where people who similar to what you scored matched.
 
Forget the fact that as a DO you can't match IM at a place like Brigham or Mass Gen. If you don't go to a solid enough MD school, you hardly have a chance. Just look at their rosters - basically filled with top tier MD grads. Those places select from the cream of the crop.
 
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