D.O. to D.O.,M.D.... For Some Money

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ramsestiger

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I realize this is a touchy issue for many, so please don't start a flame war. There's a school that basically recruits American D.O.'s and gives them M.D.'s (ACGME accredited). You can basically use American rotations to count as M.D. rotations from this school. The University of Health Sciences in Antigua is obviously out to make some money here for paper-stamping your M.D. Would anyone consider paying money for this sort of thing?

I LOVE holistic medicine, OMT, etc. However, the only thing I dislike about osteopathy is that NO ONE really knows what the heck it is. Most people have a hard time believing you when you tell them that D.O.'s are doctors licensed to prescribe medicine and do surgery (without a lengthy conversation). That would be the only reason why I would consider this type of thing, and a D.O., M.D. doesn't really hide the fact that I went to an excellent osteopathic school. The D.O. first seems to almost emphasize the fact, and when the patients or friends see your business card, they don't really have to be told that you're a physician. And, it's a lot easier to say that D.O.'s do everything M.D.'s do and more!

Here's a list of D.O.'s who've gone through it (includes one from KCOM):

http://www.uhsa.com/pstudent/alumni/list.php?cat=do

Here's the link to their ad for D.O.'s in training or grads:

http://www.uhsa.com/pstudent/four/resdt/

http://www.uhsa.com/pstudent/MD-PGDTM/

Any thoughts?

Request: Please be congenial!
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Originally posted by ramsestiger
..and a D.O., M.D. doesn't really hide the fact that I went to an excellent osteopathic school.
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Neither does it conceal one's own insecurities... As you well know, DO's are fully licensed physicians. The only time I'd be concerned about the letters after my name would be when another's ignorance kept me from doing what I know I have the right and capability of doing. The rest is all meaningless. It's like arguing your gender and needing to take off your clothes to prove it. That being said, keep your clothes on and be happy you know better.
 
"My DO degree has not caused me any limitations to date, but in the United States, the MD alleviates any problems I might have in my practice. The program at UHSA has provided me with the means of acquiring an MD, and yet being able to continue the practice of medicine in the United States. " - Dr. Bartasis

"I believe that the pursuit of medical excellence can only come through diligence, hard work and constant training to learn new ideas and approaches." - Dr. Weinberg

"The acquisition of an MD has made my practice more competitive." Dr. Underwood

"Entering and MD program offered me a chance to review and renew my knowledge in the major areas of medicine, which benefit me in practice situations." - Dr. Loiudice

"The University of Health Sciences Antigua provided me with the degree to practice medicine all over the world." - Dr. Khoda

"I am grateful that UHSA has developed such a special program that allowed me to earn an MD degree which has made my medical missionary plans in other parts of the world more easily accomplished." - Dr. Eng

" ? University of Osteopathic Medicine Health Science, D.O. Class of 1944

? University of Health Sciences Antigua M.D. Class of 2002 " - Dr. Belinski

Dr. Bonbrisco earned his Doctor of Osteopathic (DO) degree from Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine, and his MBA from Elder Baker University School of Graduate Studies in Michigan. He is Assistant Clinical Professor at Michigan State University College Of Osteopathic Medicine He is also a member of the Medical Records Committee and Performance Improvement Counsel. Dr. Bonbrisco is now the Medical Director of the McLaren Family Care center, Fenton, Michigan. The McLaren Health Care Corporation is rated 10th among the Top 1000 Health Networks, and delivers a full continuum of health care services, including preventive, primary, acute, outpatient, home and extended care services.

.......................................................................


It seems to me that recent grads haven't exactly been compensating for an inferiority complex or living with insecurities. Of course, to each his own. I just think it's a little simplistic to dismiss the idea altogether. It would be kind of cool if the AOA did its job really well and everyone knew about D.O.'s, but until then...
 
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I'd MUCH rather be a D.O. than an M.D. from the UHSA. That's all I'll say without sounding too critical. :D

Dr_sax, LECOM '07
 
Originally posted by Dr_sax
I'd MUCH rather be a D.O. than an M.D. from the UHSA. That's all I'll say without sounding too critical. :D

Dr_sax, LECOM '07
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I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to force the issue, but wouldn't you rather be BOTH? Even though it probably won't improve you drastically as a physician, it would make your interactions with patients a little easier - just my opinion.

On top of that, a D.O., M.D. puts the better degree first. ;)
 
Were it not for the Tropical Medicine training portion of the program I would have to say that it is pretty much BS. However, I think this aspect of the program makes it legit. In and of itself, the addition of "MD" to one's established DO title is pretty hokey in my opinion, if that is one's sole purpose in attending the twelve month program. It would only make sense if one wanted to practice abroad and therefore needed the official "MD" after their name.

I agree that conversations spent explaining to people that I am at a real medical school, and not a Chiropractic, Oriental Medicine, etc., type of medical school is annoying at times. I rarely encounter such people however. My experience has led me to believe that much of the public doesn't know or care what your degree is. Mostly all people care about is whether or not you make them feel better.

I would consider this program only if A: I had an interest in Tropical Medicine or B: wanted to have the option of practicing in a country that would not license me as a DO. If someone wanted to enroll in this program for other reasons then I would suspect that they should not have gone to a DO school in the first place. Chances are they went DO because they used it as a backup to MD programs they could not get into. But then again, if such individuals wanted the MD for such reasons, I guess they should go for it, since they are not the kind of people we want representing us (Osteopaths) in the US anyway.
 
Originally posted by ramsestiger
I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to force the issue, but wouldn't you rather be BOTH? Even though it probably won't improve you drastically as a physician, it would make your interactions with patients a little easier - just my opinion.

On top of that, a D.O., M.D. puts the better degree first. ;)
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Personally I would not rather be both and aside from the reasons listed above the only other reason I can think of that you would do it is sheer vanity. Yes, it may make a few patient interactions go smoother, but how many?? I shadowed a DO for a number of years and not once did I ever see anyone question him about his degree. I would consider it if it made you this vastly superior doctor, but I don't think it does. I mean really, how much better of a doctor will it make you??
 
you do realize that if you do that, your DO colleagues will think you are a sell-out, and your MD colleagues will think you are an insecure wannabe. frankly, i don't want both and i'm clearly not alone. that program is a waste of time and money. everyone will think you are a fool and you will perpetuate the stereotype that the DO degree is not enough.
 
I didn't see anything about a 12-month program on Tropical Medicine. From what I was told, you just had to volunteer three weeks in an underserved area and pay approximately $4,000. Now, that's not a terribly large sum of money, and 3-5 weeks of volunteering isn't half bad for whatever reason you're doing it.

BUT, I guess I see the error in my ways. Colleagues are probably going to have a strong reaction to the D.O., M.D. thing no matter what, so you're really ostracizing yourself from both communities (allopathic and osteopathic).

I have no intention of doing it myself, but I thought the idea of spending 3 weeks to get your M.D. wasn't a horrible one.
 
i was under the impression it took much more than that to adquire the MD degree....if that is all they told you i would read over the fine print...twice! How did you come across all the information about this?
 
Although AT Still did have BOTH an MD and DO degree I realize that attaining the MD degree for the sole purpose of "showmanship" was not the reason that Still decided to make/earn/invent/postulate the DO degree. However, if there was a strong enough dichotomy between the DO and MD degrees that it warranted a separate "study" of each respective doctorate then I would definitely have to consider this program. However, as I see from their website and from general knowledge, there is NOT such a vast difference between the curricula of MD and DO to warrant such a move.
 
The program is set up in a wink-wink nudge-nudge way...."Well, WE know they're equal, so what you do for your DO will count towards our MD with a little cash, and your patients will be none the wiser!"

Personally, I think that programs like this and the doctors who support them exhibit a remarkable contempt for patients. Maybe the MD does make a practice more competitive, or gets one past uncomfortable DO questions. But it does so by allowing patients to assume that the doctor has a legitimate MD training.
It's a deception premised on the idea that the public is too stupid to understand what a DO entails.

It's akin to chiropractors who insist on calling themselves physicians to gain more credibility. While perhaps technically true, the word comes with a weight of competence that hasn't been earned, and the chiros who take this tack play off that to their own advantage. The only difference in this case is the letters.

The only legitimate use for such a program that I can see would be to gain practice rights in a country that otherwise wouldn't allow them.
 
I agree with the title of this thread, ....for money...

No United States organization like LCME (Liaison Committee on Medical Education) accredits foreign Medical Schools. However, our Institution subscribes to the recommendations of the LCME and the Council on Medical Education of the American Medical Association -- from its website

I don't know how "competitive" one can be by simply putting an additional MD letter behind their title. The site indicates itself as a foreign medical school. So in short, you are paying big $$ for something like a Carribbean school (no offense to those schools) to stitch MD on your coat.
 
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Doesn't the LCME only gives accreditation to MD schools not DO schools?
 
Originally posted by Dr. Lector
Doesn't the LCME only gives accreditation to MD schools not DO schools?
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Only American and Canadian MD schools.

Originally posted by lukealfredwhite
It's a deception premised on the idea that the public is too stupid to understand what a DO entails.
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The intended purpose of the program is to allow DO's to practice in foreign countries where the DO degree is not recognized due to the fact that the United States is the only country where DO's are trained under the same guidelines as American MD's.

I personally think that it would be more uncomfortable to explain why you have a MD and a DO degree. People have dual degrees because they feel one degree "wasn't enough" and felt that their previous degree limited their medical and surgical privileges (i.e. MD/DDS, MD/DPM, MD/DC, etc.).

To the people that understand, I apologize for reiterating the obvious. I just find it offensive for DO's to consider this program with the purpose of somehow "strengthening" their practices in America. I would think more DO's would choose not to refer to you because of such a move. +pissed+
 
Seems to me this program would be shooting the entire DO community in the foot. If massive amounts of DO's went for this program it would be a slap in the face to true Do's. This would also just re-raise the same old questions within the allopathic community and give them fuel to discredit our education. If you are so concerned with the MD title, why don't you head down to the saba and get your MD degree there.
 
Originally posted by Careofme
Although AT Still did have BOTH an MD and DO degree I realize that attaining the MD degree for the sole purpose of "showmanship" was not the reason that Still decided to make/earn/invent/postulate the DO degree. However, if there was a strong enough dichotomy between the DO and MD degrees that it warranted a separate "study" of each respective doctorate then I would definitely have to consider this program. However, as I see from their website and from general knowledge, there is NOT such a vast difference between the curricula of MD and DO to warrant such a move.
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From what I remember, AT Still never had a DO degree, he stayed an MD to the grave. Atleast that's what the OMM Professors at NSUCOM taught me.

Q, DO
 
That list of MD wannabes on the Antigua site is pathetic, but thankfully short.

Maybe this MD degree will work in some states, but California knows it is bogus and won't let you use the MD. I thought this would be of interest because there are 2 DO schools in Cali and I would hope both the DOs "in training" and the "qualified" DOs will save their money and not send it to Antigua.

From California law:

2054. (a) Any person who uses in any sign, business card, or letterhead, or, in an advertisement, the words "doctor" or "physician," the letters or prefix "Dr.," the initials "M.D.," or any other terms or letters indicating or implying that he or she is a physician and surgeon, physician, surgeon, or practitioner under the terms of this or any other law, or that he or she is entitled to practice hereunder, or who represents or holds himself or herself out as a physician and surgeon, physician, surgeon, or practitioner under the terms of this or any other law, without having at the time of so doing a valid, unrevoked, and unsuspended certificate as a physician and surgeon under this chapter, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

and

2055. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a person issued a physician's and surgeon's certificate by the Medical Board of California pursuant to the provisions of this chapter shall be entitled to use of the initials "M.D."

Seems you must be a licensed MD to call yourself an MD. You can practice medicine all you want as a DO with your DO license, but you cannot call yourself an MD. I don't see how this MD will be a practice builder or increase competition if you are limited to "showing off" your diploma on your wall only in the privacy of your own office. The patient would have to already be in your office, and they would be there only through legal marketing as a DO.

Also, DOs are licensed by the Osteopathic Medical Board of California, not the Medical Board of California. So some might think, great, I can use my "foreign" MD, take the USMLE, and apply for licensure as a IMG because the Antigua school is listed on the WHO list and is acceptable to ACGME for their IMG certification process.

Well, the school also happens to be on the Medical Board's list of International Medical Schools Disapproved by the State of California.

From their website:

The Division of Licensing has formally disapproved the international medical schools listed below. Therefore, neither education completed at nor diplomas issued by these schools will be accepted toward meeting the requirements for training and/or licensure in this state.
Name of Medical School
University of Health Sciences Antigua, St. John's
Date Disapproved
07-28-95

Maybe other states are more flexible, but CA knows baloney when they see it.
 
Optho - That's a very convincing argument against the school. I retract anything positive I said about the place in the first place. Just one thing that I wasn't sure about: I heard that D.O.'s were legally permitted to use "M.D." to advertise in California. I could obviously be wrong (and I wouldn't do that in the first place, esp. since lawyers would eat your young if you ever made a mistake).

Just to be crystal clear, I love osteopathic medicine and I am not ashamed of any aspect of my training or educational lineage - the ONLY thing that irks me a little is that the D.O. degree isn't widely recognized. D.O. = M.D. clinically, and I guess it just makes it easier if you didn't have to explain that to people.

I just hope the AOA picks up its advertising efforts so no one would even consider this stuff for even 1 second. I got the information from a friend of mine that's also at a D.O. school.
 
It seems to me that this would be the best way for any DO to practice overseas especially since most commonwealth countries do not recognize the american DO as an MD and will not give full practice rights. If I wanted to live in say england or australia and practice this would be the quickest way to gain rights. Although the AOA is constantly working on foreign practice rights for DO's it is not a priority given all the other burners they have on.

I wonder if they are granting the MD to foreign trained DO's. That would worry me more!!

my 2 cents
russ baker
AZCOM 06
 
Originally posted by QuinnNSU
From what I remember, AT Still never had a DO degree, he stayed an MD to the grave. Atleast that's what the OMM Professors at NSUCOM taught me.

Q, DO
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My lecture notes refer to him as A.T. Still M.D.,D.O. for what it is worth. Obviously the D.O. was honorary, i.e. he never attended an Osteopathic school. He was the school for the most part.
 
"Who are the foreign trained DO's".

There are DO's trained in England who are nothing like US DO's. In England, an Osteopath is someone who mostly does manipulation. They have DO behind their name, but they have pretty much nothing in common with a US DO. They are not licensed physician's. Even the manipulation they do is different from ours. It creates lots of confusion. I had a zoology professor in college who was from England. When I told her I was accepted to an Osteopathic school she was terrified. There was no explaining to her what it was. She is still terrified of my education. If you are a DO in the US and want to practice in England, you can get licensed if you seek it out. It is done on an individual basis, reviewed by the individual board you are trying to get licensed by. Matter of factly, A DO who puts forth the effort can probably get licensed in many places outside the US. There is a DO who graduated from my school who now has a medical license in Greece. Greece does not openly license DO's, but if you go before the licensing board, they will review your case and consider it. They may very well grant you a license, and they may turn you down too. It depends on each individual board. The problem you run into is, who knows what a DO is in greece? According to faculty he is apparently doing well though.
 
Originally posted by OphthoBean

2055. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a person issued a physician's and surgeon's certificate by the Medical Board of California pursuant to the provisions of this chapter shall be entitled to use of the initials "M.D."
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this sounds to me like a DO can interchange the initials MD in California, assuming that DOs and MDs receive the same physician's and surgeon's certificate from the Medical Board of CA. the way i read it, you wouldn't have to go to Antigua and pay more money...
 
DO's are not licensed by the medical board of california. they have their own board in california, the osteopathic medical board of california. the rules and regs of the california medical board(MD) don't apply to DO's. Look at the california DO medical board web site and see how they feel about a DO using the title MD. I would be willing to bet that they frown on it just a little.
 
That is not the point. Regardless of the board that licenses them they are still licensed as a physician to prescribe medicine and perform surgery. So in that context, a good piont was made about the interchanging of initials. It seems like it would be permitted. Is there anyone from CA who is really up on this? I am really interested now.
 
i went to the website for the osteopathic medical board of CA and found this in the regulations:

"A D.O. licensed by the Board shall not use the term 'M.D.'?

i've heard that there are some states that allow a DO to simply use the title MD and was under the impression that CA was one of them, but it doesn't appear that way.

john
 
wow, that's shocking. imagine that, they actually want you to clearly state your profession to the public. what bastards. i thought it might say something like "please call yourself DO, but if that makes you uncomfortable, please by all means call yourself MD, JD, MBBS, PHXYZ or whatever you like."
 
You know, this thread got me thinking (it happens sometimes). I don't believe the name D.O. suits our profession well.

When I try to explain what a D.O. is, and how it's different from an M.D., people get confused, and I can understand why. Most people don't have a clue as to the process you have to go through to become a physician. For example, my grandmother still tells people I am pre-med (since I'm not actually a doc yet). No matter how many times you try to explain, it's futile.

While D.O. was an appropriate term before say, 1916, when we instituted pharmacology in our curricula. From that point on we ave also performed medicine. So Why don't we just change our name to reflect this?

I was thinking, doctor of osteopathy and medicine, or D.O.M.
Or even, doctor of osteopathy, medicine, and surgery, or D.O.M.S.

Besides, D.O sounds too much like O.D. "Oh, you mean your not going to optometry school?" It never ceases to amaze me.

I think it would be a lot easier for people to understand that we are doctors of osteopathy AND medicine if our title actually reflected the entire scope of what we do (I know, I'm a genius).

Not only that, this may help to distinguish U.S. physicians from D.O.s in other countries that only practice osteopathy. It could help in international affairs.

In any event, I think we need to focus efforts in pushing for practice rights in other countries rather than buying a M.D. degree when we already practice medicine.

Of course, I'm not so sure the AOA would hear any of this.

What do you guys think?
 
I think the AOA should lobby to have the MD degree to be changed to DO and force all MD's to take two semesters each of Accelerated OMM and Ego Deflation.
 
Googyone,

Glad to see that there is someone else out there that shares my opinion. I too think the title of osteopathic physicians should denote the full scope of their ability to practice medicine. Because virtually all other professional degrees follow the "backwards" Latin phrasing (MD=Doctor of Medicine, OD=Doctor of Optometry, PhD=Doctor of Philosophy, etc.) then why should Osteopathy be any different. Hence, it seems we would be better served with a OMD=Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degree. I realize this is all somewhat superficial, but I think on some level it might do some good to portray to the public a more easily understood picture of our profression.
 
I couldnt agree more. I think MDO or OMD would be understood easier than just DO, but whatever its not that big of a deal.
 
Hmm...I thought I was pretty clear about the CA licensing thing since I typed (in bold) "Medical Board of California", then stated in my 6th paragraph or so that DOs aren't licensed by the MBC but by the OMBC, and also provided links to my sources so you could read the definitions in the "chapter" of the CA law if you so desired. I am not sure how that could be interepreted as otherwise, but I am glad you went to the OMBC site and found the DO "opinion to agree" with CA law.

As far as the DO title, the best thing I think would be to have consistency in the meaning because it does suck to have foreign trained DOs using the same title when they are not even close to being the same thing. An MD is understood to be a physician worldwide, but a DO is in an unfortunate predicament. Maybe some modification or updating is in order...or have the foreign DOs change the initials to something else.

Depending on who ends up being CA governor, it might be possible to start the initial-changing movement there. :)
 
When I think of the whole DO lettering issue, I think of the US constitution.
For the US constitution to survive and make sense it has to be flexible and bend with time to fit the needs of modern day people. It has meant makeing ammendmants and changes through out the years that may have seemed unimaginable years ago.
If the DO profession wants to surive, I think the Osteopathic community will have to be flexible as well, and consider the possibility of changeing the lettering system to somthing like OMD.
I agree completely, DO just doesn't really explain what we are well. Times have changed, it is safe to take the drugs most dr's prescribe. Bone manipulation is no longer a replacement for mercury and poison. The word Osteopathic makes people think bone dr. I think AT still would want us to be liberal and flexible, he was liberal after all. It took a liberal, flexible mind to initiate what he started.
 
The AOA has no interest in blurring the distinction between md's and do's, they want to highlight it in neon. when no distinction between us exists, the need for do's no longer exists. they want to ensure that does not happen, and that our profession does not get assimilated out of existence. i hope someone calls the aoa to propose the title change, and please make sure you record the hysterical laughter from the other end of the line for posterity. i have a feeling the aoa is rather unconcerned with the desires of vain medical students(actually medical students in general).
 
Originally posted by bigmuny
when no distinction between us exists, the need for do's no longer exists.
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or...the need for md's no longer exist. To point back to the history of osteopathic medicine, AT Still's intentions were to answer the call for a needed recall and restructuring of the practices and educational methods of medicine of his time. Something existed before the existence of the "MD" degree. With the overwhelming increase in the rate of osteopathic schools and graduates being produced, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a complete adoption of osteopathic ideology in today's healthcare. I personally don't care if the letters DO or MD get phased out (as long as I have the privlege to practice medicine), but I do see a need for change in the values expected of medical students worldwide.
 
ok, so if we change the DO to OMD, then wouldnt we have to say...ok, so im a doc that can do everything an MD can do, but im a DO, but wait, we recently changed our name to OMD, or was it MDO?


i think the AOA should do just a little more promotion for us D.O.s!
 
In response to the last three or so posts....

I don't think anyone proposing the title change can be labeled a vain or conceited medical student. It simply is a matter of attempting to accurately portray the scope of an osteopath's training. I don't think anyone here is chomping at the bit to arrange a protest outside the AOA headquarters. Like Lion's Pride said, "It's not that big of a deal."

And in so far as any confusion being borne out of a possibe degree change, it didn't seem to cause any major hiccups in the world of dentistry when dental schools started to change their degree from DDS (Doctor of Dental Science) to DMD (Doctor of Dental Medicine) in order to convey more appropriately dentist's roles as healthcare practicioners.

AT Still's choice of labeling the degree from his school, the ASO, to be DO was largely due to his intent to separate his practice of medicine from the treatment modalities of the MDs of his day--blood letting, purging, etc. Given the fact that the modern medicine of his day essentially took the lives of most of his family, who can blame him for wanting to get as far away from being close to anything resembling a MD. In the today's world, however, the lines between DOs and MDs is much more blurred, and consequently I don't think suggesting a change away from the DO title to something that includes the word "medicine" is all that outrageous or conceited. One of the things I love about Osteopathy and its history is that it placed tantamount to all other things the need for the profession's ability to change with the times, and to assimilate methods of treatment that best served the patient. It is this precept that I believe makes DOs superior to the more antiquated, haughty institutions of medical learning. It is following the spirit of AT Still's devotion to recognizing the need for subscribing to the pragmatic aspect of the evolution of medicine, and not his exact words, that makes a good osteopathic physician. That it my two cents worth behind why I think a shift to OMD from DO, or something of the like, is in order. But as a disclaimer, like I said before, I recognize that this is all rather superficial.
 
"One of the things I love about Osteopathy and its history is that it placed tantamount to all other things the need for the profession's ability to change with the times, and to assimilate methods of treatment that best served the patient. It is this precept that I believe makes DOs superior to the more antiquated, haughty institutions of medical learning." - Plinko


Plinko, I couldn't agree more about Osteopathy. I wish I could say the same for our governing body.

While this is a superficial thing, I believe it is still important.

Forgive the comparison here, but:
What if CarX muffler had started doing brake jobs, but never changed their name to CarX muffler and brake. Doesn't it just make sense to change your name to reflect what you do?

Why don't surgeons still call themselves barbers? Pretty ridiculous, isn't it?

Please try to see my point here rather than calling me out on my admittedly silly comparisons.

".....i have a feeling the aoa is rather unconcerned with the desires of vain medical students(actually medical students in general)." - Bigmuny

You're right about the AOA being unconcerned, and thanks for the compliment Bigmuny, although I wouldn't say I'm vain. I'm just narcissistic. (Yes, that was a joke)

I think it's just this kind of attitude that is bad for our profession. I don't see how moving forward, making changes for the better, and stepping up PR can be conceived as vain. If we don't sell ourselves, nobody else is going to do it for us. A name change is only a small step in the process, but I believe it is an important one. I think it gets the message out that we are not behind the times. That we are not "against using medications and surgery."

Ultimately you are right Bigmuny, as the AOA is more concerned with retaining a perceived separation from the MD world than improving the profession for us and for our patients (I call THAT vain).

Peace
 
D.O. no longer stands for "Doctor of Osteopathy" but "Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine"

I think the change occurred in the early 90s - as the AOA (yes, the same AOA we're complaining about) decided that it wanted to convey to the public that we are in fact physicians. Technically speaking, we are not (or will not) be osteopaths but osteopathic physicians.

FYI, OMD = Doctor of Oriental Medicine. If you want to go w/ the latin initial, it will then be "O.D", which the optometrists already claim. Of course, latin initial is antiquated (like using S.B. in lieu of BS and A.B. in lieu of BA)

If I recall correctly, the DOs in England are not doctors, even by title. They are awarded the "Diplomat of Osteopathy", which btw, is what Dr. Still gave out initially. Therefore, the title "Doctor" is not conferred upon graduates of British programs, and they therefore cannot technically call themselves doctors.
I think some school in England now are starting to award Bachelor Degrees in Osteopathy (either a Bachelor of Osteopathy OR a Bachelor of Science in Osteopathy)

Just useless info
 
group_therapy

Thanks for the info on the OMD title. I had no idea it stood for Doctor of Oriental Medicine. There goes that idea. Just to point out something I think you might have overlooked.....I don't think anyone is having a problem with how the AOA views osteopathic medicine or the DO title. As you said, they were the ones that included "medicine" in the DO title. I think what people are saying is where's the "M" (Medicine) in "DO?" Of course, all DOs are aware of the AOA's inclusion of "medicine" in the title. It's those outside of the osteopathic world that is what concerns me/us more. If you go to the AMA website, which does include DOs in their "Doctor Finder" registry, you'll find that DOs are saddled with the "Osteopath" label. I don't think that does DOs justice. To add insult to injury, those DOs that specialize in OMM don't even have the option of listing that specialty even if they are an AMA member. They have to put down "Other" as their designated specialty. I find that somewhat insulting. If such barriers are to be broken, I think it is incumbent upon the AOA to be a bit more flexible, and shift their representation of DOs more to the center, which is what I think most here are getting at. The title change was just an idea towards that end. One that I'm sure will happen no time soon.

I'll stop rambling now. I've spent way too much time elaborating on a topic I really don't care that much about. I just wanted to defend those that were attacked for suggesting the possible need for a degree change. I think their reasoning is sound and they do have a point that is worth being heard.
 
Originally posted by Plinko
group_therapy
Click to expand...

Quick clarification. My handle (or user name) is Group Theory, not Group Therapy. The only reason I bring this up is because there is another user nicknamed "Group Therapy".

Group theory is a math concept involving sets. It has also found use in Chemistry for symmetry of molecules (point groups, character tables).

A good intro to group theory is found at here

http://members.tripod.com/~dogschool/

Cheers!!!!!
 
goofyone-I realize my reply came across as a bit nasty, sorry about that. believe me, i want some change in the aoa. this issue is just cosmetic though, there are much bigger deals than this that we should be concerned with regarding our profession. for instance, the openning of new schools every year(call me do, md, omd, whatever, but don't mess with my money and future by flooding the market with new docs) or the lack of good post-grad programs, ect...
 
GROUP_THEORY-

Sorry about the name mix up. I'm currently taking Fundamentals of Behavior (aka Psychiatry for Dummies) and I must have had a Freudian slip. Thanks for link. Interesting stuff.
 
how about this:
we change the MD degree into DA (Doctor of Allopathy)...
and DO's will stay DO's.

so you'll have two kinds of physicians: DO's and DA's.
another alternative: OP's and AP's...but that doesn't sound as pleasing somehow.

there you go, problem solved.
 
Camp town races here we come...DO DA DO DA
 
Originally posted by bigmuny
goofyone-I realize my reply came across as a bit nasty, sorry about that. believe me, i want some change in the aoa. this issue is just cosmetic though, there are much bigger deals than this that we should be concerned with regarding our profession. for instance, the openning of new schools every year(call me do, md, omd, whatever, but don't mess with my money and future by flooding the market with new docs) or the lack of good post-grad programs, ect...
Click to expand...


No offense taken bigmuny. I know it's i minor detail. But I'm a detail kind of guy. That's one reason i'm in this profession.
Besides, it was just a thought.

BTW i totally agree with your thoughts on our future. Maybe we should be running the AOA.
 
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