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DAT 4th Time Not ACCEPTED????

Discussion in 'Pre-Dental' started by urDDS, Dec 16, 2008.

  1. urDDS

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    Was told by most schools such as Temple, Tufts etc , that only 3 times and thats it, i wanted to retake 4th time in Jan. Im lossing hope.:scared:
     
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  3. Lopyswine

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    its not up to the schools. the ADA doesn't allow a 3rd retake. You take it 3 times TOTAL.
     
  4. rdhdds1

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    The ADA does allow up to 3 times to take the DAT. After that you have to petition and go through a bunch of red tape in order to take it more than that. The best option is to always call the ADA and verify that this still holds true.

    Good luck
     
  5. dent2009

    dent2009 YEEE BOI
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    ADA allows you to take it a 4th time under certain circumstances. Even if you are allowed, schools probably frown up it and may choose to not even consider your application...
     
    #4 dent2009, Dec 16, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2008
  6. lowejena

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    I took the DAT a 4th time. The red tape isn't that difficult. You just need to send them a rejection letter or proof that you have been attempting to get into dental school
     
  7. illiniteeths

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    So you don't think that if you improved it would look good to dental schools? What about applicants who are applying second or third years in a row and need a higher score?
     
  8. Ranelar

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    I don't think dental school should be something where as long as you keep bashing your head against the wall, you should get in. It's a good thing that there are only so many chances to score well on a standardized test, especially considering that there are soooooo many resources out there dedicated to helping people ace it.
     
  9. Lopyswine

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    let's put it in perspective,

    if you took Orgo II, four times and received C+,B-,B,B+.

    Do you really think the school cares? Or what if it was F, C, B, A.

    Who cares? you took the test 4 times. You should be at 25+ after 4 attempts. Improvement isn't enough.
     
  10. dent2009

    dent2009 YEEE BOI
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    If you are a reapplicant, dental schools look for improvements in any area of the application, of course. But look at it this way, if it takes you 4 tries to do well on the DAT, how many tries will you need to pass the boards? Let alone pass dental school classes? Do schools wanna take the chance of admitting you or another qualified applicant didn't struggle as much and thus who won't be as "risky"? Bottomline is, if you wanna increase your chances of acceptance, do well on the DAT the first time, if not the second.
     
    #9 dent2009, Dec 16, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2008
  11. dentstd

    dentstd Fena Gonzales
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    The harsh reality is that some schools only consider the first 3 scores. After that, they may not consider them. The schools are basically saying, there comes a point when you have to reevaluate whether dentistry's for you.
     
  12. Lopyswine

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    is it a harsh reality or just reality. Personally I think you should only be allowed to take any standardized test twice. If you come in completely unprepared and you fail, you then know what you have to do to succeed. You are then given that second chance to do it right. If you mess it up again then you obviously didn't take it seriously enough.

    If you've already taken the DAT 3 times and you can't get your score to where it needs to be, why would you think ANOTHER attempt would do the trick?
     
  13. ou_jay

    ou_jay Junior Member
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    Well there sure is a lot of self-assured and harsh advice in this thread from people who aren't actually involved in admissions.

    I am on an adcom, and I would say that if your DAT score is the problem with your application, then bringing it up will help you. This is true no matter how many times you've taken the DAT.

    Unfortunately, there is a problem. The reason improving your DAT score is helpful is because the test is well designed and you are unlikely to increase your score w/o learning more or preparing better. So that is what you will have to do. You can't just keep retaking the test and expect things to improve. You need to take additional classes in the subject areas covered on the DAT, and you need to have an excellent plan for test preparation.
     
  14. Crew07

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    Not true.... you can petition for a retake. Also, if you really want to get into school move to Nevada. 100 instate applicants and they take more than half. Just have a strong gpa and good application.
     
    #13 Crew07, Dec 16, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2008
  15. Lopyswine

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    my mistake I was going by the RULES of the ADA. I was unaware you could beg your way to a another retake.
     
  16. cmcner

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    Well maybe if you did your research before giving people bad advice you would have. And it's not about begging it's about not letting people keep taking the test in order to steal questions to make replica practice tests. If you're a dental student you should practice responsibility with the advice you give, you'll eventually get sued if you don't. So is the way of the medical profession.
     
  17. Lopyswine

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    :thumbup:
     
  18. Dentista08

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    have you considered that each new test written gets harder and harder? For example what if someone took it junior year , got a low score, retook it a year later after graduation got a little better but not high enough, then retook again and did the same. So then that person takes some postbach classes or does a masters and decided to retake for the 4th time 3 years later, they shouldn't be allowed to?
    Not everyone is the same, I don't know your scores, but for some people it is harder than for others. If i dont get in this cycle i will need to retake again but it doesn't mean i cant pass dental school. Because 7-8 years ago, my score now was considered "high"
     
  19. Lopyswine

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    DAT has not gotten harder over the years. There is no evidence of this.
     
  20. dent2009

    dent2009 YEEE BOI
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    That's true. Isn't that crazy if you think about it? DATs are up, GPAs are significantly higher (e.g. in 2002, Pitt avg GPA was a 3.4. In 2007..a 3.7 and DAT went up from 17.96 to 19.95). Imagine what the #s were like 15, 20 years ago. Also 6, 7 years ago, the acceptance rate was over 60% (I believe 4000 seats for 6500 total applicants). Now it's been cut in half to about 30% while competition continues to get fierce. Also, Dean at one of the schools in the northeast mentioned that 15 years ago, they literally had to beg students to apply to their school because there simply wasn't enough applicants to fill the seats. Basically a shoe in back then.

    No wonder why general public think dent school is easy to get into and that it is a backup to med school. NOT ANYMORE!
     
  21. Ranelar

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    You guys seem to be contradicting yourselves when you claim the DAT is getting harder every year, yet average scores are getting higher. If everyone is getting higher scores, that's an indication that education is being catered to the student to make it EASIER to achieve, not harder. This is why I question whether someone who needs a fourth chance should become a dentist.

    Btw, I get that you're trying to say that it's more competitive today because everyone has high scores, and therefore things are "harder", but think about why everyone has high scores... Maybe because it's easier to accomplish? :p
     
  22. amalgamgrillz

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    Does anyone if you're still limited for the number of times you can take the Canada DAT, since we don't go through ADA up here?
     
  23. Danny289

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    :thumbup:
     
  24. Lopyswine

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    wrong. the scores aren't up because "the man" is making it easier to achieve higher numbers!

    Scores are up because we the students are motivated like never before. Dentistry was viewed as a backup and therefore the numbers were backup caliber. Dentistry is now almost as sought after as med school so the numbers have gone up.

    I am at UIC dental. The administration told us that lately the class averages for D1 year have gone up yearly. They told us this because apparently we are on pace for a record high D1 GPA. Here's the deal: the tests are standardized. We are taking essentially the same exam as D1s took 6 years ago. We are scoring better than them because we are more motivated (I'm talking large scale here).
     
  25. Ranelar

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    I'm not saying the tests have gotten any easier. What I'm saying is that the way students are able to prepare for the tests have made taking those tests easier. You call it motivation, I call it Kaplan courses with online databases with more sample questions than you could shake a stick at, plus dozens of practice tests that actually time you and force you to get into test mode instead of "flubbing" the last 15 minutes on an old written test when you're practicing by yourself because "you'll be ready on test day anyway". Replace Kaplan with Princeton or DAT Achiever or DAT Destroyer or whatever else. Within dental school, we again have more resources. Laptop computers are now common (if not required), multiple LCD screens are strategically placed in lecture halls, everyone is using powerpoint, there's more cross communication, etc.
     
  26. Dentista08

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    I think that the tests are getting harder BECAUSE people are more motivated and because they are getting higher scores. If the test was the same difficulty as it was 10 years ago, then everyone would be getting 30's, so to distribute the scores, they make it harder, ok not every year , but every 3-5 years. That's just my way of looking at it, not a fact. Also, 2 years ago, before they did the whole 3 times take thing, my Kaplan instructor told me that she would take the test every 1/2 year (for the past 5 years or so) and she said she noticed a difficulty increase.
     
  27. Sublimation

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    So wat if the test got harder? So wat if the Avg. GPA and DAT scores are increasing? Man has learned from the beginning of time to adapt to changes in his environment. If the DAT got harder, then study harder, if admission got more competative, then get off ur ***** and make urself a one of a kind candidate. Argueing over whether or not the test got easier or harder is mere semantics. Nothing in this life that comes to u without an ample amount of hard work is worth having.


    I think this thread should have ended here.
     
  28. doc toothache

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    Is there any reason to believe that the 4th time would be the charm?


    Not all ds consider the highest score.

    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=527651


    Unfortunately you did not take the DAT test 7-8 years ago. The suggestion that applicants who took the DAT 7-8 years ago would not do better today sounds a bit arrogant.
     
  29. Danny289

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    Doc, there was a thread from you about DAT retaking that showed just PAT score increase by reatking DAT over and over not other scores, I couldn't find it. It will be good to repost it here.
     
  30. Quattro DMD

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    Good point, plus the old dat from like 10-15 years ago had a carving portion (I think chalk, similar to the Canadian soap carving) that was replaced with PAT.
     
  31. doc toothache

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    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=391238
    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=408166
    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=453723

    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=400209
     
  32. Lopyswine

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  33. Danny289

    Danny289 Member
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    It is funny our health proffession advisor in school warned us from listening to experts in SDN!!! ( in SDN everbody is an expert!) :D
     
  34. Crew07

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    Lopyswine... can you please find something better to do with your time? You are ALWAYs posting meaningless stuff on SDN. We all would be better off without your 2 cents. You once told me that you get on SDN because it was a big help to you during your predental days, however you are not helping anyone. If you disagree read the comments that you have post to the OP.
     
  35. Lopyswine

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    dude its an internet forum. you need to relax.

    also,
    I am rereading my posts in this thread. What did I do that was so wrong? I posted what I thought to be the correct answer to the OP. I was unaware you could PETITION for an extra retake. Also, I posted MY OPINION, about retakes in general. I am a firm believer in this. I bet if you did some research you'd find two things:

    1) 4th time scores aren't an improvement over the previous 3 attempts
    2) Most matriculated students are not taking the DAT more than twice.

    Other posters said the DAT has gotten easier. I replied there is no evidence of this. TRUE. Doc toothache then showed the facts.

    I really don't understand why you have this problem with me. I answer PMs all day. I talk to undergrads. I mentor predental undergrads. I am not going to sugarcoat the answers. There is not substitute for hard work and high stats (believe me, I tried for YEARS to delude myself, in the end I had to just buckle down and get 3.8 in a MS and rock the DAT).
     
    #34 Lopyswine, Dec 17, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2008
  36. Sublimation

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    :thumbup:
     
  37. urDDS

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    Hey people thanks alot for your responses, let me add to this, most school wont even look at 4th time as I contacted them thats wa they said. However my home school told me to retake the DAT, does that mean they want me or just to let me go through hell and tell me that 4th time is not good.
     
  38. klutzy1987

    klutzy1987 StudyingSucks Letsgo Mets
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    Personally, I dont think scores are really up. The average for acceptance is way up because the number of applicants swelled so much. If they were going to accept in total say 4000 applicants, it used to be that to get 4000 people, you would have to accept scores starting at 18. An 18 would be considered a really good mark. Now that there are so many more applicants, but not many more seats they can be more choosy and accept only 20's. The average Dat score in general, accepted or not has remained pretty constant, I think it is around a 17.5 or something. Hasnt it been that way for a while. Also if you have 10 times as many people taking he test even if the test gets more difficult there are still going to lbe at least like 8 times as many high grades because there are 10 times as many applicants.
     
  39. Sbosu

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    I think your looking at this the wrong way. This does not mean that the test has gotten easier just because the average scores are higher. I'm not saying that the test has gotten harder, but it very well may have, i have no idea and that is not the question at hand. The average scores of people being accepted are higher, not the average of people who take it. Your score is based on how you did relative to everyone else taking it; where you fall percentage wise. So if more people are taking it there will be more people that scored >80th percentile (say hypothetically 100 people), whereas back in "the day" since less people were taking the exam maybe only 30 people were in the 80th percentile or above so the admissions had to look at people in the 60th percentile and above just to get the same amount of people. So now more people are getting higher scores because more people are taking the exam and since more people are taking the exam more people have to be in the higher percent, all while the number of seats to dental schools go relatively unchanged.
     
  40. urDDS

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    People please get back to my question and read my previous post, by the way ADEA called me now and said that I can take the exam 4th time, but after that I cant take it for 1 year.
     
  41. Danny289

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    As you said, many schools don't look at 4th DAT, maybe your state school is not one of those schools and they will consider your 4th DAT. By the way I had my 4th one last Tusday! I could increase my RC from 14 to 16 and my PAT from 15 to 17 and my TS from 20 to 21. I am happy for those improvement. good luck
     
    #40 Danny289, Dec 18, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  42. doc toothache

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    While the ratio of enrollees/applicant was certainly favorable for the applicants from the 1950 to early '60 and from early '80 to early '90s, there never was a period when there were not enough applicants on a national basis. It was no doubt true at some private institutions in the late 80's and early '90s partially at least due to the high cost of dental education and the unwillingness of applicants to acquire a large debt. That would explain the closure of Oral Roberts, Emory, Georgetown, Fairleigh Dickerson, Washington, Loyola and NWestern. Some, such as, Baylor managed to survive only because it became part of the TAMU system.
     
  43. DRHOYA

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    That is too bad that some of those schools had to close. Georgetown in particular had an excellent program. I know a few Dentists who graduated from their in the early 80's. Apparently they say the buildings are still there?
     
  44. Albuterol

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    I wonder if they would open their doors again, especially with the increase in applicants, greater interest in dentistry and the need of more graduating dentists.
     
  45. xhamburgersamx

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    I'm surprised so many schools closed in those times. The price of tuition probably drew a lot of people away but it was more the quality of applicants that drove these schools to close as their reputation and quality of students were diminishing quickly. A lot of schools had average GPA's of 3.0 (no joke). At this time, more schools need to open. In particular, a public school in Utah where many friends from BYU have complained about. Also California and NY could use a new public school as well.
     
  46. dent2009

    dent2009 YEEE BOI
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    oops
     
  47. somethinpositiv

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    what, were you planning to take it a 5th time..?

    good luck with that dude, but if it doesn't work out, dental hygiene pays pretty well too...
     
  48. theskibumjohnso

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    Finally someone who knows what they are talking about, there is so much BS on here it makes dental school almost seem impossible.
     
  49. IDoWhatIWant

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    You can take it a 4th time, but as mentioned, you have to go through some, not a bunch, red tapes. I know that a lot of schools don't look favorably on that, but according to Ms. Kathy Candito, you can take the DAT as many times as you want for UoP. They just want to see that you can get your scores up.
     
  50. doc toothache

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    It is interesting that the "diminishing" "quality of students" had a negative impact only on private ds and that it made more sense to close schools than weather the storm.
     

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