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Was told by most schools such as Temple, Tufts etc , that only 3 times and thats it, i wanted to retake 4th time in Jan. Im lossing hope.
Was told by most schools such as Temple, Tufts etc , that only 3 times and thats it, i wanted to retake 4th time in Jan. Im lossing hope.
Was told by most schools such as Temple, Tufts etc , that only 3 times and thats it, i wanted to retake 4th time in Jan. Im lossing hope.
Was told by most schools such as Temple, Tufts etc , that only 3 times and thats it, i wanted to retake 4th time in Jan. Im lossing hope.
ADA allows you to take it a 4th time under certain circumstances. Even if you are allowed, schools probably frown up it and may not even consider your application...
So you don't think that if you improved it would look good to dental schools? What about applicants who are applying second or third years in a row and need a higher score?
So you don't think that if you improved it would look good to dental schools? What about applicants who are applying second or third years in a row and need a higher score?
So you don't think that if you improved it would look good to dental schools? What about applicants who are applying second or third years in a row and need a higher score?
The harsh reality is that some schools only consider the first 3 scores. After that, they may not consider them. The schools are basically saying, there comes a point when you have to reevaluate whether dentistry's for you.
its not up to the schools. the ADA doesn't allow a 3rd retake. You take it 3 times TOTAL.
Not true.... you can petition for a retake. Also, if you really want to get into school move to Nevada. 100 instate applicants and they take more than half. Just have a strong gpa and good application.
my mistake I was going by the RULES of the ADA. I was unaware you could beg your way to a another retake.
Well maybe if you did your research before giving people bad advice you would have. And it's not about begging it's about not letting people keep taking the test in order to steal questions to make replica practice tests. If you're a dental student you should practice responsibility with the advice you give, you'll eventually get sued if you don't. So is the way of the medical profession.
have you considered that each new test written gets harder and harder? For example what if someone took it junior year , got a low score, retook it a year later after graduation got a little better but not high enough, then retook again and did the same. So then that person takes some postbach classes or does a masters and decided to retake for the 4th time 3 years later, they shouldn't be allowed to?is it a harsh reality or just reality. Personally I think you should only be allowed to take any standardized test twice. If you come in completely unprepared and you fail, you then know what you have to do to succeed. You are then given that second chance to do it right. If you mess it up again then you obviously didn't take it seriously enough.
If you've already taken the DAT 3 times and you can't get your score to where it needs to be, why would you think ANOTHER attempt would do the trick?
have you considered that each new test written gets harder and harder? For example what if someone took it junior year , got a low score, retook it a year later after graduation got a little better but not high enough, then retook again and did the same. So then that person takes some postbach classes or does a masters and decided to retake for the 4th time 3 years later, they shouldn't be allowed to?
Not everyone is the same, I don't know your scores, but for some people it is harder than for others. If i dont get in this cycle i will need to retake again but it doesn't mean i cant pass dental school. Because 7-8 years ago, my score now was considered "high"
....7-8 years ago, my score now was considered "high"
its not up to the schools. the ADA doesn't allow a 3rd retake. You take it 3 times TOTAL.
Well there sure is a lot of self-assured and harsh advice in this thread from people who aren't actually involved in admissions.
I am on an adcom, and I would say that if your DAT score is the problem with your application, then bringing it up will help you. This is true no matter how many times you've taken the DAT.
Unfortunately, there is a problem. The reason improving your DAT score is helpful is because the test is well designed and you are unlikely to increase your score w/o learning more or preparing better. So that is what you will have to do. You can't just keep retaking the test and expect things to improve. You need to take additional classes in the subject areas covered on the DAT, and you need to have an excellent plan for test preparation.
You guys seem to be contradicting yourselves when you claim the DAT is getting harder every year, yet average scores are getting higher. If everyone is getting higher scores, that's an indication that education is being catered to the student to make it EASIER to achieve, not harder. This is why I question whether someone who needs a fourth chance should become a dentist.
Btw, I get that you're trying to say that it's more competitive today because everyone has high scores, and therefore things are "harder", but think about why everyone has high scores... Maybe because it's easier to accomplish?
wrong. the scores aren't up because "the man" is making it easier to achieve higher numbers!
Scores are up because we the students are motivated like never before. Dentistry was viewed as a backup and therefore the numbers were backup caliber. Dentistry is now almost as sought after as med school so the numbers have gone up.
I am at UIC dental. The administration told us that lately the class averages for D1 year have gone up yearly. They told us this because apparently we are on pace for a record high D1 GPA. Here's the deal: the tests are standardized. We are taking essentially the same exam as D1s took 6 years ago. We are scoring better than them because we are more motivated (I'm talking large scale here).
I think that the tests are getting harder BECAUSE people are more motivated and because they are getting higher scores. If the test was the same difficulty as it was 10 years ago, then everyone would be getting 30's, so to distribute the scores, they make it harder, ok not every year , but every 3-5 years. That's just my way of looking at it, not a fact. Also, 2 years ago, before they did the whole 3 times take thing, my Kaplan instructor told me that she would take the test every 1/2 year (for the past 5 years or so) and she said she noticed a difficulty increase.wrong. the scores aren't up because "the man" is making it easier to achieve higher numbers!
Scores are up because we the students are motivated like never before. Dentistry was viewed as a backup and therefore the numbers were backup caliber. Dentistry is now almost as sought after as med school so the numbers have gone up.
I am at UIC dental. The administration told us that lately the class averages for D1 year have gone up yearly. They told us this because apparently we are on pace for a record high D1 GPA. Here's the deal: the tests are standardized. We are taking essentially the same exam as D1s took 6 years ago. We are scoring better than them because we are more motivated (I'm talking large scale here).
Well there sure is a lot of self-assured and harsh advice in this thread from people who aren't actually involved in admissions.
I am on an adcom, and I would say that if your DAT score is the problem with your application, then bringing it up will help you. This is true no matter how many times you've taken the DAT.
Unfortunately, there is a problem. The reason improving your DAT score is helpful is because the test is well designed and you are unlikely to increase your score w/o learning more or preparing better. So that is what you will have to do. You can't just keep retaking the test and expect things to improve. You need to take additional classes in the subject areas covered on the DAT, and you need to have an excellent plan for test preparation.
Was told by most schools such as Temple, Tufts etc , that only 3 times and thats it, i wanted to retake 4th time in Jan. Im lossing hope.
The harsh reality is that some schools only consider the first 3 scores. After that, they may not consider them. The schools are basically saying, there comes a point when you have to reevaluate whether dentistry's for you.
I am on an adcom, and I would say that if your DAT score is the problem with your application, then bringing it up will help you. This is true no matter how many times you've taken the DAT.
Because 7-8 years ago, my score now was considered "high"
Is there any reason to believe that the 4th time would be the charm?
Not all ds consider the highest score.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=527651
Unfortunately you did not take the DAT test 7-8 years ago. The suggestion that applicants who took the DAT 7-8 years ago would not do better today sounds a bit arrogant.
Unfortunately you did not take the DAT test 7-8 years ago. The suggestion that applicants who took the DAT 7-8 years ago would not do better today sounds a bit arrogant.
I think that the tests are getting harder BECAUSE people are more motivated and because they are getting higher scores. If the test was the same difficulty as it was 10 years ago, then everyone would be getting 30's, so to distribute the scores, they make it harder, ok not every year , but every 3-5 years. That's just my way of looking at it, not a fact. Also, 2 years ago, before they did the whole 3 times take thing, my Kaplan instructor told me that she would take the test every 1/2 year (for the past 5 years or so) and she said she noticed a difficulty increase.
Doc, there was a thread from you about DAT retaking that showed just PAT score increase by reatking DAT over and over not other scores, I couldn't find it. It will be good to repost it here.
thanks doc.
its always better to read data rather than opinions (even when its MY opinion )
Lopyswine... can you please find something better to do with your time? You are ALWAYs posting meaningless stuff on SDN. We all would be better off without your 2 cents. You once told me that you get on SDN because it was a big help to you during your predental days, however you are not helping anyone. If you disagree read the comments that you have post to the OP.
dude its an internet forum. you need to relax.
also,
I am rereading my posts in this thread. What did I do that was so wrong? I posted what I thought to be the correct answer to the OP. I was unaware you could PETITION for an extra retake. Also, I posted MY OPINION, about retakes in general. I am a firm believer in this. I bet if you did some research you'd find two things:
1) 4th time scores aren't an improvement over the previous 3 attempts
2) Most matriculated students are not taking the DAT more than twice.
Other posters said the DAT has gotten easier. I replied there is no evidence of this. TRUE. Doc toothache then showed the facts.
I really don't understand why you have this problem with me. I answer PMs all day. I talk to undergrads. I mentor predental undergrads. I am not going to sugarcoat the answers. There is not substitute for hard work and high stats (believe me, I tried for YEARS to delude myself, in the end I had to just buckle down and get 3.8 in a MS and rock the DAT).
wrong. the scores aren't up because "the man" is making it easier to achieve higher numbers!
Scores are up because we the students are motivated like never before. Dentistry was viewed as a backup and therefore the numbers were backup caliber. Dentistry is now almost as sought after as med school so the numbers have gone up.
I am at UIC dental. The administration told us that lately the class averages for D1 year have gone up yearly. They told us this because apparently we are on pace for a record high D1 GPA. Here's the deal: the tests are standardized. We are taking essentially the same exam as D1s took 6 years ago. We are scoring better than them because we are more motivated (I'm talking large scale here).
You guys seem to be contradicting yourselves when you claim the DAT is getting harder every year, yet average scores are getting higher. If everyone is getting higher scores, that's an indication that education is being catered to the student to make it EASIER to achieve, not harder. This is why I question whether someone who needs a fourth chance should become a dentist.
Btw, I get that you're trying to say that it's more competitive today because everyone has high scores, and therefore things are "harder", but think about why everyone has high scores... Maybe because it's easier to accomplish?
Hey people thanks alot for your responses, let me add to this, most school wont even look at 4th time as I contacted them thats wa they said. However my home school told me to retake the DAT, does that mean they want me or just to let me go through hell and tell me that 4th time is not good.
That's true. Isn't that crazy if you think about it? DATs are up, GPAs are significantly higher (e.g. in 2002, Pitt avg GPA was a 3.4. In 2007..a 3.7 and DAT went up from 17.96 to 19.95). Imagine what the #s were like 15, 20 years ago. Also 6, 7 years ago, the acceptance rate was over 60% (I believe 4000 seats for 6500 total applicants). Now it's been cut in half to about 30% while competition continues to get fierce. Also, Dean at one of the schools in the northeast mentioned that 15 years ago, they literally had to beg students to apply to their school because there simply wasn't enough applicants to fill the seats. Basically a shoe in back then.
No wonder why general public think dent school is easy to get into and that it is a backup to med school. NOT ANYMORE!
While the ratio of enrollees/applicant was certainly favorable for the applicants from the 1950 to early '60 and from early '80 to early '90s, there never was a period when there were not enough applicants on a national basis. It was no doubt true at some private institutions in the late 80's and early '90s partially at least due to the high cost of dental education and the unwillingness of applicants to acquire a large debt. That would explain the closure of Oral Roberts, Emory, Georgetown, Fairleigh Dickerson, Washington, Loyola and NWestern. Some, such as, Baylor managed to survive only because it became part of the TAMU system.
While the ratio of enrollees/applicant was certainly favorable for the applicants from the 1950 to early '60 and from early '80 to early '90s, there never was a period when there were not enough applicants on a national basis. It was no doubt true at some private institutions in the late 80's and early '90s partially at least due to the high cost of dental education and the unwillingness of applicants to acquire a large debt. That would explain the closure of Oral Roberts, Emory, Georgetown, Fairleigh Dickerson, Washington, Loyola and NWestern. Some, such as, Baylor managed to survive only because it became part of the TAMU system.
I wonder if they would open their doors again, especially with the increase in applicants, greater interest in dentistry and the need of more graduating dentists.
People please get back to my question and read my previous post, by the way ADEA called me now and said that I can take the exam 4th time, but after that I cant take it for 1 year.
Well there sure is a lot of self-assured and harsh advice in this thread from people who aren't actually involved in admissions.
I am on an adcom, and I would say that if your DAT score is the problem with your application, then bringing it up will help you. This is true no matter how many times you've taken the DAT.
Unfortunately, there is a problem. The reason improving your DAT score is helpful is because the test is well designed and you are unlikely to increase your score w/o learning more or preparing better. So that is what you will have to do. You can't just keep retaking the test and expect things to improve. You need to take additional classes in the subject areas covered on the DAT, and you need to have an excellent plan for test preparation.
I'm surprised so many schools closed in those times. The price of tuition probably drew a lot of people away but it was more the quality of applicants that drove these schools to close as their reputation and quality of students were diminishing quickly. A lot of schools had average GPA's of 3.0 (no joke). At this time, more schools need to open. In particular, a public school in Utah where many friends from BYU have complained about. Also California and NY could use a new public school as well.