DAT Done (September 2009)

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miedvied

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  1. Pre-Dental
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So, dear friends, the walk down this perilous road has come to an end.

Haha, I'm full of ****, but at least the exam's done.

I didn't take topscore before taking the DAT, so I can't mention previous scores for comparison. My CDP before taking the DAT tended to be 20/section when doing sections individually, 18 when doing the full exam - I never had a problem completing it in an hour.

To begin, the scores:

Perceptual 16
Math 19
Reading 25
Biology 23
GChem 23
OChem 20
TS 22
AA 22

Clearly, I'm in mourning for my perceptual score. This does seem to continue the trend of "CDP minus 2" that I noticed on SDN. I did ~4 full exams, and a lot of the "2500 X Questions" questions on CDP. More practice was clearly needed here and I'm kicking myself in the butt for not devoting more time to it. In hindsight, I should have done ~30 minutes/day. Instead, I really just crammed for it, since I was content with the 18-20 I was doing. CDP is still the best resource that I've seen, though I wish they had more "2500 X question" sections.

Math I prepped for with the Math destroyer and a princeton review GRE Math workbook. I think the math destroyer was sufficient, though possibly lopsided. I find that there were some "work it through" problems that required calculation (which is what the destroyer focuses on), but a lot more were problems of elegance. I think the key is to either solve the problem in a few seconds, or move on to the next one - most of them just required spotting the elegance. It helped that my precalc teacher in HS, a wonderful man by the name of Mr Lostal, would mark us wrong for correct but inelegant answers. Math, he would say, was a scalpel not a hammer. Destroyer seems the best prep for the calculation problems; I can't think of any good preps for the elegance problems.

Reading. I dislike S&D, and did not do it. I read through the entire passages, and then answered the questions, going back when needed. I finished this section with 20 minutes to spare. I guess it helps that I read quickly. I got piano, and see why it pissed people off: one of the questions was actually f'n nonsensical (I could have written essays supporting every one of the four answers, due to the extremely ambiguous nature of the word "related" in the context used).

I did not prepare for reading at all. Sorry, I know that doesn't help. I did hardcore reading prep when I was about 12 (for about a year), and that combined with a lifelong love of critical reading was pretty much sufficient with regard to reading. That said, however, I've taught people reading before and I can confidently say that one of *the best* resources for reading prep is Whimbey & Lochhead's books on critical problem solving (one of their newer books: http://www.amazon.com/Problem-Solving-Comprehension-Arthur-Whimbey/dp/0805832742). Their books require partners. I've worked through 2 whimbey books with a friend for his MCAT, and we got his reading from an 11 to a 14.

Read a lot! The best way to become a fast reader is to read a lot. The best way to become an attentive reader is to ask critical questions while you read. This is a wonderful life-long habit for being an intelligent and perceptive person; the fact that it helps on standardized tests is a bonus.

Biology. I used Crack DAT Science to identify weak spots. I read up in Campbell & Reeves on those weak spots. I also read through the entirety of the Cliff's AP Bio book a couple of times to establish a general review. I'd say the vast majority of my bio review came from doing the Destroyer time and again. It's priceless. Almost none of the bio questions on the DAT were new to me - they all had counterparts in the destroyer that prepared me. I was very delighted in that regard. I did get nailed on a phylogenetic tree question, though, and writing them up was in none of those resources. If I had to do it over again, I think I would throw in a chapter from an evolution or zoology text.

GChem. I reread my GChem book (the phenomenal Brown, LeMay, and Bursten) and did all of the end-of-chapter problems. This was extreme overkill, but I was being zealous. I don't think I'd recommend this to others in the future. I also relied very heavily on the Destroyer GChem. Destroyer covered everything that landed on the exam, so I think the heavy question practice from my gchem text was not needed, but it gave me confidence. I had a few set-up questions, some stuff on equilibria, basic Molarity questions, Hess' law, and so on. Basically, just know your concepts.

OChem. I prepped here by reviewing my OChem book (it's buried under a pile of papers right now, so, whatever it was named), my OChem notes, and the Destroyer. Again, going through the textbook was overkill, and the destroyer sang all the right notes. I did have an NMR problem *and* an IR problem, so I do recommend brushing up on spectroscopy.

I was a bit put off by the disparity of my OChem score and my preparations. By the end of the summer I was hitting 100% of my textbook practice tests (from the solutions manual) and about 95% of the destroyer problems (though obviously there was a familiarity bias there). Given that nothing new landed I was expecting high 20s. Obviously I'm not upset with my score, there, but I'm not very clear on how I could have better gone about translating OChem knowledge to OChem points.

Obviously the big downer here is the PAT, but in light of everything else, and my GPA (3.94 sciences, 4.06 non-science, according to AADSAS, majoring in biology), I don't think I'm going to concern myself with a retake.

I'd also like to take this opportunity to say thank-you. I got a lot of useful tips and a lot of helpful comments from the community here during my DAT prep cycle, and I'm sure that I would have been poorer for your absence. I appreciate your collective contribution and good will a great deal.
 
Nice scores, but like you said that PAT might hurt you. A lot of schools may cut you out of their application cycle for that. I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but with your nice, solid GPA and solid AA & TS they might just overlook that. Congrats and good luck with applying.
 
One more point on your PAT might make a whole lot difference. D@m$#, I hate when you short on only one part and everything else looks so great.

good luck.
 
Amazing RC score!
The book that you have listed, why does it require partners? Is it possible to study from it alone?
 
Nice scores, but like you said that PAT might hurt you. A lot of schools may cut you out of their application cycle for that. I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but with your nice, solid GPA and solid AA & TS they might just overlook that. Congrats and good luck with applying.


Yeah, I undoubtedly did harm with respect to my odds for Harvard & Columbia. Still, I'm feeling safe that I'll get into NYU or UMDNJ, which are both programs that I think will offer me the professional resources I'm looking for.

Thank you for the good wishes.
 
Amazing RC score!
The book that you have listed, why does it require partners? Is it possible to study from it alone?

It relies on a series of exercises in which one person verbally solves the problem, relating their thinking process step by step. Their partner's job is to nitpick their thinking process with questions. Just solving the problems by yourself won't hurt you, they're good critical thinking/pattern analysis questions, but skipping the process of criticizing your thinking techniques takes the value out of them.
 
I think you should concern yourself with a retake.
ADCOM do look at PAT a lot and your 16 does not look too impressive.
Although your other scores are impressive, the main focus of Dentist is looking at materials 3 dimensionally and your way below average on that section. It would be a different story if you scored 16 in QR, which ADCOM do not look into if you scored that low. I would call individual schools but I do not think you have a chance into Harvard or Columbia with a 16 in PAT. Never seen anyone get into those prestigious schools or any other top schools any year with that score in that section. You should retake if you want to get into top schools and bring that PAT score to 20+. I've seen students with PAT score of 20+ and other scores with 18 get into top schools but not PAT score of 16 and other scores 20+ get in IMO.
 
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To my understanding, PAT and RC stand as paired scores for a lot of admissions committees. Specifically, where other scores tend to reflect your basic preparation for dental school, PAT and RC are more indicative of your ability to succeed at the work being offered to you. I imagine that most people that blow PAT don't do so with the particular pairing of PAT and RC scores that I have, where one seems to indicate I'll be significantly challenged in my coursework and the other seems to indicate I'm well equipped for graduate work.

Not that the PAT won't hurt me, but in this particular instance it seems - according to the information I've garnered to date - to be fairly well mitigated.

I don't altogether disagree: my odds of Harvard have lowered dramatically. But then, that doesn't bother me over-much. I don't think a shot at Harvard would merit the time needed to retake the test given that, in all probability, I would end up having to wait until the next application cycle. At the end of the day most of what you get out of dental school is what you put into it, and I don't think Harvard or Columbia will be the only schools that can meet my needs. I'd be quite happy at Stonybrook, NYU, UPenn, or UMDNJ, and my odds for those schools remain quite competitive (I personally know one guy who got into Stony last semester with an application portfolio inferior to mine, including the same PAT score.)
 
ochem of 20 means u got about 4 questions wrong. when you're doing 100 questions in a row, getting 4 wrong in the last 30 that you knew that answer to isnt rare at all. it was probably just 4 stupid mistakes.
 
To my understanding, PAT and RC stand as paired scores for a lot of admissions committees. Specifically, where other scores tend to reflect your basic preparation for dental school, PAT and RC are more indicative of your ability to succeed at the work being offered to you. I imagine that most people that blow PAT don't do so with the particular pairing of PAT and RC scores that I have, where one seems to indicate I'll be significantly challenged in my coursework and the other seems to indicate I'm well equipped for graduate work.

Not that the PAT won't hurt me, but in this particular instance it seems - according to the information I've garnered to date - to be fairly well mitigated.

I don't altogether disagree: my odds of Harvard have lowered dramatically. But then, that doesn't bother me over-much. I don't think a shot at Harvard would merit the time needed to retake the test given that, in all probability, I would end up having to wait until the next application cycle. At the end of the day most of what you get out of dental school is what you put into it, and I don't think Harvard or Columbia will be the only schools that can meet my needs. I'd be quite happy at Stonybrook, NYU, UPenn, or UMDNJ, and my odds for those schools remain quite competitive (I personally know one guy who got into Stony last semester with an application portfolio inferior to mine, including the same PAT score.)

PAT is a better indicator than RC for determining a good dentist and ADCOM looks at it more. But, if you say it doesn't than whatever floats your boat.
 
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PAT is a better indicator than RC for determining a good dentist and ADCOM looks at it more. But, if you say it doesn't than whatever floats your boat.

lol yea, theres so many different answers given on his board, but people have to realize, they are coming from your peers, not individuals who actually do the admissions. everyone has their own opinions and so be it.

in MY opinion, if you had to choose between PAT or RC, PAT should be weighted 10x as much. If you look around, for PAT, its either you have it or you dont. the percentages justify that.

For RC, sure you could argue that it guages your capcity to absorb knowledge and whatnot. But really... the Reading "Comprension" on the DAT is more of a "Finding Waldo" game than a reading comprehension exam. The MCAT RC is a real exam, the DAT RC is a joke. Once again, the percentages justify that. It's by far the easiest section on the exam statistically if you look at the grading breakdown.
 
Actually, I make my statement regarding the PAT/RC score balancing based on information from a former NYU adcom.

But, as you say, on a board full of anonymous names, sourceless information, and zero accountability, you're welcome to be as skeptical as you like - there's probably no such thing as *too* skeptical.
 
lol yea, theres so many different answers given on his board, but people have to realize, they are coming from your peers, not individuals who actually do the admissions. everyone has their own opinions and so be it.

in MY opinion, if you had to choose between PAT or RC, PAT should be weighted 10x as much. If you look around, for PAT, its either you have it or you dont. the percentages justify that.

For RC, sure you could argue that it guages your capcity to absorb knowledge and whatnot. But really... the Reading "Comprension" on the DAT is more of a "Finding Waldo" game than a reading comprehension exam. The MCAT RC is a real exam, the DAT RC is a joke. Once again, the percentages justify that. It's by far the easiest section on the exam statistically if you look at the grading breakdown.

LOL "Finding Waldo" LOL I couldn't agree more. PAT is more heavily weighed than RC no question. You don't need to speak english well to be a good dentist but you need to have skills like looking 3-dimensionally that are displayed by the PAT score. All you do in RC is who finds the key words faster, nothing more.
 
Actually, I make my statement regarding the PAT/RC score balancing based on information from a former NYU adcom.

But, as you say, on a board full of anonymous names, sourceless information, and zero accountability, you're welcome to be as skeptical as you like - there's probably no such thing as *too* skeptical.

its not called being skeptical, its called being smart and not gullible. Those that call it "too" skeptical are internet child predators.
 
I don't altogether disagree: my odds of Harvard have lowered dramatically. But then, that doesn't bother me over-much. I don't think a shot at Harvard would merit the time needed to retake the test given that, in all probability, I would end up having to wait until the next application cycle. At the end of the day most of what you get out of dental school is what you put into it, and I don't think Harvard or Columbia will be the only schools that can meet my needs. I'd be quite happy at Stonybrook, NYU, UPenn, or UMDNJ, and my odds for those schools remain quite competitive (I personally know one guy who got into Stony last semester with an application portfolio inferior to mine, including the same PAT score.)

LOL stonybrook is more difficult to get into than columbia and might be more difficult than harvard. Pretty much everyone in my class was accepted to Columbia (one of the worst schools in the country btw). Yeah you can get into any school with those grades depending on how you come off on the interviews, but SBU values PAT more than like any school in the country, i think they had the 2nd highest pat average of incoming students in the country. The only school from the ones above you are a shoo in for is NYU. The others you will need to impress on the interviews.
 
Congrats on your scores!

You mentioned that you did a lot of the "2500 x problems" from CDP.
Were any of those Math problems from the "Crack the Math" section of CDP?
If so, you mentioned that you also did Destroyer Math. Are you talking about the Math section within DAT Destroyer, or are you talking about the actual Math Destroyer manual?
I'm trying to gauge whether or not to add the Math Destroyer manual to my CDP "Crack the Math" studies.

Thanks,

2thDMD
 
LOL stonybrook is more difficult to get into than columbia and might be more difficult than harvard. Pretty much everyone in my class was accepted to Columbia (one of the worst schools in the country btw). Yeah you can get into any school with those grades depending on how you come off on the interviews, but SBU values PAT more than like any school in the country, i think they had the 2nd highest pat average of incoming students in the country. The only school from the ones above you are a shoo in for is NYU. The others you will need to impress on the interviews.

I didn't apply here, but am curious what makes you say that??
 
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