Data regarding press ganey...

[TrumpetDoc]

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Anyone know if there is any real, independent, data regarding correlations with press ganey's? In particular I would like to see scores matched up with productivity.
We know that spending "time" with patients not just during the H&P but keeping them informed and such is a BIG key...but I am noticing that some of the "really high achievers" are taking a lot of their work "home" and/or staying very late after the shift to dictate etc. And on the oher end, some top performers are NOT productive and/or cherry pick, A LOT.

Would such data really change anything, probably not. But would be nice to be able to see it.

If no data out there to this effect, would be good to do...any takers to partner up?🙂

 

[southerndoc]

Until we all band together and reject Press-Ganey type surveys, we must continue to be slave to them.

I think they serve a function in showing trends and trying to keep patients happy, but docs shouldn't be fired over bad ratings by patients.

At my shop, it's a lot of trouble separating the midlevel scores from the docs who supervised them. We have some surveys coded to docs who weren't even working a particular day a patient was seen, and just yesterday I got a bad score on the provider section that said "the x-ray transporter was very rude" but later on it said "Dr. southerndoc was amazing and very friendly."

Funny how I got all 1's on the survey for the provider section, when their comments should've at the very least put me as all 4's.

Patients get confused with filling out the surveys. Yet with all the problems, we still hold docs accountable.

If an employed doc gets fired over a Press-Ganey, he or she may have grounds to sue the employer. Independent contractors are pretty much SOL.

 

[la gringa]

southerndoc -

i've had similar issues - complaints about nurse/IV sticks especially. also people complain about LOS when they have no basis to judge what was done, that drives me NUTS.

there's no incentive to return them, so you get all sorts of outliers and no true idea of what most patients think.

that being said - i think i'm pretty good at PS, and my #'s reflect it, so can't complain there. personality and being raised in a nice and polite region sure do help 😉

 

[deleted6669]

http://www.carechex.com/media/studies.aspx
real study shows an inverse relationship between patient satisfaction and quality of care.makes sense. give in to demands for narcs and abx for viruses and you get better scores. one of our docs to prove a point went from worst patient scores to best in 1 yr by giving everyone percocet who asked for it.

 

[TrumpetDoc]

Seriously,
Let get a few together to put together a valid survey and get some more data out there.
I mean, as hopeless as it seems, at least we can all go down with having put input $0.02.


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[deleted109597]

The problem is, most hospitals really don't give a damn about what the ED docs say. That's why they can throw around the contract bids, because they just want a way to make people happy.
Try and point out that it doesn't make sense for the lab to stick a patient a separate time from an IV stick, and they argue that "nurses are too important to draw labs." Patients do not like being stuck multiple times, but they're dissatisfied because of the doctors.
Try and point out that the group that we satisfy the most, the admitted patient, doesn't even have data collected. You identify a STEMI, or an aneurysm, or anything else that saves a life and just so happens to warrant an admission, and that person is lost to followup as far as PG is concerned.
Try and point out that things out of your control, such as radiology, or the fact that environmental didn't clean the urinal out of the sink, or the blood spots on the floor, all can affect your score, and you're ignored.
Until we start forcing the people making the policies to actually be in the department and address the complaints when they happen, they just don't get it. Too many people at that level never worked in an ED, and don't understand how it works "in the PIT."

 

[TrumpetDoc]

The problem is, most hospitals really don't give a damn about what the ED docs say. That's why they can throw around the contract bids, because they just want a way to make people happy.
Try and point out that it doesn't make sense for the lab to stick a patient a separate time from an IV stick, and they argue that "nurses are too important to draw labs." Patients do not like being stuck multiple times, but they're dissatisfied because of the doctors.
Try and point out that the group that we satisfy the most, the admitted patient, doesn't even have data collected. You identify a STEMI, or an aneurysm, or anything else that saves a life and just so happens to warrant an admission, and that person is lost to followup as far as PG is concerned.
Try and point out that things out of your control, such as radiology, or the fact that environmental didn't clean the urinal out of the sink, or the blood spots on the floor, all can affect your score, and you're ignored.
Until we start forcing the people making the policies to actually be in the department and address the complaints when they happen, they just don't get it. Too many people at that level never worked in an ED, and don't understand how it works "in the PIT."

100% true, and we all know it.
But, if not only therapeutic for us as a EM workforce, we should be having the discussion, and let the true feelings of those who are chosen to save lives and staff the ED be known irrefutably.


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[Groove]

Guys... the absolute disgusting irony of all this is that Dr. Irwin Press, PhD is an anthropologist, and Dr. Rodney Ganey, PhD is a doctorate in research statistics and analysis. Neither of these two illustrious individuals who have so much sway on our MEDICAL specialty were ever, EVER medical physicians.

That is the irony of the Press-Ganey satisfaction survey. Two individuals that could come up with a satisfaction evaluation system that has such a profound impact on emergency medicine, yet have no concept of what it's like to not only be an emergency physician in general, but no concept of what it's like to practice medicine at all.

Feel like laughing or crying?

 

[DrMom]

Not data, but I like this comparison.
http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2012/01/presidential-voting-and-press-ganey/

 

[ensuii]

How pervasive are the PG surveys presently? Is it rather uncommon to work somewhere where they aren't used?

 

[GeneralVeers]

They are almost everywhere and spreading quickly like the plague. They will wipe out all ER doctors eventually because there is no cure.

 

[Hamhock]

How pervasive are the PG surveys presently? Is it rather uncommon to work somewhere where they aren't used?

There even in our publically-funded teaching hospital. I learned this after being a "patient" s/p needlestick.

Of course, I have never heard about this from the directors and it is not part of our promotion or other evaluation - yet!

HH

 

[DrRobert]

Sorry to bring up an old thread. I occasionally poke my head in the EM forum and have been hearing more about Press Ganey.

I don't know much about it, but how did this get started? Who allowed this to become part of a physician's evaluation?

A patient's quality of care and happiness with that care have nothing to do with each other. Why haven't EM physicians gotten together and gotten rid of this ridiculous system?

I honestly can't believe there hasn't been some sort of revolution over this.

 

[Birdstrike]

.

 

[WilcoWorld]

It's also now required by ABEM for continued board certification.

We ought to fight this, but we need to do so at a national level.

 

[docB]

Sorry to bring up an old thread. I occasionally poke my head in the EM forum and have been hearing more about Press Ganey.

I don't know much about it, but how did this get started? Who allowed this to become part of a physician's evaluation?

A patient's quality of care and happiness with that care have nothing to do with each other. Why haven't EM physicians gotten together and gotten rid of this ridiculous system?

I honestly can't believe there hasn't been some sort of revolution over this.

It got started because hospital administrators are not medical and don't have a clue what good, appropriate care is. They were hungry for metrics that they could understand.

In came Press Ganey, Gallup, etc. saying that they would give them numbers they could understand. So what to measure? Medicine is too inexact and patients are too different to measure anything substantive about their care. Look what a disaster the "Core Measures" have been. But they can measure opinion. They've been doing that for years for everything from politicians to soda pop.

But why should the administrators care? So the pollsters created the back story. They told the administrators that they need to care because satisfied customers will return and spend more money. They will choose the hospital they like the most for their highly reimbursing, pre approved elective procedures.

So the phenomenon persists because of the lure of making the incomprehensible understandable for non medical administrators and of that "knowledge" translating into more money.

The reason that EPs can't effectively fight this is that we are not the customers. They didn't sell this stuff to us. They sold it to all the hospitals. So we are at a great disadvantage in this fight.