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- Oct 1, 2014
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Darlin is "southern thing..." Dont be such a drama queen about it.
A southern sexist thing... Maybe some sensitivity training is in order?
Darlin is "southern thing..." Dont be such a drama queen about it.
OMG, then do not get one... Kinda simple!
Oh wait... I just noticed you are VA psychologist. Nevermind. It all makes sense now! lmao.
A southern sexist thing... Maybe some sensitivity training is in order?
Oh wait... I just noticed you are VA psychologist. Nevermind. It all makes sense now! lmao.
This degree program is attempting to create a market where one does not currently exist. There are better options already out there, so trying to carve out a new area is not going to be very helpful to the public nor the students completing the additional training. There is no need to re-invent the wheel by creating a program with no track record that requires less training and is not recognized as equivalent in the eyes of the states (or licensure would be available for the specific type of program.)
Hi Everyone,
I'm currently having a problem. I'm in the first semester of the DBH program at ASU and I absolutely hate it. The lack of academic standards is shocking and certain professors are incredibly unprofessional. Is anyone else in this program? Am I the only one who feels this way? I am considering leaving the program. I was interested in integrated care, but it doesn't seem like this program is legit. Any feedback or help is appreciated.
Thanks
The DBH program at ASU is very legit. It is relatively new and has an innovative concept of training post licensure therapists in the unique characteristics of integrated care. They have over 300 enrolled students at this time with over 700 graduates. The degree is not fully online, but requires a two semester internship (one year), dissertation (called a Culminating Project with reserch and defense) and has two tracks, clinical and managment. The program prepares licensed persons (in the clinical track) to practice in primary care settings. It was never intended as a licensure track program - and does not accept anyone who is not already licensed in a mental health field. The advantage of this degree is that it is from a very credible university and the training is specific to a type of clinical practice. Many people who have attempted to discredit this degree do so in attempting to compare it to other forms of clinical training - and in doing so demonstrate that they do not know much about the purpose and intent of the DBH training program at ASU or other institutions which are now developing DBH programs as a compliment to masters level clinical training programs. Additionally, DBH distractors and naysayers demonstrate little understanding of how integrated behavioral care is evolving (some may say taking over) in the changing landscape of behavioral health. Many masters level therapists want to complete doctoral level training but do not need or desire to repeat prior clinical experiences or learning. For those individuals this training is ideally suited. Lastly, many employers are now looking at the DBH as a clinicial managment capstone degree for key leadership positions within clinics, hospitals and other types of facilities. In 5-10 years this unique degree will be infiltrated throughout the mental health professions and will be unaquestionably respected - but as anything new or innovative, it too is subject to initial speculation on its utility and value (remember the talk aboaut the Psy.D?). However the DBH is already proving its value in the U.S. and abroad.Hi Everyone,
I'm currently having a problem. I'm in the first semester of the DBH program at ASU and I absolutely hate it. The lack of academic standards is shocking and certain professors are incredibly unprofessional. Is anyone else in this program? Am I the only one who feels this way? I am considering leaving the program. I was interested in integrated care, but it doesn't seem like this program is legit. Any feedback or help is appreciated.
Thanks
They have over 700 graduates with a doctorate in handful of years? Sounds legit. e_eThe DBH program at ASU is very legit. It is relatively new and has an innovative concept of training post licensure therapists in the unique characteristics of integrated care. They have over 300 enrolled students at this time with over 700 graduates. The degree is not fully online, but requires a two semester internship (one year), dissertation (called a Culminating Project with reserch and defense) and has two tracks, clinical and managment. The program prepares licensed persons (in the clinical track) to practice in primary care settings. It was never intended as a licensure track program - and does not accept anyone who is not already licensed in a mental health field. The advantage of this degree is that it is from a very credible university and the training is specific to a type of clinical practice. Many people who have attempted to discredit this degree do so in attempting to compare it to other forms of clinical training - and in doing so demonstrate that they do not know much about the purpose and intent of the DBH training program at ASU or other institutions which are now developing DBH programs as a compliment to masters level clinical training programs. Additionally, DBH distractors and naysayers demonstrate little understanding of how integrated behavioral care is evolving (some may say taking over) in the changing landscape of behavioral health. Many masters level therapists want to complete doctoral level training but do not need or desire to repeat prior clinical experiences or learning. For those individuals this training is ideally suited. Lastly, many employers are now looking at the DBH as a clinicial managment capstone degree for key leadership positions within clinics, hospitals and other types of facilities. In 5-10 years this unique degree will be infiltrated throughout the mental health professions and will be unaquestionably respected - but as anything new or innovative, it too is subject to initial speculation on its utility and value (remember the talk aboaut the Psy.D?). However the DBH is already proving its value in the U.S. and abroad.
Can you indicate how the DBH is proving its value objectively?
Just to clarify, I'm one of those detractors, who happens to work in an integrated behavioral health care context every day.
Not sure if it is 700 or more- but they (ASU) graduates persons three times per year with about 35-50 each time (estimate). Halfare clinicl and half are management. They are taught by different faculty. So the clinical graduates probably number in the 20-30 per semester. I believe Boston University now has a DBH program, and Nicholas Cummings (who started the Psy.D degree program years ago, just started a new institute that will eventually grant DBH degrees in managment and clinical. It is logical that other universities will or could develp DBH training programs - as it makes ssense to do so from a need/interest and university income perspective.They have over 700 graduates with a doctorate in handful of years? Sounds legit. e_e
Additionally, DBH distractors and naysayers demonstrate little understanding of how integrated behavioral care is evolving (s0ome may say taking over) in the changing landscape of behavioral health.
Many masters level therapists want to complete doctoral level training but do not need or desire to repeat prior clinical experiences or learning.
So basically what people learn through practica/internship/postdoc in doctoral programs already, but in a new, unproven and more expensive way.DBH teaches "integrated clinical skills" , that is how to practice clinical mental health at the elbow of primary care medicine
I am not clear why anyone would object to a licensed mental health practitioner seeking additional specific training in an emerging element of clinical services - except, of course, if they perceived it as a threat.
It is logical that other universities will or could develp DBH training programs - as it makes sense to do so from a need/interest and university income perspective.
I don't think you understood the question. You said that the degree is "proving its value." By what metric can you make the claim that it is worth the cost? What outcomes are you referring to? What specific data?
It's not a threat to us, we're already trained in this field. We do, however, object to some students getting taken in by dubious claims and spending money needlessly. If you can show me data "proving" that this degree does something, I may be willing to reconsider.
The detractors here are people actually working in the field. I'm going to take their word over someone who has drunk the DBH Kool-Aid and/or has a vested financial interest in supporting this institution.
You're really not going to win over anyone here with that argument - especially given its questionable logic. It seems to indicate a pretty questionable understanding of doctoral vs. master's level programs, among other problems. Sounds like yet another way to try and backdoor your way into a higher position without getting the proper training.
So basically what people learn through practica/internship/postdoc in doctoral programs already, but in a new, unproven and more expensive way.
People here take a vested interest in maintaining quality in the field and stopping the spread of disinformation and the promotion of programs with questionable utility. I see a lot of conjecture and anecdotes but not a lot data in your arguments. And again, 300 students in a program? That's making Alliant et. al. seem downright intimate.
It would be logical if you could provide some sort of data (beyond the tuition dollars being raked in) supporting your argument. So far you've responded to criticisms of your pure conjecture with yet more conjecture.
So...in other words, there is no data on the value, despite having over 700 graduates?
So...when ppl ask for data to support a new degree, that is due to jealousy and fear?I understand that such change can be very threatening - but the momentum cannot be stopped by objections grounded in professional jealously and fear.
The DBH teaches "integrated clinical skills" , that is how to practice clinical mental health at the elbow of primary care medicine. Objectively, proximity matters and carries with it a skillset that is not currently offered in traditional clinical training programs. The healthcare industry is demanding more integration of services and the DBH simply formalizes that interest in a degree program. Primary care medicine and practitioners are using more masters level therapist every day (within their own office and clinical settings) and many of those therapists want additional training in how to practice alongside primary care providers. The DBH provides that specific training in a doctoral level educational framework. Seems to me that is very objective! I am not clear why anyone would object to a licensed mental health practitioner seeking additional specific training in an emerging element of clinical services - except, of course, if they perceived it as a threat.
I suggest you ask the graduates if they feel duped by the program. The ones I know do not. If you are so secure, and graduates you ask are pleased with what they got for thier money - why are you so interested? Maybe those jobs you say you have are not as secure (to you) as your propose?You can play off the "people are just feeling threatened" card all you want to deflect posting any real information. The reality is, many of us on here are already professionals. Many in good six figure jobs with great benefits. We're not threatened, no one is coming for our jobs anytime soon. We are concerned about students out there who do not know any better and fall for marketing schemes. It's happened before and it will keep happening. So far, I have seen zero objective data that this degree serves any real purpose other than providing income for the university. You keep making wild claims, but have nothing to back it up with from a data standpoint. For a healthcare model that stresses empirically supported treatments and measurable outcomes, I find this deeply troubling.
The fact you see this as "competition" proves that the concept of threat is in play. It's not a competition, unless you perceive it as such.'except, of course, if they perceived it as a threat.'
I'll look forward to meeting a 'DBH' 'at the elbow of primary care medicine'--or anywhere else, for that matter--and enjoying the opportunity to compete with them and their 'skillset that is not currently offered in traditional clinical training programs.'
I'm you're huckleberry...that's just my game.
This is the most sophisticated trolling I've seen in a long time.
The fact you see this as "competition" proves that the concept of threat is in play. It's not a competition, unless you perceive it as such.
The fact you see this as "competition" proves that the concept of threat is in play. It's not a competition, unless you perceive it as such.
2. They don't know what they don't know.
ohhhhhhh boyNicholas Cummings (who started the Psy.D degree program years ago, just started a new institute that will eventually grant DBH degrees in managment and clinical.
I am also personally sick to death of the 'administrator/bureaucrat/non-provider/efficiency-expert/full-of-#%$#/socialized-psychopath' type that has infested and overrun healthcare systems (especially in government organizations). The type of program we have been discussing appears to be a breeding ground for those types who generally have nothing better to do than create meaningless 'bean-counting' and busywork policies/procedures that do nothing but get in the way of a competent practitioner trying to provide quality evidence-based care to their clients/patients. This is one of the major reasons why the VA, for example, can't keep primary care providers (I've talked to plenty of them prior to them leaving). They kinda resent the gibbering hordes of uninformed, uneducated, lazy, busybody control-freak types who constantly are looking over their shoulders and shoving telescopes up their asses 24/7 analyzing and pestering them about their 'productivity' (according to the RVU's) while the friggin secretary (adminstrative assistant, excuse me) is busy filing her nails, facebooking her boyfriend, on break, or otherwise screwing off and can't be fired because she has union protection.
From their web page:
"We integrate research, training, and consultation to build healthy VA organizations"
Yeah, right.
I recently Googled 'Mental Health Treatment Coordinator, VA' to try to see if there had been any professional discussions among provider regarding this new role that VA has given us...
What I came across were the .pdf files with the full texts of responses from providers from the Mental Health Provider Surveys (from 2012 and 2013). It's now 2015. It was extremely disheartening to see articulate comment after articulate comment from multiple mental health providers in VA on these wonderful surveys saying the same things over and over (with perfect reliability) in 2012, 2013, (I assume 2014 too). The growth of the needless paperwork/checklists, focus on kissing ass upwards in the organization over valuing quality care for patients, etc. Now, as far as I know, no action has been taken (or even pretended to be taken) in response to these same criticisms and complaints year after year. 2015 will be no different.
"We integrate research, training, and consultation to build healthy VA organizations"
I'm sure they'll get right on that.
The DBH offers a pathway for systemic change that is long needed and the DBH students seem to be discovering that there are important professional trainings that can enhance their employability just like all other medical professions - - and that they are cost effective and beneficial personally and professionally.
It is amazing that anyone could, or would find a rationale, to defend the VA on its service record.
Go look at the clinical outcomes data that exists and say that genuinely without trying to sell something. The VA is very far from a perfect system, but it outperforms the private sector on most clinical outcomes data collected.
It is amazing that anyone could, or would, find a rationale to defend the VA on its service record. Worse yet, hold out the VA as a model of effectiveness and health practice standards. The VA is a tragic and sad place for patients and employees. It may even be an outdated care model that needs to be replaced. The new healthcare laws and expansion of care for veterans outside the VA is on the verge of getting much bigger. The deflection of veterans to civilian (non federal employee) healthcare providers may speed that process along. The idea of effeciency has clearly evaded the VA and is only exceeded by its neglect and delay in the teatment of veterans. Some say it is corrupt - yet there are those in this forum that defend it. Incredible.
The new healthcare laws and expansion of care for veterans outside the VA is on the verge of getting much bigger.
There are lots of VA psychologist on here, and of course we take pride in our mission and our organization, whilst also critique/bemoaning its many flaws. If you wanna bitch and moan, be my guest. But the people that actually maker it better wont me you. It will be us.
Here at the Institute for Everyone can be a Doctor, we are using 21st century technology to change the way we are preparing the newest healthcare providers for the evolving marketplace. So don't send us your checks or money orders to pay your tuition, we will get the cash directly from Sallie Mae. We will take care of all of the messy paperwork and hassles and we will absolutely guarantee that you can still practice under your existing license as an LPC, LCSW, or MFT so long as you maintain an active license to practice in your state, and you will now be able to call yourself a doctor, too.
I wonder how much money I could make doing this.
The VA has tried contracting with private practice psychologist due to laws restricting wait list. Unfortunately, the paperwork required for payment is overly cumbersome and reimbursement for services may be denied. Many Private Practitioners will not work with the VA because of record of nonpayment. VA Psychologist may have different opinion if they were having their pay checks with held.