DEA Number

[epidural man]

As an anesthesiologists, do I technically need a DEA number?

I have never written a prescription as an anesthesiologist for outpatient use. It is not a requirement to write non-controlled prescriptions.

But do you need one to GIVE a scheduled drug intra-operatively?

This is what I could find by the DEA folks...

"The DEA strongly opposes the use of a DEA registration number for any purpose other than the one for which it was intended, to provide certification of registration in transactions involving controlled substances". (In other words, don't give out your DEA number for any other reason other than writing a controlled..instead use your NPI.)

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[NICMAN]

If a controlled substance passes through your hands then you need a DEA #. Even if you are only using it for animal research. That is my understanding.

 

[San Marzano]

As an anesthesiologists, do I technically need a DEA number?

I have never written a prescription as an anesthesiologist for outpatient use. It is not a requirement to write non-controlled prescriptions.

But do you need one to GIVE a scheduled drug intra-operatively?

This is what I could find by the DEA folks...

"The DEA strongly opposes the use of a DEA registration number for any purpose other than the one for which it was intended, to provide certification of registration in transactions involving controlled substances". (In other words, don't give out your DEA number for any other reason other than writing a controlled..instead use your NPI.)

I’m not following your logic. Why would you not need DEA number to have unlimited access to narcotics 24/7 and the ability to dole them out at any time you deem clinically relevant?

 

[epidural man]

Because a DEA license is so the DEA can track controlled substance prescriptions. They don't track what happens in the OR. I'm not following YOUR logic.

 

[epidural man]

If a controlled substance passes through your hands then you need a DEA #. Even if you are only using it for animal research. That is my understanding.

That would be my superficial understanding as well. However, I am not sure that is true and since heresay is FILLED with half-truths and complete non-truths, I was wondering what the ACTUAL truth was.

Because if I write a controlled substance prescription, I don't ever have a drug pass through my hands at all. Do pharmacist - who actually have the drug pass through there hands, have DEA numbers?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

That would be my superficial understanding as well. However, I am not sure that is true and since heresay is FILLED with half-truths and complete non-truths, I was wondering what the ACTUAL truth was.

Because if I write a controlled substance prescription, I don't ever have a drug pass through my hands at all. Do pharmacist - who actually have the drug pass through there hands, have DEA numbers?

Aren't you basically prescribing it if you give it to someone in pre-op or the OR, just skipping the pharmacist step?

 

[epidural man]

Aren't you basically prescribing it if you give it to someone in pre-op or the OR, just skipping the pharmacist step?

Probably.

But that's the question.

 

[lord_jeebus]

In my area there was an anesthesiologist/pain doctor who lost his DEA license but kept working in the OR for a few years before retiring. I don't know if it's legal but the hospital allowed it.

 

[epidural man]

In my area there was an anesthesiologist/pain doctor who lost his DEA license but kept working in the OR for a few years before retiring. I don't know if it's legal but the hospital allowed it.

As a pain doc, I would LOVE to not have a DEA license (except Lyrica is controlled).

 

[epidural man]

Please note the DEA language above ("transactions involving controlled substances"). What does a transaction mean? I suspect me mixing alfentanil in propopfol (my way of doing anesthesia these days...) isn't a transaction.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Yeah, he kept doing injections. But he could tell his patients that he was not allowed to prescribe opioids. He told me that the post-DEA years were the best of his career.

 

[pgg]

Because a DEA license is so the DEA can track controlled substance prescriptions. They don't track what happens in the OR. I'm not following YOUR logic.

I totally agree with you. I don't think we should be required to have a DEA registration. But every hospital and surgicenter where I've ever been credentialed (outside of the military - which has no fee institutional numbers) has required it.

It's what, $700 or something down the rathole every 3 years? Rats got to eat too, I guess.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

In my area there was an anesthesiologist/pain doctor who lost his DEA license but kept working in the OR for a few years before retiring. I don't know if it's legal but the hospital allowed it.

Institutional DEA, kinda like what residents will sometimes use?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

As a pain doc, I would LOVE to not have a DEA license (except Lyrica is controlled).

You can pick what schedule your registration covers. Give up 2 and 3. 4 and 5 will cover Lyrica and the occasional ativan for procedures if you do that sort of thing.

 

[epidural man]

I totally agree with you. I don't think we should be required to have a DEA registration. But every hospital and surgicenter where I've ever been credentialed (outside of the military - which has no fee institutional numbers) has required it.

It's what, $700 or something down the rathole every 3 years? Rats got to eat too, I guess.

PGG - That is exactly why I ask.

I have the free DEA from the military hospital - but I also moonlight doing anesthesia elsewhere. I have NOT purchased the DEA because the surgicenters and LA COUNTY place (where I sometimes also moonlight) don't seem to mind the fee exempt number, but I have started to wonder if I am in the clear.

 

[pgg]

Ooh, I'd be careful about using the .mil joint's no fee institutional number for moonlighting at some civilian place. Sounds like the sort of thing some DEA clown and .mil sweater commando would get all up in a tizzy about.

 

[deleted162650]

My hospital requires the real deal DEA number.

 

[NICMAN]

All I know is that I needed a Schedule IV DEA license to give chloral hydrate to sedate rats for research. the DEA people would visit our lab every 2 years or so and we had to keep meticulous records of the dispensing and acquisition of the drugs to show them.

I suspect anybody who does anything with a controlled substance (prescribe--especially, dispense, sell, etc.) has to have one. It may be possible to operate under an institutional DEA license, but somebody still has to have a DEA license if a controlled substance is used or ordered in any way.

 

[deleted171991]

In my area there was an anesthesiologist/pain doctor who lost his DEA license but kept working in the OR for a few years before retiring. I don't know if it's legal but the hospital allowed it.

He probably worked under the hospital's/department's DEA number. It's allowed for hospital settings only. That's why some of us don't have a DEA number (but it depends on the hospital).

 

[Aether2000]

If you dispense, prescribe, administer, or order scheduled drugs under the Controlled Substance Act, you must have a DEA or operate under the auspices of an institutional DEA. Most hospitals will not permit you to use their DEA number unless you are in a residency training program. The rules from this point on become a bit more technical. If you prescribe, administer, or order controlled substances be given (e.g. hospital anesthesiologist ordering opioids for the recovery room patients), you need only one DEA number per state or can transfer your DEA number to another state if you are practicing in the other state for a long enough period. However if you are practicing in more than one state frequently, you cannot transfer the DEA, and need a separate DEA number for a different state. If you dispense controlled substances (patient takes physical possession of the controlled substance at your institution) at more than one location, even if in the same city, you must have a separate DEA number for each location.