Deaf Surgeon?

[garo]

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Can you still be a surgeon if you are totally deaf?

 

[DEAF]

I hope you guys do not mind me bumping this. I would like to know your opinions of a deaf person being a surgeon.
I am actually deaf and currently sophomore in high school.

 

[Habeed]

The answer's pretty obvious, but I'm going to ask the obvious corollary question :

Do you think that you should be allowed to be a surgeon, in a field where mistakes routinely harm and occasionally kill patients? Even if you find ways of compensating, you won't be as good a surgeon as someone who can hear, all other factors held equal, because people can't communicate with you while your eyes are on the surgical field. What if you were moving your scalpel towards the common bile duct like you were about to cut it? If you could hear, someone could warn you.

Do you think you should be allowed to be an airline pilot?

An air traffic controller?

A soldier?

The common element in all of these examples is that other people's lives depend on you doing your job correctly in a time sensitive manner in all of these careers. While it's plausible a deaf person could compensate, why should society risk other people's lives to find out?

 

[asmallchild]

http://www.ada.gov/

 

[Habeed]

http://www.ada.gov/

ADA calls for "reasonable accommodation". Are you arguing that this falls under that?

 

[ESU_MD]

of course you can be a surgeon-

alot of surgeons dont listen to what anyone has to say anyway, therefore being functionally deaf

 

[beaverfetus]

I hope you guys do not mind me bumping this. I would like to know your opinions of a deaf person being a surgeon.
I am actually deaf and currently sophomore in high school.

Probably possible (just about anything is) but extremely difficult. I just talked to a residency director of internal medicine about this very topic. His program had lots of trouble teaching a deaf trainee procedures because while her lip reading was extremely good, surgical masks make this impossible. They even looked into buying clear masks but the only manufacturer went out of business. You would be compounding the problem in surgery because generally your eyes should be on the field instead of your attending's mouth, which is obscured by a mask anyway.

It was difficult but possible to do internal medicine, it relied on good lip reading skills, which apparently is very difficult for deaf people to do on accented patients. She carried around a portable device to receive text from phones (forget the name of those gizmos) and she recorded conferences and had them sent to her husband to transcribe. He said her fellow residents had to do a lot of extra work to get her past her obstacles, take that for what it is worth. The residency directory also said he was honored to have been able to train a doctor that will be able to better serve the deaf community.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Like Habeed, I find the accomodations which would have to be made, at the current state of technology, to be unreasonable.

It not only depends on the ability of the OP to be able to read lips (ie, practically impossible in the OR) but his ability to communicate with the OR staff when he/she needs something.

The ADA serves a great purpose but it does not mandate that every job be open to people with disabilities if the accomodations or the possible consequences are too great.

 

[DEAF]

Thank you for your opinions, guys. I completely understood that a deaf person being a surgeon probably affects the leak of communication during operation. I am not aware of how a sign language/oral interpreter communicate with a deaf surgeon during operation since there are no deaf surgeons in United States. I know that surgical mask lowers a deaf surgeon's ability to read, but can an interpreter help? I don't know -- I see most of surgeons pay attention to the body fields and still have the ability to communicate.
I am really interested in surgical fields, I know it's pretty early for me, but still. If a deaf being a surgeon is nearly impossible, I will have plenty time to check out other fields that would probably interest me. 🙁

Note: I do not have other serious disabilities, just I am completely deaf, and I can read lips a little.

 

[Dimoak]

Also, it would be almost impossible to get stethoscopic impressions; you'd essentially need other people to listen for you (instead of just borrowing other people's stethoscopes 😉 ). I agree with what other people have been saying in that with modern technology, training a completly deaf surgeon would just be too difficult. But that doesn't necessarily mean the medical field is out of reach for you. It's possible for you to complete medical school while being deaf, and from there, you may want to look into Radiology, as hearing isn't the most important sense in that field, and perhaps if you have heightened visual acuity and attention to detail, you may be able to excel in that field. You're also still young, so make sure to enjoy this time in your life (your hearing impairment may even become reperable by the time you're ready for medical school), while keeping your eyes on the prize! 😉

 

[DEAF]

Also, it would be almost impossible to get stethoscopic impressions; you'd essentially need other people to listen for you (instead of just borrowing other people's stethoscopes 😉 ). I agree with what other people have been saying in that with modern technology, training a completly deaf surgeon would just be too difficult. But that doesn't necessarily mean the medical field is out of reach for you. It's possible for you to complete medical school while being deaf, and from there, you may want to look into Radiology, as hearing isn't the most important sense in that field, and perhaps if you have heightened visual acuity and attention to detail, you may be able to excel in that field. You're also still young, so make sure to enjoy this time in your life (your hearing impairment may even become reperable by the time you're ready for medical school), while keeping your eyes on the prize! 😉

Aw, man. More sad facts for me. Radiology? I don't know. I don't sit and look at very complex screens to figure out. Sorry, but I am very uncertain if Radiology is the right field for me.
I guess doctors in all the fields except Radiology are required to have decent communication skills to communicate with patients? I guess communication is more important than skill/knowledge/intelligence.

 

[Habeed]

I guess communication is more important than skill/knowledge/intelligence.

All factors are important. And, unlike other fields, you cannot really compensate for not being able to communicate by having more skill/knowledge/intelligence.

The reason is because existing doctors already have about as much skill/knowledge/intelligence as a human being can have, given the limits of medical knowledge. Medicine attracts the best and the brightest, and selects for some of the most intelligent people available. There's still variation between physicians, but almost all doctors are very smart, and have the ability to communicate rapidly without an interpreter.

In addition to a radiologist, you could also be a pathologist. For the same reason, you probably have somewhat better visual acuity than an average person, and you probably are naturally talented at reading pathology slides. You do "look at complex screens to figure them out", but nearly all doctors have to examine complex images to figure out what is going on.

 

[DEAF]

All factors are important. And, unlike other fields, you cannot really compensate for not being able to communicate by having more skill/knowledge/intelligence.

The reason is because existing doctors already have about as much skill/knowledge/intelligence as a human being can have, given the limits of medical knowledge. Medicine attracts the best and the brightest, and selects for some of the most intelligent people available. There's still variation between physicians, but almost all doctors are very smart, and have the ability to communicate rapidly without an interpreter.

In addition to a radiologist, you could also be a pathologist. For the same reason, you probably have somewhat better visual acuity than an average person, and you probably are naturally talented at reading pathology slides. You do "look at complex screens to figure them out", but nearly all doctors have to examine complex images to figure out what is going on.

I am accepting that fact that I don't have the ability to communicate with other doctors during operation, or patients while discussing about diseases, or others because I am completely deaf, and cannot read other doctors' lips with surgical masks on, or interpreters are really expensive. I got it. I don't mind looking at complex screens, but I just don't sit all the years until I die. Pathology is an interesting field, I will check that field out if I get accepted to a medical school. I really appreciated your opinions.
Looking at your join date, I am amusing you're an attending or a resident?

I would like to ask you a personal question, and I wouldn't take offenses from you if you answered my question. Do you think a deaf person should not be a doctor (any fields) because of the leak of communication?

 

[SocialistMD]

alot of surgeons dont listen to what anyone has to say anyway, therefore being functionally deaf

I was waiting for someone to say it. 🙂

The reason is because existing doctors already have about as much skill/knowledge/intelligence as a human being can have, given the limits of medical knowledge. Medicine attracts the best and the brightest, and selects for some of the most intelligent people available. There's still variation between physicians, but almost all doctors are very smart, and have the ability to communicate rapidly without an interpreter.

Whoa! Slow down.
1. We are no where near the limits to skill, knowledge or intelligence that a human can have (not at our current state, nor are we the highest functioning profession). To believe so basically means there is no need for any attempts at scientific innovation or research because we, as humans, won't be able to understand, process or retain them.
2. While medical schools may accept the best and brightest of their applicants, that only represents a small fraction of the "best and brightest" pool, whatever that means.
We are not on a pedestal.

DEAF-
Do not let things you read here dissuade you from pursuing a career in medicine, even one based on patient contact. While the technology may not be there currently to allow for a surgical career, there are very bright and successful medical students who go into patient care fields (I have personal knowledge of some in internal medicine and pediatrics).

 

[Habeed]

Looking at your join date, I am amusing you're an attending or a resident?

I would like to ask you a personal question, and I wouldn't take offenses from you if you answered my question. Do you think a deaf person should not be a doctor (any fields) because of the leak of communication?

No, it took me 5 years just to get into medical school.

No, I don't think that. However, I don't think a deaf person should be a doctor in a specialty where a lack of communication could plausibly cause someone's death or severe injury. Every form of surgery is like that.

Yes, interpreters and teletext and lip reading provide alternate ways of communicating, but these methods are slower and more error prone than human speech, at least for the people you communicate with.

More broadly, in most specialties being deaf is a massive handicap, and would require an enormous amount of accomodation. You would not be able to use a stethescope to check for lung and heart and bowel sounds, which is part of the basic examination that nearly every physician routinely does dozens of times per day. You'd have to have an interpreter follow you everywhere, and it seems obvious that the majority of patients are going to be frightened by a deaf person as their doctor. It may not be fair, but it is how people are.

Whatever you choose, perhaps you should pick something where the amount of accomodation required by other people is small? Where you don't need an interpreter every working hour? You might be able to demand entrance into a field where you would need more than that, but people would resent you for it.

I've seen mention of a deaf resident training in the specialties of internal medicine, and in emergency medicine on these forums. In both cases, the main comment made was that this was a totally inappropriate use of resources, as the deaf resident was costing a fortune in interpreters, and could not keep up with his or her peers. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

I'm interested in surgery, but if I discovered I had significantly less hand-eye coordination than the average surgeon, I would nix the idea and choose another specialty, even if my USMLE score meant I would most likely succeed in matching. I would also nix the idea if I discovered I had a progressive neurological disease that would destroy my peripheral nervous system by age 40. In both examples, I would still be allowed to train as a surgeon, but by doing so I'd take a training spot that could be used to train a surgeon who would be much better than me.

You can demand entrance to medical school under ADA, and it appears that you can demand training in many specialties, but maybe you should choose a field where your handicaps will not require more than a small, reasonable accomodation on the part of other people to overcome? That's why we recommend radiology or pathology.

 

[SocialistMD]

You would not be able to use a stethescope to check for lung and heart and bowel sounds, which is part of the basic examination that nearly every physician routinely does dozens of times per day. You'd have to have an interpreter follow you everywhere, and it seems obvious that the majority of patients are going to be frightened by a deaf person as their doctor.

Case in point as to why you shouldn't believe everything you read here. Furthermore, you actually do have an interpreter to follow you everywhere, and while a few (probably not a majority) patients will not like having a deaf physician, the number of deaf patients (who will flock to you, by the way) who will appreciate being able to communicate with you will offset it.

I've seen mention of a deaf resident training in the specialties of internal medicine, and in emergency medicine on these forums. In both cases, the main comment made was that this was a totally inappropriate use of resources, as the deaf resident was costing a fortune in interpreters, and could not keep up with his or her peers. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

Again, said without any real evidence, just heresay. I went to medical school with a deaf student. He was Junior AOA, which makes me think he didn't have any trouble keeping up with those of us who could hear and, knowing this guy, I'm sure he is just as successful now as an internist.
Habeed, please don't tell people, particularly young, impressionable high school students, what they can't do with their lives, especially when you don't have all the facts straight yourself.

 

[DEAF]

Thank you for answering my question, Habeed. I fairly agreed with you on most of the parts about interpreters, and communication. That's why I needed people's opinions on this situation. To be honestly, a deaf person being EM is impossible and unreasonable, and it requires a lot of communication which I know I cannot become an EM. Sure I can do everything, but I have to make sure my future career fits my deafness issue very well.

I truly do not want to kill patients by accident, get sued, and lose the medical license because of the lack of communication. It seems I am going to lose my "becoming a surgeon" dream, but I can move on about it. Now, I am looking forward to pathology, I heard that there are more pathology-related specialties such as AP, and CP. What is the difference between both?

My goal "was" to work at any hospitals in Rochester, NY where a lot of deaf people live, of course, it's very popular for deaf community. Pathologists do not have patients, right?

Again, Habeed, thank you so much. This is a really really good discussion, at least, to me. I really hope you match into a kind of surgery!

 

[Habeed]

Case in point as to why you shouldn't believe everything you read here. Furthermore, you actually do have an interpreter to follow you everywhere, and while a few (probably not a majority) patients will not like having a deaf physician, the number of deaf patients (who will flock to you, by the way) who will appreciate being able to communicate with you will offset it.

Junior AOA is based on basic science grades. That electronic stethescope is for use with a hearing aid, not someone completely deaf who may not even have the brain circuitry to process sound. (explaining why a cochlear implant isn't possible)

Anatomical and Clinical Pathology. Basically autopsies versus specimens from a living patient. Most pathologists train in both.

You usually don't communicate directly with patients in pathology, which is why I recommended it, as you probably would not need a 24/7 interpreter. Clinical pathologists are responsible for correctly identifying a disease and their decisions do have life and death importance. Some work in a special lab on the other side of a wall from the operating room, and they identify the stage and type of cancer as the pieces of tumor are cut out of the patient.

 

[SocialistMD]

Junior AOA is based on basic science grades.

Try again. To get Junior AOA (at my school, at least), you had to honor 2 of your first 3 clinical rotations.

That electronic stethescope is for use with a hearing aid, not someone completely deaf who may not even have the brain circuitry to process sound. (explaining why a cochlear implant isn't possible)

It works with a cochlear implant.
Cochlear implants exist in people who are completely deaf (or would be if they didn't have the implant).
Therefore, (while it may not work for every deaf person) it works deaf people. You don't know if DEAF has a cochlear implant or not, so you can't say whether or not it will work for DEAF.

 

[Habeed]

He says he is completely deaf. A person with a cochlear implant is functionally not deaf, as they have the ability to hear. Rush Limbaugh uses cochlear implants, and he is evidently able to hear well enough to continue his radio program.

A cochlear implant is a completely different story. The technology will likely improve to the point that a person with an implant could do any medical specialty out there. With clever use of digital filters, a person with an advanced cochlear implant could potentially hear better than a person with normal hearing. Last I read, current implants only use 16 physical electrodes. Increasing that to a few thousand electrodes would give the implant the ability to translate sound at something close to the resolution of normal human hearing. Given the existence of micromachined devices like the DLP chip in televisions that use millions of tiny mirrors, this seems possible, eventually.

Unfortunately, "DEAF" may not be eligible for a cochlear implant. Depending on what caused his deafness, his temporal lobe may not even be capable of processing sound, so even an implant in the brain might not be capable of giving him the ability to hear.

 

[SocialistMD]

Unfortunately, "DEAF" may not be eligible for a cochlear implant.

Which gets back to my point; you don't know whether or not DEAF can have or has a cochlear implant, making your blanket statement of "deaf=can't hear heart sounds" inaccurate. You could be dissuading a capable future physician from trying to enter the field based on your false information.

 

[Habeed]

deaf : lacking or deprived of the sense of hearing wholly or in part

 

[SocialistMD]

deaf : lacking or deprived of the sense of hearing wholly or in part

Did you just make my argument for me, or are you saying people with cochlear implants are not deaf? 😕

 

[Habeed]

Can people with cochlear implants hear? Can you call up Rush Limbaugh and talk to him over the phone?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. People with cochlear implants are not completely deaf. They are hearing impaired. Some hearing is vastly better than none at all.

In addition, eventually the technology will develop to the point that a person with a cochlear implant is no longer deaf by any reasonable definition of the word.

So no, that guy at UCD isn't deaf. And many of the 16 "deaf doctors" in training probably have cochlear implants as well.

 

[SocialistMD]

Can people with cochlear implants hear? Can you call up Rush Limbaugh and talk to him over the phone?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. People with cochlear implants are not completely deaf. They are hearing impaired. Some hearing is vastly better than none at all.

In addition, eventually the technology will develop to the point that a person with a cochlear implant is no longer deaf by any reasonable definition of the word.

Ah, so the ADA and the NAD have it completely wrong and shouldn't be supporting or allowing membership to people who can regain some hearing with cochlear implants? I see. Bravo to you, sir, bravo...🙄

 

[Habeed]

Ah, so the ADA and the NAD have it completely wrong and shouldn't be supporting or allowing membership to people who can regain some hearing with cochlear implants? I see. Bravo to you sir, bravo...🙄

How much support do you feel we should give? Is hiring a translator 80 hours a week really worth taking a deaf student with slightly higher undergraduate grades/MCAT than someone who can hear? Does hiring 2 full time employees for the rest of one person's career qualify as "reasonable" accomodation?

Sure, a doctor is a valuable worker....but the medical school could have chosen someone to be a doctor with just slightly worse grades but the ability to hear and therefore not need 2 more people to spend their entire career making possible the career of one person.

I'm all for empowering the disabled, but only if there is a net benefit to society.

That's my primary point I am trying to impress on this young person. Fact is, ADA frightens institutions, and causes them to do things that don't make sense. I think he should only do medicine if he truly, honestly feels that he will be able to offer more than the accomodations will cost.

 

[SocialistMD]

How much support do you feel we should give? Is hiring a translator 80 hours a week really worth taking a deaf student with slightly higher undergraduate grades/MCAT than someone who can hear?

And out comes the hang-up. Not everything is about grades and MCAT scores, and you don't know what the conditions were on his acceptance (i.e. grades, scores, etc...). As someone who applied to schools in Texas, you should know that. To answer your question, people smarter than you and me thought it was a wise investment, so I don't question it, particularly since I know how great he is.

Sure, a doctor is a valuable worker....but the medical school could have chosen someone to be a doctor with just slightly worse grades but the ability to hear and therefore not need 2 more people to spend their entire career making possible the career of one person.

But would that person be able to serve the deaf community as well as him? Most likely not. See, it was actually an investment in the care of patients. Not only was he an exceptional applicant, but he also offered something very unique that allowed him to reach a subset of patients in a way nearly every other physician could not.

I'm all for empowering the disabled, but only if there is a net benefit to society.

I feel his "net benefit" to the hearing impaired community is worth it alone, as he will probably have a more dynamic and lasting impression on his deaf patients than you or I ever will on our patients who can hear.

 

[Habeed]

Let's hope the deaf community benefits.

 

[SocialistMD]

Let's hope the deaf community benefits.

If you do a you tube search on him, you'll find he already has an outreach series on medical education (teaching deaf patients about diabetes, heart disease, etc...) that he does in the community. You have much to learn, young one...

 

[Habeed]

If you do a you tube search on him, you'll find he already has an outreach series on medical education (teaching deaf patients about diabetes, heart disease, etc...) that he does in the community. You have much to learn, young one...

I never said a deaf person didn't have anything to offer. In fact, I specifically mentioned that a deaf person might be better at reading histology slides than a person with hearing, due to more of the brain being dedicated to processing vision instead of sound.

With that said, is a little outreach and some better communication with patients worth the cost of interpreters? I just googled to see how much an interpreter can cost : $100 an hour was the number I saw. Even if we assume half that, $50 an hour. Medical school is 22 hours a week during basic sciences, for 33 weeks at my school. That's $36k each year of basic sciences. For rotations : 48 weeks times 60 hours/week * $50 : $144,000 each year of rotations. Another $144,000 each year of residency, assume a 3 year residency.

So roughly $792,000. Even the most inflated estimates of medical school cost suggest that an entire additional doctor could be trained for $800,000.

You tell me if that's a good use of money. Who could serve the deaf community better, 1 doctor who happens to be deaf or two doctors who can hear? Honestly, this seems like a pretty rhetorical question, but perhaps you have a different take on it.

Evidence based thinking means you make decisions based upon what the evidence supports, not what happens to be 'popular' thinking.

 

[asmallchild]

You argue way too much and way too loudly for someone who hasn't stepped foot in medical school yet..........

 

[Habeed]

I'm in medical school right now.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I'm in medical school right now.

According to your other posts, you've been accepted to medical school; you are not in medical school yet. There is a difference.

 

[Habeed]

According to your other posts, you've been accepted to medical school; you are not in medical school yet. There is a difference.

Nope. Just left the anatomy lab.

 

[DEAF]

Man, the world is all about money. I am pretty sure interpreters are totally expensive, but just let medical schools make their own decisions about hiring interpreters. Not all the interpreters cost $100 an hour; it depends on their interpreting levels.

I have five interpreters at my mainstreamed school (public school with a deaf program), and they cost more than 50 an hour, including activities, sports, clubs, and more. My public school has no problems with that because they want to educate deaf students very well.

Some people with cochlear implants are completely deaf, but they increase their ability to hear a very little, which means their brains would take a long time to get used to any sound. I am completely deaf, if I have a cochlear implant, I am still deaf. I chose not to because cochlear implants do not work for deaf people who are completely deaf, at least, it can work for some if they get cochlear implants at the VERY young age, and going to regular schools at the same time.

If medical schools pick a hearing person with poor MCAT, or GPA instead of a deaf person with decent MCAT, or GPA, they are breaking ADA. Sorry, but it is very unfair.

I am a normal human being like you guys, but I just cannot hear. It seems a huge deal to you, Habeed. But thank you for your opinions...money....

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Nope. Just left the anatomy lab.

Then why all the posts on the texas tech class of 2013 thread?

Count me in!

1. maggie08
2. tigerLSU
3.teacherman
4. Agshan08
5. justdoit31
6. TX_NFS
7. yogatexas
8. zolaash
9. Habeed

Or this one from yesterday:

...so that one way or another, I'd be going to allopathic medical school by this August.

 

[Habeed]

If medical schools pick a hearing person with poor MCAT, or GPA instead of a deaf person with decent MCAT, or GPA, they are breaking ADA. Sorry, but it is very unfair.

I said that perhaps $800,000 is beyond the level of reasonable accomodation as required by ADA, as that is enough money to educate one, if not several medical students all the way to the end of residency.

I was pointing out that if it really costs that much, then society could give 2 or 3 people with hearing their dream of being a doctor instead of one person who was deaf. People reading this thread can decide what they think is more fair.

 

[Habeed]

Then why all the posts on the texas tech class of 2013 thread?

Because I'm in a Master's program. I didn't say I was a medical student, just that I was in medical school.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I didn't say I was a medical student, just that I was in medical school.

Despite knowing that that was exactly what the other poster meant...

Don't be deliberately misleading.

 

[Habeed]

Despite knowing that that was exactly what the other poster meant...

Don't be deliberately misleading.

The other poster was trying to discredit me by saying I knew nothing about medical school.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

The other poster was trying to discredit me by saying I knew nothing about medical school.

More accurately, he was saying your inexperience meant you were not in position to be making such strong statements about who should or shouldn't be a surgeon.

So your response was to try and artificially inflate your status...not a good way to earn credit back...

 

[Habeed]

More accurately, he was saying your inexperience meant you were not in position to be making such strong statements about who should or shouldn't be a surgeon.

Oddly enough, the actual surgeon here agrees with me.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Oddly enough, the actual surgeon here agrees with me.

I don't really care about the argument itself...just pointing out that you need to watch out for getting too big for your britches (in the residents' forum no less...); this is something you have done multiple times in different threads now

 

[Apollyon]

Ironically, I know of 3 ENTs (two attendings, and one resident) that did oto because they are hearing impaired (although none totally, and none congenitally).

("Oto", for the OP, is "otolaryngology" - ears, nose, and throat.)

 

[SocialistMD]

So roughly $792,000. Even the most inflated estimates of medical school cost suggest that an entire additional doctor could be trained for $800,000.

You tell me if that's a good use of money. Who could serve the deaf community better, 1 doctor who happens to be deaf or two doctors who can hear? Honestly, this seems like a pretty rhetorical question, but perhaps you have a different take on it.

Do you really want to have this conversation?

Cost of ICU care for one night: ~$4,000 (a low-end rate)
Cost of CABG/coronary stenting: $32,000/$20,000
Cost of non-healing diabetic foot ulcer: $14,500
Cost of below the knee amputation: $75,000

By preventing diabetes in ten patients (who would not attend the same lecture from either of your other two physicians) educated, he has paid the $750,000 in translator costs, but the list goes on and on.

In short, you do not yet think broadly enough to fully grasp the whole of medicine and your general knowledge base combined with your sense of self is just enough to get you in trouble. My advice to you is to think about all angles of a subject and to do your homework prior to engaging in any discussion, lest you look foolish and lose any credibility you might have had.

Oddly enough, the actual surgeon here agrees with me.

Who, WS? While she may agree with you about whether or not a person who is deaf can be a surgeon, I'm sure she doesn't agree with your crazy thought process or your feelings about deaf people having a clinical practice and seeing patients.

 

[DEAF]

Ok. Habeed, if you are not a medical student, your opinions are still matter to me. But I would prefer to hear useful opinions from medical students who have experience in nearly all the specifies, residents, and attendings.

 

[Smurfette]

Can you technically be completely deaf and be a surgeon? Yes, of course. However, the likelihood of 1. having a residency program accept a deaf resident (and if so, getting all the attendings to accept and teach a deaf resident), 2. a fellowship program accept a deaf fellow (if pursuing a fellowship) and 3. a surgery practice accept a deaf surgeon, with subsequent accommodations at the corresponding hospitals they operate at, are all barriers which would make it EXCEEDINGLY difficult.

Medical schools can make accommodations for a deaf student. Certain residency programs can as well (I don't think IM is completely out of the question, and certainly radiology, pathology, PM&R, psych, radonc could be possible given the right combination of factors and supportive people). Surgical specialties would be more tricky for someone with no ability to hear due to the extensive amount of time to communicate with others while wearing a mask, or inability to look at a person directly (i.e. if you are controlling bleeding, you are not going to look away).

Another concern is the high likelihood that someone born completely deaf is unable to speak words...how to communicate what you need next when both hands are holding instruments and you're unable to sign?

Just my thoughts...

 

[Dr. Dukes]

Certain residency programs can as well (I don't think IM is completely out of the question, and certainly radiology, pathology, PM&R, psych, radonc could be possible given the right combination of factors and supportive people).

My wife is a 4th year (just matched!!!!!) and one of her classmates is deaf and going into PM&R. We think (she's not very close to him) that he was born deaf, but has cochlear implants. He can hear somewhat, and gets by with lip-reading.
He got real time lecture transcription in class, and for his 3rd year was limited for where he could go on rotations (only one of their teaching hospitals could accommodate him.
Another thing that no one has brought up is you have to be able to communicate with your patients, without sign language. During residency you'll be treating "random" patients and will need to figure out how to communicate with them.
To the OP: I think you're getting ahead of yourself. Something like 70% of college freshman who enter college KNOWING what they want to major in totally change their mind. I didn't, a lot of the people of this forum probably didn't, but many many more people do. In your specific circumstance I think it is a good think to be thinking about whether medical school is possible (how much of an accommodation does it take, stuff like that), but as far as specific specialties, you're certainly getting ahead of yourself.
I think I'm interested in surgery, but I'm waiting till 3rd year to make up my mind. I will tell you that both radiologists and pathologists (probably the two specialties that would require the least accommodation) know A TON about clinical disease and its diagnosis. Ain't nothing wrong with working 9-5, either.

 

[tussy]

This is an interesting argument. It is very tough to say to someone with a disability that they "CAN'T" do something. With respect to surgery i would suggest not that you "Can't" do it but more that you "shouldn't" do it. Certainly you could do it with a lot of accomadation and help and additional effort. However, surgical training is difficult enough for someone without a disability. Trying to do it as a deaf person would be incredibly difficult and you would likely face a lot of discrimination. Also, the more important issue, is that you probably will never be as good of a surgeon as your hearing counterparts. Doing something but not well is fine in some areas, however, with surgery doing something not as well means that patients outcomes will suffer. This is were society's interests outweigh your rights as a disabled person. Life isn't fair, i'm sorry.

So, in conclusion, i would say that you shouldn't be a surgeon. That's not to say that you shouldn't become a doctor if that is your dream. Medical school will be more difficult for you but certainly you could have a lot to offer to your patients (especially deaf patients) and there is probably a unique niche practice that you could fill where you would ultimately be far more skilled and qualified than any hearing person. Focus on your strengths and embrace your unique skills and talents and find a career that is the most suited to you and you will be happy in life.

 

[DEAF]

This is an interesting argument. It is very tough to say to someone with a disability that they "CAN'T" do something. With respect to surgery i would suggest not that you "Can't" do it but more that you "shouldn't" do it. Certainly you could do it with a lot of accomadation and help and additional effort. However, surgical training is difficult enough for someone without a disability. Trying to do it as a deaf person would be incredibly difficult and you would likely face a lot of discrimination. Also, the more important issue, is that you probably will never be as good of a surgeon as your hearing counterparts. Doing something but not well is fine in some areas, however, with surgery doing something not as well means that patients outcomes will suffer. This is were society's interests outweigh your rights as a disabled person. Life isn't fair, i'm sorry.

So, in conclusion, i would say that you shouldn't be a surgeon. That's not to say that you shouldn't become a doctor if that is your dream. Medical school will be more difficult for you but certainly you could have a lot to offer to your patients (especially deaf patients) and there is probably a unique niche practice that you could fill where you would ultimately be far more skilled and qualified than any hearing person. Focus on your strengths and embrace your unique skills and talents and find a career that is the most suited to you and you will be happy in life.

Sure I would likely face a lot of discrimination, but I got used to it. I often keep getting called "******" in different ways since I am not strongly disabled, only I just cannot hear. It's more like people who call deaf people inappropriate words know NOTHING about deaf culture and deaf community.

Again, I am accepting that fact that it's all the risk for me to go into a surgery specialty because of the lack of communication which can causes someone's death or serious injure. However, I can do it, but I want to make sure my future career fits my deafness issue. It seems being a surgeon is not the right career for me, I guess.
Other posters said I can. Sure I can, but if a specialty requires a lot of communication without "lag", I would not go into that specialty. I am not interested in putting too much work on residents' and attendings' shoulders.

How will medical schools be more difficult for me? I don't understand what you mean by that. My guess is I would get a lot of rejects because of my deafness, or I would probably not see a deaf patient during medical school years?

What do you think about pathology? I think it is an interesting specialty. I love people, but oh well.

Dr. Dukes - I know it's pretty early for me, but it's like a surgery specialty automatically interested me, know what I mean? I will have plenty time to check other fields out to see what I can do. It'd be great if you tell me what medical school your wife is going to. 🙂

Another concern is the high likelihood that someone born completely deaf is unable to speak words...how to communicate what you need next when both hands are holding instruments and you're unable to sign?

Exactly. I've been thinking about this for a long time. That's why I bumped this thread.