Dear future DO physicians

[fi3451]

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I’ve got a feeling that all of us are going to be much better doctors if we treat MDs, DOs, DPMs, PAs, nurses, etc. as colleagues rather than someone who may not have taken as “rigorous” of path as we did.

I am so tired of this topic coming up on SDN time and time again. It always surprises me how many people care about this topic.

 

[deleted245139]

Sure it’s possible, but like I said seems very unlikely. In general the person who does well in college will be smarter than the person who does poorly, and in general a smarter person will make a better clinician. Seems like pretty simple deduction to me, and I’ll need something more than “I’m an attending” to convince me. Wouldn’t work for me on the wards and it won’t work for me on sdn

Well, you got it all figured out 😉

 

[deleted407021]

Sure it’s possible, but like I said seems very unlikely. In general the person who does well in college will be smarter than the person who does poorly, and in general a smarter person will make a better clinician. Seems like pretty simple deduction to me, and I’ll need something more than “I’m an attending” to convince me. Wouldn’t work for me on the wards and it won’t work for me on sdn

Not a single person in any medical school in the US did poorly in college.

 

[Chibucks15]

Minimalize it all you want, but we both know it’s more than just letters. Even if we ignore differences in education we still have what are less qualified students going in, it would hardly be surprising if we get worse stuff coming out.

And we get it, you’re an attending... congrats

I mean its not like us DOs are idiots...cmon now

 

[sliceofbread136]

Not a single person in any medical school in the US did poorly in college.

For the sake of not offending anyone I’m not going to touch this

 

[deleted407021]

For the sake of not offending anyone I’m not going to touch this

You actually claimed that MD and DO students are different because one group did well in college while the other did poorly. That is an absurd claim to make. If people who did poorly in college could get into med school left right and center SDN wouldn't exist.

 

[sliceofbread136]

I mean its not like us DOs are idiots...cmon now

Ya I’m not saying that. Just that on average a do student had a poorer college performance than a md student

 

[sliceofbread136]

You actually claimed that MD and DO students are different because one group did well in college while the other did poorly. That is an absurd claim to make. If people who did poorly in college could get into med school left right and center SDN wouldn't exist.

It’s a relative word...

 

[deleted407021]

It’s a relative word...

In discussing the relative value of your current and future fellow colleagues, one would be advised to choose one's words carefully...

 

[sliceofbread136]

In discussing the relative value of your current and future fellow colleagues, one would be advised to choose one's words carefully...

As long as we are trading advice it may help to not be so sensitive

 

[Chibucks15]

As long as we are trading advice it may help to not be so sensitive

I don't think defending our intelligence to the almighty M1 is being sensitive bud

 

[sliceofbread136]

I don't think defending our intelligence to the almighty M1 is being sensitive bud

Im an intern

 

[deleted407021]

As long as we are trading advice it may help to not be so sensitive

1: Whenever someone comes along, perhaps not knowing what they're talking about, and maybe says something about DOs being better than MDs, this forum burns to the ground. But posts declaring the inferiority of DOs are common.
2: If you make a statement and it offends people and you find yourself trying to clarify and maybe becoming defensive, it's time to consider that you perhaps didn't communicate well.

 

[Chibucks15]

Im an intern

doesn't change much honestly

 

[sliceofbread136]

1: Whenever someone comes along, perhaps not knowing what they're talking about, and maybe says something about DOs being better than MDs, this forum burns to the ground. But posts declaring the inferiority of DOs are common.
2: If you make a statement and it offends people and you find yourself trying to clarify and maybe becoming defensive, it's time to consider that you perhaps didn't communicate well.

1. You can claim it, I just won’t believe you.
2. I’m not defensive. I was going to avoid saying this but if my college performance was at the average for most DO schools I would classify my performance as poor.

 

[rg2o3]

.

 

[sliceofbread136]

doesn't change much honestly

Cool

 

[deleted407021]

1. You can claim it, I just won’t believe you.
2. I’m not defensive. I was going to avoid saying this but if my college performance was at the average for most DO schools I would classify my performance as poor.

So, you didn't in fact intend the word "poorly" to be interpreted as relative? Ok...

 

[Psai]

1: Whenever someone comes along, perhaps not knowing what they're talking about, and maybe says something about DOs being better than MDs, this forum burns to the ground. But posts declaring the inferiority of DOs are common.
2: If you make a statement and it offends people and you find yourself trying to clarify and maybe becoming defensive, it's time to consider that you perhaps didn't communicate well.

Hahaha

 

[sliceofbread136]

So, you didn't in fact intend the word "poorly" to be interpreted as relative? Ok...

The word is inherently relative. Just as you read poor and interpreted it as college drop out etc, my brain inherently interprets it as closer to the average stats of DO schools. What you see as poor I would likely see as extremely poor or terrible. Should I explain further?

 

[deleted407021]

The word is inherently relative. Just as you read poor and interpreted it as college drop out etc, my brain inherently interprets it as closer to the average stats of DO schools. What you see as poor I would likely see as extremely poor or terrible. Should I explain further?

We're obviously talking past one another

 

[Mad Jack]

Laugh all you want. Let’s just say that I would very very surprised if a truly accurate measurement didn’t show a difference. If I had a choice for my own doctor I’d choose md everytime (given similar residencies)

Good for you I guess. I tend to actually vet my doctors based on their clinical acumen rather than their credentials. By networking you can find out who is "good" in your area in each given specialty, those docs people widely respect in a clinical sense. Some are MDs, some are DOs, some are IMGs of various sorts. Or you could just look for shiny diplomas like an uneducated pleb I guess, that works too.

 

[Mad Jack]

1. You can claim it, I just won’t believe you.
2. I’m not defensive. I was going to avoid saying this but if my college performance was at the average for most DO schools I would classify my performance as poor.

My college performance and MCAT are higher than the large majority of MD students, it doesn't really mean much. I couldn't give two ****s what a person's uGPA or MCAT score are, because medicine isn't about what you did eight years ago, it's about what you've done lately. Just as that 38 on the MCAT doesn't guarantee a solid USMLE score, a USMLE score doesn't guarantee a great residency, and a great residency doesn't guarantee you're a great clinician. You're only as good as you have become through hard work and study, and there's many a terrible surgeon with a fancy diploma I've met over the years that has proven that to me. The worst clinician I ever met was a MD/PhD educated at one of the best medical schools in the country that did his residency in one of the best programs in this country.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Good for you I guess. I tend to actually vet my doctors based on their clinical acumen rather than their credentials. By networking you can find out who is "good" in your area in each given specialty, those docs people widely respect in a clinical sense. Some are MDs, some are DOs, some are IMGs of various sorts. Or you could just look for shiny diplomas like an uneducated pleb I guess, that works too.

Very touchy, not hard to guess which degree you have...

You’re right though if I had prior knowledge that said DO was a good clinician then that would trump degree in my choice of doctor.

 

[Mad Jack]

Very touchy, not hard to guess which degree you have...

You’re right though if I had prior knowledge that said DO was a good clinician then that would trump degree in my choice of doctor.

You're confusing "touchy" with "eye-rolling at your ignorance." I've had the same accusation thrown at me by flat earthers when I lay out how wrong they are and why they are wrong- I'm just explaining why your position is ignorant and ill-founded because it's a public service. I couldn't give two ****s about you or how you feel personally, but I don't like leaving ideas like yours unchallenged to pollute the minds of those passing by.

 

[deleted407021]

My college performance and MCAT are higher than the large majority of MD students, it doesn't really mean much. I couldn't give two ****s what a person's uGPA or MCAT score are, because medicine isn't about what you did eight years ago, it's about what you've done lately. Just as that 38 on the MCAT doesn't guarantee a solid USMLE score, a USMLE score doesn't guarantee a great residency, and a great residency doesn't guarantee you're a great clinician. You're only as good as you have become through hard work and study, and there's many a terrible surgeon with a fancy diploma I've met over the years that has proven that to me. The worst clinician I ever met was a MD/PhD educated at one of the best medical schools in the country that did his residency in one of the best programs in this country.

Being aware it's anecdotal ... back in 2013 I presented with diarrhea (I know, TMI but we're all doctors here), nausea, fever and fatigue for 36 hours. The attending in the ER with nice big MD/PhD on his coat (made me feel reassured) diagnosed me with ... wait for it ... a UTI!

A 19 male with all those sx and a UTI. Sent me home, my conditioned worsened, went to another ER and the doc was like, naw 19 y/o males don't get UTIs


So I'm skeptical of the whole pedigree thing tbh

 

[sliceofbread136]

My college performance and MCAT are higher than the large majority of MD students, it doesn't really mean much. I couldn't give two ****s what a person's uGPA or MCAT score are, because medicine isn't about what you did eight years ago, it's about what you've done lately. Just as that 38 on the MCAT doesn't guarantee a solid USMLE score, a USMLE score doesn't guarantee a great residency, and a great residency doesn't guarantee you're a great clinician. You're only as good as you have become through hard work and study, and there's many a terrible surgeon with a fancy diploma I've met over the years that has proven that to me. The worst clinician I ever met was a MD/PhD educated at one of the best medical schools in the country that did his residency in one of the best programs in this country.

I’m sure there is a lot of individual variation, but as a whole some who initially successful is going to be more likely to have continuing success than someone who isn’t initially successful. The exact same thing would apply to upper and lower tier md schools.

 

[Mad Jack]

I’m sure there is a lot of individual variation, but as a whole some who initially successful is going to be more likely to have continuing success than someone who isn’t initially successful. The exact same thing would apply to upper and lower tier md schools.

There is far more variation within any one school than between most schools. The success is as much a product of self-fulfilling prophecy as it is one of merit (I.e., oh, this guy with a 200 on his USMLE from Harvard must have had a bad day but is clearly more qualified than this DO or this IMG with a 250 to attend our program, because Harvard). It's the same phenomenon that occurs with wealth within families- wealth allows for success to be purchased to some degree in the same manner that pedigree allows for success to be purchased with social capital.

 

[sliceofbread136]

You're confusing "touchy" with "eye-rolling at your ignorance." I've had the same accusation thrown at me by flat earthers when I lay out how wrong they are and why they are wrong- I'm just explaining why your position is ignorant and ill-founded because it's a public service. I couldn't give two ****s about you or how you feel personally, but I don't like leaving ideas like yours unchallenged to pollute the minds of those passing by.

Ya not touchy at all lol. If you can’t agree that past and present success won’t correlate with the probability for future success then I guess we are done with the discussion.

 

[deleted407021]

The internet who has enough time to argue with DO students on the Internet and come to all these ground-breaking revelations(!) isn't touchy tho 😱

 

[WildWing]

Closed as this thread devolved into a "DO versus MD" thread.