Debate on Observation Hours

[DPTHopeful921]

Just to stir the pot here a bit and see what point of views everyone has: Do you think that people working as a PT Tech/PTA, that are applying to a DPT program, should be able to count their working hours as observation hours?? I know some think so, and some don't think they should- what does everyone think?

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[Seatown87]

My work at a PT clinic has been by far the best experience I have had as far as observation hours go. I get a chance to work hands on with patients. I have a PT as a mentor who I can go to with any questions. Additionally I am friends with PTs, hang out with them outside of work, and now really know what the lifestyle of a PT entails.

At some locations pretty much all I would do is clean things and spent very little time with PTs or patients.

 

[elmcd77]

I worked as a tech for two years and I will be starting pt school in May. In my personal experience, it showed me the ins and outs of the job of the pt I worked with more than just observing 50 hours here or there would. Besides the actual patient care side, when you get to know several pts over the course of 2 years, you get an idea of the gripes and advantages of their profession. I gained a greater understanding than I think I would have otherwise. Also, in my group interviews, I had a much better understanding of the profession as a whole than the others in my group did who had just observed. I am not knocking those who only had the time to do observation hours. I am saying that working as a tech reaffirmed my desire to study and work in pt, and should definitely count as observation hours.

 

[jgold72288]

It should be able to count for all the hours required, but I would hope it wouldn't give a leg up on anyone who did like 200 hours in several different settings.

 

[Lionation]

It should be able to count for all the hours required, but I would hope it wouldn't give a leg up on anyone who did like 200 hours in several different settings.

I agree with you to a degree, but if someone is working 40 hours a week, and getting work hours up in the thousands with multiple different therapists (even if it's the same setting), then I think they have a better idea of the behind the scenes responsibilities of a PT.

I had about 250 - 300 observation/volunteer/internship hours in multiple different tx settings before getting hired on in an outpatient clinic. I've racked up ~5000 hours in the outpatient clinic, and I can say I have learned much, much more being an actual member of the company. I see more of the monotonous paperwork and the frustration that comes from working with insurance companies. As a volunteer/intern, I feel like the companies I got my hours in usually guarded me from having to worry about or view the not so pretty details of the profession.

 

[adh28]

Working as an aide should definitely count. I am learning what it is like to run a clinic, how the therapists operate, the issues with insurance, and am surrounded by knowledgeable and professional Physical Therapists and health professionals every day. I put a lot of work into my job and get a lot out of it, it should count for hours in my opinion.

 

[JPH2011]

The state I live in does not allow clinics to have physical therapy aides, so I was never able to rack up hundreds of hours and get paid for it. Everything I did was strictly volunteer hours and was only allowed to observe. It's only not fair if a school would accept someone else with identical grades that worked as an aide and had hundreds more hours than I did. I was not able to spend the extra time observing and not getting paid because I had to work other jobs to have some money.

 

[elmcd77]

The state I live in does not allow clinics to have physical therapy aides, so I was never able to rack up hundreds of hours and get paid for it. Everything I did was strictly volunteer hours and was only allowed to observe. It's only not fair if a school would accept someone else with identical grades that worked as an aide and had hundreds more hours than I did. I was not able to spend the extra time observing and not getting paid because I had to work other jobs to have some money.

That is unfortunate that your state would not allow this. However, I left a job I was getting paid a moderate salary at, able to live a reasonable lifestyle, in order to work as a tech BECAUSE I knew that would strengthen my pt application and help me network in the industry. So, it's not like people are making all sorts of money to do this job. They are most likely doing it to increase their chances of getting into school. I made $9 an hour and worked my butt off. It was worth it in the end because I got into my state school, which is very competitive, and I believe this is what set me apart.

 

[wjs010]

I think it should be of an advantage if the person has the same variety as another applicant but just more in the setting that they worked in.

Like if I were going against an applicant, and we both had roughly the same impatient hours but he or she only had 50 hours outpatient and I had 2,000, I should definitely get the shoe in. It is a bonus to observe in any setting, so it should be a bonus to work in any setting also. The fact that the applicant was paid only shows that they probably had MORE of a responsibility. In my undergrad degree, it required an internship at a clinic, 180 hours unpaid. So I spent the quarter working there, but since I worked so much I gained a responsibility. The owner of the clinic would actually call me upstairs while I was drinking a protein shake or something to go work with a patient. So I am certain that I gained more experience than an observer who only watches.

With that said, a person who is getting paid to work at a clinic obviously can't just sit and watch, which means they have to take responsibility and be hands on, which in turn means that they have more experience and deserve more advantage than someone who only watched


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile app I will accept any pt school at this point. I cannot sleep

 

[wjs010]

I am also trying to be a tech/aide but it's sooo hard here nobody hires.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile app I will accept any pt school at this point. I cannot sleep

 

[kjo11]

Working as an aide should 100% count. Not only do you learn in your setting, but you build relationships with PTs and learn from their experiences. Many of the PTs I work with have multiple jobs or have worked in different settings and I have learned about other settings through this. Not only that, but I actually get one on one time with patients. I'm not just tagging along. I have learned how to relate, talk to, and motivate all different kinds of people without my supervising PT actually there with me, which you will ultimately have to learn to do once you are in pt school. It is an incredible experience.

 

[goyo1010]

Yes, of course. PTA/techs/aides who apply to PT school should be allowed to count their work hours. However, they will provide documentation (resume, LORs, etc) that does account for why they have 120,983,432 hours in the PT clinic compared to other applicants who simply volunteered or shadowed. Although experience is a part of the admissions process, it is not the only factor that determines acceptance. If applicants demonstrate they can handle the demands of the job and the academic rigor of the curriculum, then all should be good.

 

[TraumaPT]

Greetings, aspirants. The purposes of the observation hours are several: to ensure the student knows about the profession before undertaking the training, to prevent wasting a space in a class on someone who is unsuited to the work, and to demonstrate some smarts and initiative to the application committee.

Many program directors of my acquaintance look at the obs hours to determine if the applicant has really done some background on the field, which encompasses so much more than outpatient orthopedics. Working as a tech is fine, but 2000 hours paid does not equal 200 obs hours in three or four different settings - and the references from the PTs in those multiple settings, attesting to your ability to behave appropriately, to treat patients and other disciplines respectfully, and to ask smart questions.

What you submit to the school in your application is your demonstration of your commitment, your drive, and your curiosity. Use this opportunity - and it is absolutely an opportunity, not a roadblock - to become more knowledgeable about the whole of the profession you are considering.

And good luck to you all!

 

[DPTHopeful921]

Just to play devil's advocate, somewhat, i've found that when I've gone to physical therapy the tech isnt really "observing" me, or the physical therapist for that matter, but just checking and making sure I'm doing my exercises correctly and then moving on to the next patient they are assigned. I just think that classifying that as "observation" hours really isn't such. All of us that gained our observation hours by following a PT from patient to patient, sitting through evals, going over patients chart's, etc. didnt really just pop in on a patient for about 5-7 sec and make sure they were ok and move on. We got to sit there and watch them perform "mobes" and ask questions. So some of the hours worked by techs that are used as observation hours I really feel arent justified...

 

[jtux]

I don’t think PTAs/techs/aides should be able to count their work as observation hours. They should be counted as just what they are: work hours. PTCAS has a section for work experience, so that’s where they should go. I don’t think the hours they accumulate should be put on the same level as those who go out of their way to take their extra free time and volunteer without getting paid to be there. And it certainly isn’t right for applicants to put the hours under both the observation and employment sections. At least be fair and put them under only one section. Which in my opinion is work, as long as you're getting paid.

 

[kjo11]

Have you guys ever been to a clinic where an aide is working with a new patient every half hour for an 8 hour shift. This is hardly 5-7 seconds of dropping in. And when the aide isnt with a patient he or she is observing the PT and learning from them, as well as performing other tasks within the clinic that are necessary for it to run. How could you say that this shouldn't count? I work with up to 12-14 patients a day as an aide by myself.. some of them staying for up to 2 hours (working with multiple patients at once). During down time, you ask therapists why so and so was having difficulty with this exercise.. or what manip technique was this for.. etc. How could you say this doesn't count?? I don't get it

 

[jtux]

Actually yes I have. You assume too much. I currently work full time as an aide/intern at a clinic where I am responsible for working with upwards of 3 new patients an hour. So I completely understand the work and resulting experience gained. But you seemed to have missed my point entirely. The experience from working as an aide is certainly invaluable and could help an application. But when PTCAS gives clear separations on the application for work experience and observation experience it isn’t fair to put hours you get paid for under observation/volunteer. The hours I put under my observation section I didn’t get paid a dime for, I did them while still taking classes, and while working an unrelated job. I wasn’t attacking the benefits of working as an aide, I know them first hand. I just think it isn’t fair to put hours you get paid for under the observation/volunteer section. Put them under work, that’s why there’s a section for it.

 

[kjo11]

If you look under the PTCAS directions for work experience.. It says enter any NON-PT work experience. So you shouldn't be entering it for both observation and work, it should only appear in one

 

[kjo11]

Oh you didn't put them in both.. Never mind. I see your point I guess I just disagree. But that's probably why you have to enter whether your observation is paid or volunteer so that if schools want to look into that.. It's there

 

[kjo11]

But so you know where I'm coming from, I had over 400 hours I didn't get paid for in a variety of settings and about 3000 in an outpatient setting. I just feel I learned so much more seeing the ins and outs of a clinic for 4 years than only 100 in another setting. And PT work should be considered in greater detail than any other work experience, so I feel it should be separate from other work. Just my opinion I guess

 

[jtux]

Yeah, we can just agree to disagree there. I just went through some of the instructions on PTCAS to make sure I wasn’t giving wrong info. It looks like you can enter paid PT observation experience but you have to indicate that it was paid, and not volunteer. Although, it only says you can do this for PTA and it says it’s up to each school to decide on other paid experience and what counts. Really everything like this is up to each individual school. I did come across a couple of schools that cater largely to PTA’s wanting to go DPT. Most schools require multiple settings anyway, so most aides and techs will have to go outside of their clinic regardless. Anyway, I just think it’s wrong to enter it under both sections.

But so you know where I'm coming from, I had over 400 hours I didn't get paid for in a variety of settings and about 3000 in an outpatient setting. I just feel I learned so much more seeing the ins and outs of a clinic for 4 years than only 100 in another setting. And PT work should be considered in greater detail than any other work experience, so I feel it should be separate from other work. Just my opinion I guess

I agree with ya there. I was kinda similar, I had about 300 observation hours I accumulated in throughout undergrad. I wasn't an aide until just this semester and already have 600 more hours that never got to see my application. I'm sure schools give it special consideration when they see PT related work. I definitely feel like it's given me an edge going into PT school. I will say though I got to sit in on more evals as an observer/volunteer than I have in my aide work.

 

[bustedgrill]

I am going to be a junior next year, so this summer I am going to start my observation hours at whatever clinics will let me in. My question is how do you log these hours? Do you have to keep a journal and have the pt sign your hours when you leave daily, or do they keep these on file? My next question is how did you approach a clinic? Did you call or go in person? If you went in person did you dress up, or business casual? Thanks in advance.

 

[DCasey]

I am going to be a junior next year, so this summer I am going to start my observation hours at whatever clinics will let me in. My question is how do you log these hours? Do you have to keep a journal and have the pt sign your hours when you leave daily, or do they keep these on file? My next question is how did you approach a clinic? Did you call or go in person? If you went in person did you dress up, or business casual? Thanks in advance.

I created an Excel spreadsheet containing all the pertinent information fields for the PTCAS application (PT name, address, setting, hours, etc.). Some PT's will be more fastidious than others regarding the signing of forms. However, in the several settings I've volunteered, PT's seemed more interested in signing off on the hours when the experience was done. PTCAS allows electronic verification of hours, which is the preferred method. Some schools may want a paper copy of observation hour verification (rare), so just keep that in mind. That form can be downloaded from PTCAS. As for approaching clinics, I am fortunate to live in an area with many PT clinics, both outpatient and inpatient. I simply made a list of local hospitals with rehab departments and privately practicing PT's, calling everyone on the list. At least a few are sure to call back. If you come across as reasonably articulate and motivated, they'll probably ask you to meet in-person, or place you on a waiting list. Inpatient experiences, by far, are the most difficult to set up in my region--it might be different where you live.