Debating which prereqs

[gracietiger]

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I am quite torn on how to go about completing orgo and physics. I am currently taking my prereqs at UC Davis, but each course is very expensive!!! I have to work a non-animal related job for the university just so I can get a tuition deduction, which doesn't really help much. So I'm trying to do this as most cost-efficiently as possible, while still making me a strong applicant...

UC Davis offers two levels of both physics and orgo. The first level of each course consists of only two quarters, and fewer credits. In fact, one of the orgos is only 2 credits, which would only cost me like $200. They are also less time consuming, and from what I've heard, less intense.
The other level of each course is three quarters, much more intense and time consuming, and about $1000 each. So paying $2000 every 10 weeks really starts to hit me hard. However, the second level of these courses are what are required by most of the vet schools. They are considered the "pre-med" courses.

HOWEVER, UC Davis' vet school accepts the first level course as prereqs.

I really, as of now, only plan to apply to Davis and consider Davis. The only other school I could truly imagine considering would be Western, and maybe CSU, but Western costs twice as much as Davis and I would be out of state for CSU. Plus, I am in a serious relationship and need to be located somewhere where my fiancee can thrive (like Davis). I am not so sure he would have the opportunities he seeks in Pomona or Fort Collins.

So, if I truly intend to only apply to and consider Davis, then it seems to make more sense for me to take the shorter courses (I would be done with my prereqs a whole quarter earlier) and more importantly, the courses that would cost me over a grand less. I suppose if, in the future, I was like absolutely never ever going to get into Davis, or I changed my mind, I could take the orgo and physics required by the schools over the summer at a CC. But that brings me to another option. I could take those courses at a local CC here, again for cheap, and I believe they would fulfill the prereqs for other vet schools. I personally like the idea of exceling at Davis, especially if it is the only vet school I would want to consider, and seeing as how I am completing all my other prereqs at Davis, I don't want it to seem like I thought I was going to take the "easy" route by taking what I consider to be the most difficult courses at a CC. But, then I wonder if it would also seem like the "easy" route for me to take the bare minimum that Davis requires when I could take the more upper-level courses in Orgo and Physics that are offered here.

Anyways, I hope that makes sense. I just kind of jumbled all my thoughts together, sorry if that's hard to follow (I'm quickly sneaking this in at work!). Just looking for some thoughts! Thanks so much!

 

[bunnity]

Since Davis makes by far the most sense for you, I would say talk to someone there about what courses they would recommend for you to be a strong applicant. That way you could take the cheaper option if they didn't have a strong opinion either way.

Sorry I don't have a more concrete answer for you. I feel your pain about working for the school you're attending though - I have worked at my university's hospital for four years and many times would have loved to quit if it were not for them contributing to my tuition! I actually had to turn down a vet tech job because the hospital "owned" me for a year after the classes they paid for. Anyway, best of luck getting a solid answer on this and in doing your pre-req's!

 

[gracietiger]

hi bunnity -
thanks for your input! i actually have contacted Davis about this issue, awhile ago, and they gave me a pretty non-committal response. You know, the whole, we look at an applicant's entire application and circumstances, so it's impossible for us to say, etc etc etc....
I do know that most of the animal science majors take the "lower" - level courses. It seems that many people on this forum noted that they got into Davis - first try!- having taken the majority of their prereqs at a CC, which might indicate that Davis recognizes that anyone who excels at these courses, no matter where taken or at what level, is someone worth considering. I have heard horror stories about some professional schools (not just vet) not even looking at applications with courses taken at a CC, or "lower" - division courses, but it seems Davis may be different. Plus, if they specifically say they accept the course, then they must be okay with it.
But I don't want to talk myself into it just because it's significantly cheaper. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get in, but ideally, I could be competitive while not being in debt.
I totally hear you on working for the university thing. I had to leave an animal-related job (with exotics) in order to take these courses and work with plant genetics, which is so not what I intend to do. And in order to fulfill my position which grants me a tuition reduction, I have to put in full-time hours, which makes finding vet experience really difficult.

 

[sumstorm]

Could you ask Davis what percentage of accepted students have taken these courses compared to the other courses?

Also, are you otherwise a strong applicant? I think the big challenge always comes to the unknowns of the current (when your applying) applicant pool. If you are the same as 100 other applicants (same grades, experience, etc), except that they took the more intense courses, it seems obvious what the result will be (I realize that is very theoretical...no 2 applicants are exactly alike.)

 

[jglovicz]

sumstorm nailed it on the head. How is your GPA? My feeling, if you have a 4.0 overall or in your prereqs (slightly exaggerating, but you get the point), or if you have a strong GPA and some qualities that make you stand out, I don't think it will hurt you to take the lower one... is it really only 2 quarter credits (or did you convert it to semester credits)? I think if you're in the lower/average GPA range (under 3.5) that it might be worth taking the higher level one. Also, if you do well in it, that will be more credits to help boost your GPA if needed...
That said, if it was me, I think I would take the higher level course. I know it's expensive, but at the same time, if you get in to vet school on this application, it might be worth it (that, and, you will very likely be hundreds of thousands of dollars in the hole after vet school...just food for thought).
Good luck!

 

[gracietiger]

Hi guys,
Great advice. Sumstorm, I'm definitely going to email Davis and ask about the percentages...
My GPA from undergrad is about a 3.5. I attended a top 20 university, so I don't know if that is considered by the admissions committee, as a 3.5 could mean really different things at different schools. I graduated in 2005, and am in the beginning phases of taking the prereqs at Davis. So far, I have all A+'s, and to be honest, find the courses to be a lot easier than I expected, so I'm hoping to come out with a 4.0 in the prereqs from Davis.
And yes, the orgo is only 2 quarter credits - it has no lab either. It is kind of hard to imagine. A few of the undergrads I know seem to think most of the pre-vet students take these courses.
My other option, to save money, would be to take them at a CC. But again, I don't know if it's better to take a lower level course at Davis or a full year-long course at a CC.
I will try to get some specific numbers out of them!

Thanks guys!

 

[sumstorm]

To be honest, I hate sciences without labs (I am a tactile learner.) I didn't know orgo was offered without labs!

 

[gracietiger]

I went through my old emails corresponding with UC Davis, and realized I had asked them previously about how many students take the upper level courses versus the lower level physics and orgo. This was the response I received:


.You may take either series of Physics and Organic Chemistry. The Admissions Committee doesn’t weigh courses differently (that would be an impossible task for them to know all of the levels of courses at all colleges); therefore, you may take the series you wish. Do remember, however, that the veterinary program is a rigorous science-based curriculum and the courses are considered professional level.
.
.We don’t have statistics on UC Davis students and what series of courses they took. In most cases, students take the series required of their major..

..
Again, totally not helpful. If it is true that most pre-vet students take the series required of their major, and if most of those students are animal sci majors, then they would be completing the lower level courses.
I am quite shocked as well that the orgo, first quarter, has no lab. The second quarter does, but this series would save me a great deal of time and money. Also, I do know that many other vet schools do accept that orgo series, but most do not accept the lower level physics. Just UC Davis. I suppose, if after I apply for like three years and am not getting in and they inform me I should have taken the upper level courses, I can go ahead and do that. At this time, it sure as heck would be nice to save the couple grand.

The other thing is that the physics here at UC Davis is taught very non-traditionally at the pre-med level. I think it is more like PBL actually - there is no lecture, and there is five hours of discussion/lab per week. It is taught so that students are supposed to do "active" learning and figure out concepts of physics in these small groups. The TAs serve as "guides" and not as teachers. There is not really a text. I have heard horror stories about this course. And personally, I am not sure this style of teaching would be a good fit for me. I totally get what they're trying to do, and I think I would really enjoy PBL in vet school, however, in all honestly, I have zero interest in physics. I am not curious enough about physics to want to self-learn the material. I just want someone to tell me what happens and why, and then regurgitate that on an exam. The other sciences I totally dig, but physics, no thanks.
So, this is another factor in me wanting to take the lower level, traditionally taught physics course.
I'm just so torn! I want to take the lower level courses for financial reasons and time saved, and also because I am really not a fan of the upper level physics, but I also want to give myself the best chance possible to get accepted.

 

[gracietiger]

I hope I can address one more thing, for anybody who is still reading this thread!

Someone made a good point about how the upper level courses, being more credits, would boost my cumulative GPA a bit if I do well in them. My cum GPA, right now, is about a 3.5. In fact, my grades were totally brought down by C+s in Chem and Bio. I have pretty much all A's otherwise.
At the time that I took those science courses, like eight years ago, I had NO idea what I wanted to do, and was pretty sure I'd follow the family trend and go to law school.
Now, I've retaken those courses, and done very very well. Unfortunately, UC Davis will only average in my new grades with my old ones. UC Davis has told me that the prereq science GPA is the least that they consider.
So, I'm wondering how much I will be "punished" for those old courses. When we apply to vet school, do our numbers go into some spreadsheet that is just sifted through to weed people out, or is every single application entirely looked at? My feeling is that when I explain in a statement that I was pre-law, did not know that I wanted to pursue medicine, etc etc, this might be able to explain why I did not perform well in the science courses the first time I took them, but now that I know what I want to do, I am very capable. However, my numbers, like my cum GPA and my science prereq GPA, will not be stellar. My last 45 credit hours should be, but I'm afraid my past will haunt me through this whole process.
I would prefer to take the cheaper and faster courses. However, if you guys believe that I should really really focus on boosting those GPAs by taking the prereq courses with more credits, I'd have to reconsider. I also thought about boosting my cum GPA a bit more by taking additional non-required upper level science courses, as opposed to taking an Orgo and Physics that are not really required by UC Davis. Would it be more favorable to boost my GPA with a nutrition, anatomy, etc class over another quarter of an Orgo? Or, is my prereq GPA far too important to let those C+s from eight years ago get factored in?
I wish I could just erase those courses! I was a little kid then, totally clueless, but I feel like those grades could seriously hinder me!!

 

[sumstorm]

You might want to take a peak at the successful applicants thread. many of us got in with a similar GPA