debt ceiling and the financial crisis.

[CUninja]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

The subsidized loans are. I.E. only those covering tuition. If you borrowed more for living expenses, it's 2.11% right now.

Maybe where you went to school...but all my pharmacy school loans are at 6.8% with the exception of Grad plus being 7.9%. Although my sample size of 1 probably means just as much as your sample size of 1

For the person who said it was naive to believe that the government wouldnt raise its interest caps - 1) that still wouldnt effect already disbursed loans (loans already disbursed are a contract for both parties and all mine are fixed rate) and 2) I have a hard time believing a rise in student loan interest caps would pass Congress until Jan 2013 at the very earliest.

 

[CUninja]

It would take the reversal of TWO laws/regulations to make me pay more on my student loans.

1) up interest rates retroactively, which can happen, but has never happened. i'm too lazy to look at my promissory note, but if it's a contract with a set rate, it can't be changed and any change would be invalidated by the courts (i highly doubt there's a "interest rate is subject to change by congressional action" clause on it).

Quoted for truth. 👍

 

[WhiteSnows]

It would take the reversal of TWO laws/regulations to make me pay more on my student loans.

1) up interest rates retroactively, which can happen, but has never happened. i'm too lazy to look at my promissory note, but if it's a contract with a set rate, it can't be changed and any change would be invalidated by the courts (i highly doubt there's a "interest rate is subject to change by congressional action" clause on it).

2) rescinding the College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007, unlikely but possible.

i think you're incorrect in that the precedence with these programs are that washington has never clawed back programs in their entirety, the history is they've changed the rules for anyone new going forward but not retroactively (see: high-3 retirement in the US military, rules/regulations as applied to those newly ascended vs. previously served).

Let's assume that I do not know anything about washington except one thing:

They have to find other sources of money to pay its expenditure after they can't borrow money from foreign banks or public. It can be your salary's tax, your student loan, your car loan. And they have to cut back lot of programs such as NIH, FDA, Millitary, medicare, medicaid, social security. In fact, 45% of its expenditure will be cut.

In Florida, there is a new law that if you are working for welfare you must pass a drug test which cost around $45. So all of my friends who are doing their rotation have to spend additional $45 this year. Ridiculous law right? But that is how they make money.

 

[WhiteSnows]

Maybe where you went to school...but all my pharmacy school loans are at 6.8% with the exception of Grad plus being 7.9%. Although my sample size of 1 probably means just as much as your sample size of 1

For the person who said it was naive to believe that the government wouldnt raise its interest caps - 1) that still wouldnt effect already disbursed loans (loans already disbursed are a contract for both parties and all mine are fixed rate) and 2) I have a hard time believing a rise in student loan interest caps would pass Congress until Jan 2013 at the very earliest.

It really does not matter if they increase your student loan or not. At the end of your life, they will take money they need from you (any source) to pay for their expenditure.

 

[WhiteSnows]

Quoted for truth. 👍

Have the US made a promise to pay its debt to foreign? Yes. Just like they promise to keep your interest at 6.8%. But things change my friend. If the US can default its debt, they can increase your student loan's interests as well. It is the matter of time that they figure out how to do it legally. And who are the ones make laws? They are lawmakers in washington.

 

[R xxx]

too much testosterone lol

 

[confettiflyer]

It really does not matter if they increase your student loan or not. At the end of your life, they will take money they need from you (any source) to pay for their expenditure.

the hell random ass statement is this

you're late, it's called the estate tax, already been done.

 

[WhiteSnows]

the hell random ass statement is this

you're late, it's called the estate tax, already been done.

Well my friend, they will take the money from you any many ways. Things like increase gas prices, your house's mortgage, your food and drink. I can sit here and figure out many ways to take money from you.

 

[confettiflyer]

Have the US made a promise to pay its debt to foreign? Yes. Just like they promise to keep your interest at 6.8%. But things change my friend. If the US can default its debt, they can increase your student loan's interests as well. It is the matter of time that they figure out how to do it legally. And who are the ones make laws? They are lawmakers in washington.

i don't think you have a stern grasp on how law works. contracts like your promissory note are are governed by civil law whereas sovereign debt is covered by NO jurisdiction except the marketplace. There is no force behind t-bills except they are backed by the "full faith and credit" of the government, no court can compel a sovereign nation to pay its debt as that is a fundamental violation of the definition of "sovereignty."

contrast this to contracts which cannot be altered within the framework of the US legal system. Last I checked, that's still in force/intact, whether we pay debts or not.

 

[owlegrad]

Let's assume that I do not know anything about washington except one thing:

Done.

They have to find other sources of money to pay its expenditure after they can't borrow money from foreign banks or public. It can be your salary's tax, your student loan, your car loan. And they have to cut back lot of programs such as NIH, FDA, Millitary, medicare, medicaid, social security. In fact, 45% of its expenditure will be cut.

In Florida, there is a new law that if you are working for welfare you must pass a drug test which cost around $45. So all of my friends who are doing their rotation have to spend additional $45 this year. Ridiculous law right? But that is how they make money.

OK you have brought up car loans twice now. You understand that the loan for my car does not come from Washington, right? Washington has no ability to raise my car loan nor would it benefit them in any way.

 

[confettiflyer]

Well my friend, they will take the money from you any many ways. Things like increase gas prices, your house's mortgage, your food and drink. I can sit here and figure out many ways to take money from you.

uhm, you said end of your life...how the hell do i pay gas tax, mortgage... ah f*ck, it's like arguing with a dog now.

 

[confettiflyer]

Done.



OK you have brought up car loans twice now. You understand that the loan for my car does not come from Washington, right? Washington has no ability to raise my car loans nor would it benefit them in any way.

lol, i gave him a chance and promised not to make fun of his typos, grammar errors, etc...

but you can't have this argument with someone who fundamentally does not understand how things work.

so how about you and i argue? at least we're even, haha.

 

[owlegrad]

Well my friend, they will take the money from you any many ways. Things like increase gas prices, your house's mortgage, your food and drink. I can sit here and figure out many ways to take money from you.

I don't think you understand how the government makes money.

EDIT: My original statement was not nice. Sorry for any offense.

 

[owlegrad]

uhm, you said end of your life...how the hell do i pay gas tax, mortgage... ah f*ck, it's like arguing with a dog now.

That's not nice. 😆

lol, i gave him a chance and promised not to make fun of his typos, grammar errors, etc...

but you can't have this argument with someone who fundamentally does not understand how things work.

so how about you and i argue? at least we're even, haha.

Actually you said you were done in this thread, just can't help yourself can you? 😉

 

[confettiflyer]

That's not nice. 😆



Actually you said you were done in this thread, just can't help yourself can you? 😉

dinner's been delayed, actually no it's done...time to go eat and watch some HBO and play some Madden. God, I love rotations. I'll leave you with the puppy, peeeeaaaaacceeee 😎

 

[WhiteSnows]

Done.



OK you have brought up car loans twice now. You understand that the loan for my car does not come from Washington, right? Washington has no ability to raise my car loan nor would it benefit them in any way.

They can raise tax on people who sell you the car. And the people who sell you the car will ultimately raise interests on you.

 

[WhiteSnows]

That's not nice. 😆



Actually you said you were done in this thread, just can't help yourself can you? 😉

Yea, calling people a dog do not make him less than a dog.

 

[WhiteSnows]

I don't think you understand how the government makes money.

EDIT: My original statement was not nice. Sorry for any offense.

I do not need to understand how gov makes money. I know they will "get the money" from "YOU".

 

[WhiteSnows]

uhm, you said end of your life...how the hell do i pay gas tax, mortgage... ah f*ck, it's like arguing with a dog now.

Again, calling people a dog do not make you less than a dog.

DO you understand that they can raise interests on oil company? And oil company will raise the gas price, then you will pay more? It is that simple. You are so naive to live in this world. I am laughing so hard to know that there are still lot of people like you who think this world is governed by Justice.

 

[samuricool]

Why did I actually expect an interesting conversation about the debt ceiling when all I got was an argument with the village idiot. . . . I should have known.

 

[confettiflyer]

Why did I actually expect an interesting conversation about the debt ceiling when all I got was an argument with the village idiot. . . . I should have known.

hahahah, it's kind of funny, it's like shooting a laser pointer around the wall and watching a cat run after it.

 

[owlegrad]

Why did I actually expect an interesting conversation about the debt ceiling when all I got was an argument with the village idiot. . . . I should have known.

I am game for an interesting conversation. What is your take on the whole debt crisis?

 

[owlegrad]

hahahah, it's kind of funny, it's like shooting a laser pointer around the wall and watching a cat run after it.

And how was dinner?

 

[confettiflyer]

And how was dinner?

oh it was great, then i played that new harry potter game. then i did some laundry. mmmm....yeah that's about it.

oh apparently there was a debt ceiling deal reached...yeah see this is why i don't give a ****, it's all posturing and blowing of hot air, kind of like SDN!

 

[owlegrad]

oh it was great, then i played that new harry potter game. then i did some laundry. mmmm....yeah that's about it.

oh apparently there was a debt ceiling deal reached...yeah see this is why i don't give a ****, it's all posturing and blowing of hot air, kind of like SDN!

Gah! Now we are robbed of having a great conversation! But we all knew this was coming. Well, most of us.

 

[confettiflyer]

Gah! Now we are robbed of having a great conversation! But we all knew this was coming. Well, most of us.

what? you mean the government is going to come in and unilaterally raise the interest rate on my moped?!?!

 

[owlegrad]

what? you mean the government is going to come in and unilaterally raise the interest rate on my moped?!?!

They have to get your money somehow! If you know a better way for the government to raise income than raising the cost of mopeds, I would love to hear it!

 

[confettiflyer]

They have to get your money somehow! If you know a better way for the government to raise income than raising the cost of mopeds, I would love to hear it!

Stealing my blood and selling the plasma to China. Because I guess it'll be worth less tomorrow because of infations and interests. You never know what the governments can doos.

 

[owlegrad]

Stealing my blood and selling the plasma to China. Because I guess it'll be worth less tomorrow because of infations and interests. You never know what the governments can doos.

I hear they have a terrible platelet shortage, so that may work.

Dude, you crack me up.

I guess we can conjecture on the bargain that was tentatively reached. My impression is that the Democrats really are terrible negotiators. I swear sometime I feel like the Dems think winning involves giving the Republicans everything they want. Spending cuts? Really? It's not like we are in a recession or anything. 🙄 Don't get me wrong, I am all for fiscal responsibility, but geez...

Do you have any thoughts on the matter?

 

[StevePerry]

It would take the reversal of TWO laws/regulations to make me pay more on my student loans.

1) up interest rates retroactively, which can happen, but has never happened. i'm too lazy to look at my promissory note, but if it's a contract with a set rate, it can't be changed and any change would be invalidated by the courts (i highly doubt there's a "interest rate is subject to change by congressional action" clause on it).

2) rescinding the College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007, unlikely but possible.

i think you're incorrect in that the precedence with these programs are that washington has never clawed back programs in their entirety, the history is they've changed the rules for anyone new going forward but not retroactively (see: high-3 retirement in the US military, rules/regulations as applied to those newly ascended vs. previously served).

Why does anyone ever argue with you on here? A subconscious personal desire to get "PWNED" or something?

 

[owlegrad]

Why does anyone ever argue with you on here? A subconscious personal desire to get "PWNED" or something?

Some users need to have an allergy warning bracelet for factual/rational arguments.

 

[confettiflyer]

I hear they have a terrible platelet shortage, so that may work.

Dude, you crack me up.

I guess we can conjecture on the bargain that was tentatively reached. My impression is that the Democrats really are terrible negotiators. I swear sometime I feel like the Dems think winning involves giving the Republicans everything they want. Spending cuts? Really? It's not like we are in a recession or anything. 🙄 Don't get me wrong, I am all for fiscal responsibility, but geez...

Do you have any thoughts on the matter?

I think barry is a pawn by default, he's stuck with a stubborn legislature that can't get anything done, and has to give away the store to even get them to the table. i mean, i used to agree with a lot of tea party stuff, then they came around and said we shouldn't even close tax loopholes and talked about how our business taxes are high (they are, on paper, but no one ever pays them).

i'm all for spending cuts too, but even as much as I hate krugman, he's right...austerity in a recession doesn't work, just look at the UK.

that said, eventually once this blows over I want to see SS, medi/medi, etc.. all severely curtailed. Gov't should just stick to giving us good roads, some safety regulations (EPA, FAA, et al) and education, and leave us to our own devices about what to do after that. I do like the ideas of SS and medicare for when you're old (and for those genuinely disabled from birth/accidents), but FFS needs to take a hike, managed care is the way to go.

 

[confettiflyer]

Why does anyone ever argue with you on here? A subconscious personal desire to get "PWNED" or something?

one day i'm gonna get pwned in a thread and it will be the most awesome discussion ever. granted, i don't dive into a discussion unless i know i can handle it mentally, so don't know if this will happen soon.

 

[pezdispenser]

What do you think about this part of the bill?

SEC. 502. TERMINATION OF AUTHORITY TO MAKE INTEREST SUBSIDIZED LOANS TO GRADUATE AND PROFESSIONAL STUDENTS.
Section 455(a) of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1087e(a)) is amended by adding at the end the following new paragraph:
‘‘(3) TERMINATION OF AUTHORITY TO MAKE INTEREST SUBSIDIZED LOANS TO GRADUATE AND PROFESSIONAL STUDENTS.—
‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—Subject to subparagraph (B) and notwithstanding any provision of this part or part B, for any period of instruction beginning on or after July 1, 2012—
‘‘(i) a graduate or professional student shall not be eligible to receive a Federal Direct Stafford loan under this part; and
‘‘(ii) the maximum annual amount of Federal Direct Unsubsidized Stafford loans such a student may borrow in any academic year (as defined in section 481(a)(2)) or its equivalent shall be the maximum annual amount for such student determined under section 428H, plus an amount equal to the amount of Federal Direct Stafford loans the student would have received in the absence of this subparagraph.
‘‘(B) EXCEPTION.—Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to an individual enrolled in course work specified in paragraph (3)(B) or (4)(B) of section 484(b).’’.
SEC. 503. TERMINATION OF DIRECT LOAN REPAYMENT INCENTIVES.
Section 455(b)(8) of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1087e(b)(8)) is amended—
(1) in subparagraph (A)—
(A) by amending the header to read as follows: ‘‘(A) INCENTIVES FOR LOANS DISBURSED BEFORE JULY 1, 2012.—’’; and
(B) by inserting ‘‘with respect to loans for which the first disbursement of principal is made before July 1, 2012,’’ after ‘‘of this part’’;
(2) in subparagraph (B), by inserting ‘‘with respect to loans for which the first disbursement of principal is made before July 1, 2012’’ after ‘‘repayment incentives’’; and
(3) by adding at the end the following new subparagraph:
‘‘(C) NO REPAYMENT INCENTIVES FOR NEW LOANS DISBURSED ON OR AFTER JULY 1, 2012.—Notwithstanding any other provision of this part, the Secretary is prohibited from authorizing or providing any repayment incentive not otherwise authorized under this part to encourage on-time repayment of a loan under this part for which the first disbursement of principal is made on or after July 1, 2012, including any reduction in the interest or origination fee rate paid by a borrower of such a loan, except that the Secretary may provide for an interest rate reduction for a borrower who agrees to have payments on such a loan automatically electronically debited from a bank account.’’.

I take it to mean that there will be no more subsidized Stafford Loans for pharmacy students after July 1, 2012.

Section 503 doesn't change much because lenders have not been offering incentives for the past few years.

 

[owlegrad]

I can't figure out this part.

(B) EXCEPTION.—Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to an individual enrolled in course work specified in paragraph (3)(B) or (4)(B) of section 484(b).

Who does that apply to?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I read the bill.

It's a piece of ****.

Basically, poor people get ****ed in the ass because none of this **** will help jobs. (of course, nothing will at this point...) Rich people continue to be undertaxed. The Koch brothers and Warren Buffett will continue paying a lower effective tax rate than me. Not enough cuts...not enough taxes.

We continue to be led by idiots.

I figure I got until 2025 until we become a total plutocracy. Hopefully I'll have amassed enough of a fortune to move to Canada by then.

 

[pezdispenser]

(B) EXCEPTION.—Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to an individual enrolled in course work specified in paragraph (3)(B) or (4)(B) of section 484(b).’

Ok, I was just looking that up. I think (3)(B) is for pre-requisite courses and (4)(B) is for teachers.

 

[owlegrad]

Well...I am speechless. Unbelievably weak.

 

[Judgment Dragon]

Well...I am speechless. Unbelievably weak.

Has the bill been officially passed? 😕

 

[R2pharmD2]

Ok, I was just looking that up. I think (3)(B) is for pre-requisite courses and (4)(B) is for teachers.

That's the way I understand it.

It hasn't officially been passed yet, but we're going to default on the debt if this bill doesn't pass, so it's looking like it will right now. I think other versions of the debt ceiling bill floating around had similar language anyway.

 

[Ilikechemicals]

My debt plan is rather simple.

Kill the top 400 richest people...take their money, stocks, and riches. Being that they own literally 50% of the wealth in the US, it would solve everything.

Then give it to me and I'll fix everything.

Thank You for you consideration.

For a rich person it sure is interesting that you have such hatred for them. With your 120k (at least) salary that places you in the top 10 percent. I do believe you said your wife is a pharmacist (or soon to be.)

So lets see, with your combined income, that puts you in the top 3ish probably 2% of the country.

As a representitive of the rich how much are you willing to give?

 

[Judgment Dragon]

That's the way I understand it.

It hasn't officially been passed yet, but we're going to default on the debt if this bill doesn't pass, so it's looking like it will right now. I think other versions of the debt ceiling bill floating around had similar language anyway.

Does this mean that we either default on our own debt or we pass the bill to raise the debt ceiling but in doing so it would take away subsidized loans? 😕

 

[pezdispenser]

No subsidized Staffords will mean an extra $6,358 in interest at 6.8% if you take $4,250 x 8 semesters + 6 month grace period.

 

[WhiteSnows]

No subsidized Staffords will mean an extra $6,358 in interest at 6.8% if you take $4,250 x 8 semesters + 6 month grace period.

Awesome, i know they will cut something, not surprised to know student loan will be the first. And someone in this forum still thinks that the gov is to be trust should know by know that it is not true.

Again, Gov will do whatever it takes including breaking promises to cut spending.

 

[confettiflyer]

Not a big deal, your interest will start capitalizing right away for the remaining part of your loan.

Not an issue if you're maxed out on loans going to a private school. If you're borrowing $40k for tuition + living expenses, pre-2012 it was split up $8,500 max subsidized loan, $31,500 mix of unsub/gradplus/institutional/etc...

Your loan balances will be higher, but again... if you fall under IBR/PSLF (i preach the gospel, lol), your monthly AND total payments are the same.

Most affected: those borrowing < $8,500 per year will see the highest proportion of cost increases, generally those entering in the fall of 2012 (c/o 2016) unless they fall into another category.

Somewhat affected: those going into private firms/retail work who take out large loans (your balance will rise slightly due to capitalized interest on the remaining unsubsidized loans), those working for 501(c)(3) or gov't institutions who have low loan balances and will not qualify under IBR/PSLF or will make their final payment before the 10 year payoff mark.

Not affected: those working for 501(c)(3) or gov't institutions who take out large loan balances and qualify for IBR/PSLF, those graduating before 2012, those currently working.

 

[WhiteSnows]

Not a big deal, your interest will start capitalizing right away for the remaining part of your loan.

Not an issue if you're maxed out on loans going to a private school. If you're borrowing $40k for tuition + living expenses, pre-2012 it was split up $8,500 max subsidized loan, $31,500 mix of unsub/gradplus/institutional/etc...

Your loan balances will be higher, but again... if you fall under IBR/PSLF (i preach the gospel, lol), your monthly AND total payments are the same.

Most affected: those borrowing < $8,500 per year will see the highest proportion of cost increases, generally those entering in the fall of 2012 (c/o 2016) unless they fall into another category.

Somewhat affected: those going into private firms/retail work who take out large loans (your balance will rise slightly due to capitalized interest on the remaining unsubsidized loans), those working for 501(c)(3) or gov't institutions who have low loan balances and will not qualify under IBR/PSLF or will make their final payment before the 10 year payoff mark.

Not affected: those working for 501(c)(3) or gov't institutions who take out large loan balances and qualify for IBR/PSLF, those graduating before 2012, those currently working.

Lol, you are still living in the well.

 

[confettiflyer]

Lol, you are still living in the well.

😕

I guess our entertainment has arrived for the evening!

 

[lorain]

I read the bill.

It's a piece of ****.

Basically, poor people get ****ed in the ass because none of this **** will help jobs. (of course, nothing will at this point...) Rich people continue to be undertaxed. The Koch brothers and Warren Buffett will continue paying a lower effective tax rate than me. Not enough cuts...not enough taxes.

We continue to be led by idiots.

I figure I got until 2025 until we become a total plutocracy. Hopefully I'll have amassed enough of a fortune to move to Canada by then.

ive read it and analyzed it, and its a POS

honestly, i cant believe what they are doing there...there is no debt ceiling crisis, there is a jobs crisis in this country....spending cuts alone doesnt solve anything. and whats the point of this commitee? no 1 took the gang of 6 any seriously, so how is anything going to change?

the R are too stuck up on no taxes, the D have no skills in negotiations, its really a bad mix all together

 

[owlegrad]

Your loan balances will be higher, but again... if you fall under IBR/PSLF (i preach the gospel, lol), your monthly AND total payments are the same.

If washingtons is already ending student loans, who do you thinks are next? IBR no doubt. They will get your money anyway they can!

But seriously, I wouldn't count on IBR/PSLF if graduate students can't even get Stanford loans. I do so hate to be a doom/gloom poster, but I can't help but think the writing is on the wall with this one.

 

[WhiteSnows]

If washingtons is already ending student loans, who do you thinks are next? IBR no doubt. They will get your money anyway they can!

But seriously, I wouldn't count on IBR/PSLF if graduate students can't even get Stanford loans. I do so hate to be a doom/gloom poster, but I can't help but think the writing is on the wall with this one.

This is exactly what I said yesterday. Now you understand what I mean. Sorry sometimes I say a future thing that is not yet to come and make you all confuse.