DEBT!!! is it worth it?

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rangicks cowars

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If a person goes to pharmacy school and graduates with a total of around $150,000-$175,000 is it really worth it(undergraduate included)? I find pharmacy pretty interesting, but with all this debt you could get a lower stress job that pays around $60,000 with less debt. Also,I heard that you take away 30% of your salary for taxes so the average %100,000 - 30,000$= $70,000. If you want to pay off your debt in 15 years that is ~ 12,000 at least per year (not including interest rate). Leaving you with ~ $55,000 per year for food, housing, entertainment, etc. With this concept having an $80,000 job and 30% of that goes to tax, leaves you ~$55,000. A floor broker ($80,000/yr) would then have the same earnings as a pharmacist for 15 years. That said, is all that stress worth it? Also, let me know if this is an unrealistic view on everything. Based on what i've seen this is what I get.
 
rangicks cowars said:
If a person goes to pharmacy school and graduates with a total of around $150,000-$175,000 is it really worth it(undergraduate included)? I find pharmacy pretty interesting, but with all this debt you could get a lower stress job that pays around $60,000 with less debt. Also,I heard that you take away 30% of your salary for taxes so the average %100,000 - 30,000$= $70,000. If you want to pay off your debt in 15 years that is ~ 12,000 at least per year (not including interest rate). Leaving you with ~ $55,000 per year for food, housing, entertainment, etc. With this concept having an $80,000 job and 30% of that goes to tax, leaves you ~$55,000. A floor broker ($80,000/yr) would then have the same earnings as a pharmacist for 15 years. That said, is all that stress worth it? Also, let me know if this is an unrealistic view on everything. Based on what i've seen this is what I get.
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Questions: (1) Have you ever had a job in the real world? (2) Have you ever lived financially independent on yourself and yourself alone?

This is going to be EXTREMELY terse, but to answer your question ... Yes, you have an INCREDIBLY unrealistic view on everything.

As someone who is making approximately $55K/year BEFORE TAXES with a graduate degree in Chemistry (not including the student loan debt that I have to pay on a monthly basis) ... it's quite confusing that you're pondering whether or not $55K/year AFTER taxes is worthwhile.

I may be out of line with my disgust for this post, but seriously ... if you are pondering whether or not you can survive on $55K/year AFTER taxes, I wonder what lifestyle you were accustomed to growing up because it was much different than the lifestyle that I have lived for 30+ years.
 
I agree with chemguy, have you ever supported yourself independently? I have done so since I graduated high school and with your calculations $55k take home is not that bad. However, I think your tax rate is quite high I have never paid 30% ever there are ways to avoid that 401k, Flex Spending, etc....

you could also live life less expensive for a few years and pay everything back.

I know a few people who are paying back $30k a year and just renting a tiny place for the time, but will have everything paid off very quickly and with less interest.
 
Wait, a floor broker, you mean the people at the NYSE?? You think that's less stress than a pharmacist? Have you ever been to the NYSE?

And I'd like to echo what Chemguy said. You're not looking at the bigger picture. Furthermore, "worth it" is completely subjective.

Will you ever be able to pay cash for a Ferrari on a pharmacist's salary? Not likely. But you'll be miles and miles away from destitute...
 
I think i'm misreading this post but I do not see where the OP mentions whether or not 55k is good enough to live off of. All i got from it was OP asking if the debt accrue through pharmacy school is worth it compared to another career field with less invested in education.

Please correct me if i'm wrong. and lol about the being a broker in stress level comparison.
 
PSLF + IBR

I'll pay the same thing whether my loan balance is $200k or $200M

::yawn::
 
rangicks cowars said:
If a person goes to pharmacy school and graduates with a total of around $150,000-$175,000 is it really worth it(undergraduate included)? I find pharmacy pretty interesting, but with all this debt you could get a lower stress job that pays around $60,000 with less debt. Also,I heard that you take away 30% of your salary for taxes so the average %100,000 - 30,000$= $70,000. If you want to pay off your debt in 15 years that is ~ 12,000 at least per year (not including interest rate). Leaving you with ~ $55,000 per year for food, housing, entertainment, etc. With this concept having an $80,000 job and 30% of that goes to tax, leaves you ~$55,000. A floor broker ($80,000/yr) would then have the same earnings as a pharmacist for 15 years. That said, is all that stress worth it? Also, let me know if this is an unrealistic view on everything. Based on what i've seen this is what I get.
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The debt is worth it if you can pay back your loans without defaulting.
 
I think it all depends on your priorities. I earn 20k a year before taxes and am able to pay the bills. I'm not able to go out very often, but that's the sacrifice I made because I wanted my job more than I wanted to be comfortable. That is just where my priority is. If you really wanted to go to pharmacy school, you would make that your priority. You might not be able to buy that expensive house right out of college, but I truly believe the debt will be managable. A lot of people here in Arizona make payments on 250k mortgages while making much less than pharmacists typically make. So, there is no reason you can't live comfortably off 55k.
 
I have never supported myself in the sense you are talking about chemguy. I am 16 years old. I pay for my food, gas, entertainment, etc. No reason to be disgusted with the post I was just wondering how the "real world" was like before I decide about my future. And as for the lifestytle question, I don't mind living in a small town home. Actually I prefer smaller homes but would still like to be able to go to the lake, golf, and do a lot of stuff outdoors. Didn't mean to "disgust" you with my curiosity...
 
FuzionR said:
I think i'm misreading this post but I do not see where the OP mentions whether or not 55k is good enough to live off of. All i got from it was OP asking if the debt accrue through pharmacy school is worth it compared to another career field with less invested in education.

Please correct me if i'm wrong. and lol about the being a broker in stress level comparison.
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Yes thank you, at least one person doesn't take this post the wrong way.
 
It depends on many factors. As a general rule, going to the public professional school is worthy. As for attending the private professional school, it depends on what is your other option. For an example, going to a private pharmacy school might not be worthy if you can go to a public PA school. Going to a private pharmacy school might not be worthy if you can go to a petroleum engineering school.

Also, not knowing the future salary and working condition of the health care job, it is hard to say one way or another. If the new health care law results in a decrease in the salary of the health care workers, it may not be worthy going to the private professional schools. Look at the health care workers in the other countries with a socialized medicine. In Australia, many pharmacists are about to quit as their salaries have dropped. When you decide to go to a professional school, you are taking a risk as to what will be the reward. Going to a nurse program is less riskier than going to a PA program. Going to a PA program is less riskier than going to a pharmacy school. Going to a pharmacy school is less riskier than going to a dental school. Going to a dental school is less riskier than going to a medical school.

Another factor to consider is your ability. The top 10 percentage of nursers can make more money than the bottom 10 percentage of pharmacists. Especially, if there is oversupply of the pharmacists, it might be better off to be a top 20 percentage of nurses than to be a bottom 20 percentage of pharmacists.

The best thing to do is to try to go to the public school. If you have to go to the private school, make sure you will like the profession as the money is not every thing when it comes to the career and make sure you can be at least the top 2/3 of your profession.
 
rangicks cowars said:
If a person goes to pharmacy school and graduates with a total of around $150,000-$175,000 is it really worth it(undergraduate included)? I find pharmacy pretty interesting, but with all this debt you could get a lower stress job that pays around $60,000 with less debt. Also,I heard that you take away 30% of your salary for taxes so the average %100,000 - 30,000$= $70,000. If you want to pay off your debt in 15 years that is ~ 12,000 at least per year (not including interest rate). Leaving you with ~ $55,000 per year for food, housing, entertainment, etc. With this concept having an $80,000 job and 30% of that goes to tax, leaves you ~$55,000. A floor broker ($80,000/yr) would then have the same earnings as a pharmacist for 15 years. That said, is all that stress worth it? Also, let me know if this is an unrealistic view on everything. Based on what i've seen this is what I get.
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Well, for starters your repayment calculations are extremely low. Google loan repayment calculators to see just how much you'd have to pay back. Someone taking out $200K in loans at 6.8% interest rate can look at about $2,300 per month for ten years. If you try to pay it back in 25 years it's lower, but personally I want to pay mine off sooner than later because you're just paying more in interest in the long run.

When I graduate, I expect my take-home after taxes and loan payments to not be much more than what I make now as a tech. I'm going into it knowing that though, and I'm ok with it. I don't have an extravagant lifestyle, but I'm comfortable. Yes, I'll have to put off a house and whatnot while I'm paying down my loans, but it's still worth it to me because it's what I genuinely want to do. Many people don't feel the same way, and are hoping to have the better lifestyle that comes with a pharmacist's salary. It's those people that might want to look into something with less of a cost investment like nursing or accounting.
 
You should use the loan calculators provided online. If I take out the MAX loans (already doing that), I would graduate with ~165K in debt. To pay them off in 10 years = ~$1800 a month.

Even if you take home $70K after taxes (and that is being conservative for the starting salaries where I work currently and in the area), that is still like ~$5800 a month! I mean, seriously... you cannot pay a mortgage, car, bills with ~$4K a month??? You're crazy, bro.
 
rxlea said:
You should use the loan calculators provided online. If I take out the MAX loans (already doing that), I would graduate with ~165K in debt. To pay them off in 10 years = ~$1800 a month.

Even if you take home $70K after taxes (and that is being conservative for the starting salaries where I work currently and in the area), that is still like ~$5800 a month! I mean, seriously... you cannot pay a mortgage, car, bills with ~$4K a month??? You're crazy, bro.
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Ahhh what it is to be young again. I'm a little older and doing a career change to pharmacy. I've gotta pay the mortgage, car and bills with 2400 take home pay...sooooooo thats why I'm busting my arse trying to do pharm so that I can improve that to 5800k...conservatively speaking. With that much take home I'm in a whole different universe as to where I am now.
 
WOOOOW..OP just stop... First of all... Remove yourself from your mothers nippple and daddys wallet... Just want to take it easy and play golf eh? Wow to be young. dumb, and rich.... To dream... Secondly, you have to be extremely smart to be a pharmacist and I hope you can overcome this in university. Moving on, brokers??? lol.... Brokers dont make anything.... However, equity traders make way more then that on the NYSE... They kill it.... Pharmacy is a passion, not a paycheck. 5k a month to live off of would be increadible.... Wow, I would be jealous. I was able to scate buy and support myself on $20 an hour last summer. Oh to be young and dumb. I am really concerned about the more and more people coming on here only talking about pharmacy and wether it is worth the debt and paycheck. You either want to do it or you dont. There are plenty of other careers where you dont have to go into debt and make lots of money. My buddy works 35-40 hours a week and makes 82k his first year out of undergrad..
 
My buddy works 35-40 hours a week and makes 82k his first year out of undergrad..[/QUOTE]

Doing what?
 
There are some jobs, certainly, that you can make 80 grand a year or more right out of undergrad. No one denies that, because it's true. One of my best friends is a building inspector / hazardous materials coordinator with just a B.S. in Bio Sci and started at 77k and with step increases he's now nearly 90k... But it's the exception, not the rule.
 
Passion4Sci said:
There are some jobs, certainly, that you can make 80 grand a year or more right out of undergrad. No one denies that, because it's true. One of my best friends is a building inspector / hazardous materials coordinator with just a B.S. in Bio Sci and started at 77k and with step increases he's now nearly 90k... But it's the exception, not the rule.
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I knew a few engineers making 70K+ after college. They had internships over the summers they were off during undergrad and got hired on the spot. It's definitely possible to get a decent starting job after college. It all depends on your major (and how hard you want to work at it).
 
armorking said:
I knew a few engineers making 70K+ after college. They had internships over the summers they were off during undergrad and got hired on the spot. It's definitely possible to get a decent starting job after college. It all depends on your major (and how hard you want to work at it).
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Possible, absolutely. But it's not common. For every engineer starting at 70k+ there's also an engineering student who is starting at 40k. *shrug*
 
momoneythenu said:
WOOOOW..OP just stop... First of all... Remove yourself from your mothers nippple and daddys wallet... Just want to take it easy and play golf eh? Wow to be young. dumb, and rich.... To dream... Secondly, you have to be extremely smart to be a pharmacist and I hope you can overcome this in university. Moving on, brokers??? lol.... Brokers dont make anything.... However, equity traders make way more then that on the NYSE... They kill it.... Pharmacy is a passion, not a paycheck. 5k a month to live off of would be increadible.... Wow, I would be jealous. I was able to scate buy and support myself on $20 an hour last summer. Oh to be young and dumb. I am really concerned about the more and more people coming on here only talking about pharmacy and wether it is worth the debt and paycheck. You either want to do it or you dont. There are plenty of other careers where you dont have to go into debt and make lots of money. My buddy works 35-40 hours a week and makes 82k his first year out of undergrad..
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I never said that wasn't enough money... I said some less stressful jobs have the possibility to make the same as a pharmacist when you factor in debt. It's amazing how many people on here can't read and comprehend a short passage. You somewhat answered my question though (added me saying that it wasn't enough money), props to you!
 
nyc76 said:
Ahhh what it is to be young again. I'm a little older and doing a career change to pharmacy. I've gotta pay the mortgage, car and bills with 2400 take home pay...sooooooo thats why I'm busting my arse trying to do pharm so that I can improve that to 5800k...conservatively speaking. With that much take home I'm in a whole different universe as to where I am now.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I was making ~40-45K a year prior to pharmacy school (pre-tax) and I was living a decent life. Making 70K TAKE HOME? I won't know what to do with myself! Even if you dump 2000-2100 a month on your loans, you are still living quite nicely. Yes, it depends on the cost of living in your location as well, but you can buy a decent home/car and still be banking some cash. I mean, wth are you buying EVERY MONTH with that money that would leave you broke? Even after you have all the electronics and toys you want (after, say, 4-5 months of pure spending all your cash) what more are you going to buy? If you have kids, yes you will have less... but so many people here are crying and whining that they won't have enough for their single life! I am confused. 😕
 
rxlea said:
Exactly. I was making ~40-45K a year prior to pharmacy school (pre-tax) and I was living a decent life. Making 70K TAKE HOME? I won't know what to do with myself! Even if you dump 2000-2100 a month on your loans, you are still living quite nicely. Yes, it depends on the cost of living in your location as well, but you can buy a decent home/car and still be banking some cash. I mean, wth are you buying EVERY MONTH with that money that would leave you broke? Even after you have all the electronics and toys you want (after, say, 4-5 months of pure spending all your cash) what more are you going to buy? If you have kids, yes you will have less... but so many people here are crying and whining that they won't have enough for their single life! I am confused. 😕
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Thank You!

I think that those of us who have had real world work experience prior to pharmacy school are in a much different boat than those who are applying out of high school or after a year of college experience. I strongly believe that pharmacy schools should mandate a degree and work experience be completed prior to attending professional school. Any MBA program worth its weight mandates years in the work force before pursuing a professional degree. I think that knowing what you're missing (i.e., $35-40K with a Bachelor's degree and student loan debt) before taking on $100K+ debt for a job which will pay you $100K+ yearly will reduce the number of posters questioning whether or not this is "worth it."

I have never supported myself in the sense you are talking about chemguy. I am 16 years old. I pay for my food, gas, entertainment, etc. No reason to be disgusted with the post I was just wondering how the "real world" was like before I decide about my future. And as for the lifestytle question, I don't mind living in a small town home. Actually I prefer smaller homes but would still like to be able to go to the lake, golf, and do a lot of stuff outdoors. Didn't mean to "disgust" you with my curiosity...
Click to expand...

OP, when you are questioning whether or not the effort (education and loans) is "worth it" while you have no experience in supporting yourself (paying for gas, food, entertainment when you're living at home isn't really supporting yourself) & you're still in high school ... It would be beneficial for you to take a step back and understand that (1) Yes, this is how the world works when you pursue professional schooling in any career (accruing a huge debt and paying it off with your glorious income) and (2) acting indignant towards those who are finding your concerns unreasonable reflects more on you than those who replied to your message.
 
rxlea said:
Exactly. I was making ~40-45K a year prior to pharmacy school (pre-tax) and I was living a decent life. Making 70K TAKE HOME? I won't know what to do with myself! Even if you dump 2000-2100 a month on your loans, you are still living quite nicely.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the same way I think, I am in almost the exact same boat as you and I wouldn’t have a clue what to do with the excess cash. I am going to use that to my advantage and try to live frugal for a while and pay down that debt.
 
Pharmacist troller here. IMO I think with a debt of 165k it would still be worth it. I was able to pay my 53k loan in 8.5 months. I made 7k a month after taxes. My rent was 675$, utilities about 100$, internet 35$, entertainment about 100, food 100, gas 100, and lets sa unexpected expenses at 50. So add that together I spent around 1,200 a month estimated. I then proceeded to put the rest into loans and kept a little extra just in case

At 165k, if you are single with no kids and no obligations to anything else, you can pay it off in under 3 years and still have enough money to live comfortably. So, to answer the question it is definitely worth it IF you can get a low-stress, good paying job. Thats stating the obvious though.
 
jasonkido said:
Pharmacist troller here. IMO I think with a debt of 165k it would still be worth it. I was able to pay my 53k loan in 8.5 months. I made 7k a month after taxes. My rent was 675$, utilities about 100$, internet 35$, entertainment about 100, food 100, gas 100, and lets sa unexpected expenses at 50. So add that together I spent around 1,200 a month estimated. I then proceeded to put the rest into loans and kept a little extra just in case

At 165k, if you are single with no kids and no obligations to anything else, you can pay it off in under 3 years and still have enough money to live comfortably. So, to answer the question it is definitely worth it IF you can get a low-stress, good paying job. Thats stating the obvious though.
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How on earth did you only spend $100/month on food??? That boggles my mind. Do you eat nothing but peanut butter from the jar? 😕

I agree with most of the other stuff you posted, but $100 for food is beyond incredible.
 
jasonkido said:
Pharmacist troller here. IMO I think with a debt of 165k it would still be worth it. I was able to pay my 53k loan in 8.5 months. I made 7k a month after taxes. My rent was 675$, utilities about 100$, internet 35$, entertainment about 100, food 100, gas 100, and lets sa unexpected expenses at 50. So add that together I spent around 1,200 a month estimated. I then proceeded to put the rest into loans and kept a little extra just in case

At 165k, if you are single with no kids and no obligations to anything else, you can pay it off in under 3 years and still have enough money to live comfortably. So, to answer the question it is definitely worth it IF you can get a low-stress, good paying job. Thats stating the obvious though.
Click to expand...

That's the only thing that concerns me. If I were single I would do just what you did (I can live off of pb&j and ramen if I have to), but being able to support everyone else... that scares me.
 
pharmschooler said:
How on earth did you only spend $100/month on food??? That boggles my mind. Do you eat nothing but peanut butter from the jar? 😕

I agree with most of the other stuff you posted, but $100 for food is beyond incredible.
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lol Yeah, actually thats almost accurate. My mom cooked me plenty of frozen meals every month that I take home. I only shop for things that expire quickly like bread, eggs, vegetables and fruit. I ate out at fast food joints occasionally and rarely went out to eat. For the average joe, I guess 200-300$ a month but remember that you are only shopping for yourself so I think even that amount is high
 
chemguy79 said:
Thank You!

I think that those of us who have had real world work experience prior to pharmacy school are in a much different boat than those who are applying out of high school or after a year of college experience.
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Thank You x2.

I bolded the part that resonated the strongest with me. Anyone who wonders about living on six figures (even as gross) is so far removed from my own frame of reference that I cannot identify with them at all. No one in my family has a household income anywhere near 100k. Somehow we manage to have cars, houses, children, etc. If you can't do it on 100k, I have no advice for you. Try working for around 30k for a few years and then talk to me about if 70k net is "worth it".

I also wonder what I am going to do with all my change. I am naturally frugal, so perhaps I will get a wife who is willing to help me spend it? Maybe I will spoil my children rotten? Vacations? Hard to say at this point. Finance my bout of impending unemployment?
 
confettiflyer said:
PSLF + IBR

I'll pay the same thing whether my loan balance is $200k or $200M

::yawn::
Click to expand...

Do you watch the news? Do you not see the impending 4 Trillion dollars of cuts? Let me tell you how many lobbyists are working for indebted students... zero. This is the low hanging fruit of austerity. These federal student loans will never be forgiven. Not for well paying professions like the medical fields. They will garnish wages and intercept tax refunds.
 
awval999 said:
Do you watch the news? Do you not see the impending 4 Trillion dollars of cuts? Let me tell you how many lobbyists are working for indebted students... zero. This is the low hanging fruit of austerity. These federal student loans will never be forgiven. Not for well paying professions like the medical fields. They will garnish wages and intercept tax refunds.
Click to expand...

Absolutely no disrespect intended here, but where'd you get your crystal ball and can I buy one? I could use some auspex...

True, there are cuts coming almost assuredly, but we know absolutely nothing right now, as those "politicians" are still quibbling.
 
awval999 said:
Do you watch the news? Do you not see the impending 4 Trillion dollars of cuts? Let me tell you how many lobbyists are working for indebted students... zero. This is the low hanging fruit of austerity. These federal student loans will never be forgiven. Not for well paying professions like the medical fields. They will garnish wages and intercept tax refunds.
Click to expand...

lol...the law passed in 2007, you missed the boat there.
 
confettiflyer said:
lol...the law passed in 2007, you missed the boat there.
Click to expand...

You know that all it takes is one law to stop it right? You know that the first "forgiveness" doesn't take place until 2017. Plenty of time to cancel the program.

You have fun maxing out those loans. Cross your fingers for the gubmint to keep its promises. At least some of the pre-pharms here actually admit they will have to lay low, live with low expenses and pay off the loans like mad for the first 10 years.
 
awval999 said:
You know that all it takes is one law to stop it right? You know that the first "forgiveness" doesn't take place until 2017. Plenty of time to cancel the program.

You have fun maxing out those loans. Cross your fingers for the gubmint to keep its promises. At least some of the pre-pharms here actually admit they will have to lay low, live with low expenses and pay off the loans like mad for the first 10 years.
Click to expand...

Shoot, everyone should be doing that anyway.
 
awval999 said:
You know that all it takes is one law to stop it right? You know that the first "forgiveness" doesn't take place until 2017. Plenty of time to cancel the program.

You have fun maxing out those loans. Cross your fingers for the gubmint to keep its promises. At least some of the pre-pharms here actually admit they will have to lay low, live with low expenses and pay off the loans like mad for the first 10 years.
Click to expand...

eh i'm already maxed out so i don't have a choice, i'll be sure to dig up this thread in 2022 if/when my loans are forgiven.

i'm not about to make plans for future laws that don't exist, either.
 
confettiflyer said:
eh i'm already maxed out so i don't have a choice, i'll be sure to dig up this thread in 2022 if/when my loans are forgiven.

i'm not about to make plans for future laws that don't exist, either.
Click to expand...

If you're ever in Ohio post-2022, and the gov't reneged on the PSFL I'll take you out for some beers (because you're broke) and say I told ya so. However, if they do forgive them you owe me some beers. 👍
 
Pretty sure it is 25 years. Pay your IBR for 25 yrs and then all is forgiven. Just had to click thru the financial aid thingy yesterday.
 
chemnerd99 said:
Pretty sure it is 25 years. Pay your IBR for 25 yrs and then all is forgiven. Just had to click thru the financial aid thingy yesterday.
Click to expand...

IBR might sound nice because you get to keep more of your paycheck now, but you're just throwing away money to interest when you take that long to pay the debt off.
 
awval999 said:
If you're ever in Ohio post-2022, and the gov't reneged on the PSFL I'll take you out for some beers (because you're broke) and say I told ya so. However, if they do forgive them you owe me some beers. 👍
Click to expand...

Hey it's a deal, lemme know what beer you want now. But it'll be okay since robots will take over by then anyway. :xf:
 
Passion4Sci said:
Skynet is coming.
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I had to look up Skynet on Wikipedia. I lol'd

Skynet is the main antagonist in the Terminator franchise — an artificially intelligent system which became self-aware and revolted against its creators. Skynet is rarely seen onscreen, and its actions are often performed via other robots and computer systems, usually a Terminator.
 
awval999 said:
I had to look up Skynet on Wikipedia. I lol'd

Skynet is the main antagonist in the Terminator franchise — an artificially intelligent system which became self-aware and revolted against its creators. Skynet is rarely seen onscreen, and its actions are often performed via other robots and computer systems, usually a Terminator.
Click to expand...

Wow.
 
Just to get back to the main subject at hand...
OP, who says you MUST take out huge loans for pharmacy school? Are you not considering any scholarships out there? For instance, I'm serving 3 years in the Air Force following pharmacy school, and I will be debt free. They are paying for 3 years of school and with the monthly stipend I'll be receiving, I will be able to pay off the loans from my first year of pharmacy school. There's more options out there than you would think, especially in the public health sector. Also, if you've worked as a pharmacy tech for certain retail companies (Wags) then you can get repayment of your pre-pharm courses once you're in pharmacy school. Retail chains will also help w/ your student loans if you sign a contract promising X years of service. It's just something to think about...you really don't have to accrue that much debt if you can suck it up and serve a couple years in the military or at a retail company.


Also: think about job security. I'm one of the very few ppl in my class that is just starting P2 year and already has a job.
 
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