Decent numbers, weaker ECs

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mtnman10

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Hey all, first post.

Here's a bit of background: graduated last spring, 4.0GPA in biochem from a state school (maybe a little lower with AMCAS rounding), 30+ MCAT (haven't taken it yet but confident I can score around there), ~2yrs research (thought that's what I wanted to do, currently a lab tech), summer internship at a hospital where I was able to attend rounds, observe surgeries, etc., plan to have ~50 hours shadowing by May (neurology mostly), and I mentored a couple high school/undergrads at my current job.

The major component missing is volunteering, I tried to get involved a few times but it just logistically never worked out (not a good excuse, I know).

So, what are my chances for MD acceptance this coming cycle? It's an option to put it off another year to do some volunteering but I'd really like to apply this year. I have one in-state school.

Let me know if there is any more info you need. Thanks in advance for advice/input 🙂

PS I did see the similar threads thing (pretty cool) but thought I'd ask because my situation is a little different.
 
~2yrs research (thought that's what I wanted to do, currently a lab tech),
-summer internship at a hospital where I was able to attend rounds, observe surgeries, etc.,
-plan to have ~50 hours shadowing by May (neurology mostly), and
-I mentored a couple high school/undergrads at my current job.

So, what are my chances for MD acceptance this coming cycle? It's an option to put it off another year to do some volunteering but I'd really like to apply this year. I have one in-state school.

What else did you do for the summer internship? Specifically, I'd want to know about patient interaction.

Even if you got in three months of direct patient experience that summer (which sounds more like it was an extended shadowing experience from what you said), that is far below the average that applicants list of about 1.5 years. Even if you get more patient experience in for the next 5 months, I can see adcomms saying they think you need a better understanding of patient issues and healthcare environments. Having the average amount of shadowing (50 hours) won't override that impression.

As far as getting in some nonmedical community service, do you have none? Last minute ECs won't excite adcomms, but it's better than none.

Every school doesn't value each category of EC identically. Maybe your state school doesn't care if you have tested medicine as a career for a prolonged period of time. However, it is more likely that they do care. Unless you have reliable information otherwise, like from calling the admissions office and asking what they want to see, I'd suggest waiting a year to apply summer 2012 after working or volunteering in healthcare, unless the cost of an application season is not a concern and you are very stress tolerant.
 
What else did you do for the summer internship? Specifically, I'd want to know about patient interaction.

Even if you got in three months of direct patient experience that summer (which sounds more like it was an extended shadowing experience from what you said), that is far below the average that applicants list of about 1.5 years. Even if you get more patient experience in for the next 5 months, I can see adcomms saying they think you need a better understanding of patient issues and healthcare environments. Having the average amount of shadowing (50 hours) won't override that impression.

As far as getting in some nonmedical community service, do you have none? Last minute ECs won't excite adcomms, but it's better than none.

Every school doesn't value each category of EC identically. Maybe your state school doesn't care if you have tested medicine as a career for a prolonged period of time. However, it is more likely that they do care. Unless you have reliable information otherwise, like from calling the admissions office and asking what they want to see, I'd suggest waiting a year to apply summer 2012 after working or volunteering in healthcare, unless the cost of an application season is not a concern and you are very stress tolerant.

Thanks, I appreciate the response.

The internship was research based, my PI allowed me to do the other stuff mainly because I wanted the experience. There was no direct patient interaction really, extended shadowing is a good description. I continued working at the hospital (in research) for another semester after the summer, but went to rounds and surgeries less frequently then.

No community service since high school, medical or otherwise. I could get involved in some now but as you said that probably wouldn't be a huge boost to my app.

I had figured the time spent at the hospital plus shadowing would show that I understand what medicine is about; is that just not enough? I attended volunteer orientations a couple of times and it seemed that the main responsibilities would be sitting at an info desk and/or wheeling patients around. To me, neither of those seem any better than shadowing at giving me an idea of what being a doctor is like. I understand they like to see altruism, but is volunteering in that type of setting worthwhile for the patient interaction?

Would my GPA and MCAT score (assuming it's 30+) give me any leeway in terms of how much of that experience I need?
 
If your MCAT was amazing, you might get by with less clinical experience if schools were so dazzled by your numbers that they snatched you up before delving deeply into the rest of your application, but a 30ish MCAT score won't put you in that category. Particular strength in leadership or community service might get you some leeway if you were weak in clinical experience, but it wouldn't excuse you from most of the expectation.

I'm just one voice, but from my point of view, you'd be on shaky ground applying with what you could get done by June 2011 or so. I've seen too many invest in fruitless application cycles with similar deficiencies to be reassuring about your chances. I won't say that an acceptance is impossible, but it's probably highly unlikely until you beef up your experiences further.

IMO, volunteering, or working, or doing clinical research where you actively engage sick people is an essential component to an application. If you think that "wheeling patients around" wouldn't be important (which I'd disagree with, and so would LizzyM, an adcomm who helps out on SDN---do an advanced search with her name and the Search term 'wheelchair', and see what I mean) then find a position in a nursing home, hospice, free-, family-planning, low-income, or VA clinic, rehab facility, as a first responder, or other location where you'd have more responsibility.

Ahhh. I found it for you:
Here's what I wrote a few months ago but it bears repeating:
A little over a year ago I ... was the grateful recipient of a wheelchair ride to the lobby by a young volunteer. My experience gave me some food for thought when it comes to transport as a clinical activity. It may not seem like much but it is an opportunity to:

learn how to properly use equipment. Someday someone may trust you with a endoscope or a CT scanner. Start by learning to operate something simple like the locks on a wheel chair. And learn how to position the wheelchair so that someone who has lost the use of a leg (temporarily) can safely get their butt into the chair.

learn to be mindful of the patient's condition and observant. It shouldn't be difficult to operate a wheelchair without running the patient's broken leg into a wall but it does require power of observation as well as the dexterity and strength to steer the chair.

make small talk. After being stuck in a hospital bed by the door for 24 hours with a roommate who did not speak English, I hankered for a little chitchat. Talk about the weather or the local sports team but find something nice to say in the 3 minutes it takes to get the elevator down to the lobby

put your patient ahead of your own self-interest. Being a doctor does require some self-sacrifice. Get a head start by making little sacrifices for patients. In other words, when the temperature outside is unbearablly cold or hot, don't dump the patient in the lobby, yards away from the curb cut on the sidewalk and hightail it back to the nurses station. That's for wimps!

So now you see how a adcom sees transport It can be a great opportunity to make a difference for patients or it can be something else.
 
Welp, thanks again for the thoughts. I guess it's better to have my hopes dashed now rather than later.

Maybe I'll apply to my state school this year so it won't be a huge waste of money if it doesn't go well and work on the other stuff in the meantime.
 
It won't hurt to call the admissions office of your state MD school, ask to make an appointment to speak to a dean on the phone, and discuss your situation with them to see what they say. If they fail to encourage you, it would save you the AMCAS application fee. More information is always a good thing.
 
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