Decided on Cornell and then... ((helpful) input requested)

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tommerbommer

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something amazing fell into my lap. After I thought all had been decided, I was offered a full scholarship to Pitt. I wasn't expecting this to happen, and I am still in a mild state of shock.

There is a small piece of me that is still tempted to go to Cornell because I am in love with New York City and have yet to live there. I have been living in San Francisco for five years and was looking forward to being in another great city, close to my family (they are in New York and Philly). AND I am not a huge fan of Pittsburgh.

But, I would be insane to turn this down, right? I'm a non-trad, and I'll be graduating from med school at 33. A hundred thousand in debt is different in your thirties than it is in your mid-twenties (though I am currently single with no children). Plus, it's not just the money. I'd always be able to put "Dean's Merit Scholar" on my CV, and I imagine that would count for something.

So, I can get over the location piece (I think.) Is there any other reason that Cornell is substantially better than UPitt? Their rankings are neck and neck in US News, but I don't really trust US News. Can people with more knowledge than I speak to this? Cornell has a "fancier" name but would it really provide me with better opportunities than would UPitt? Substantially better clinical opportunities? Better research opportunites? Better residency options? Better nightlife? (We all know that last one was a joke) Overall, is Cornell a better enough institution than UPitt to go there for full tuition?

Please don't flame me. I was accepted to two schools (these 2), waitlisted at ten others, and feel grateful as hell to be faced with such a wonderful choice. I am just trying to get feedback from as many knowledgeable people as possible (hence, I will be talking to many non-SDNers as well).
 
congratulations! i dont know much about either of these schools, but i would go with a free ride and great award to put on my CV! they are both great programs so you cant go wrong.
 
Wow!! That's amazing and a tough call. I cannot really offer any insight into the schools, though Cornell does have the tri-I opportunities associated with it. But I really don't know how you can turn down a full-ride to Med school! I live in NYC right now and totally appreciate your desire to live here, but remember that you can always move here later. One thing is certain...NYC isn't going anywhere.
 
New York will still be there in 4 years (hopefully) and there is always a possibility of doing a residency there. I would take the money and run!!! Best of luck on your decision.
 
I agree-- take the scholarship, and go for a residency in NY. W/O the med school debt, you'll be able to live it up in NY better as a resident as well!
 
One of my tour guides at Cornell said that he turned down a full tuition scholarship at Pitt to attend Cornell. He was MS-1 in his late 20s/early 30s and said that he was totally happy with his decision. I cannot remember his name, but you could call the admissions office and ask to be placed in contact with an older MS-1 for the ostensible purpose of discussing life as a non-trad in NYC and at Cornell. Also, I believe this student was originally from Pittsburgh, so the allure of a new environment may have been instrumental in his decision.
 
My dream wold to be in NYC too.. I love the city!!
But realistically.........🙁 I'd go with the full ride. Hey, you may even match there in 4 years
 
It would be hard to turn down a full ride.
 
FloridaMadame said:
New York will still be there in 4 years (hopefully) and there is always a possibility of doing a residency there. I would take the money and run!!! Best of luck on your decision.
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I agree with Florida. Take the money and do your residency in NYC if you're that set on it. Plus, Pitt's not that far from New York. Pitt's an awesome school, from what I've heard. Congrats on the scholarship. 👍
 
Law2Doc said:
You need a better map -- it's a haul. 🙄 (about a 6 hour drive without traffic).
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six hours is nothing. try driving there from California. 6 hours. You could leave in the a.m. and be there in the afternoon.
 
tommerbommer said:
something amazing fell into my lap. After I thought all had been decided, I was offered a full scholarship to Pitt. I wasn't expecting this to happen, and I am still in a mild state of shock.

There is a small piece of me that is still tempted to go to Cornell because I am in love with New York City and have yet to live there. I have been living in San Francisco for five years and was looking forward to being in another great city, close to my family (they are in New York and Philly). AND I am not a huge fan of Pittsburgh.

But, I would be insane to turn this down, right? I'm a non-trad, and I'll be graduating from med school at 33. A hundred thousand in debt is different in your thirties than it is in your mid-twenties (though I am currently single with no children). Plus, it's not just the money. I'd always be able to put "Dean's Merit Scholar" on my CV, and I imagine that would count for something.

So, I can get over the location piece (I think.) Is there any other reason that Cornell is substantially better than UPitt? Their rankings are neck and neck in US News, but I don't really trust US News. Can people with more knowledge than I speak to this? Cornell has a "fancier" name but would it really provide me with better opportunities than would UPitt? Substantially better clinical opportunities? Better research opportunites? Better residency options? Better nightlife? (We all know that last one was a joke) Overall, is Cornell a better enough institution than UPitt to go there for full tuition?

Please don't flame me. I was accepted to two schools (these 2), waitlisted at ten others, and feel grateful as hell to be faced with such a wonderful choice. I am just trying to get feedback from as many knowledgeable people as possible (hence, I will be talking to many non-SDNers as well).
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I didn't apply to Pitt, but I hear it's an excellent school. You can't go wrong either way, but I would think carefully about where you want to be both during medical school and after you graduate. NYC and Pittsburg are extremely different cities, and different people like each for different reasons. If you're going to regret not being in NYC for medical school (and four years IS a long time to be in one place), I'd go with Cornell. Your debts will take care of themselves. And honestly, I don't think being a "Dean's Scholar" will actually make a significant difference in getting residencies. Board scores, grades, experiences, and letters will probably be much more significant.

That being said, I don't think there's any academic difference between the schools. Both are excellent, although Cornell may have a slightly bigger reputation in NYC itself. It seems like it's a money vs. location decision for you. You'll just have to decide which is more important.
 
Pay now or pay later. Let's face it, Pittsburgh can't compete with NYC. However, it's not like you'll be in the middle of nowhere. You've got the Steelers, the Penguins, the Pirates, and lots of college students (Pitt and Carnegie Mellon). From what I hear, Pitt has been rising in the rankings. They have been getting a lot of NIH money and the UPMC hospital system is massive. Also, Pittsburgh is close to some other cities like Cleveland and Cincinatti.

Four years in Pittsburgh vs. 4 years in NYC is a small price to pay in my opinion. If you go to Cornell, you will "pay later." You can't afford to pay back loans during residency and your residency will be from 3-6 years long. That puts you at 36-39 years old with 200,000 in debt. Trust me, it will suck and you will be paying for years to come.

A lot of people on this board seem to think that you can pay that off in 5 years and it's no big deal. They are sadly mistaken. Every doctor I talk to complains about what a burden their loans are. Talk to young doctors and see what they say. Older doctors went to school when it was much cheaper, so they wouldn't understand.

Take the full ride or live to regret it.
 
Wow, congrats... yeah, I'm adding to the votes for full-ride.
 
One thing to keep in mind though. I've heard that Cornell is very generous with financial aid (unusually so) so if they haven't given you a financial aid package it may be worth waiting if possible. If your debt is a lot less, then it might be worth it to go to Cornell if you like it more and not necessarily be in a large amount of debt. Just my 0.02.
 
Bfriccia1 said:
One thing to keep in mind though. I've heard that Cornell is very generous with financial aid (unusually so) so if they haven't given you a financial aid package it may be worth waiting if possible. If your debt is a lot less, then it might be worth it to go to Cornell if you like it more and not necessarily be in a large amount of debt. Just my 0.02.
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I second with this poster. If I was in your position, I'd wait to get my Fin Aid package from Cornell and then decide.

Hell, I might even go so far as to get a meeting with the dean of Cornell, explain the situation and see if if I can haggle for a Fin Aid package comparable with UPitt.

Good Luck!
 
i61164 said:
Four years in Pittsburgh vs. 4 years in NYC is a small price to pay in my opinion. If you go to Cornell, you will "pay later." You can't afford to pay back loans during residency and your residency will be from 3-6 years long. That puts you at 36-39 years old with 200,000 in debt. Trust me, it will suck and you will be paying for years to come.
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Vs. spending four years in a city the OP may regret living in? Who wants to be age 29-33 and single, living in a city they don't like when they could have been living in Manhattan? That's a high price to pay as well.

I'm not saying that's going to be the case with Pitt, of course. I just want to balance some of the responses here that are focusing on the money by mentioning the issue of quality of life. Only the OP can decide how that will be determined, though.

Well, either of those places will be great, so just follow your heart! Does the location matter a LOT to you? If so, think this over carefully. If it's not that big a deal, take the scholarship.
 
I'm just saying that Pittsburgh has a lot to offer too. I would advise the OP to spend a little time there before deciding that he will regret passing up New York. New York is a great city, I lived there for 5 years. However, I would rather live in New York as a resident with a little spending money and no student loans, than as a broke-ass med student who is racking up a huge pile of debt.
 
I had the Pitt scholarship, and I also went to the Cornell minority revisit weekend. I did not have the scholarship prior to the visit, but they talked A LOT about Cornell fin. aid. The average debt there is going up to around 100K because they lost one of their inside grant programs. They also talked about how some people are having considerably higher debt, ie those whose parent's don't chip in the EFC. The alumni panel emphasized that your debt load can significantly affect which specialties you choose, since it could be impossible to choose something you love and still be able to afford to live.

I would go to Pitt, graduate with $40-60K debt, and then match to NYC. You will be coming from a respected program and you will be different from the throngs of people from NYC schools who are desperate to stay in NYC. Most programs like some diversity and in this regard being from Pitt could help you. Another thing--if you go to NYC as a resident vs. being a med student, especially with less debt, you will be able to enjoy living in NYC more.

Just my humble opinion 😉 Treg
 
I would definitely go with Pitt unless you didn't like the program there.

I think the two schools are very close, one obviously has a more recognized name in the general public but that shouldn't really have much of an effect on what residency directors think.
 
i'm in the exact same situation - but substitute Columbia for Cornell. Does anybody have thoughts on my situation that might be different? Columbia and Cornell are both great - I'm just wondering if people have different things to say about them or would do different things in this comparison to Pitt with full-tuition scholarship.
 
Full ride all the way. There are people in my school who turned down Duke or UCSF for full rides. Man, I wish I had such an opportunity. I'll be in $80K debt when I graduate.
 
KNightInBlue said:
Hell, I might even go so far as to get a meeting with the dean of Cornell, explain the situation and see if if I can haggle for a Fin Aid package comparable with UPitt.

Good Luck!
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I was hoping someone would suggest this. It might seem at first to be a little shady, sort of selling yourself to the highest bidder so to speak, but if Pitt wants you badly enough that they'll GIVE you nearly $200K just to get you to go there, chances are decent that Cornell wants you badly enough to at least go part of the way. And, since you're leaning towards Cornell for all of the non-$$ reasons, them meeting you part way might be enough to pull you there. Just know what it's going to take for you to pick Cornell before you meet with them, ie. if Cornell offers half-tuition, is that good enough? If you don't feel comfortable with this kind of meeting, definitely wait to get your fin aid package from Cornell (and don't be afraid to hint that you need to know soon because it will have a large impact on your decision).

It's a tough call, but one that you're very fortunate to have to make (and it sounds like you realize that, which is why you haven't been railed on this thread). Good luck.
 
If you really like NYC, then meet with Dean at Cornell to see if they will meet you half way tuition wise

otherwise

Go with the money at Pitt....both are good schools and money will count in the long run when u will be paying back the loans (or no loans in Pitt's case)

IMHO it will matter more where you do you residency from and Pitt and Cornell both have gr8 match lists
 
Cornell is not going to budge on the fin. aid thing, they made that clear on the revisit I went to. It is strictly need based, using formulas. Good luck though, I guess it can't hurt to try.
 
/
 
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what's the deal? is pitt done giving out all their scholarships and are now giving them out when people drop? or are they giving them out slowly?
 
i loved my experiences at Cornell and would do everything there all over again in a heartbeat (now how many people do you hear say that about med school!?!) My aid was fairly generous and i graduated with reasonable debt.

that being said, however, a full ride to medical school is nothing to sneeze at. While the aid at Cornell is generous, and their average debt is fairly low compared to many schools (though not the lowest) it is purely need based. There is no merit money, unlike what it sounds like the OP is being offered at Pitt for his hard work in Undergrad. There is no haggling with the dean to meet anyone halfway. If you don't want the package they offer, then they'll just end up offering your spot to someone else. It's all purely by the numbers. However, if you happen to apply for other outside grants and scholarships, Cornell will be happy to reduce your loans, and not your grants. Don't let debt dictate what your career path will be. You should wait for the fin aid pkg from Cornell and sort of "crunch the numbers" and see if the level of debt you could potentially graduate with is really worth turning down a full ride.

But as several of the posters have alluded to, quality of life issues are extremely important as well...so it's no easy task you have. Cornell is a great school, and I'm sure Pitt is as well. If you can get to both school's accepted student weekends it may be helpful...otherwise you should really talk to some more students and get some insight.

-ed
 
Some people here have alluded to quality of life issues but I don't know if the OP realizes how expensive it is to live in New York. You won't just owe $100,000 in tuition, you'll owe significantly more for living expenses. Plus you have to think about how that money will sit and accrue interest until you finish residency. I would guestimate that you will owe closer to $200,000 at that point, if not more. Plus, UPitt is a fantastic school. It's not as if you're choosing between an awful school that hated and one that you loved. I would take the full ride. Especially if you want to end up living in New York, you'll need that money later.
 
A frank take on the matter (both Cornell and Columbia vs Pitt):

If you're making the decision on purely rational, economic terms, you would pick Pitt. I don't see much controversy there - and a year ago, I would have told you to just go with Pitt. It would have been unthinkable for me to advise you to consider turning it down. But as time passes, I've realized these decisions are more complex than they initially seem.

I think the educations at all of these schools are comparable... They're all great schools. But it's true that to the layman/woman in the bar or at the cocktail party, Columbia and Cornell "sound" better than Pitt. The name recognition difference between these schools is greater than the USNews ranking difference (which shouldn't really matter to you anyways. Nobody walks around with a copy of those rankings in hand).

I agree with those who say that in the long long run, it doesn't really matter where you go to school career-wise. The only person whom it may really matter to is you - are you a prestige *****? There's nothing wrong with being one... you just have to admit it to yourself. Down the road, when you're 70, or when you've hit a rocky part of your career, are you someone who'd say, "I wish I had that nicer sounding name on my resume, just so I could feel better about myself"? If you're purely rational, you wouldn't have such thoughts, nor would what school you attended matter at all to your sense of self-worth and accomplishment. But some of us aren't such rational operators, and it's something we should recognize in ourselves if that's the way we are.

As for being able to put the scholarship on your resume: my thought on this was always the other way around - i.e., down the road, when people ask you where you went, you can't qualify your statement with "Well, I graduated from UPitt, but that's because I got a full ride there - I really could have gone to Cornell/Columbia". People are not going to 'know' that you got into Cornell/Columbia. They don't know about the whole money issue behind your decision (unless they're close friends/family who were there when it happened). Again, this ego issue shouldn't matter to you ideally, but you can't help it if it does.

To the OP in particular: It does sound like you've got a solid location reason to be in NYC - your family is there. Pitt is not just a hop and a jump from NYC - it's not far either, but not the sort of distance you can easily traverse to visit friends/family on a whim. How important this is to you depends on what your particular desires are with respect to seeing your family. It sounds like you've been away from them for a while, which might either mean that you're now used to dealing with the distance issue, or that you now want to be closer. Either is fine, it depends on you. Hope these thoughts help.
 
leechy said:
As for being able to put the scholarship on your resume: my thought on this was always the other way around - i.e., down the road, when people ask you where you went, you can't qualify your statement with "Well, I graduated from UPitt, but that's because I got a full ride there - I really could have gone to Cornell/Columbia". People are not going to 'know' that you got into Cornell/Columbia. They don't know about the whole money issue behind your decision (unless they're close friends/family who were there when it happened). Again, this ego issue shouldn't matter to you ideally, but you can't help it if it does.
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what a stupid thing to say. Pitt is an excellent med school with many very strong clinical departments. UPMC is a huge regional referral center, and your clinical experience there will be just as good, if not better, than at Cornell or Columbia. There is no good reason to turn down a full ride at a great school just for the Cornell or Columbia name.

also, keep in mind that the flight from Pittsburgh to NY is very short and visiting friends and family should be easy. good luck.
 
Take the free ride and run!!

I love NYC as well, but would rather get there without the debt of med school, as you know NYC is very expesive city. I for one will give heavy weight to the price of schooling, and little to the brand name recognition. Just look at famous doc' CVs , they didn't all go to Ivy league medical schools- they did however have nice names/highly ranked schools for their post med school training (which you can do), also I think residency would be easier w/o the worrysome debt.

Congratts.
 
doc05 said:
what a stupid thing to say. Pitt is an excellent med school with many very strong clinical departments. UPMC is a huge regional referral center, and your clinical experience there will be just as good, if not better, than at Cornell or Columbia. There is no good reason to turn down a full ride at a great school just for the Cornell or Columbia name.

also, keep in mind that the flight from Pittsburgh to NY is very short and visiting friends and family should be easy. good luck.
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I know it's stupid to care about the name... but some people can't help it... 😉 that was the point of my post. As I said before, a Pitt education is as good as Columbia and Cornell. Quality of education / future career prospects are not the issue here. Irrational but legitimate desires are.
 
doc05 said:
what a stupid thing to say. Pitt is an excellent med school with many very strong clinical departments. UPMC is a huge regional referral center, and your clinical experience there will be just as good, if not better, than at Cornell or Columbia. There is no good reason to turn down a full ride at a great school just for the Cornell or Columbia name.

also, keep in mind that the flight from Pittsburgh to NY is very short and visiting friends and family should be easy. good luck.
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i'd certainly agree with the high quality of the pitt education -- i was thoroughly impressed by the facilities, people and programs at pitt.

however, i do believe there's something -- albeit minor -- to be said for the 'what's in a name' argument. in my instance, i'm choosing between several schools, including pitt and dartmouth. as far as patient diversity, school resources and reputation in the academic community, pitt is the logical choice. yet when i'm talking to friends and family about the schools, the mention of an "ivy" elicits raised eyebrows and hearty congrats, whereas pitt falls into the same head nods as the rest. family members who are in private practice agree that having a recognizable name is beneficial if you're headed for private practice.

in this instance, you're in an excellent and enviable position. just choose where you'll be happiest. if leaving after 4 years from an excellent institution without an extra 140 g's of debt does it, take the money and run. you can't go wrong.
 
it really doesn't matter what a "person in a bar" thinks when you mention what school you went to. anyone in academic medicine knows pitt is at least the equal of cornell and columbia and miles superior to some other ivy's like dartmouth (not that darts not a great school). those are the pple that will decide your residency, not your aunty gretchen or some dude in a bar.
 
posting again: what's the deal? is pitt done giving out all their scholarships and are now giving them out when people drop? or are they giving them out slowly?
 
To the OP: I was also very fortunate to have received the Pitt full-ride scholarship, but I just turned it down last week. This was one of the hardest decisions I have made during this application cycle, but location was a key factor.

My family and all my friends are in CA, so I decided instead to go to UCSF. From what I understand, even with the full ride at Pitt, only tuition is covered--you are still responsible for living costs. So, you will still be paying some costs out-of-pocket (although very little).

More importantly, however, I did not want to be so far from California. I am willing to build up some debt b/c I know that I will be happier in CA than in PA.

Anyhow, follow your heart--you'll make the best decision in the end. :luck:
 
Haybrant said:
posting again: what's the deal? is pitt done giving out all their scholarships and are now giving them out when people drop? or are they giving them out slowly?
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I know that they made their original offer to people around April 1st. But it sounds like the OP JUST got an offer? Is that the case?

By the way, who else (besides me) was at the re-visit this weekend? I'm choosing between Pitt, Case and UMass (UMass mostly for financial reasons). I'm torn about Case and Pitt. argh!
 
PMinty44 said:
I know that they made their original offer to people around April 1st. But it sounds like the OP JUST got an offer? Is that the case?

By the way, who else (besides me) was at the re-visit this weekend? I'm choosing between Pitt, Case and UMass (UMass mostly for financial reasons). I'm torn about Case and Pitt. argh!
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Case? Columbia? Cornell? Bah! Did we not feed you well enough? Come to Pitt!!! We loved all you prospectives. Did you not love us? 😀

-Lion
 
So a similar question, although slightly down the rankings ladder: what would you guys say about choosing between Pitt and in-state UMaryland with 30k/yr scholarship? I feel like the difference between Maryland and Pitt is larger than that between Pitt and Cornell, so I'm not really sure what to do.
 
LionInTheDark said:
Case? Columbia? Cornell? Bah! Did we not feed you well enough? Come to Pitt!!! We loved all you prospectives. Did you not love us? 😀

-Lion
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I had a GREAT weekend, but I also had a GREAT weekend at Case. I'm just torn. There are things about both Pitt and Case that I love and things that I wish I could change. Why can't I just merge them! In the end, I may go where I have the least debt between Pitt and Case. We'll see. Lion, I may PM you in the next few weeks to ask you some questions. Hope that is cool. 🙂

And, yes, the food was very good. 😀 Now, had Pitt also provided me a Hottie, then there would be no question about where I'd go! heheheh
 
I'd really like to thank everyone for their input. I have read it all and am impressed by how much well-considered thought you each put into your posts. Your efforts are much appreciated.

I was absent from the board for several days while visiting Pitt this past weekend, and I must say that the visit (as well as many of the considerations expressed in a majority of the above posts) has me almost completely sold on attending Pitt. The school and city aren't perfect, but I did have a really good time and met a bunch of great students and professors. I am assured that, from a career standpoint, I will be able to accomplish anything that I might want to do in my four years in Pittsburgh. Plus, you did feed me quite well, thank you.

By the way, it was great to meet you, "Chedawg."
 
DantheMan05 said:
So a similar question, although slightly down the rankings ladder: what would you guys say about choosing between Pitt and in-state UMaryland with 30k/yr scholarship? I feel like the difference between Maryland and Pitt is larger than that between Pitt and Cornell, so I'm not really sure what to do.
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I had a similar question: What if the schools were Albert Einstein vs Cornell or Columbia? The difference in these schools is also bigger than Pitt and Cornell. Would everyone still choose Einstein?

To the OP: congrats on making your decision!
 
posting again: posting again: what's the deal? is pitt done giving out all their scholarships and are now giving them out when people drop? or are they giving them out slowly?
 
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure. I was offered the scholarship last week - not several weeks ago when the first scholarships were offered.

I do know that I met several others this past weekend who were also offered scholarships last week, suggesting that they are at least offerring them in chunks, not just one at a time. Again, whether or not they are finished, or are planning to offer more if and when others decline the offer, I'm not sure.

I'm guessing that the admissions office would be forthcoming about this if you were to call or e-mail and ask about the status of your scholarship application (assuming you're asking because you applied). Good luck!
 
tommerbommer said:
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure. I was offered the scholarship last week - not several weeks ago when the first scholarships were offered.

I do know that I met several others this past weekend who were also offered scholarships last week, suggesting that they are at least offerring them in chunks, not just one at a time. Again, whether or not they are finished, or are planning to offer more if and when others decline the offer, I'm not sure.

I'm guessing that the admissions office would be forthcoming about this if you were to call or e-mail and ask about the status of your scholarship application (assuming you're asking because you applied). Good luck!
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thanks!
 
tommerbommer said:
I must say that the visit (as well as many of the considerations expressed in a majority of the above posts) has me almost completely sold on attending Pitt.
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Congrats! It's time to reap the benefit of your intelligence and all of your hardworks. Sometimes it's the IQ's that keeps people drown in their debts. You have survived, I think. Good luck.
 
Question about the Pitt scholarship: Is it only for people with very strong intentions to enter academic medicine? Do all of the applicants know that far in advance that they will definitely pursue academic medicine?
 
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