Decision time, help a fella decide what to do

[exilio]

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**IF VOTING PLEASE READ EVERYTHING**

So I have been agonizing over this decision for weeks now, and it is basically still as clear as mud.

However, I think I have it narrowed down to 3 decisions. If you vote, please be sure to read about all three possibilities and offer a reason why you voted how you did.

Background:
I am deciding on where to transfer to and from my community college and whether or not I should take calculus. One school necessitates I do, whereas the other does not.

Option 1: Go to UCLAfor Junior and Senior year. (and take 1 year calc)
Pros:
* UCLA reputation
* Attached medical school
* Moving there would put my wife and I closer to family and an area we prefer

Cons:
* Wife's income goes down
* Rent goes up
* I would HAVE to take calculus for the physics classes

Option 2: Go to SJSU (San Jose State) for Junior and Senior year. (No calc)
Pros:
* Less expensive school
* Don't have to move
* Rent is less
* Wife's income is considerably more
* Don't have to take calculus for physics classes

Cons:
* SJSU has weaker reputation
* Not taking calculus excludes me from application to about half of the UC Med Schools, and about 15-20% nationwide
* Don't care for NorCal

Option 3: Go to SJSU (San Jose State) for Junior and Senior year. (and take 1 year calc)
Pros:
* same as above and...
* Can apply to all med schools

Cons:
* same as above and...
* time spent on calc takes away from an already packed schedule AND opens up the possiblity of doing poorly wich looks bad on an app

Which would you do and why?

If you are unclear ons omething please feel free to ask and I will do my best to clarify. Thanks in advance for any help...this decision is very tough to make.

 

[exilio]

Thanks for voting...but a reply is what would be most helpful. Your rationale is what gives me something to consider I may not have yet thought about.

Thanks again! 😎

 

[BigRedPingpong]

The perceived reputation of the undergraduate institution you attend and its effects on medical school acceptance has been debated to death. There is no way of convincing the other side to believe your way of thinking. My suggestion is to put yourself in the position of an admissions officer. One applicant has a degree from highly reputable school X and another applicant with similar academic statistics and extracurricular activities attended a mediocre school Y. Both of their interviews went equally well. Now, which would you give your vote to?

 

[Odaroloc]

your GPA, MCAT, EC's, LOR's all come into play...if they are all strong take the option that is most convenient/attractive to you...if not, reputation plays a stonger role

 

[exilio]

The perceived reputation of the undergraduate institution you attend and its effects on medical school acceptance has been debated to death. There is no way of convincing the other side to believe your way of thinking. My suggestion is to put yourself in the position of an admissions officer. One applicant has a degree from highly reputable school X and another applicant with similar academic statistics and extracurricular activities attended a mediocre school Y. Both of their interviews went equally well. Now, which would you give your vote to?

That has been EXACTLY my thinking as well.

And since the whole purpose of this journey is to get into medical school...I have to lean towards what will be the best option to make that happen.

I am not looking for the easy way. I just don't want to create an unreasonable burden.

I suspect, as with most things, perception is the key compenent here.

All things being equal, the nod will typically go to the school that is perceived as the finer institution.

 

[premyo2002]

I say go to the san jose and take calc.
First of all, you have to think about how many pre-meds are at UCLA versus san jose. Sorry for being a little cliche, but do you want to be a BIG fish in a small pond our a SMALL fish in a big pond? Also, take calc either at your CC or at san jose, that way you meet the pre-req's for UC's.

As for the reputation issue, I think it is pretty small factor compared to rest of the application. and if you have more money:

* Less expensive school
* Don't have to move
* Rent is less
* Wife's income is considerably more

then you will probably be less stressed and perform better in school; enhancing your chances of getting in.

 

[mandalonius]

I go to UCLA and I really enjoy the upper division classes here. Sorry I'm biased =)

 

[exilio]

your GPA, MCAT, EC's, LOR's all come into play...if they are all strong take the option that is most convenient/attractive to you...if not, reputation plays a stonger role

As with many things, it would be great to know ahead of time..but it is simply not possible.

The decisions I need to make now would be made easier knowing the things you mentioned...unfortunately time and space aren't cooperating. 😉

So I have to try and make the best "guess" I can.

 

[exilio]

Hmmm...I get the sneaking suspicion no one is reading what I wrote and just clicking UCLA because it's UCLA. 😛

 

[BaylorLion]

Family being there makes a difference - having that support network around you while you're finishing school and doing it on a tighter budget may make it more doable. Also, you can do research or volunteer at the UCLA Med Center, make the connections that will help you land the recommendations to get into the UC's. I just think UCLA may give you more opportunities to shine - and the campus is one of the nicest I've ever seen.

I'll put it this way. If you go to UCLA, and then don't get into the medical school you want, you won't think to youself, "Man, if only I'd gone to SJSU." Now, if you go to San Jose State, and the same happens - will you wonder?

The answer to that question is what would make the decision for me.

 

[Jalby]

It should be a no brainer. UCLA has a TON stronger rep and that does matter a lot.

 

[leavesam]

The perceived reputation of the undergraduate institution you attend and its effects on medical school acceptance has been debated to death. There is no way of convincing the other side to believe your way of thinking. My suggestion is to put yourself in the position of an admissions officer. One applicant has a degree from highly reputable school X and another applicant with similar academic statistics and extracurricular activities attended a mediocre school Y. Both of their interviews went equally well. Now, which would you give your vote to?

I would have no problem with this line of logic if you can get
"similar academic statistics" at both schools. However, I believe that, given you work hard at both schools, you will tend to have greater academic success if you take courses at SJSU rather than UCLA. Having said that, I think you should challenge yourself and try to be a BIG FISH IN A BIG POND.

 

[BigRedPingpong]

Woe to those who think that lesser institutions are somehow "easier" and people will "tend to have greater academic success" at these schools.

 

[exilio]

I'll put it this way. If you go to UCLA, and then don't get into the medical school you want, you won't think to youself, "Man, if only I'd gone to SJSU." Now, if you go to San Jose State, and the same happens - will you wonder?

The answer to that question is what would make the decision for me.

And there it is.

I think it does really boil down to just this. There will ALWAYS be static in every decision of this magnitude. You simply have to filter out as much as possible and make the decision that is the best fit, because the perfect one does not exist.

Thanks Baylor Lion.

And thanks to everyone else for weighing in.

 

[Violinrose]

UCLA is more reputable but SJSU is not bad all. It has a solid reputation among california schools. You should take calc no matter what. But I think have a good income and paying less for rent are definite pluses.

 

[uclabruin725]

In addition to the rep that UCLA has, I think it might also be advantageous due to its connections. SJSU is primarily a commuter school, and while I've attended, I would think this might have an impact on what types of ECs that you'll be able to participate in. Being a UC, UCLA is also primarily focused on research, giving you more opportunities to work with big names in the field, doing cutting edge research, and getting sparkling LORs that would help your application. A lot of schools do tend to take their own undergrads (i'm not suggesting a ridiculously large percentage, but I think if you manage to make the right connections, you should have a distinct advantage).
That being said, you might feel... insignificant at a larger university - and since UCLA does not have a pre-med commitee, you will be forced to procure your own LORs (i'm not sure what SJSU has...). Finances look like they would favor staying in SJ too. If you can make ends meet and live well enough, I would go for UCLA.
I am graduating in June from UCLA, so my views might be biased, but take them for what they're worth!

 

[Medikit]

I vote for option4, go to Chico State, take calculus, wife's income goes down considerably but so does cost of living, schools are great and you get to find out what Northern California is really about.

 

[exilio]

There is no doubt in my mind, that UCLA will offer more to a potential med school student. My main goal through this poll was to gauge perception and sentiment.

It is not a straightforward path I take with obvious choices of good and bad, Yet, it is a decision, I alone need to make. My only hope is to make the best decision for myself that leads to medical school. That is the dream, the hope, the plan. 😴 😴 😴

Wow...I put myself to sleep with all that rhetoric.

Anyways, I really appreciate everyones feedback...please keep it coming.

 

[Wednesday]

I read your post, admittedly quickly, but I can't find anything that pertains to your fear of calculus. Making a decision based on location, happiness, class size, professor availability, school reputation, etc is a good idea. Making a decision based on whether or not you have to take calc seems like a bad idea to me. It's not that difficult of a class.

 

[skiz knot]

Option 4) Go to Hell!

Why do you want other people to make decisions for you and your wife?

All schools will get you into medical school if you do well in them.

 

[kito]

One applicant has a degree from highly reputable school X and another applicant with similar academic statistics and extracurricular activities attended a mediocre school Y. Both of their interviews went equally well. Now, which would you give your vote to?

The likelyhood of this happening is farfetched. Especially if there are multiple interviews. Plus the MCAT serves as an equalizer in some ways.

 

[BigRedPingpong]

The likelyhood of this happening is farfetched. Especially if there are multiple interviews. Plus the MCAT serves as an equalizer in some ways.

In this case we are assuing the "two applicants" are the same person: the OP. Therefore, it is not farfetched.

Edit: BTW, if you think it is easier at SJU because it is not a US news blah blah blah...see my earlier post on the previous page.

 

[exilio]

Option 4) Go to Hell!

Why do you want other people to make decisions for you and your wife?

All schools will get you into medical school if you do well in them.

Wow..what a response. Eat some fiber buddy, you'll live longer.

Anyways. I am not looking for someone to make my decision for me. What I am looking for are opinions from people who may have some insight. Never burn down the library.

Now go find some ruffage. 👍

 

[exilio]

I read your post, admittedly quickly, but I can't find anything that pertains to your fear of calculus. Making a decision based on location, happiness, class size, professor availability, school reputation, etc is a good idea. Making a decision based on whether or not you have to take calc seems like a bad idea to me. It's not that difficult of a class.

The decision to study calc or not is because I already have a very full schedule...especially if I go to UCLA. But if I do go there, I don't really have a choice in the matter. However I do have a choice if I go to SJSU. Not taking calc would free up a significant portion of my time to allow me to concentrate on the myriad of other classes I have.

I am just trying to strategically apportion out my time, not get of taking calc.

 

[exmike]

the fact that sjsu doesnt require calc is to me a glaring example of why UCLA's reputation is that much better. I think the adcomms know that quite well. If I remember MSAR correctly, something like 85% of successful applicants took Calc. Its impossible to draw a conclusion, but that number does suggest that people that take Calc MIGHT be more competitive applicants. I liken it to schools that say you dont need your baccalaureate degree to matriculate. While many schools say that, few in practice ever do matriculate w/o a bachelors. Just because they dont require calc doesnt mean you shouldn't take it. Take calc. Go to UCLA.

 

[exilio]

the fact that sjsu doesnt require calc is to me a glaring example of why UCLA's reputation is that much better. I think the adcomms know that quite well. If I remember MSAR correctly, something like 85% of successful applicants took Calc. Its impossible to draw a conclusion, but that number does suggest that people that take Calc MIGHT be more competitive applicants. I liken it to schools that say you dont need your baccalaureate degree to matriculate. While many schools say that, few in practice ever do matriculate w/o a bachelors. Just because they dont require calc doesnt mean you shouldn't take it. Take calc. Go to UCLA.

Exmike, I see your point, but consider this. UC Davis, as we all know, is a fantastic school and has a great medical program. They have physics that does not require calculus. What's more, Yale does not require calculus. In fact only 15% of the med school programs out there require it.

So just because SJSU offers a non-calc based physics series does not mean they are sub-bar institution.

That being said, my heart has always been with UCLA. It is a school I get pumped up about. But I do need to explore ALL of my options so that I can make the best decision.

Thanks for weighing in. 👍

 

[bearpaw]

honestly, neither school you're applying to will do much for you in the med school game. When you go to harvard undergrad, you instantly have a huge level of credibility when applying to schools. However, state schools are way different, as they let in so many people and they all have to duke it out to prove to med schools they are worthy. There are a huge number of people at UCLA that start off premed and never even apply, and even after that i would guess that only 50% of those who apply get in. UCLA has a better name, but only if you can do well there.

If you're in CC right now and scared of calc, chances are that you're not the type of kid that will do exceptional at UCLA. For you, i suggest you go to the easy school, try out calc and drop it if you are going to get less than a B in it, and just bust your bits and pieces for the mcat.

I know, you may feel that UCLA is a prestigious school, but if UCLA is prestigious and warrants some recognition, imagine how many other schools would give applicants "advantages". There are 8 ivies, mit, stanford, duke, uchicago, jhu, caltech, amherst, williams, swarthmore...and even more schools that clearly have a better academic rep than ucla. If you look at the class makeups of any med school that is not regional, you will see how overrepresented these few schools are. There are only a handful of schools that make med schools think you're special, and UCLA is not one of them.

So, in short, UCLA is not worth going to because the name advantage will be slight but the competition you'll face going there will be significant. If you go to the easy school, you can coast for another year, do ok on your mcat, and you'll be a doctor.

Go with the sure thing.

**IF VOTING PLEASE READ EVERYTHING**

So I have been agonizing over this decision for weeks now, and it is basically still as clear as mud.

However, I think I have it narrowed down to 3 decisions. If you vote, please be sure to read about all three possibilities and offer a reason why you voted how you did.

Background:
I am deciding on where to transfer to and from my community college and whether or not I should take calculus. One school necessitates I do, whereas the other does not.

Option 1: Go to UCLAfor Junior and Senior year. (and take 1 year calc)
Pros:
* UCLA reputation
* Attached medical school
* Moving there would put my wife and I closer to family and an area we prefer

Cons:
* Wife's income goes down
* Rent goes up
* I would HAVE to take calculus for the physics classes

Option 2: Go to SJSU (San Jose State) for Junior and Senior year. (No calc)
Pros:
* Less expensive school
* Don't have to move
* Rent is less
* Wife's income is considerably more
* Don't have to take calculus for physics classes

Cons:
* SJSU has weaker reputation
* Not taking calculus excludes me from application to about half of the UC Med Schools, and about 15-20% nationwide
* Don't care for NorCal

Option 3: Go to SJSU (San Jose State) for Junior and Senior year. (and take 1 year calc)
Pros:
* same as above and...
* Can apply to all med schools

Cons:
* same as above and...
* time spent on calc takes away from an already packed schedule AND opens up the possiblity of doing poorly wich looks bad on an app

Which would you do and why?

If you are unclear ons omething please feel free to ask and I will do my best to clarify. Thanks in advance for any help...this decision is very tough to make.

 

[acab]

I'd go to San Jose State and take calc.

#1 - UCLA's reputation will not put you at such a great advantage over graduating from SJSU. I'm not sure how much time adcoms will take to really distinguish UCLA from another Cal state undergrad. All else being equal, the UCLA name won't make or break your admission to med school. BTW, I'm a product of the NYC public school system, which doesn't come close to the reputation of the Cal public schools. Although the reputation of my school did worry me, especially when all other interviewees were from ivies, I did just fine in the process.

#2 - The drop in income may affect you and your family in ways that might take you away from doing your best in school.

#3- Calc. is not hard at all. It just takes some adjusting in terms of thinking about math concepts in a different way from anything you did in precalc.

 

[exilio]

Bearpaw,
Thank you for your post. However I feel your post is just a bit condescending in its tone. I never said I can't handle Calc. I am merely exploring the options at my disposal. If anything I know of many pre-meds that are scared of humanities and avoid them at all cost. That is not the case here.

What's more, I am hardly a "kid" as you put it. I have been around the block and am about 10 years older than the average freshman. I think it that experience that has prompted me to reflect deeply upon the choices I must make.

And to reiterate, I am not looking to "coast" or avoid a competitve environment. I am looking to make the best decision for my circumstances...nothing more, nothing less.

 

[exilio]

I'd go to San Jose State and take calc.

#1 - UCLA's reputation will not put you at such a great advantage over graduating from SJSU. I'm not sure how much time adcoms will take to really distinguish UCLA from another Cal state undergrad. All else being equal, the UCLA name won't make or break your admission to med school. BTW, I'm a product of the NYC public school system, which doesn't come close to the reputation of the Cal public schools. Although the reputation of my school did worry me, especially when all other interviewees were from ivies, I did just fine in the process.

#2 - The drop in income may affect you and your family in ways that might take you away from doing your best in school.

#3- Calc. is not hard at all. It just takes some adjusting in terms of thinking about math concepts in a different way from anything you did in precalc.

Acab,

Thanks for your feedback. I think you made some very valid points.

#1 I agree that the school I attend will not make or break me. If I have an excellent GPA, LOR's EC's and MCAT, that will speak volumes for me more than what school I attended.

#2 I consider the income situation very much. However, it is tempered with fact of moving to UCLA we would be clsoer to family and back to living in an area we love versus an area we don't care for.

#3 I never took precalc. I am not trying to avoid calc. I am just trying to lay out a feasible schedule. Afterall, if I were to take calc and do poorly I can never unring that bell. However, if I don't take it I can always do it if a school requires it...but that is only about 15% of the med schools out there.

Thanks again for your thoughts...very helpful indeed.

 

[biophiliac1]

i went to ucla and i say if you're gonna go there take calculus at ur jc it's worth it because the quarter system is alot faster and you'll be trying to keep your g.p.a. up as far as which school to go to i say go to the one you think you will do best in. you can always do summer programs to get connections as far as research goes. if you get into a really good one that can give you an edge possibly...maybe not. or you can even do some research at ucberkeley. i didn't read all the posts but i'll say that every school has it's advantages and disadvantages. getting into the connections at ucla isn't always easy...depends on what luck comes to you (just my thought) and how hard you work at it. but that's how it is everywhere. since med schools look at "numbers" alot i say maybe you want to go to the school that would be easier for you. adjusting, grade wise etc. i'll admit that ucla is an highly competitive environment especially if you plan to major in the sciences. by the way san jose andddd westwood cost alot as far as housing goes if that is one of your reasons for choosing either school. good luck to you wherever you go!!

 

[exilio]

Thanks for all the input. I learned alot. 👍

 

[Spitting Camel]

Option 4) Go to Hell!

Why do you want other people to make decisions for you and your wife?

All schools will get you into medical school if you do well in them.

OMG, I was waiting for someone to say that!