Declining GPA [2.5 average] -- Taking a semester or year off?

[essiebee7]

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I feel as though I am going nowhere in my undergraduate career. I am working really hard but I have not figured out how to work SMART or how I learn. I went though some personal emotional struggles freshman year with a death in the family that left me depressed but I stayed in school and pushed through it for 3 years. I don't think this did me any good. I had a 4.2 GPA in high school. I attend a "public ivy" undergrad. Just look at how my GPA suffered:

Freshman GPA: 2.7
Sophomore: 2.6
Junior: 2.5

Med classes GPA: 2.676

..... IM TERRIFIED because what was supposed to be my "swing back" to show that freshman year was just a fluke is actually turning into a disaster with a downhill trend. I have had to continuously work two jobs while in school to support myself which made studying stressful. I haven't even had time to get clinical experience
Senior year: TBA <--- I am considering the following plan:
- take a gap year SENIOR YEAR to student for the MCAT in January 2015 -- (still need to sign up for this)
- get a job that makes 50k a year for 30 hours a week -- acquired. If I take a gap year I will be set and will be able to support myself with housing, food, and a car and gas.
- With Mondays, Tuesday, and every other weekend off from work: Get Clinical experience (because I live in Bethesda, I am 20 min from John Hopkins hospital, Georgetown, GW and the NIH.)
- Retake organic chemistry 2 at Georgetown University or some other local school..


PREMED REQUIREMENTS (done.):
Bio1: C- (B- lab)
Bio2: B+ (B lab)
GenChem1: C (B+ lab)
ChemChem2: B (A-lab)
Orgo1: B (B- lab)
Orgo2: D (B lab) <-- Want to retake this.
Physics1: B+ (A- lab)
Physics2: C (A- lab)
Calc1: A-
Calc2: C+

RELATED CLASSES:
Statistics: D (Freshman)
Medical Sociology: C+ (Freshman)
Psych1 (social psychology): C+
Psych2 (natural psychology): B-
Molecular Cell Biology: D+ (sophomore)



PRO taking senior year off (pro gap year):
- Make 50k a year, be able to graduate debt free and be able to sleep at night without thinking about debt
- The job I'm in now allows me to get clinical hours in Bethesda, MD... 10 min away from John Hopkins hospital, Georgetown Hospital, the NIH... If I went back to school senior year I would NOT have time to do well senior year while getting clinical hours (without a car). I don't want to push off clinical experience anymore. It looks really bad to admissions committees to be rushing to get clinical experience last minute! Clinical experience is at the heart of my passion and will help me know for sure that medicine is right for me.
- Have several months to REALLY focus and study on doing well on the MCAT. (critical for me because my GPA is not competitive) -- I feel it would be difficult to study for the MCAT (and doing well) during a rigorous senior year and don't want to push it off too far because the information is still fresh from being finished with pre-med classes. I'll be able to return to senior year classes without the stress of MCAT in the back of my mind.
- Be able to afford a car to drive to get clinical experience when I do go back to school (it's hard working without a car)
- Learn how to learn. If I'm being honest, my study skills are not efficient, and it has been a major cause of my failure. I want to keep learning, use Khan academy, buy all the text books I need. Re-study past material, master my weaknesses.
- Retake organic chemistry2. I can still take a class at the local university. This would also help me prep for the MCAT.
- Prep for senior year classes in advance (like molecular genetics, and biophysics and modeling) so that I can ace them when I start back. I will not allow myself to fall behind. This gap year will not be a "break"... I will stay focused and it will just allow me to be up to speed when i return. I am using this gap year to work hard and play catchup to be where I need to be.
- Focus on my physical and mental health (which has been put on the back-burner for 3 years now). I feel hopeless, lost interest in things that used to interest me (like learning and volunteering), because of a probable bout of depression.

CON of taking senior year off (con gap year):
- I have to reapply for acceptance (I've heard horror stories of people not being readmitted)
- My financial aid package might change (more money)
- I would have to reapply for housing or find off campus housing (a stressful experience)
- I would have to rebuild my senior year schedule from the bottom up (which wouldn't be too hard to do -- but is a stressful experience if certain classes are no longer offered, or if classes are full and I need an override)
- The social stigma of graduating late, not graduating on-time with my freshman hall, missing out on senior year friends

 

[blueharbor]

Whether or not you take a gap year, you will need more than just your senior year to raise your GPA. Also, medical schools will want to see more than one year of improvement. In your place, I would do an extra year of upper-level undergrad science courses. If you plan on DO, I would use that year to retake your low grades. Even as a postbacc student, you should be able to get financial aid that will cover most of your expenses at your state school if you enroll as a degree-seeking student (even if you don't plan on a second degree).

My other thought is that it will be difficult to study for the MCAT while working and getting clinical hours. People do it all the time, but since your MCAT score is so critical I would find a way to carve out a several-month period where it's the only thing in front of you. I did this, and had to take out many thousands of credit card debt, but it was worth it.

Otherwise, it does sound like you need a break from school to regenerate and refocus. Good luck!!

 

[Dancing Bull]

I would look at other career options. Best of luck.

 

[hoihaie]

stop thinking about going to med school for now. don't bother studying for the MCAT until later. YOu're gonna need gap years to make up for those GPA. Best way is through doing a postbac/SMP regardless to fix that GPA.

For senior year, focus on getting your grades up and don't worry about the MCAT or any other extracurriculars.

 

[Pattycake25]

I think medical school is thinking too many steps ahead of your current predicament. I am really sorry to hear how rough you have had it - it's certainly more than most premeds have to contend with. That being said though, med school admission isn't something you can earn by just doing your best with a crappy hand. You have to excel by absolute, universal standards, with very few and limited exceptions. While adcoms would pity your lot just like others, they simply can't justify admitting someone with a declining sub-3.0 GPA into one of the most notoriously difficult academic regimens out there. And if you were being totally objective (which is extremely difficult, yeah), you'd agree that you don't seem to have demonstrated the ability to thrive in a program as demanding as a medical degree - MD, DO, or even the Caribbean (as terrible a choice as that is for nearly anyone).

I think what you need to do is talk to an academic counselor. You need to figure out what it is that is destroying your grades - I would strongly suggest you consider the two jobs and/or the depression as very likely parties. You need to put together a plan for stabilizing yourself and getting yourself back on track academically, either by cutting back on work or by taking time off or employing tutors or whatever else you guys deem necessary. Do NOT be distracted by volunteering, or upper-level science courses, or the MCAT. You are doing this because no matter what path you take past undergrad, you need a better academic record for it to help you in ANY endeavor. If you pull your grades up to at least a 3.7 GPA, then you can start thinking about medical school again, which depends on not only all of the bolded above but also intensive GPA repair to get it at least above a 3.0 (no easy feat, when you have six semesters averaging about a 2.6). Anything less than a 3.7 in your remaining coursework though, and I would strongly advise you to look at alternate careers. Even though people get in with less than a 3.7 as an overall average, that's after factoring in the highs and lows of their undergrad. You have a colossal low - you can only hope to offset it with at LEAST a solid high.

I want to say this one more time, because your post reflects a lack of awareness as to how deep your hole is - do not think about medical school admissions. You have a lot of work to do first.

 

[SN12357]

I think medical school is thinking too many steps ahead of your current predicament. I am really sorry to hear how rough you have had it - it's certainly more than most premeds have to contend with. That being said though, med school admission isn't something you can earn by just doing your best with a crappy hand. You have to excel by absolute, universal standards, with very few and limited exceptions. While adcoms would pity your lot just like others, they simply can't justify admitting someone with a declining sub-3.0 GPA into one of the most notoriously difficult academic regimens out there. And if you were being totally objective (which is extremely difficult, yeah), you'd agree that you don't seem to have demonstrated the ability to thrive in a program as demanding as a medical degree - MD, DO, or even the Caribbean (as terrible a choice as that is for nearly anyone).

I think what you need to do is talk to an academic counselor. You need to figure out what it is that is destroying your grades - I would strongly suggest you consider the two jobs and/or the depression as very likely parties. You need to put together a plan for stabilizing yourself and getting yourself back on track academically, either by cutting back on work or by taking time off or employing tutors or whatever else you guys deem necessary. Do NOT be distracted by volunteering, or upper-level science courses, or the MCAT. You are doing this because no matter what path you take past undergrad, you need a better academic record for it to help you in ANY endeavor. If you pull your grades up to at least a 3.7 GPA, then you can start thinking about medical school again, which depends on not only all of the bolded above but also intensive GPA repair to get it at least above a 3.0 (no easy feat, when you have six semesters averaging about a 2.6). Anything less than a 3.7 in your remaining coursework though, and I would strongly advise you to look at alternate careers. Even though people get in with less than a 3.7 as an overall average, that's after factoring in the highs and lows of their undergrad. You have a colossal low - you can only hope to offset it with at LEAST a solid high.

I want to say this one more time, because your post reflects a lack of awareness as to how deep your hole is - do not think about medical school admissions. You have a lot of work to do first.

I was going to write out exactly this but then you beat me to it. Could not agree more.

 

[JeffBridges]

Talk to professors/counselors about study habits and skills if you haven't already - they are a good support system and can help you focus on identifying and fixing bad habits. If you are having trouble understanding the material, ask the professor if there is a tutor available for the class.

- Learn how to learn. If I'm being honest, my study skills are not efficient, and it has been a major cause of my failure. I want to keep learning, use Khan academy, buy all the text books I need. Re-study past material, master my weaknesses.

 

[V5RED]

I feel as though I am going nowhere in my undergraduate career. I am working really hard but I have not figured out how to work SMART or how I learn. I went though some personal emotional struggles freshman year with a death in the family that left me depressed but I stayed in school and pushed through it for 3 years. I don't think this did me any good. I had a 4.2 GPA in high school. I attend a "public ivy" undergrad. Just look at how my GPA suffered:

Freshman year overall GPA: 2.7
Sophomore: 2.6
Junior: 2.5
..... IM TERRIFIED because what was supposed to be my "swing back" to show that freshman year was just a fluke is actually turning into a disaster with a downhill trend. I have had to continuously work two jobs while in school to support myself which made studying stressful. I haven't even had time to get clinical experience
Senior year: TBA <--- I am considering the following plan:
- take a gap year SENIOR YEAR to student for the MCAT in January 2015 -- (still need to sign up for this)
- get a job that makes 50k a year for 30 hours a week -- acquired. If I take a gap year I will be set and will be able to support myself with housing, food, and a car and gas.
- With Mondays, Tuesday, and every other weekend off from work: Get Clinical experience (because I live in Bethesda, I am 20 min from John Hopkins hospital, Georgetown, GW and the NIH.)
- Retake organic chemistry 2 at Georgetown University or some other local school..


PREMED REQUIREMENTS (done.):
Bio1: C- (B- lab)
Bio2: B+ (B lab)
GenChem1: C (B+ lab)
ChemChem2: B (A-lab)
Orgo1: B (B- lab)
Orgo2: D (B lab) <-- Want to retake this.
Physics1: B+ (A- lab)
Physics2: C (A- lab)
Calc1: A-
Calc2: C+

RELATED CLASSES:
Statistics: D (Freshman)
Medical Sociology: C+ (Freshman)
Psych1 (social psychology): C+
Psych2 (natural psychology): B-
Molecular Cell Biology: D+ (sophomore)



PRO taking senior year off (pro gap year):
- Make 50k a year, be able to graduate debt free and be able to sleep at night without thinking about debt
- The job I'm in now allows me to get clinical hours in Bethesda, MD... 10 min away from John Hopkins hospital, Georgetown Hospital, the NIH... If I went back to school senior year I would NOT have time to do well senior year while getting clinical hours (without a car). I don't want to push off clinical experience anymore. It looks really bad to admissions committees to be rushing to get clinical experience last minute! Clinical experience is at the heart of my passion and will help me know for sure that medicine is right for me.
- Have several months to REALLY focus and study on doing well on the MCAT. (critical for me because my GPA is not competitive) -- I feel it would be difficult to study for the MCAT (and doing well) during a rigorous senior year and don't want to push it off too far because the information is still fresh from being finished with pre-med classes. I'll be able to return to senior year classes without the stress of MCAT in the back of my mind.
- Be able to afford a car to drive to get clinical experience when I do go back to school (it's hard working without a car)
- Learn how to learn. If I'm being honest, my study skills are not efficient, and it has been a major cause of my failure. I want to keep learning, use Khan academy, buy all the text books I need. Re-study past material, master my weaknesses.
- Retake organic chemistry2. I can still take a class at the local university. This would also help me prep for the MCAT.
- Prep for senior year classes in advance (like molecular genetics, and biophysics and modeling) so that I can ace them when I start back. I will not allow myself to fall behind. This gap year will not be a "break"... I will stay focused and it will just allow me to be up to speed when i return. I am using this gap year to work hard and play catchup to be where I need to be.
- Focus on my physical and mental health (which has been put on the back-burner for 3 years now). I feel hopeless, lost interest in things that used to interest me (like learning and volunteering), because of a probable bout of depression.

CON of taking senior year off (con gap year):
- I have to reapply for acceptance (I've heard horror stories of people not being readmitted)
- My financial aid package might change (more money)
- I would have to reapply for housing or find off campus housing (a stressful experience)
- I would have to rebuild my senior year schedule from the bottom up (which wouldn't be too hard to do -- but is a stressful experience if certain classes are no longer offered, or if classes are full and I need an override)
- The social stigma of graduating late, not graduating on-time with my freshman hall, missing out on senior year friends

Grade-wise, you know you are behind the eight ball. I don't know why, but if you discuss your issues with tutors, they may be able to pinpoint your issues. From my experience with the students I was a TA or RA for, their issues were usually laziness/motivation, poor time management skills, or studying like it is still high school. If it is really down to the depression, and that has crippled you for three years, then find a therapist and get it under control before you even think about taking another class. Get a therapist even if it isn't really the cause of your poor grades since this is a condition which should be treated.

You have 3 poor years in your history. That might take 3 more years to fix. You are looking at much more than a gap year to get into medical school, and I mean DO.

What is the job where you are making 50k as a part time employee straight out of college? Is it something you really enjoy? Is this job something that would scale up in income significantly over the years? Most people graduating would be thrilled to earn 50k working 30 hours straight out of college. Maybe this could be your career if you made it a full time job.

 

[sundancing]

You're going to need to take 1-2 gap years before you can even think about applying. Retake all classes that you got a C or below in and plan to apply exclusively to DO schools. University of Maryland actually has a great post-bacc program that you could get in-state tuition for. Good luck.

 

[baxt1412]

if you are deadset on MD, then it's going to be really tough.

if you are open to DO, it's still going to be really tough but you could retake all of your science classes.



ever thought about just going back for another 4 years of undergrad and getting a different major? that's a possibility. i'd still suggest maybe taking a year off before starting that. clearly you need to figure a few things out and you've done the first step - realizing there is a problem. sounds like you 1) may need to see a counselor of some sort to talk about the issues from your freshman year and 2)will need to get with the academic readiness department of your college and figure out studying/class plans.

 

[essiebee7]

Hi everyone, I just want to say I would be just as happy working as a PA or even masters in nursing! I don't care about the title anymore, I just want to be in the health field. Are those doors closed too?

I'm so far into my neuroscience major I just don't know what else I could major in...

 

[Dancing Bull]

Hi everyone, I just want to say I would be just as happy working as a PA or even masters in nursing! I don't care about the title anymore, I just want to be in the health field. Are those doors closed too?

I'm so far into my neuroscience major I just don't know what else I could major in...

PA schools are really competitive though. Many schools have matriculant avgs in the 3.4-3.7 ranges. They also share the same prerequisites as med schools almost and in addition, they require large amounts of clinical exp. It would be easier for you to go the PA route but in your current predicament, there's a LOT of work to do.

 

[SN12357]

PA schools are really competitive though. Many schools have matriculant avgs in the 3.4-3.7 ranges. They also share the same prerequisites as med schools almost and in addition, they require large amounts of clinical exp. It would be easier for you to go the PA route but in your current predicament, there's a LOT of work to do.

You're right about the competitiveness but the prereqs for PA aren't the same as med school. There's some overlap but generally speaking PA require more upper level bio classes (anatomy/physiology, etc) and generally don't require physics. Also although pretty much all the medical schools are on the same page re: prereqs, the PA schools requirements aren't standardized. My friends going for PA often had more frustrations than I did getting all the classes they needed while post-baccing because of these factors.

 

[ciestar]

Hi everyone, I just want to say I would be just as happy working as a PA or even masters in nursing! I don't care about the title anymore, I just want to be in the health field. Are those doors closed too?

I'm so far into my neuroscience major I just don't know what else I could major in...

Many of the PA schools I've looked at require ATLEAST a 3.0 gpa to even apply. Not to mention the insane amount of clinical hours many of them require. You'd probably be better off changing your major or transferring to a school that has a bachelors of nursing program. From there you can progress to a crnp program or whatever else you might want to do.

 

[moisne]

Go DO. I think you basically have close to no chance for MD. If you retake pre-req, DO will accept your highest grade.

Switch to nursing. Maybe transfer to PA later on.

 

[Pattycake25]

Hi everyone, I just want to say I would be just as happy working as a PA or even masters in nursing! I don't care about the title anymore, I just want to be in the health field. Are those doors closed too?

I'm so far into my neuroscience major I just don't know what else I could major in...

If you're wondering whether or not a 2.5 average GPA is sufficient for PA/nursing school standards, the answer is a resounding no. If you want to do ANY medical job, you will need to fix your issues first, and in order to do that you should heed my post from a few days ago.

 

[medicalmnt]

Unless you're commuting to at 4:00 AM from Baltimore <-> Bethesda.... it is definitely longer than 20 minutes.
There are plenty of hospitals closer to Bethesda like Shady Grove Adventist, not Hopkins but you're volunteering so what's the difference?


*I think retaking your classes that are under C+'s at UMD or something then doing DO might be the best idea.
Maybe you can completely destroy the MCAT (old) and score a 40+ then maybe even take the MCAT (new) and place beyond the 95th percentile. I'm sure a school like UMD-SOM will like that turn around.

 

[aklark]

If you're in a "probable bout of depression" you need to seek professional help ASAP. Your grades will not improve until you heal yourself.

Where are these 50k/year jobs straight out of a public university? NPR tells me most college graduates are working at Starbucks these days.

 

[BMC11]

Unless you're commuting to at 4:00 AM from Baltimore <-> Bethesda.... it is definitely longer than 20 minutes.
There are plenty of hospitals closer to Bethesda like Shady Grove Adventist, not Hopkins but you're volunteering so what's the difference?


*I think retaking your classes that are under C+'s at UMD or something then doing DO might be the best idea.
Maybe you can completely destroy the MCAT (old) and score a 40+ then maybe even take the MCAT (new) and place beyond the 95th percentile. I'm sure a school like UMD-SOM will like that turn around.

Hah, I thought the same thing about the Hopkins/Bethesda commute. You're gonna need to get up early for that.

As for the rest, I would focus on finishing your BA/BS first. Then, I would look at post-bacc programs. A post-bacc may be able to save you (and it may not). A gap year is a bad idea in the middle of undergrad and you are in no shape to be worrying about the MCAT.
Plus, you may need to retake that upper level bio course where you got a D too.
Finish your degree, and have the dean's office set you up with some student tutors. Every college provides them, usually for free. Those should be the only two things you are worried about right now.

 

[baxt1412]

so i'm just estimating of course, but go with it:

so your cGPA is about a 2.6 right now. (I just averaged the 3 GPAs you reported).
I assumed you were taking about 15 credits each semester.
You have one year left. I'm assuming you're taking 15 credits each semester.
If you could somehow over the summer figure out your depression, studying skills, etc and could pull a 4.0 the last two semesters in school you'd end up with a 3.03. Still most likely not good enough for DO unless you were to get a 35 or so (just throwing out a ballpark figure).

However, if you were to retake Bio1, Gen Chem 1, Orgo 2, Physics 2, Stats, Psych 1, and Molec/Cell Bio and were able to get all A's you would end up with a cGPA of 3.18. That is after getting a 4.0 your last two semesters. Do you see how difficult this is going to be for you? That being said, your sGPA would be somewhere around a 3.5 which isn't horrible.

I'd suggest talking with an advisor to be honest... this is going to take a lot of work. I still think starting fresh with a new major might be best. Yes it will be 2-3 years depending on what pre-reqs would count for both majors, etc... but you trashed your GPA for 3 years.. and it's going to take a lot of time to make it back up.

Unless you were to do a post-bacc/SMP and nail a 4.0 and then nail your MCAT with high 30s I don't think MD is in the picture.

And DO is probably only in the picture if you retake all science courses lower than a B-

 

[altitudinarian]

Everyone's advice here, and then look at the non-trad thread and read posts and ask people who were in a similar situation like yours. Because you'll definitely need to be a non-trad in order to successfully redo all the courses and then some more remediation in order to have strong chances at MD/DO. It's possible, I believe, to turn things around, but it's going to be a lot of hard work, much harder than going the straight path, because you have more to prove to med school admissions.

So:
1. Figure out you're weak spots, issues that are preventing you from doing your best

2. Find solid study resources/plans/tips/etc. and time management skills/plans (Cal Newport's How To Be a Straight-A Student and study hacks blog, Scott Young's Learning on Steroids Course, How to Get a 4.0 GPA kindle book, Getting Things Done, Harvard Review Business School's Time Management Book etc.)

3. ALWAYS modify and change things when they aren't working for you (I know old habits die hard, but if you want to succeed with anything in life, one needs to learn how to adapt and change when things aren't working). So switch up study tactics if you fail an exam because of simply not getting the material. Change up your time management skills if you're falling asleep in class, not getting reading done before class, getting assignments in on time, etc. Read this article: http://calnewport.com/blog/2009/03/09/the-straight-a-method-how-to-ace-college-courses/

4. If you are having issues (such as depression, addictions, mental hindrances, etc.) find a therapist and/or support group that can not only aid you but keep you accountable so that you're not allowing your issues to come in the way of getting your work done.

5. This isn't a must, but I've found this useful: Create a motivational scrapbook. Put in things such as quotes, images, letters from others, jobs, lifestyles, etc. whatever it is that you want your life to look like. It'll change, obviously, over time, but the point is to make yourself really look at what you want, and ask, "Am I willing to put in the time, effort, and dedication so I can achieve these wants I have?"

6. I highly recommend reading "The War of Art" by Steven Pressfield. No other book has made so real the powers of laziness, lack of motivation, etc. tangible and manageable. If one needs a kick in the rear to realize that one can overcome such obstacles, this book is one that will give you what you need.

And finally, but most importantly, try to develop this motto: Be better than I was yesterday. It makes you focus on the present, not too much in the future, and only reflect in the immediate yesterday. It gives one to make small, but meaningful changes every day, because to be better than you were yesterday requires you to do something different, something more, something good for yourself today. Moreover, having this motto also gets rid of focusing on how others are doing and focusing on what you need and want to do in your life. As a Stoic might say, "“Become so good and stop worrying if others ignore you.” Focus on developing a meaningful, well-lived life.

And here is some wisdom from a professor mentor who became an MD/PhD and does her work extremely well, at the same time, having an incredible propensity for doing fantastic work in her other non-work activities as well,

...most important thing to success in all aspects of life is finding true meaning in what you are doing...but while passion is the fuel, focus is the engine. Just focus, do less courses, and certainly far less activities, and first just establish a standard of excellence in one thing. Once that is mastered, you can gain confidence and develop some best practices that can help you add another, then another; but you'll burn yourself out and not do your best work if you try to do too much at once.


Other than that, talk with premed advisors, people whom are mentors in advising those well on a successful path to medical school, and anyone else who can give you solid guidance in doing good work and to keep on pursuing your goals, whether it be going to med school or becoming a PA or nurse.

Good luck!