Declining waitlist spots to apply again??

[northvest213]

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I anticipate a strong reaction to this question, so lets establish a couple of things...

1. I have a different SDN account. I made this account for the purpose of asking this question (To remain anonymous and avoid the hate that the question could generate)

2. I am NOT trolling here this is a serious question about a serious issue, please take it as such.

Here is my question/situation: I applied to multiple med. schools for matriculation in the fall of 2012, I was wait listed at 2 schools, which I was extremely excited about. From what I know about one of the schools and my spot on its wait list, I have a substantial chance of getting in. Since learning about this news, my situation has changed.... a family member is struggling with a serious medical condition and the schools are far away from my hometown. I am aware of the options of deferment and transferring and even if I was able to secure one of these options I don't think it would fit my situation.

I have read on SDN how EXTREMELY frowned upon it is to decline an acceptance and that it could mean you are blacklisted or could have a reduced chance at an acceptance for a future year. I have also read that schools will know that you declined an acceptance.
Thus, I am considering asking to be removed from both wait list spots. If I didn't decline the wait list spot and ended up getting accepted and then had to decline the acceptance I could end up in a worse position. I know that I MIGHT be able to explain my situation to the school I apply to in the future, however the school may not even give me that chance or even consider my reasoning (There are risks associated with plan).

Due to my situation, I am wondering several things:
1) would schools who rejected me (schools near my hometown) know I declined two wait list offers at other schools?
2) Is there any chance of getting blacklisted from declining a wait list offer?
3) Is there any other factor that would reduce my chances of getting accepted at my hometown school(s)?
4) would giving up my spots on these wait lists prevent schools the negative repercussions of waiting for a possible acceptance and then declining that?

Before you post how vain I am and how I only want to go to top tier school ect., know this: 1) One of the schools I am wait listed at is a top school and has 10x the prestige factor and name recognition of my hometown school(s) 2) This would be a very hard thing for me to do since I genuinely want to be accepted at either of these schools. I am considering the options and want information and help, not judgements.

I am aware of how challenging it is to get an acceptance (I do not take this lightly) and that the risk of not being accepted in a future year is significant. However, I have been strengthening my app since I submitted it (in-case I have to reapply) and it is much improved. I have also been preparing for another stab at the MCAT and my practice test scores have already been at least 5 points higher overall than my practice test average (I have taken another year of coursework including a prereq. course I didn't take before my 1st test---I really have learned a lot since my first attempt). So... I feel that my application would be significantly better. I also could apply much earlier (I have learned that my hometown school(s) puts a high value on applying early/has a very fast rolling admissions process.

I am VERY sorry for the length of this post, but I hope it is clear enough to explain my situation. Any help is greatly, greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!(especially in providing sincere, factual information about questions 1-4) feel free to PM me if you want to avoid throwing yourself into the fray)

here goes.......posting.....

 

[armybound]

The schools near your hometown shouldn't know.
There is a chance of being blacklisted.
Some people think being a reapplicant makes you less likely to be accepted (if you were so great, you would have been accepted the first time around)
Yes, giving up your spot would be better than declining an acceptance.

How far away from your hometown are we talking? Several states away? A few hours?

 

[northvest213]

Thanks army bound! One is across the country and the other is halfway across the country and no flights directly from the schools to my hometown (other arrangements would have to be made i.e. renting a car, bus, ect.) 🙁

Also, what is "blacklisted" I have really only heard the term and guessed at its meaning (barred from applying to med. school?)

 

[armybound]

It means they won't even consider your application if you applied there again, automatic rejection.

 

[EBTrailRunner]

across the country and no direct flights 🙁
Also, what is "blacklisted" I have really only heard the term and guessed at its meaning.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+does+blacklisted+mean?

 

[EBTrailRunner]

If you're waitlisted at a school and withdraw your application, expect that school to remember when you re-apply next cycle.

 

[northvest213]

It means they won't even consider your application if you applied there again, automatic rejection.

is there one blacklist for all med. schools or are there black lists at each school, for that school only? (Could you be blacklisted at one school and not another?)

 

[Beekachu]

I anticipate a strong reaction to this question, so lets establish a couple of things...

1. I have a different SDN account. I made this account for the purpose of asking this question (To remain anonymous and avoid the hate that the question could generate)

2. I am NOT trolling here this is a serious question about a serious issue, please take it as such.

Here is my question/situation: I applied to multiple med. schools for matriculation in the fall of 2012, I was wait listed at 2 schools, which I was extremely excited about. From what I know about one of the schools and my spot on its wait list, I have a substantial chance of getting in. Since learning about this news, my situation has changed.... a family member is struggling with a serious medical condition and the schools are far away from my hometown. I am aware of the options of deferment and transferring and even if I was able to secure one of these options I don't think it would fit my situation.

I have read on SDN how EXTREMELY frowned upon it is to decline an acceptance and that it could mean you are blacklisted or could have a reduced chance at an acceptance for a future year. I have also read that schools will know that you declined an acceptance.
Thus, I am considering asking to be removed from both wait list spots. If I didn't decline the wait list spot and ended up getting accepted and then had to decline the acceptance I could end up in a worse position. I know that I MIGHT be able to explain my situation to the school I apply to in the future, however the school may not even give me that chance or even consider my reasoning (There are risks associated with plan).

Due to my situation, I am wondering several things:
1) would schools who rejected me (schools near my hometown) know I declined two wait list offers at other schools?
2) Is there any chance of getting blacklisted from declining a wait list offer?
3) Is there any other factor that would reduce my chances of getting accepted at my hometown school(s)?
4) would giving up my spots on these wait lists prevent schools the negative repercussions of waiting for a possible acceptance and then declining that?

Before you post how vain I am and how I only want to go to top tier school ect., know this: 1) One of the schools I am wait listed at is a top school and has 10x the prestige factor and name recognition of my hometown school(s) 2) This would be a very hard thing for me to do since I genuinely want to be accepted at either of these schools. I am considering the options and want information and help, not judgements.

I am aware of how challenging it is to get an acceptance (I do not take this lightly) and that the risk of not being accepted in a future year is significant. However, I have been strengthening my app since I submitted it (in-case I have to reapply) and it is much improved. I have also been preparing for another stab at the MCAT and my practice test scores have already been at least 5 points higher overall than my practice test average (I have taken another year of coursework including a prereq. course I didn't take before my 1st test---I really have learned a lot since my first attempt). So... I feel that my application would be significantly better. I also could apply much earlier (I have learned that my hometown school(s) puts a high value on applying early/has a very fast rolling admissions process.

I am VERY sorry for the length of this post, but I hope it is clear enough to explain my situation. Any help is greatly, greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!(especially in providing sincere, factual information about questions 1-4) feel free to PM me if you want to avoid throwing yourself into the fray)

here goes.......posting.....

If you feel positive that the right decision for you is to take a gap year and try like hell to get into your local medical school, then do it. It's a tough decision to have to make, but do what you know to be right for you. At least with withdrawing from a waitlist, there are no regrets.. since there's really no way to know 100% that you would have been accepted.

That being said, I think your only options will be to withdraw to apply again or to take the acceptance elsewhere if it comes. A school will choose to accept you from the waitlist to fill a vacant seat in the class.. so you won't likely have the option of deferment.

As long as you have concrete plans/actions in place to feel confident that your second application will be significantly improve, then go for it. Note that you only have a few months before the new application starts (especially if you plan to apply very early).

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+does+blacklisted+mean%3F

This is pretty funny, but please stop trolling. OP is asking a serious question. Being blacklisted in this sense is a jargon term that can have slightly different implications in different contexts. In the case of med school, my thoughts on the meaning are pure conjecture. There might be a specific meaning to a med school blacklist. I'm not even convinced there is a "blacklist" at all. I get the impression that being blacklisted is something made up on SDN.

I would call the schools and ask what their policy is on accepted students who reapply. (Especially considering your circumstances.)

 

[Beekachu]

is there one blacklist for all med. schools or are there black lists at each school, for that school only? (Could you be blacklisted at one school and not another?)

Schools that you applied to can see where you've been accepted after a certain date, so that in future applications they may have record of that. Whether or not a school monitors this and whether or not a school will even hold it against you is speculation I think..

At least in my re-application, I don't ever remember being asked if I was previously accepted (I was not...) but AMCAS does ask about prior matriculation.

 

[kpcrew]

This is pretty funny, but please stop trolling. OP is asking a serious question. Being blacklisted in this sense is a jargon term that can have slightly different implications in different contexts. In the case of med school, my thoughts on the meaning are pure conjecture. There might be a specific meaning to a med school blacklist. I'm not even convinced there is a "blacklist" at all. I get the impression that being blacklisted is something made up on SDN.

I would call the schools and ask what their policy is on accepted students who reapply. (Especially considering your circumstances.)

I've heard of someone getting blacklisted from a medical school but it was unrelated to admissions.

 

[flatearth22]

Schools that you applied to can see where you've been accepted after a certain date, so that in future applications they may have record of that. Whether or not a school monitors this and whether or not a school will even hold it against you is speculation I think..

At least in my re-application, I don't ever remember being asked if I was previously accepted (I was not...) but AMCAS does ask about prior matriculation.

This. As long as you weren't officially "accepted" by a school then no one will know about you being high on the waitlists except you and those respective schools that put you on the waitlist. Schools can never see where you applied, where you are waitlisted, and where you are rejected. The only thing they can see is where you were accepted.

So you'll basically be screwed at those 2 schools since you essentially turned them down (even if it was just a waitlist) but you can honestly answer "No" to the question "Have you previously been accepted to a medical school" which means you won't be blacklisted at other schools (they'll just treat you like a re-applicant).

So you have 2 "winning" options and 1 losing option. The winning options are to 1) Get off the waitlist and matriculate but have to deal with the ailing family member and 2) Withdraw immediately before they can accept you so you can reapply without being blacklisted. The losing option of course is to get accepted but then have to decline and reapply because then you might get blacklisted all over.

 

[DAPI]

The schools near your hometown shouldn't know.
There is a chance of being blacklisted.
Some people think being a reapplicant makes you less likely to be accepted (if you were so great, you would have been accepted the first time around)
Yes, giving up your spot would be better than declining an acceptance.

How far away from your hometown are we talking? Several states away? A few hours?

1) I think the term "blacklisted" is a little harsh as the schools, if you where accepted and declined, would remember you, but I do not think they would automatically put your application is the round file. Especially if you were to inform them of the situation when withdrawing.

2) This is more of a general statement and not particular to yours, but I do not think being a re-applicant hurts your chances all that much, if at all. 1/4 of all applicants every year are re-applicants and if they had less of a chance the second time around that many people would not be re-applying. Also, these people have had another year+ to show dedication to medicine and ramp up the EC's, so if anything, they should be more desirable as they likely have more real world experience (maturity) and more experiences to speak to in their PS, AMCAS application, and interview.

 

[HeronsBeak]

I think you should talk to your family, if you haven't done so already. I understand the desire to stay home, hell I didn't even leave my state for UG, but turning down a possible admission into a top tier school is a big decision. As others have said, if your family member gets better and you decide you want to go to that school, you won't likely be able to. If it were me, I think it would be a very hard decision, but I would try to fly home and rent a car every 2 weekends or so to see my family. I understand that will cost some $, but you can always just increase your loan amount to cover the extra expense. This option also makes sure you stay on track to become a doctor in a timely manner. If said family member gets significantly worse and is put in hospice, will you even be willing to go to state school? A sick family member can put a hold on a lot of life plans if you let them. I'm not trying to be harsh, but I think you should consider what is important to you. If going to school makes said family member proud and they know you were hard pressed to go, but make every effort to get home when you can, I am certain they will understand. Think long and hard before making an essentially life changing decision, and good luck in your future.

 

[music2doc]

I anticipate a strong reaction to this question, so lets establish a couple of things...

1. I have a different SDN account. I made this account for the purpose of asking this question (To remain anonymous and avoid the hate that the question could generate)

2. I am NOT trolling here this is a serious question about a serious issue, please take it as such.

Here is my question/situation: I applied to multiple med. schools for matriculation in the fall of 2012, I was wait listed at 2 schools, which I was extremely excited about. From what I know about one of the schools and my spot on its wait list, I have a substantial chance of getting in. Since learning about this news, my situation has changed.... a family member is struggling with a serious medical condition and the schools are far away from my hometown. I am aware of the options of deferment and transferring and even if I was able to secure one of these options I don't think it would fit my situation.

I have read on SDN how EXTREMELY frowned upon it is to decline an acceptance and that it could mean you are blacklisted or could have a reduced chance at an acceptance for a future year. I have also read that schools will know that you declined an acceptance.
Thus, I am considering asking to be removed from both wait list spots. If I didn't decline the wait list spot and ended up getting accepted and then had to decline the acceptance I could end up in a worse position. I know that I MIGHT be able to explain my situation to the school I apply to in the future, however the school may not even give me that chance or even consider my reasoning (There are risks associated with plan).

Due to my situation, I am wondering several things:
1) would schools who rejected me (schools near my hometown) know I declined two wait list offers at other schools?
2) Is there any chance of getting blacklisted from declining a wait list offer?
3) Is there any other factor that would reduce my chances of getting accepted at my hometown school(s)?
4) would giving up my spots on these wait lists prevent schools the negative repercussions of waiting for a possible acceptance and then declining that?

Before you post how vain I am and how I only want to go to top tier school ect., know this: 1) One of the schools I am wait listed at is a top school and has 10x the prestige factor and name recognition of my hometown school(s) 2) This would be a very hard thing for me to do since I genuinely want to be accepted at either of these schools. I am considering the options and want information and help, not judgements.

I am aware of how challenging it is to get an acceptance (I do not take this lightly) and that the risk of not being accepted in a future year is significant. However, I have been strengthening my app since I submitted it (in-case I have to reapply) and it is much improved. I have also been preparing for another stab at the MCAT and my practice test scores have already been at least 5 points higher overall than my practice test average (I have taken another year of coursework including a prereq. course I didn't take before my 1st test---I really have learned a lot since my first attempt). So... I feel that my application would be significantly better. I also could apply much earlier (I have learned that my hometown school(s) puts a high value on applying early/has a very fast rolling admissions process.

I am VERY sorry for the length of this post, but I hope it is clear enough to explain my situation. Any help is greatly, greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!(especially in providing sincere, factual information about questions 1-4) feel free to PM me if you want to avoid throwing yourself into the fray)

here goes.......posting.....

Yes, it would be better to decline a wait list than an acceptance, but honestly, what makes you think if you've been wait listed at several less desirable schools (and presumably rejected from the rest) that next year you would be any more likely to suddenly be accepted by the schools that rejected you this year? I'd suggest you're in a better spot going ahead and taking one of those wait list acceptances should it be offered to you (i.e., stay on the wait lists). The goal here is to become a doctor, not to go to school X.

As for being black listed from the schools you're currently on the wait list at, this is quite likely. I have also heard of schools you did not send a secondary too or withdrew from (at the interview stage) blacklisting you. In other words, it is best not to turn down anything until you actually have an acceptance in hand.

 

[music2doc]

1) I think the term "blacklisted" is a little harsh as the schools, if you where accepted and declined, would remember you, but I do not think they would automatically put your application is the round file. Especially if you were to inform them of the situation when withdrawing.

2) This is more of a general statement and not particular to yours, but I do not think being a re-applicant hurts your chances all that much, if at all. 1/4 of all applicants every year are re-applicants and if they had less of a chance the second time around that many people would not be re-applying. Also, these people have had another year+ to show dedication to medicine and ramp up the EC's, so if anything, they should be more desirable as they likely have more real world experience (maturity) and more experiences to speak to in their PS, AMCAS application, and interview.

1) I have heard of schools doing this. When you have 5,000-15,000 applicants, you have to have quick ways of thinning the herd. One of them is to reject anyone whose interest is obviously dubious (e.g., those who've shown they are flaky in the past); another is to screen out anyone with a low/mediocre MCAT/GPA. By the time schools get to the interview level, the differences between students' credentials are remarkably small. A mentor of mine who has sat on several different AdComs during his career told me that even when looking for someone specific within the post-interview pool, it is often hard to find anything unique about that individual because everyone's credentials are so similar.

2) Re-applicants have a lower chance of getting into a medical school. That's the short version (about 39% vs 48% for 1st-time applicants). Re-applicants are scrutinized differently. The fact is that applicant competitiveness at most schools increases every every. As a result, the OP can expect to enter an EVEN MORE competitive pool next year. This, plus the fact that schools are aware s/he is not the cream of the crop (i.e., everyone rejected him/her this cycle), puts a re-applicant at a disadvantage. I think it is important to weigh your options, OP. Of course, if you and I share any wait lists, feel free to drop! 😉 j/k...

 

[LizzyM]

When someone turns down an offer of admission, or removes themself from a waitlist without an offer in hand, adcoms have to wonder if the person wanted to attend medical school or was just trying to prove something. So, your passion for medicine and medical school becomes suspect. With 10 strong applicants for every seat (and far more than 10:1 if you count all comers) a school is going to be looking for people who intend to matriculate, not people who are applying on a whim or a lark.

At this point you don't have an offer and if you really want to attend medical school, you'll start preparing your application the day the application cycle opens; who knows, you might have better luck applying in the late spring than waiting until fall.

Meanwhile, someone is sick? It happens. Unless you have durable power of attorney for health care for that person, or you are the sole next of kin, or the family member is your spouse or child, the place you need to be is in school, not sitting close to home being "supportive". Is your family member going to be better off in 4 years if you are holding your MD diploma or if you are still a year or more away from that goal? I'm not asking you to answer these questions publicly but you do need to think about it. I know that it seems self-sacrificing to be close to a family member who is sick but at this stage of your life, you have to continue moving forward in preparing for your career or you wind up in a dead-end job having sacrificed your potential.

 

[235009]

How many years do you think you'll need before starting med school? If the answer is only 1 then one option is to just be honest with the two schools you are waitlisted at. Send them a humble letter letting them know that, if accepted you will need to defer and explain your situation in enough detail to make a hardened adcom (like LizzyM apparently) sympathetic to your cause. Lay it all out there and wait. If they are willing to have you in next year's class then they will accept you and give you a deferral. If not they'll eventually reject you and you can be a reapplicant without all the "blacklist" BS. Just make sure you are very humble in your letter and also take the opportunity to update them on all the wonderful things you've done (after getting to the point of the letter in the first paragraph, that is)

Meanwhile, someone is sick? It happens. Unless you have durable power of attorney for health care for that person, or you are the sole next of kin, or the family member is your spouse or child, the place you need to be is in school, not sitting close to home being "supportive". Is your family member going to be better off in 4 years if you are holding your MD diploma or if you are still a year or more away from that goal? I'm not asking you to answer these questions publicly but you do need to think about it. I know that it seems self-sacrificing to be close to a family member who is sick but at this stage of your life, you have to continue moving forward in preparing for your career or you wind up in a dead-end job having sacrificed your potential.

the family member might be dead in 4 years...or < 1 year for that matter. If it is a prolonged illness, like you assume, maybe OP will be better able to deal with it in a year. The absolute worse thing OP can do right now is go to med school across the country and be preoccupied by this family member's illness. You don't want to screw yourself down the line (by failing multiple preclinical courses or failing first year) because you wanted to rush into an MD. Med school, especially first year, is already emotionally taxing with a support system close-by and no sick/dying relative ....I'm sure lacking both those would be enough to tip someone over the edge and bring on failing grades.

 

[Shmemifly]

I agree with skinMD 100%. Why do we all feel the need to rush so quickly? Med school will still be there. There will be plenty of times in your career when you won't be ABLE to put family before medicine --- this is not one of those situations.

I know that I would not be able to come even CLOSE to 'hitting the ground running' at a faraway med school if a first degree relative were seriously ill. I think you are right to consider alternatives. You sound like you have squared with the fact that this may mean you don't attend the "best" medical school you can get into.

a) I don't believe individual reapplicants face any significant disadvantage inherent to reapplying. Clearly, comparing the rate of acceptance of reapplicants with a pool of first time applicants (cited above as 38% vs 49%) is apples and oranges. If anything the fact that the 51% who are not accepted the first time around get in at a rate of 38% the very next time says that most people actively improve the second time.

b) I can't imagine being on a waitlist would ever be reported to other schools. Being on an accepted list we DO know is reported to other schools, so you are right to consider dropping off the waitlist if you know now. Whether or not schools actively use that previously accepted list is up for debate, but you may as well avoid the risk.

I think your best bet is not to get accepted this round.

 

[LizzyM]

How many years do you think you'll need before starting med school? If the answer is only 1 then one option is to just be honest with the two schools you are waitlisted at. Send them a humble letter letting them know that, if accepted you will need to defer and explain your situation in enough detail to make a hardened adcom (like LizzyM apparently) sympathetic to your cause. Lay it all out there and wait. If they are willing to have you in next year's class then they will accept you and give you a deferral. If not they'll eventually reject you and you can be a reapplicant without all the "blacklist" BS. Just make sure you are very humble in your letter and also take the opportunity to update them on all the wonderful things you've done (after getting to the point of the letter in the first paragraph, that is)

If I'm trying to fill the class from the waitlist, I'm NOT going to call someone who wrote to me and said that they won't matriculate if offered a space on the waitlist but will gladly matriculate the following year. So, while that seems like a great idea, unless you are so great that you'd be a top pick for 2014, the school is not likely to jump at the chance to make you the first admitted student of the next season.

the family member might be dead in 4 years...or < 1 year for that matter. If it is a prolonged illness, like you assume, maybe OP will be better able to deal with it in a year. The absolute worse thing OP can do right now is go to med school across the country and be preoccupied by this family member's illness. You don't want to screw yourself down the line (by failing multiple preclinical courses or failing first year) because you wanted to rush into an MD. Med school, especially first year, is already emotionally taxing with a support system close-by and no sick/dying relative ....I'm sure lacking both those would be enough to tip someone over the edge and bring on failing grades.

Frankly, I have to wonder if someone worried about a sick relative is actually having cold feet about going away from home and is trying to justify going out of the running and trying again with schools close to home. If you were in your first year of medical school right now, rather almost starting first year, would you ask the school for a leave of absence to go home? Why or why not? Again, I'm not expecting OP to answer publicly but to think about this.

 

[235009]

If I'm trying to fill the class from the waitlist, I'm NOT going to call someone who wrote to me and said that they won't matriculate if offered a space on the waitlist but will gladly matriculate the following year. So, while that seems like a great idea, unless you are so great that you'd be a top pick for 2014, the school is not likely to jump at the chance to make you the first admitted student of the next season.

and this is most likely what both the schools he's on the waitlist at will end up doing. however by putting the ball in their court he doesn't have to decline the waitlist spots and can be a reapplicant who wasnt accepted the first time around ...just like any other reapplicant

 

[Gut Shot]

I am considering the options and want information and help, not judgements.

You will need to cough up some more details before anyone can give you anything truly useful. "A family member is struggling with a serious medical condition." That could mean your mother has Stage IV pancreatic cancer, in which case it would be good to stick around. Or it could mean your second cousin keeps huffing paint thinner, which isn't such a viable reason.