Defer for 1st author pub?

[pouncekat]

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Hi guys! Not sure if this is in the right place, so mods move as appropriate...

I have 2 acceptances currently but I am considering deferring 1 year to publish a first author paper. I have been working on this project on my own for several months and my PI is 100% sure that it is something publishable.

The problem is, I (and my PI and collaborator) don't think 5 months will be enough to do this. I love research and want to see it through, especially since this would be my first 1st author pub and the field is medically related, though basic sciences oriented (DNA repair and genetic instability).

My question is, would having a 1st author pub be a significant asset in obtaining a competitive residency, enough so that it would make a deferral worthwhile? I have searched through all the old threads and haven't found anything specific to my situation. Thanks!!!!!!!!!! 😛

 

[StIGMA]

That is a terrible idea, IMO. Unless the prof thinks you will be scooped or this is going into NEJM, get as much done as you can now, then come back and finish whatever data you need to obtain during the summer after your first year.

 

[Red Leader]

I wouldn't do it. Unless this is a Nature, Science, PNAS, Cell, or NEJM paper, I would not defer. Even if it were to be published in those journals, I'd seriously consider just busting my ass during those 5 months full time like 16 hours a day. That said, I vote against the deferral and just busting your ass for those 5 months.

 

[cpants]

I don't think it's as cut and dry as the others are making it seem. A good quality first-author publication could help you to get a better residency, land an academic job later, etc. Of course completing the study over your first year would give you the best of both worlds, but this may not be possible. A research opportunity is a reason for deferral, so weigh your options carefully before you decide.

 

[Depakote]

I wouldn't do it.

Undergrad publications will get you into medical school, but my Office of Student Life Guru told me that they're reworking the ERAS system so that pubs made during med school will be hold significantly more weight (or at least be distinguishable from ugrad pubs) when applying for residency. It's not worth delaying a year just to be first author. If you've put enough work into the project and they still publish (presumably they will), they should still put your name on it.

 

[Mr hawkings]

I did do this and i am getting ready to submit my manuscript. I dont regret it, especially since the topic i am publishing in is the new hot area in the field i hope to go into.

 

[richse]

I wouldn't do it.

Undergrad publications will get you into medical school, but my Office of Student Life Guru told me that they're reworking the ERAS system so that pubs made during med school will be hold significantly more weight (or at least be distinguishable from ugrad pubs) when applying for residency. It's not worth delaying a year just to be first author. If you've put enough work into the project and they still publish (presumably they will), they should still put your name on it.

I'm a non-trad med student getting ready to start med school (class of 2013), I have published quite a few papers while I was doing a post-bacc program and working full time in a lab. Are you telling me these papers will mean less because I didn't publish them during med school? I also have a paper in submission now and one I'm writing that will be my last pub before I quit the lab and start school. These will likely have a publication date in 2009 or even 2010 depending on reviews. How will they be distinguished from any work I do in medical school?

 

[pouncekat]

I'm a non-trad med student getting ready to start med school (class of 2013), I have published quite a few papers while I was doing a post-bacc program and working full time in a lab. Are you telling me these papers will mean less because I didn't publish them during med school? I also have a paper in submission now and one I'm writing that will be my last pub before I quit the lab and start school. These will likely have a publication date in 2009 or even 2010 depending on reviews. How will they be distinguished from any work I do in medical school?

This is a great question, I'd like to know this as well. If the quality of the journal is good and the research submitted is solid, I'm not sure why it would be looked down upon just because you weren't in medical school at the time of publication.

Thanks for the responses. I should add that I am very interested in pursuing academic medicine after residency and in that regard I'm not sure this decision is as easy for me as it would be for someone who wants to practice only. If this project was something that I only contributed pieces to, then I definitely wouldn't mind just being a co-author and leaving it for other people to finish. But because I was there from the beginning, conceived the idea for and did all of the grunt work to get this going, I feel like it would be a waste of a great first-author molecular biology publication that I would not get a chance to do again.

 

[Cujo]

I'm a non-trad med student getting ready to start med school (class of 2013), I have published quite a few papers while I was doing a post-bacc program and working full time in a lab. Are you telling me these papers will mean less because I didn't publish them during med school? I also have a paper in submission now and one I'm writing that will be my last pub before I quit the lab and start school. These will likely have a publication date in 2009 or even 2010 depending on reviews. How will they be distinguished from any work I do in medical school?

Undergrad research just isn't the same level as med school research. I know this. You know this. Most importantly, program directors know this.

Like was said, undergrad research helps get you into med school. You start with a clean slate on day one of med school.

 

[richse]

Undergrad research just isn't the same level as med school research. I know this. You know this. Most importantly, program directors know this.

Like was said, undergrad research helps get you into med school. You start with a clean slate on day one of med school.

I don't agree with your assertion and I would argue that you are very wrong.

First, the quality of undergrad research can vary greatly depending on who is doing the work, their mentor, the lab, etc. I would say the same for med school research. In my lab we have undergrad students, medical students, techs, graduate students, and post-docs working together on projects. When someone gets an interesting result they write it up. The papers that get published are all quality research. That's the point of the peer-review system. I would say the only way you might judge a higher level paper would be from journal impact and if that is the case, a former lab post-bacc would come out on top as of today. I seriously disagree with the extreme generalization you have made. Additionally, when I published most of my papers I was not an undergrad, which why I asked my question about how my papers will be viewed?

 

[richse]

This is a great question, I'd like to know this as well. If the quality of the journal is good and the research submitted is solid, I'm not sure why it would be looked down upon just because you weren't in medical school at the time of publication.

Thanks for the responses. I should add that I am very interested in pursuing academic medicine after residency and in that regard I'm not sure this decision is as easy for me as it would be for someone who wants to practice only. If this project was something that I only contributed pieces to, then I definitely wouldn't mind just being a co-author and leaving it for other people to finish. But because I was there from the beginning, conceived the idea for and did all of the grunt work to get this going, I feel like it would be a waste of a great first-author molecular biology publication that I would not get a chance to do again.

That is a good journal, I would also be upset if I couldn't finish my work and get the pub out. Is there any way you could get the bench work done in the next five months and just write the paper after leaving the lab. My PI is very good about giving credit where credit is due. He will work with people, even after they have left the lab, so they can get the paper out. If you are lucky, the reviews might come back in the fall and you could handle any new experiments they might ask for over winter break. Alternatively, if it's not feasible to get back into the lab over break or whenever the reviews come back would one of the other authors be able to help with revisions? We do this kind of thing all the time so your PI would probably go for it.

 

[Doublecortin]

I don't agree with your assertion and I would argue that you are very wrong.

First, the quality of undergrad research can vary greatly depending on who is doing the work, their mentor, the lab, etc. I would say the same for med school research. In my lab we have undergrad students, medical students, techs, graduate students, and post-docs working together on projects. When someone gets an interesting result they write it up. The papers that get published are all quality research. That's the point of the peer-review system. I would say the only way you might judge a higher level paper would be from journal impact and if that is the case, a former lab post-bacc would come out on top as of today. I seriously disagree with the extreme generalization you have made. Additionally, when I published most of my papers I was not an undergrad, which why I asked my question about how my papers will be viewed?

I wouldn't do it. I disagree with people who say pre-med research cannot be very high quality, especially if you are first author. But what I think people were saying is that for residency, program directors care a LOT more what you did DURING med school rather than before. I mean your previous pubs will still count of course, but they won't be given the same weight as pubs while in med school.

Plus think about it, a year is a VERY long time. In time opportunity cost, you'll be wasting ~150-200 K down the road just to finish a 1st author publication. And like someone said, if you did most of the work, you should still be the 1st author even if someone else finishes it

 

[Cujo]

I don't agree with your assertion and I would argue that you are very wrong.

Of course you don't agree. What I said doesn't benefit you and isn't what you wanted to hear.

 

[confuse]

I think research that is done before med school but submitted and published during med school is counted as med school publications, since the process of writing and peer-editing is as much a part of research as the bench work part of it. However, if the paper was published before entering med school, then that's viewed as other publications. From what I heard, any publications is good but med school publications are much better in the eyes of residency selection. Unless you have some personal reasons to get through med school quickly, I think if the research has the quality to be published in a good journal, then it's worth it since it's very difficult to generate a first author basic science article in med school. Keep in mind that research in your field of interest weighs more than general research.

 

[BozoSparky]

I would not defer...go to medical school!

I went to graduate school before medical school with a few projects going.

The "we only need 5 months" line from the PI can go on forever...research is just that way.

Also, I don't agree that you have a completely clean slate as a medical student. I did not find this was the case when I applied and interviewed for residency this winter. Medical school research is very important, though!

 

[confuse]

The "we only need 5 months" line from the PI can go on forever...research is just that way.

Very good point. What I found a bit concerning about this post was that the OP seems to have more research to do in the days ahead than what's he/she has already got done.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Nothing's guaranteed in research, I wouldn't risk it. Submission and revision can take many months. If you don't wrap it up by the end of the year someone could easily poach your paper once you're not physically at the lab.

 

[sirus_virus]

Hi guys! Not sure if this is in the right place, so mods move as appropriate...

I have 2 acceptances currently but I am considering deferring 1 year to publish a first author paper. I have been working on this project on my own for several months and my PI is 100% sure that it is something publishable.

The problem is, I (and my PI and collaborator) don't think 5 months will be enough to do this. I love research and want to see it through, especially since this would be my first 1st author pub and the field is medically related, though basic sciences oriented (DNA repair and genetic instability).

My question is, would having a 1st author pub be a significant asset in obtaining a competitive residency, enough so that it would make a deferral worthwhile? I have searched through all the old threads and haven't found anything specific to my situation. Thanks!!!!!!!!!! 😛

No reasonable medschool will let you defer just so you can get a publication, and i dont think this publication is going to be the spring that bounces you into that residency either. Medical training is a long process, so there is no need throwing in extra years for nothing.

 

[Habeed]

Here's my reasoning on the subject. Why do you want a publication at all? To get a better residency.

Ok, so you do well in medical school, and maybe a summer research fellowship between M1->M2. You apply to that dream ENT/Ortho/neuro/Derm/plastics/rads residency and try to get in.

Odds are, if you did well in medical school (230+ step 1, AOA) you will get that residency even without the publication. You'll be doing your interesting job a year sooner, and be a year closer to making the big money.

And if you don't match, then and only then, you can waste a year on research.

The 'marginal difference' from doing the research is probably on the order of 5% or less. Meaning, you might have an 85% chance of matching without the research and a 90% chance with. That marginal difference is not worth doing, and it is simple matter to calculate the 'value' of the research.

Say your dream specialty pays attendings $200k a year, and research boosts your odds of getting it by 5%. So that research year is worth $10k...versus an opportunity cost of 200k. It's a no brainer.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Odds are, if you did well in medical school (230+ step 1, AOA) you will get that residency even without the publication. You'll be doing your interesting job a year sooner, and be a year closer to making the big money.

You make it sound so easy

 

[SoCuteMD]

Whether the publication helps you or not really hinges on whether you continue to do research in medical school that relates to your future field.

I deferred a year and I really really enjoyed that year. I think you should defer ONLY if you'd enjoy it independent of a publication. If you don't end up getting a publication out of it, then how will you feel about a year?

As for the "opportunity cost" I generally think this is negligible. Is 200k negligible? Definitely not. That being said, it's really hard to quantify - you might work a year more than someone who went straight through. You might work 5 years more. Just enjoy them and you really can't go wrong. Some would argue that my extra year cost me $200k, but I think it gave me increased maturity and perspective - which you can't really put a price on.

Lots of luck in whatever you decide.

 

[richse]

Of course you don't agree. What I said doesn't benefit you and isn't what you wanted to hear.

Did you not bother reading my reasoning, or did you just not have a counter argument?

 

[Blesbok]

Did you not bother reading my reasoning, or did you just not have a counter argument?

High level research before med school is good stuff. However, most people's research before med school is the typical undergrad crap that everyone does and doesn't mean diddly.

In any case, one publication is not worth holding off on med school. Do your research until school then finish off during the first summer.