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Deferred Suspension

thelight

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Apr 4, 2009
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  1. Pre-Medical
    I realized when visiting my Student conduct office that while applying, if/when schools requested, my school would supply them with my record. I found out that my record shows that I was involved in a physical altercation with a previous roommate in which the police were involved. I don't want to get into too much detail, but I was given the opportunity to redeem myself with good behavior. I have not gotten into any trouble since then, and so I was never suspended, however this remains on my record until I graduate, at which point it will be expunged. It was a bad decision on my part, even though I was physically threatened, I shouldn't have acted, and I was found responsible for "physical abuse and endangerment to others and themselves". The student conduct office said that they don't speak about the other party, however, they do provide a brief explanation of what I was charged with. I wanted to know, am I better off applying after the record is expunged, September 1st, or now with an explanation of what happened and how I have grown from it.

    I would really appreciate some input from any school administrators or medical students, ie LizzyM on what they think would better my opportunities for the application cycle. I do not want to make excuses for my actions, and I take responsibility for what I have done, although I believe I was right in taking self-defense. I do feel as though I've grown from my mistakes, and it has allowed me to reflect and remain calmer in these situations (I work as an EMT, and that helps).
     

    willen101383

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    Jul 22, 2004
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      I realized when visiting my Student conduct office that while applying, if/when schools requested, my school would supply them with my record. I found out that my record shows that I was involved in a physical altercation with a previous roommate in which the police were involved. I don't want to get into too much detail, but I was given the opportunity to redeem myself with good behavior. I have not gotten into any trouble since then, and so I was never suspended, however this remains on my record until I graduate, at which point it will be expunged. It was a bad decision on my part, even though I was physically threatened, I shouldn't have acted, and I was found responsible for "physical abuse and endangerment to others and themselves". The student conduct office said that they don't speak about the other party, however, they do provide a brief explanation of what I was charged with. I wanted to know, am I better off applying after the record is expunged, September 1st, or now with an explanation of what happened and how I have grown from it.

      I would really appreciate some input from any school administrators or medical students, ie LizzyM on what they think would better my opportunities for the application cycle. I do not want to make excuses for my actions, and I take responsibility for what I have done, although I believe I was right in taking self-defense. I do feel as though I've grown from my mistakes, and it has allowed me to reflect and remain calmer in these situations (I work as an EMT, and that helps).

      So you believe you acted in self defense....but believe you now act more calmly? Dude if you believe it was self defense and have the facts to back it up explain yourself...and how it was an unfortunate..but necessary way to protect yourself from harm. It will come up in interviews. Pick a position and stick to it. If it was self defense it was self defense. If you guys were just drunk fighting over some girl...own up to it and focus on how youve changed.
       

      Cypher321

      Board of Parks & Tourism
      Jan 7, 2010
      188
      1
      California - Land of Fruits and Nuts
      1. Pre-Medical
        If/when it comes up, you can put a positive spin on the situation saying how you've matured as a person by learning better conflict resolution, anger management, etc and now view the event as a life lesson.

        On another note...did you win?

        Also: From lurking on SDN for awhile, it seems the major red flags are DUIs, academic dishonesty, and snorting blow (feel free to add if I've missed some).
         
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        willen101383

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        Jul 22, 2004
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          If/when it comes up, you can put a positive spin on the situation saying how you've matured as a person by learning better conflict resolution, anger management, etc and now view the event as a life lesson.

          On another note...did you win?

          Also: From lurking on SDN for awhile, it seems the major red flags are DUIs, academic dishonesty, and snorting blow (feel free to add if I've missed some).

          The OP is claiming he acted in self defense...so I dont understand how claiming they have better anger management comes into play.....unless you didnt actually act in self defense OP.

          I guess it also matters how your college's judicial affairs office judged your actions. I served as a justice for out judicial affairs office for all 4 years of college and it usually ended up as a he said she said situation and both students ended up with sanctions.
           

          Cypher321

          Board of Parks & Tourism
          Jan 7, 2010
          188
          1
          California - Land of Fruits and Nuts
          1. Pre-Medical
            The OP is claiming he acted in self defense...so I dont understand how claiming they have better anger management comes into play.....unless you didnt actually act in self defense OP.

            I guess it also matters how your college's judicial affairs office judged your actions. I served as a justice for out judicial affairs office for all 4 years of college and it usually ended up as a he said she said situation and both students ended up with sanctions.

            I would say that it more depends on if the school says it's self defense, no?

            I think the OP can always look back and say maybe I should have done X instead of Y and now I have grown as a person by gaining this insightful knowledge. That's the point I'm trying to make.
             

            thelight

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            Apr 4, 2009
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            1. Pre-Medical
              Haha okay, so I'll delve in. I wasn't drunk, and he was. He thought I'd been stealing some of his stuff, and I told him I wasn't, but he wouldn't leave the issue alone. I was laying in my bed trying to fall asleep because I had an 8 AM lab, and he starts throwing my stuff around the room flipping a ****. He grabs my chair by my computer and chucks it across the room. I got fed up, so I got up and told him not to touch my stuff, and he pushed me. At this point, I had two options, move away, get out of the room, and leave my stuff at his mercy, or react. I chose to swing, and decked him in the face (technically I caught his ear, and it ballooned up the next day lol), and when the altercation finally split up, he wouldn't let up. So I called the RA into the room, told her the situation, and she tried to calm him down and took him to the RA office. I went to sleep and woke up to the cops knocking on the door and they filed a report for everything. He had apparently threatened in the RA's office that if he went upstairs to go to bed, that he was gonna punch me in the face. So that's that.

              If you want to know who won, I definitely did. I would've destroyed him, but after the first punch, I held back because I realized what I had done was a bad idea considering I lived with him. The situation got intense enough that they moved him out, and I didn't have to deal with him again.

              Yea, as a punitive and reflective experience, the student conduct office made me do a pamphlet on how to approach things without resorting to violence and deciding things more maturely. I will try to spin this positively because I consider myself a calm person, and I do things like meditate to keep me composed. I believe I use reflection as part of a larger part of who I am and who I want to become, because I always believed that I could never learn anything without experiencing it myself, and once I experience it, I try to use it to my advantage.
               

              willen101383

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                Haha okay, so I'll delve in. I wasn't drunk, and he was. He thought I'd been stealing some of his stuff, and I told him I wasn't, but he wouldn't leave the issue alone. I was laying in my bed trying to fall asleep because I had an 8 AM lab, and he starts throwing my stuff around the room flipping a ****. He grabs my chair by my computer and chucks it across the room. I got fed up, so I got up and told him not to touch my stuff, and he pushed me. At this point, I had two options, move away, get out of the room, and leave my stuff at his mercy, or react. I chose to swing, and decked him in the face (technically I caught his ear, and it ballooned up the next day lol), and when the altercation finally split up, he wouldn't let up. So I called the RA into the room, told her the situation, and she tried to calm him down and took him to the RA office. I went to sleep and woke up to the cops knocking on the door and they filed a report for everything. He had apparently threatened in the RA's office that if he went upstairs to go to bed, that he was gonna punch me in the face. So that's that.

                If you want to know who won, I definitely did. I would've destroyed him, but after the first punch, I held back because I realized what I had done was a bad idea considering I lived with him. The situation got intense enough that they moved him out, and I didn't have to deal with him again.

                Yea, as a punitive and reflective experience, the student conduct office made me do a pamphlet on how to approach things without resorting to violence and deciding things more maturely. I will try to spin this positively because I consider myself a calm person, and I do things like meditate to keep me composed. I believe I use reflection as part of a larger part of who I am and who I want to become, because I always believed that I could never learn anything without experiencing it myself, and once I experience it, I try to use it to my advantage.

                Tell that to the adcoms. If you were cornered in the room without a way out and you physically felt that you were about to suffer severe injury unless you acted you should be proud of your actions. It certainly helps you were sober and he was drunk. It also certainly helps that he said he was going to punch you in the face. If I was hearing this case that the facts were as your stated I wouldnt be finding you in violation.
                 

                chasincam

                Full Member
                Jan 1, 2010
                45
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                Nashville
                1. Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
                  Dude, that sucks. Sorry you had to deal with that situation. Not easy to walk away from stuff like that.

                  So, are you asking whether you should mark "yes" on the primary regarding "sanctions" and whatnot by your school?

                  Even if it is expunged, you should say yes, which means september 1 or not, you still have to fess up whether or not you want to. I mean, even if you get accepted and the med school you get accepted to does not see it on your record, can't they always ask if there was anything expunged? I am not sure about this, but I imagine it wouldn't look too good if they found out something was expenged. At that point, you're toast and have no way to explain anything. Also, if they find out about it while you're in med school, you're in debt 200k with a mark on your record and even if you did graduate, I imagine your Dean's Letter will not be the highlight of your match. Good luck with residency then.

                  So, expunged or not I would fess up. Because if they ever found out it was expunged, you'd be screwed.
                   

                  thelight

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                  Apr 4, 2009
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                  1. Pre-Medical
                    I guess your right chasincam. The situation is, even if I felt I was right, the board of the Student Conduct that heard the case found me guilty of the charges, and therefore the schools would be a little concerned in believing my side of the story. When I first realized that I would have to deal with the case, I wasn't really concerned because I thought I acted in self defense and didn't see what I did as being wrong. However, from the group of 5 members, the board members thought that my actions violated school policy and therefore placed me on deferred suspension.

                    The positive side is that I haven't gotten in trouble since then, and academically, I've actually excelled even better then previously. I guess I'll go ahead and deal with this situation as it comes. Thanks for the help, if anyone has any other advice, please let me know.
                     

                    willen101383

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                      Dude, that sucks. Sorry you had to deal with that situation. Not easy to walk away from stuff like that.

                      So, are you asking whether you should mark "yes" on the primary regarding "sanctions" and whatnot by your school?

                      Even if it is expunged, you should say yes, which means september 1 or not, you still have to fess up whether or not you want to. I mean, even if you get accepted and the med school you get accepted to does not see it on your record, can't they always ask if there was anything expunged? I am not sure about this, but I imagine it wouldn't look too good if they found out something was expenged. At that point, you're toast and have no way to explain anything. Also, if they find out about it while you're in med school, you're in debt 200k with a mark on your record and even if you did graduate, I imagine your Dean's Letter will not be the highlight of your match. Good luck with residency then.

                      So, expunged or not I would fess up. Because if they ever found out it was expunged, you'd be screwed.

                      Absolutely right. Definitely fess up. Its an unfortunate situation but I think you did the right thing in the situation. It would be a different story if you were out in the open @ a frat party drunk...but being that you were essentially cornered in a dormroom while sober by an irate roomate it is 100 percent self defense in my opinion.

                      Maybe I have a little too much self respect...but I wouldnt be apologizing to anyone in that situation or trying to claim I was reformed. You did what you had to do in the situation. You hit once and GTFO.
                       

                      LuciusVorenus

                      Bad Medicine
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                      Apr 14, 2009
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                      1. Medical Student
                        Haha okay, so I'll delve in. I wasn't drunk, and he was. He thought I'd been stealing some of his stuff, and I told him I wasn't, but he wouldn't leave the issue alone. I was laying in my bed trying to fall asleep because I had an 8 AM lab, and he starts throwing my stuff around the room flipping a ****. He grabs my chair by my computer and chucks it across the room. I got fed up, so I got up and told him not to touch my stuff, and he pushed me. At this point, I had two options, move away, get out of the room, and leave my stuff at his mercy, or react. I chose to swing, and decked him in the face (technically I caught his ear, and it ballooned up the next day lol), and when the altercation finally split up, he wouldn't let up. So I called the RA into the room, told her the situation, and she tried to calm him down and took him to the RA office. I went to sleep and woke up to the cops knocking on the door and they filed a report for everything. He had apparently threatened in the RA's office that if he went upstairs to go to bed, that he was gonna punch me in the face. So that's that.

                        If you want to know who won, I definitely did. I would've destroyed him, but after the first punch, I held back because I realized what I had done was a bad idea considering I lived with him. The situation got intense enough that they moved him out, and I didn't have to deal with him again.

                        Yea, as a punitive and reflective experience, the student conduct office made me do a pamphlet on how to approach things without resorting to violence and deciding things more maturely. I will try to spin this positively because I consider myself a calm person, and I do things like meditate to keep me composed. I believe I use reflection as part of a larger part of who I am and who I want to become, because I always believed that I could never learn anything without experiencing it myself, and once I experience it, I try to use it to my advantage.

                        I don't think this will keep you out of interviews or anything. It was obviously self defense. Why didn't you pursue it as such at the time (just curious)? Anyways, I'd fess up just so you can get the chance to explain everything (because from the description of the violation THEY wrote down it sounds like you got drunk and beat on a homeless man) before they "happen" upon it during your background check and then decide to pull your acceptance without your (the real) version of events.
                         

                        TooMuchResearch

                        i'm goin' to Kathmandu...
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                        1. Attending Physician
                          OP, if this will be removed from your academic record one you graduate, then consider delaying your application until after you've graduated. Since you say the record will be expunged, I wonder if you were actually convicted of a crime or if it's strictly a university thing. If it's just a university thing, and they will remove it from your record after graduation, wait to apply until you are sure it has been removed. If it is on your criminal record, see if there is a way to have it expunged.
                           

                          chasincam

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                          Jan 1, 2010
                          45
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                          Nashville
                          1. Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
                            OP, if this will be removed from your academic record one you graduate, then consider delaying your application until after you've graduated. Since you say the record will be expunged, I wonder if you were actually convicted of a crime or if it's strictly a university thing. If it's just a university thing, and they will remove it from your record after graduation, wait to apply until you are sure it has been removed. If it is on your criminal record, see if there is a way to have it expunged.

                            But the question on AMCAS doesn't say if it was expunged, don't reveal it to us. It says to tell everything, whether or not its on your record. Besides, even if it is expunged, how do you know that there aren't any marks saying that something was expunged? Its best to be honest up front, that way you never run into the issue agin years from now. Besides, this is really not a big deal. So there was a fight. Who cares? It's not like he was arrested or worse. Honestly its a chance to show his maturity and how he's grown. How many people haven't been in a fight anyway? I imagine a good amount of med students have and they are no worse for it IMO.
                             

                            thelight

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                            Apr 4, 2009
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                              This actually didn't violate any actual laws, I was just reprimanded by the university. I did pursue the set of events as self-defense, but unfortunately, the board saw otherwise (this was a board of about 5 students, grad and undergrad). I don't understand why I got in trouble, but I guess all I could really do was deal with what was handed to me, considering it didn't hinder my progress. I am going to speak with my premed advisor about the situation tomorrow and see what she says.

                              On any note, my old roommate no longer attends this university and was suspended for numerous violations, so I can attest to the fact that he's out of his mind :laugh:
                               
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