deferring

Veterinary Science Graduate Programs from U. of I.
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Caninerepro said:
growing up is a big thing, a good thing and something it sounds like the OP has not done yet.
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You don't know anything about my life, besides the fact that I asked about what official policies were on deferring, and said I had interest in applying for a fellowship or pursuing a significant volunteer opportunity abroad.

I don't even get what the point of your comment was. You were in the NHL and did the Iditarod and now are in vet school...congrats. What constitutes "growing up" for you, in this internet forum? Do you want me to tell you my life story so you can compare and then hold yourself as a more accomplished and interesting person?

And are you somehow implying that getting an MBA is "real world practical experience" while volunteering abroad is not? Or is it that you were just balking at volunteering not being worthwhile enough for deferment?

Really, I was not asking about anyone's personal opinions (or life stories), I was just asking for official policy.
 
Caninerepro said:
Wow, OK and yes I am known for my no BS say it like it is style. 😀 That said, I did what I preached. I was accepted to CSU out of HS based on my prior record. Then I declined to follow through with that great (and probably wiser) opportunity. So, I had to start again from scratch. But, in the mean time, I had run the Iditarod, actually LIVED in the dog world for several years, gotten an MBA (read real world practical experience), played in the NHL and in a nutshell LIVED a life. When I reapplied, while a grad student at CSU, I did not even receive so much as a wait list there. I knew the chances of what I did, but I was at the time simply not ready mentally to do vet school. Nonetheless, I do not begrudge my life. I know it sounds trite, but growing up is a big thing, a good thing and something it sounds like the OP has not done yet. Sorry for being the bad guy who always says what others are thinking. 😳
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hold up, you were in the nhl? what team?!
 
twelvetigers said:
Okay, we're gonna lay this one out once and for all, because I am hella curious about this girl.

Here's what's up:


  • She grew up in southern CA but did her undergrad in western PA.
  • She majored in molecular biology, grad May 2008.
  • She did some pre-reqs at a community college but did the majority of her coursework at a competitive (religious) liberal arts school.
  • She spent at least a year on a missionary trip in Baja, Mexico, teaching deaf first graders.
  • Therefore, she knows both English and Spanish sign language.
  • She's done a lot of work with guide and service dogs (raised for Guide Dogs of America), hence her screen name, and would like to pursue that with her DVM.
  • She has a golden retriever named Misty.
  • Her last name starts with a B.
  • She can solve a rubix cube in under 2 minutes.
  • Not married, no kids (but hopes someday).
  • Her sign name is an 'a' shape beneath her eye.
  • She probably has an HP tablet, as she really loves them.
  • She was homeschooled.
  • Parents owned a medical practice.
  • Two siblings, one a sister (a 'fashionista' no less).
  • Not vegetarian but doesn't like meat much.
  • She loves to make lists.
  • She wants to visit Israel.
  • Finished highschool before she turned 16, worked at a SA clinic for a year, did her undergrad in 3 years, and was in Mexico for a year. So she's ~22.
/stalker, this is all from old posts. Now, find her! And tell her I said, "Pbbbbt!" for her leaving and making us all wonder.
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this is SO sweet :bow: and i should have gotten over my complete in-aweness of you by now...but, heck you had me at 'okay' 😍

So, here's what to do.....walk up to every 1st year at Penn and sign in Spanish, 'Are you an SDNer'?
 
She said in a thread (when questioning if the interviews were being done alphabetically, perhaps) that her last name starts with a B so she didn't think that's how they were sorting them.

Argh!
 
.
 
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i see no creepiness about it whatsoever....just a little CSI action going on.
 
90% of the info was from a quiz that raimes posted, so... Answering online quizzes kinda provides some information. I'll delete the info in my post to lower the creep factor. However, I have the best of intentions and am genuinely concerned - and, like I said, it's things she posted herself. Someone try it on me, I bet you'd get a lot of info. But i put it there myself.
 
oman, its def not creepy. I could go onto anyones profile now... look through their posts and collect all of that info in a second. its not like twelvetigers spent the whole year stalking and collecting the data lol
 
It is not creepy. Twelvetigers just found the info because she is genuinely concerned and wants to know how the person is doing not because she wants to be a stalker.
 
.
 
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Danae00 said:
Fair enough! I probably was just over-reacting then. I had a close friend who had a lot of trouble with an online stalker (that started to become an offline stalker issue) so I'm probably just overly hyper-sensitive to the whole thing.
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rest assured, twelvetigers is definitely not the stalker type
 
Yes, but we all know how pre-vet types are overachievers. 😀

ETA: Holy cow, I have almost 400 posts!?! No wonder my cat looks at me like I spend all of my time on the computer.
 
eventualeventer said:
Yes, but we all know how pre-vet types are overachievers. 😀

ETA: Holy cow, I have almost 400 posts!?! No wonder my cat looks at me like I spend all of my time on the computer.
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but you joined in march of 2007???

I have almost 500 in 6 months, no wonder i'm gonna fail biochem!!
 
rileyroo said:
but you joined in march of 2007???

I have almost 500 in 6 months, no wonder i'm gonna fail biochem!!
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Well, I only started posting regularly this spring. It's true, though, you are posting faster than I. You have a long way to go to catch up with twelvetigers, though! OT, but I've always wanted to use this guy --> +pad+
 
canis13 said:
You don't know anything about my life, besides the fact that I asked about what official policies were on deferring, and said I had interest in applying for a fellowship or pursuing a significant volunteer opportunity abroad...... Do you want me to tell you my life story so you can compare and then hold yourself as a more accomplished and interesting person?
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Ahhh....don't bother with troubling yourself over it; I am on his poorly percieved list as well.

As noted before, you can probably get a deferral for a fellowship or other unique opportunity at most schools. However, a general volunteering program is less likely. No one can really tell you the official policies because even where there are official policies, they generally include some statement about each case being considering on an individual basis.

So...if it is something you can easily do after your DVM (such as strictly traveling/volunteering) you may want to wait. If it is a program/opportunity that won't be available later, discuss it with admin if you are accepted to both programs (dvm and volunteer.) IE if you are able to volunteer with a unique program that would improve your ability as a vet and that rarely accepts volunteers....it is a gray area that could only be determined via discussion with the school. As for applying, if you want to apply, do so. If it is critical to travel next year regardless of a deferment, you might want to delay your application. I know for me, I took my Watson despite losing my place in med school. Thank goodness!
 
Thanks for the feedback sumstorm. I missed the deadline for the Watson, and didn't realize until too late that you can only apply during your senior year (I'm a senior). I know that I definitely need to spend next year finishing up pre-reqs (physics, biochem, and genetics), and want to get those done, so I think it wouldn't've worked out anyway.
But I'm having a really hard time deciding whether I want to apply to vet school next fall, or wait an additional year. On one hand, I am so incredibly excited about going to vet school, and I know that there will be opportunities for me to go abroad while I'm in vet school (mostly during summers, I think).
But on the other hand, I feel like my "year off" won't really be enough of a break if I'm still taking pre-reqs.

I know I have time to decide, but like, if I know that I won't be applying until fall of 2011, then I won't kill myself to spend as much time getting vet experience now while I'm writing a thesis.

Anyway, I think you have a good idea of applying both to vet school and to different volunteer programs/fellowships, and then figuring out my options from there, depending on where I get accepted. Although I do need to get a better sense of what I specifically want to do with an additional year off, fellowship/volunteer wise, and also compare that to opportunities I could have while actually in vet school.

I do know that if I apply to vet school next fall, it won't be with the goal of deferring, nor would I be depending on that as an option.
 
Huh, well I guess that clears that up. Better she realized it now than $200,000 later.
 
wow, interesting. thanks for the update!
 
I'm pretty late, but here's another vote for twelvetigers not being creepy (actually I was pretty impressed). If you put it all out there, you have to assume that someone may at some point put it all together. She was just being resourceful! But yeah, probably good to keep the identifying details to a minimum if you're concerned.
 
Now that we've solved the mystery, I plan to delete the information from the post. Those that quoted me will have to do the same for it to go away. And, I'll do it later... I have a final at 8pm tonight. Who scheduled that? Yech.

P.S. Thanks for the 'not a creeper' comments, lol. I appreciate the confidence in my un-creepyness.
 
canis13 said:
Thanks for the feedback sumstorm. I missed the deadline for the Watson, and didn't realize until too late that you can only apply during your senior year (I'm a senior). I know that I definitely need to spend next year finishing up pre-reqs (physics, biochem, and genetics), and want to get those done, so I think it wouldn't've worked out anyway.
But I'm having a really hard time deciding whether I want to apply to vet school next fall, or wait an additional year. On one hand, I am so incredibly excited about going to vet school, and I know that there will be opportunities for me to go abroad while I'm in vet school (mostly during summers, I think).
But on the other hand, I feel like my "year off" won't really be enough of a break if I'm still taking pre-reqs.

I know I have time to decide, but like, if I know that I won't be applying until fall of 2011, then I won't kill myself to spend as much time getting vet experience now while I'm writing a thesis.

Anyway, I think you have a good idea of applying both to vet school and to different volunteer programs/fellowships, and then figuring out my options from there, depending on where I get accepted. Although I do need to get a better sense of what I specifically want to do with an additional year off, fellowship/volunteer wise, and also compare that to opportunities I could have while actually in vet school.

I do know that if I apply to vet school next fall, it won't be with the goal of deferring, nor would I be depending on that as an option.
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I'm not applying until Fall 2011, because I've got 2 years of pre-reqs to take. (Hello, English and Spanish double-major!) I am a little sad that I have to wait so long to go to vet school, but when I think about it, I'm going to spend those 2 years doing things I love doing-- working at my shelter, taking classes, shadowing vets. I think, if you really want to travel and go abroad, you should wait to apply. It's hard not to jump right in, but as college graduates we really don't have to go straight into professional school-- even though it feels like everyone in my graduating class has their life plan all sorted out. We've got lots of time.

Though what I think I might do is apply to Glasgow/Edinburgh in Fall 2010. They need less pre-requisites so I will be qualified to apply then. My GPA isn't hot enough to get accepted, but I think it will give me the experience applying, and if I magically get in, then I'll just ship off overseas! Would going to vet school abroad satisfy your travel bug?
 
marycatherine said:
Would going to vet school abroad satisfy your travel bug?
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Thanks for your thoughts.
I don't really want to go to vet school abroad, because I am hesitant to be in the same class as 18 year olds who have just finished high school. The idea of working my ass off for 4 years, and then being a 23 or 24 year old in class with 18 year olds really bugs me.
Also, getting loans is a more complicated story (I think), and finally, if I have the ability to get into a US vet school, it doesn't make sense for me to apply to schools abroad. This is all just my personal feelings and thoughts...I realize that other people have different feelings and are more than ready to apply to schools abroad.
That said, I am considering applying to AVC at UPEI and Ontario Vet College (Univ. of Guelph), because they require everyone to have a bachelor's degree first.
 
AVC doesn't require a bachelors degree first? Unless thats a new requirement this year.

Age wise they are still fairly similar to a US schools and definitely a place worth applying to.(I did).
 
canis13 said:
Thanks for your thoughts.
I don't really want to go to vet school abroad, because I am hesitant to be in the same class as 18 year olds who have just finished high school. The idea of working my ass off for 4 years, and then being a 23 or 24 year old in class with 18 year olds really bugs me.
Also, getting loans is a more complicated story (I think), and finally, if I have the ability to get into a US vet school, it doesn't make sense for me to apply to schools abroad. This is all just my personal feelings and thoughts...I realize that other people have different feelings and are more than ready to apply to schools abroad.
That said, I am considering applying to AVC at UPEI and Ontario Vet College (Univ. of Guelph), because they require everyone to have a bachelor's degree first.
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I can understand that. While I will enjoy the fun-making-friends aspect of vet school, a lot of it will be more of a personal thing for me (since I'll be doing my own work and trying to do as well as possible), so I'm not too worried about my classmates. And I'm sure there will be other people from the US over there, so I'll make at least a couple friends. :laugh:

I've heard you can still do the same (or at least similar) loans, though? I've read on here of people funding the whole thing on US loans. Take what I say with a grain of salt because I'm only going on what I remember from reading on posts here.

I can understand wanting to stay here if you could get in, though. I'm not sure how competitive I will be, as I haven't finished many of my pre-reqs yet, so where I go will definitely depend on how much I can raise my GPA.
 
david594 said:
AVC doesn't require a bachelors degree first? Unless thats a new requirement this year.

Age wise they are still fairly similar to a US schools and definitely a place worth applying to.(I did).
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Well, I guess you're right, and I guess technically you don't need a bachelors to enter US vet schools. But I think it's maybe safe to say that a majority of AVC students have a bachelors degree, given the number of pre-reqs (which are similar to US schools). The bachelors distinction isn't as important as the age thing. And yeah, I think AVC would be an awesome place to go.

I just can't wrap my mind around how British students who have only finished high school are adequately prepared to enter a vet program that is supposedly equivalent to US vet schools. I'm fairly confident I would fail out of Penn if I went right after high school, as would most people who only had a high school education.
[and sorry, David, this rant isn't directed at you in particular, I'm just wondering out loud.]
 
canis13 said:
Well, I guess you're right, and I guess technically you don't need a bachelors to enter US vet schools. But I think it's maybe safe to say that a majority of AVC students have a bachelors degree, given the number of pre-reqs (which are similar to US schools). The bachelors distinction isn't as important as the age thing. And yeah, I think AVC would be an awesome place to go.

I just can't wrap my mind around how British students who have only finished high school are adequately prepared to enter a vet program that is supposedly equivalent to US vet schools. I'm fairly confident I would fail out of Penn if I went right after high school, as would most people who only had a high school education.
[and sorry, David, this rant isn't directed at you in particular, I'm just wondering out loud.]
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that high school is more rigorous in Europe than it is here in America. Students start working towards their career goals at a much earlier age than we do here in the states. I took a summer class with a student from Switzerland, and she was studying to be a lawyer at the age of 19. She was extremely mature and intelligent for her age. I understand that going abroad may not be for everyone, but the universities in Europe are AVMA accredited for a reason. Also, some of the vet schools abroad have a "fast track" for students with Bachelor's degrees (Edinburgh for example). So, I wouldn't rule out going abroad just because you don't entirely understand their system. My friend is at Glasgow right now, has made many new friends from the UK, and absolutely loves it!
 
The US and UK school systems are completely different. UK students have two years of additional schooling, after what we would consider high school, before they can take their A level examinations and be accepted to vet school. Their vet school is then 5 years, not 4.

This website is a good place to start if you want to learn more about the UK educational system. http://www.britishcouncil.org/usa-education-uk-system-k-12-education.htm

I also think you should be careful in saying that the UK schools are "supposedly equivalent to US vet schools". I have no doubt that graduates from London, Glasgow, etc., are perfectly competent veterinarians and their schools, and professors, have excellent international reputations.
 
mtambaschi said:
UK students have two years of additional schooling, after what we would consider high school, before they can take their A level examinations and be accepted to vet school.
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I'm actually somewhat familiar with european and UK schooling systems; I spent a semester in the Netherlands, and I have a close friend who goes to uni in the UK. From what I recall, in the UK secondary school ends at age 16, and then those two years of additional school (which is referred to as "college") ends at 18, at which point they take their A levels. And again, they enter university at age 18, same as in the US.

zeebra44 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that high school is more rigorous in Europe than it is here in America. Students start working towards their career goals at a much earlier age than we do here in the states.
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You're right in that students start working towards career goals at much younger ages; it is generally around age 16 that dutch students pick which field they want to pursue (speaking from my own personal knowledge), and age 18 when they enter veterinary school. But I'm not so sure that having a career direction earlier on necessarily means that it is more rigorous than US high schools...

mtambaschi said:
I also think you should be careful in saying that the UK schools are "supposedly equivalent to US vet schools". I have no doubt that graduates from London, Glasgow, etc., are perfectly competent veterinarians and their schools, and professors, have excellent international reputations.
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Sorry to pose harsh judgment, I think you're right. I wasn't trying to directly imply that UK/european vets were less competent.
I guess I'm mostly just trying to make sense in my head of the differences in education. Taking into consideration UK vet school is 5 years instead of 4, US educated veterinarians still spend 3 more years in school, total, than UK/european vets.
So are those 3 years just a giant waste of time for US students? Are US high schools and undergraduate universities so much less rigorous that we need another 3 years to make up for it?

I guess those are mostly rhetorical questions. Anyway, I'm not trying to knock the UK/australian/european veterinarians. Maybe we in the United States are just unluckily subjected to an additional and perhaps unnecessary 3 years of higher education in order to be veterinarians.

Either way, while this may make me insecure and superficial, I still don't like the idea of sitting next to a bunch of 18 year olds in my first year of vet school. If the students there were the same ages as in the US, I would apply to UK and australian vet schools in a heart beat.
 
canis13 said:
Sorry to pose harsh judgment, I think you're right. I wasn't trying to directly imply that UK/european vets were less competent. I guess I'm mostly just trying to make sense in my head of the differences in education. Taking into consideration UK vet school is 5 years instead of 4, US educated veterinarians still spend 3 more years in school, total, than UK/european vets. So are those 3 years just a giant waste of time for US students? Are US high schools and undergraduate universities so much less rigorous that we need another 3 years to make up for it?

I guess those are mostly rhetorical questions. Anyway, I'm not trying to knock the UK/australian/european veterinarians. Maybe we in the United States are just unluckily subjected to an additional and perhaps unnecessary 3 years of higher education in order to be veterinarians.

Either way, while this may make me insecure and superficial, I still don't like the idea of sitting next to a bunch of 18 year olds in my first year of vet school. If the students there were the same ages as in the US, I would apply to UK and australian vet schools in a heart beat.
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I mean, if I were to go abroad, I'd be taking an extra year of school than the typical United-States-student, as I've got a 4 year bachelor's degree and would then enter a 5 year veterinary program-- seeing as I have a BA in English and Spanish. Is that going to make me even more qualified, since I could have 9 years of schooling? I don't really think so.

There is no way I would have been ready to jump into vet school after high school, but I think I couldn't because that's the way our system is set up. I needed to go to undergrad to learn how to study for a rigorous curriculum and get some experience before I could buckle down and go to professional school. In Europe, they are set up to go to professional school earlier than we are. They take more advanced curricula at earlier ages so that they can start vet school at 18. I know some of my high school degree was absolutely pointless, and yeah I wish I could have just taken out two or three years of high school and gone straight to college, but that's not how the US does it. I went to a great high school, graduated with a 4.2 and got loads of AP credit, but it was definitely pretty redundant and unimportant in the scheme of things.

But hey, if you don't apply, the chances are better for me. :laugh:
 
canis13 said:
Thanks for your thoughts.
I don't really want to go to vet school abroad, because I am hesitant to be in the same class as 18 year olds who have just finished high school. The idea of working my ass off for 4 years, and then being a 23 or 24 year old in class with 18 year olds really bugs me.
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Hmmm...I hope I don't have to go to school with any foolish 20-somethings that haven't completed a career, professionally managed people, and operated businesses. I would hate to have worked my ass off for a decade in the real world to be stuck with youngsters whose idea of work is part time and breaks, if that.

I am sorry, but I hope everyone here realizes the my above statement is absurd and that I don't believe actually believe that. I hope the OP realizes that my statement is an accurate reflection of theirs. Here in the US I completed my last two years of HS at a university. I could have taken a joint BA/MD program, spending two years in undergrad and 4 in med school. That isn't much different than a 5 yr program for med school, which isn't terribly different than vet school. In reality, the pre-reqs for many schools can be completed in 2 years if there are no other requirements (pursuit of a degree.)

While I do not assume that 18 yo in the UK or elsewhere are more mature, I do realize that many programs in other countries start funneling students towards career paths earlier than we do in the states. I am not argueing whether that is better or worse, just that it is different.
 
sumstorm said:
Hmmm...I hope I don't have to go to school with any foolish 20-somethings that haven't completed a career, professionally managed people, and operated businesses. I would hate to have worked my ass off for a decade in the real world to be stuck with youngsters whose idea of work is part time and breaks, if that.

I am sorry, but I hope everyone here realizes the my above statement is absurd and that I don't believe actually believe that. I hope the OP realizes that my statement is an accurate reflection of theirs. Here in the US I completed my last two years of HS at a university. I could have taken a joint BA/MD program, spending two years in undergrad and 4 in med school. That isn't much different than a 5 yr program for med school, which isn't terribly different than vet school. In reality, the pre-reqs for many schools can be completed in 2 years if there are no other requirements (pursuit of a degree.)

While I do not assume that 18 yo in the UK or elsewhere are more mature, I do realize that many programs in other countries start funneling students towards career paths earlier than we do in the states. I am not argueing whether that is better or worse, just that it is different.
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Well, I think there's something to be said that those who take time off and work in the real world before applying to vet school often do better in vet school (this is just what I've heard from veterinarians I've talked to...). But yeah, I see what you're getting at, and that makes sense.

I guess my thoughts are mostly coming from my own experience as an 18 year old freshman in undergrad - I was not very good at studying, I goofed off a lot, and had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. Now I'm a serious student with goals and good time management skills. I guess I just am indoctrinated with the theory of US higher education for vet med, which is that you go to undergrad for 4 years to basically learn how to be a good student (and get a decent background in science), before you start learning stuff that directly relates to your career as a veterinarian. It just seems like the gap between 18 and 22 is much bigger than the gap between 22 and 25+ (25+ meaning someone who started vet school after taking time off) in terms of maturity.

Anyway, sorry to take this thread on a random tangent. I think you guys are all right, that I should just see the UK system as different rather than try to place a value judgment on it. Anyway, it's not something I'm going to lose sleep over.
 
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