Dental Hygiene school question (vaccination)

[hopefulhygienist]

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http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00056803.htm#00003753.htm

Do you argue the efficacy of mandated vaccinations? If so, I would advise you to do a little research in public health. At this point you're just grasping at straws. No one will tell you what you can't eat/drink, as ktran17 said it isn't practical. But, if there is a method to efficiently drastically reduce disease, then it will be implemented. You are correct that 48/50 states do, in some way, implement their right to provide exemptions for religious reasons to these mandatory vaccinations, but will a school whose goal it is to educate and produce professionals into the healthcare industry do the same? I sure hope not. By all means, practice your religion how you see fit, but when it comes to healthcare, there's no place for endangerment of your patients due to not following a simple way to help prevent disease.

I'm actually very good friends with several doctors, which might surprise you. A well versed doctor who actually studies the medical literature will tell you that virtually everything a doctor does for treatment puts the patient in danger.......... don't believe me? Read the paper published in the Journal of American medicine by Barbara Starfield MD. She was the head of pediatrics at Johns Hopkins University. She published a paper going into the number of deaths per year directly caused by treatments administered by Medical Doctors. At the end she showed at the time MD directed treatments were the 3rd leading cause of death in the country........ so much for "protecting patients". Ironically Barbara Starfield was found a couple years ago floating dead in her pool because the prescription plavix she was prescribed caused a cerebral hemmorage......... She was one of the 106,000 deaths a year due to correctly prescribed medications, taken in the correct dosage that cause death to the patient.......... If healthcare wants to really "protect the patient" maybe it should fix the fact that it's the leading cause of death in the country, and was the 3rd leading cause in Starfields Time..........

http://www.jhsph.edu/research/cente...care-policy-center/Publications_PDFs/A154.pdf

 

[ktran17]

The reason why doctor treatments are linked and correlated with high deaths is because they see sick patients.

Correlations does not equal causation.

 

[hopefulhygienist]

They cannot mandate patients to get vaccinated because the clinic or hospital holds no authority over the patients... Plus, if you required all your patients to get vaccinated it would not be cost effective. Health-care practitioners already have a difficult time convincing stubborn patients to come in for preventive check ups. You cannot expect the same standards to be upheld for both the staff members and people outside of the clinic.

Like I said, in a perfect world, you would want everything sterile and everyone as healthy as possible. That is not reality and the suggestions you offer are not enforceable. It is unrealistic.

Every organization, be it a business, school, etc has standards. Expecting those same standards to be applied to the rest of society is ludicrous. You're basically saying, well if I have to do this, why doesn't everyone else? Because everyone else is not working for a health care organization..

No one is forcing you to attend a health professional school nor would an employer force you to work at a particular business. You have the freedom and the choice to do something else. Do not expect an entire organization to change the rules just because you feel their policies are wrong. If a break out occurred, would you be ok if you were held liable?

It wouldn't be cost effective? Maybe if the hospital covered the charge. So you're saying even if it would be better for the patient it wouldn't be done because it's not cost effective? I'd be curious how a healthcare worker could be held liable, and not the other 10,000 sick patients in the hospital. When someone gets an infection from the hospital I don't know how they would know how they got it. I think we agreed the highest risk of getting sick is from other patients and that it cannot be reasonably controlled, so its almost futile to make the healthcare workers get vaccinated, especially if they don't want to

 

[ModifiedBass]

Firstly, what does it matter that you're friends with several doctors? Doesn't add anything to your argument. Secondly, when did we start debating medical treatment as a whole, I thought this argument was over the mandate of vaccinations? Never once said the US had the best healthcare in the world, as a matter of fact I know off the top of my head we're ranked somewhere around 37th globally. Does that mean we should eliminate healthcare all together? I don't see where you're going with this. Yes, there will always be a risk to any drug/treatment, but when the benefits for the nation greatly outweigh the potential risks for a few, I'll side with medicine any day. So, if you're this worked up about how much healthcare is destroying this nation, why in the world are you considering a career in healthcare?

 

[ktran17]

Yes, it would not be cost effective to give every single patient that walks into the hospital all mandated vaccines.

The business will be held liable because they did not properly follow health codes..

 

[hopefulhygienist]

The reason why doctor treatments are linked and correlated with high deaths is because they see sick patients.

Correlations does not equal causation.

Maybe you didnt read the paper, which you couldn't have in that short amount of time. These are not "associated and assumed deaths" These are confirmed deaths where it is known what caused the deaths. Just in the same way the medical examiner found that plavix caused Barbara starfields death. Understand what I'm saying? These are deaths that are found by the medical examiners and are KNOWN to be the cause of death. Its biochemically known what every drug can do as far as side effects. It's not like these people just die and because they took plavix they just assume, we have medical examiners you know...........

 

[ktran17]

Lol..

The treatment might have been a direct cause of the death. However, the reason why the numbers appears and looks like doctor treatment = more deaths is because doctors and thus the profession are exposed to sick patients all the time. This increases the chances of deaths occurring around them.

By your logic, fire fighters always happens to be near brush fires and thus fire fighting = more burned fields..

Or another one, surgical treatments are linked to the most deaths caused by any medical specialty. Why not eliminate the practice of surgery all together.

Also, did the paper talk about all the lives these same treatments saved? Should we just look at the amount of deaths or should we look at a net number instead?

By any chance, have you taken a philosophical logic class? If not, I suggest you do.

 

[hopefulhygienist]

Firstly, what does it matter that you're friends with several doctors? Doesn't add anything to your argument. Secondly, when did we start debating medical treatment as a whole, I thought this argument was over the mandate of vaccinations? Never once said the US had the best healthcare in the world, as a matter of fact I know off the top of my head we're ranked somewhere around 37th globally. Does that mean we should eliminate healthcare all together? I don't see where you're going with this. Yes, there will always be a risk to any drug/treatment, but when the benefits for the nation greatly outweigh the potential risks for a few, I'll side with medicine any day. So, if you're this worked up about how much healthcare is destroying this nation, why in the world are you considering a career in healthcare?

Potential risks for a few? It's the leading cause of death in the country, it literally kills more people than the diseases themselves...... Notice I never said anything about dentistry, and last I checked dentists don't prescribe drugs........ and to my knowledge there are not hundreds of thousands dying becuase of dentists. This is why I'd prefer to do dental hygiene over nursing or something similiar. You're more than entitled to side with medicine, I'd rather know basic biochemistry and live by the common sense fact that no one has a disease or illness because they have a drug deficiency........ Get a PHD in biochemistry and see if you see one page about biochemical function in the body that has anything to do with a synthetic chemical..............

 

[hopefulhygienist]

Lol..

The treatment might have been a direct cause of the death. However, the reason why the numbers appears and looks like doctor treatment = more deaths is because doctors and thus the profession are exposed to sick patients all the time. This increases the chances of deaths occurring around them.

By your logic, fire fighters always happens to be near brush fires and thus fire fighting = more burned fields..

Or another one, surgical treatments are linked to the most deaths caused by any medical specialty. Why not eliminate the practice of surgery all together.

Also, did the paper talk about all the lives these same treatments saved? Should we just look at the amount of deaths or should we look at a net number instead?

By any chance, have you taken a philosophical logic class? If not, I suggest you do.

How can something that is supposed to improve one's health be the cause of their death? That should be the first red flag. Obviously something is wrong with that picture. Maybe it's the fact that synthetic chemicals aka drugs have nothing to do with proper biochemical function within the body? Last I checked no one has a disease because they have a deficiency in a drug or surgery, maybe that's why they are dropping people like flies..........

 

[hopefulhygienist]

Lol..

The treatment might have been a direct cause of the death. However, the reason why the numbers appears and looks like doctor treatment = more deaths is because doctors and thus the profession are exposed to sick patients all the time. This increases the chances of deaths occurring around them.

By your logic, fire fighters always happens to be near brush fires and thus fire fighting = more burned fields..

Or another one, surgical treatments are linked to the most deaths caused by any medical specialty. Why not eliminate the practice of surgery all together.

Also, did the paper talk about all the lives these same treatments saved? Should we just look at the amount of deaths or should we look at a net number instead?

By any chance, have you taken a philosophical logic class? If not, I suggest you do.

I've never known of anyone who was sick, and died because someone gave them a vitamin or mineral supplement......... oh that's right, because those things actually improve overall health and have actual biochemial function within the body....... unlike a synthetic chemical which didn't exist until several hundred thousand years after mankind was already here. Guess when people acquired diabetes, cancer, high blood pressure "back in the day" it was because they had a drug deficiency right? A biochemist would have a field day with allopathic nonsense.

 

[ModifiedBass]

Notice I never said anything about dentistry, and last I checked dentists don't prescribe drugs.........

When's the last time you checked, because dentists do prescribe drugs...

Guess when people acquired diabetes, cancer, high blood pressure "back in the day" it was because they had a drug deficiency right? A biochemist would have a field day with allopathic nonsense.

This can't be serious, right? Have you ever heard of the epidemiological transition..?

I can't argue with this anymore, good luck with your beliefs.

 

[sgv]

 

[ktran17]

How can something that is supposed to improve one's health be the cause of their death? That should be the first red flag. Obviously something is wrong with that picture. Maybe it's the fact that synthetic chemicals aka drugs have nothing to do with proper biochemical function within the body? Last I checked no one has a disease because they have a deficiency in a drug or surgery, maybe that's why they are dropping people like flies..........

Because things in life are not so black and white. Medicine is not a perfect science and no one has ever claimed it was. We are constantly improving it.

There are so many scenarios that could be called to question. So you ask, how can something that is intended to improve one's health cause a death?

1) allergic reaction or contraindication
2) the patient was already nearing death
3) weak body
4) old age
5) young age

All these factors can contribute to death.

Btw, if you're still unsure of the efficacy and validity of vaccines, why not look at the immunization requirements of an established Naturopathic school?

Here's one to University of Bridgeport: College of Naturopathic Medicine
http://www.bridgeport.edu/life/stud...ervices/health-and-immunization-requirements/


Instead of stubbornly sticking to your beliefs, perhaps you could be a little more open-minded. That is what a true scientist would do. Especially in the face of facts.

Allopathic medicine has its drawbacks but to totally disregard all man made medicine is just plain ignorance. Just as there are side effects with using artificial drugs, you can find the same results from naturally occurring herbs as well.

I'm done arguing with you, come back when you have taken a logic class.

Btw, dentists do have RX privileges.

Also, RDH's are the leading cause of gum bleeding. Didn't you know?

I have a B.S. in biochem so I think i know a little bit about biochemical mechanisms. What about you?

 

[hopefulhygienist]

When's the last time you checked, because dentists do prescribe drugs...



This can't be serious, right? Have you ever heard of the epidemiological transition..?

I can't argue with this anymore, good luck with your beliefs.

Here we are again with the myth that if someone in the 1930's got rugburn they were a gonner type of mindset LOL. Yes I have heard of epidemiological transition, and what you are referring to besides being flawed is mainly contributed to improved sanitation, and most of the diseases and viruses which are credited to vaccination were already well into decline before the vaccines were in existence, if you want sources I can be here all night......... In the year 1900 the USA was number 1 in life expectancy and are now ranked 42nd. I wonder what came into prominence at the turn of the century? How come all these wonderful drugs and surgeries in this country are not causing the US to have the leading life expenctancy, or atleast somewhere in the top 10, we are ranked 42nd for God's sake! There are many,many third world countries with hardly any health care way ahead of us in healthcare, what gives?

Tell you what, I'll get off this site right now if you can answer one single question. Name one disease caused by a deficiency in a drug........... lol.

 

[Jungerr]

Despite multiple people telling you the same advice, you come out as being argumentative and deny what people tell you. Clearly your mind is already set.
The efficacy of vaccine use in increasing the overall health of the general population is not up for debate. It's a fact. Whether that number is 10% or 99% does not matter. Your job as a healthcare provider is to minimize health risks. Getting yourself vaccinated is a part of that.

If you choose not to get yourself vaccinated due to religious reasons (which I may add, sounds more like a lifestyle choice stemming from your held beliefs of vaccine use, rather than a religious one), that's fine. But don't come here asking questions then antagonize people for not providing you with the answers you wanted.

 

[hopefulhygienist]

Because things in life are not so black and white. Medicine is not a perfect science and no one has ever claimed it was. We are constantly improving it.

There are so many scenarios that could be called to question. So you ask, how can something that is intended to improve one's health cause a death?

1) allergic reaction or contraindication
2) the patient was already nearing death
3) weak body
4) old age
5) young age

All these factors can contribute to death.

Btw, if you're still unsure of the efficacy and validity of vaccines, why not look at the immunization requirements of an established Naturopathic school?

Here's one to University of Bridgeport: College of Naturopathic Medicine
http://www.bridgeport.edu/life/stud...ervices/health-and-immunization-requirements/


Instead of stubbornly sticking to your beliefs, perhaps you could be a little more open-minded. That is what a true scientist would do. Especially in the face of facts.

Allopathic medicine has its drawbacks but to totally disregard all man made medicine is just plain ignorance. Just as there are side effects with using artificial drugs, you can find the same results from naturally occurring herbs as well.

I'm done arguing with you, come back when you have taken a logic class.

Btw, dentists do have RX privileges.

Also, RDH's are the leading cause of gum bleeding. Didn't you know?

I have a B.S. in biochem so I think i know a little bit about biochemical mechanisms. What about you?

If you have a B.S. in biochemistry then you should know that a synthetic chemical and the deficiency thereof has nothing to do with a disease. Everything you are saying is very ironic, as I'd still be thinking someone with diabetes has a drug deficiency and not a deficiency of a naturally occuring substance which regulates glucose metabolism. A logic class would attest to this......... And as far as herbs I agree with you. Nobody has an herb deficiency either, but they can be used to treat symptoms in the same ways, and usually with much less side effects. In fact most drugs are isolated chemicals of an herb that is synthesized and turned into a drug, if you want I can name several hundred right here.........

the health benefits you listed are examples of emergency medicine, which I agree is where allopathic medicine shines and is a very good science. As far as chronic disease it should be illegal for MD's to treat it, considering they cannot treat it with their methods. If I'm wrong, answer the single question I asked the other fellow.....

As far as the naturopathic requirements, it says anyone can claim an exemption and are merely "strongly encouraged" to recieve them. I'm willing to bet this is just to ensure "We told you so" incase anyone tried to hold them responsible.

 

[hopefulhygienist]

Despite multiple people telling you the same advice, you come out as being argumentative and deny what people tell you. Clearly your mind is already set.
The efficacy of vaccine use in increasing the overall health of the general population is not up for debate. It's a fact. Whether that number is 10% or 99% does not matter. Your job as a healthcare provider is to minimize health risks. Getting yourself vaccinated is a part of that.

If you choose not to get yourself vaccinated due to religious reasons (which I may add, sounds more like a lifestyle choice stemming from your held beliefs of vaccine use, rather than a religious one), that's fine. But don't come here asking questions then antagonize people for not providing you with the answers you wanted.

point taken. I am objecting due to religious reasons. Earlier in this thread I made the comment that if I could find scientific reasons to go agains my beliefs I would strongly consider it, thats why this was brought up. Again, I'm not afraid of vaccines or think I'll die or get sick from taking them, that never happened to me as a child. I'm saying that I don't see a reason to go against my deeply held beliefs that mean a lot to me, for something I don't even find logically or scientifically proven. I could indeed be wrong about this, as I AM open minded. If I was not, I'd believe anything I was told like most people do, or because that man has fancy letters beside his name and a shiny white coat, anything he says must be true.

It's probably best to end this now as it is becoming off topic and more of a debate than anything

 

[ModifiedBass]

As far as chronic disease it should be illegal for MD's to treat it, considering they cannot treat it with their methods.

 

[NDPitch]

I'm still not understanding your logic here on vaccines.

So what are your thoughts about Polio? People were being infected by the thousands in the 50s. After the vaccine was distributed nation wide, infection rates dropped to the single digits by the late 70s. Or Smallpox? Another deadly disease that has essentially been eradicated from the planet after the vaccine was developed and distributed.

Did both of these pathogens just disappear on their own? Did they get up one day and walk to another planet because they were tired of infecting humans?

I think if you contracted polio (although that's now very unlikely, thanks to the vaccine of all things) and ended up in a wheelchair or were dying of respiratory paralysis, you'd be saying something other than "but it was only proven to be effective 95% of the time, so I didn't take it!"

Are you honestly going to sit there and say that if we had a breakthrough in HIV research and developed a highly effective vaccine, that you would turn it down and continue to be a hygienist, where you're exposed to blood almost every day? Now matter how low HIV infection in the dental setting is, this is unprofessional behavior. You would take a trip to India tomorrow without getting vaccinated for Typhoid? That's just reckless.

Your logic here sounds sophomoric. What is your education level? Honestly, I'm curious. I highly suggest you take an immunology class in at a university (as it seems that you haven't), and try to suggest to the professor that vaccines are ineffective. He/she will laugh at you. It is an insult to the thousands of people that have dedicated their lives to figuring out how to make you as healthy as possible. It seems like any time someone tries to prove a point with you, you just google something and try to prove it wrong.

I also don't think you fully appreciate how amazing the immune system is. Do you have any idea how many things you're exposed to on a daily basis that could otherwise KILL you if you didn't have innate and humoral immunity to protect you? Do you not appreciate the many billions of dollars and decades of research that have been put into figuring out how to prime your immune system so you have a 'one up' on the pathogen? This has saved MILLIONS of lives throughout the world (don't even try to argue this, this is a fact).

Yet, you want to dedicate your life to bettering the health of the population, while also putting you and your patients at risk of being infected with disease? EVEN IF vaccines decreased risk by only 5% (false), you'd still be into "unethical territory". All I know is that I would never hire someone who doesn't want to keep their self and their patients as safe as possible. It shows a lack of professionalism, which is a lifelong requirement to work in any health career. I give you credit for trying to stick to your guns here, but you're coming off as ignorant and closed-minded. That is all I have. Now back to studying.

 

[sgv]

So I just watched this and now I can't get rid of the image of the last scene whenever I use my high volume evacuator.

 

[hopefulhygienist]

I'm still not understanding your logic here on vaccines.

So what are your thoughts about Polio? People were being infected by the thousands in the 50s. After the vaccine was distributed nation wide, infection rates dropped to the single digits by the late 70s. Or Smallpox? Another deadly disease that has essentially been eradicated from the planet after the vaccine was developed and distributed.

Did both of these pathogens just disappear on their own? Did they get up one day and walk to another planet because they were tired of infecting humans?

I think if you contracted polio (although that's now very unlikely, thanks to the vaccine of all things) and ended up in a wheelchair or were dying of respiratory paralysis, you'd be saying something other than "but it was only proven to be effective 95% of the time, so I didn't take it!"

Are you honestly going to sit there and say that if we had a breakthrough in HIV research and developed a highly effective vaccine, that you would turn it down and continue to be a hygienist, where you're exposed to blood almost every day? Now matter how low HIV infection in the dental setting is, this is unprofessional behavior. You would take a trip to India tomorrow without getting vaccinated for Typhoid? That's just reckless.

Your logic here sounds sophomoric. What is your education level? Honestly, I'm curious. I highly suggest you take an immunology class in at a university (as it seems that you haven't), and try to suggest to the professor that vaccines are ineffective. He/she will laugh at you. It is an insult to the thousands of people that have dedicated their lives to figuring out how to make you as healthy as possible. It seems like any time someone tries to prove a point with you, you just google something and try to prove it wrong.

I also don't think you fully appreciate how amazing the immune system is. Do you have any idea how many things you're exposed to on a daily basis that could otherwise KILL you if you didn't have innate and humoral immunity to protect you? Do you not appreciate the many billions of dollars and decades of research that have been put into figuring out how to prime your immune system so you have a 'one up' on the pathogen? This has saved MILLIONS of lives throughout the world (don't even try to argue this, this is a fact).

Yet, you want to dedicate your life to bettering the health of the population, while also putting you and your patients at risk of being infected with disease? EVEN IF vaccines decreased risk by only 5% (false), you'd still be into "unethical territory". All I know is that I would never hire someone who doesn't want to keep their self and their patients as safe as possible. It shows a lack of professionalism, which is a lifelong requirement to work in any health career. I give you credit for trying to stick to your guns here, but you're coming off as ignorant and closed-minded. That is all I have. Now back to studying.

As I expected, you touted the "holy grail" of the vaccine realm, polio

In 1957 after the polio vaccine was given to the masses, polio was already in major decline..............

http://www.post-polio.org/ir-usa.html

You don't see a contradiction when you say that my immune system is saving me from sudden death, and about how many viruses we swim in daily, and then say how wonderful vaccines are.......... Yes I am fully aware that if we died from just exposure from a virus I wouldnt be typing this. Obviously if having antibodies for a virus was "the way" to not be infected this room would be empty, and this is one of my points.

I don't doubt vaccines have some effectiveness. My point is why I should have to be vaccinated instead of those who "don't want to be sick" to be vaccinated. It makes no sense for a patient to be subjected to thousands of other unvaccinated patients and have no problem with that apparently, but if a nurse isn't vaccinated everyone wants to ressurect the old witch burning laws. I'm just making the point that in my opinion the nurse should have the same right as the patient. By this logic a patient can't sue another patient for giving them the flu or hepatitis B, but can sue a nurse for giving it to them? They can't sue a gas station clerk, but they can sue the medical assistant? I'm just against someone having to be forced to do something the general population is not.

This conversation seems to be going nowhere, which I have no problem admitting I am "Set in my ways" as far as this. I just want to get the point across that it seems incredibly stupid to me for a patient to come into a dentists office choosing not to be vaccinated, and then if that patient gets the flu or hep B somehow from the hygienist, all of a sudden it's their fault, yet people in any other business are not treated as such. Does the patient stop being a patient when they are at the gas station? Or do we only care about them when they are in our office? It seems we only care about them when they can sue us...........

 

[hopefulhygienist]

You're more than welcome to prove me wrong........... Just tell me one disease that is caused by a deficieny in a drug.............

 

[dieanotherday]

You're just making your life more complicated for no good reason

Hygiene schools will admit others who will be vaccinated even if you choose not to be

Say you slip through the cracks and manage to become a hygienist somehow

even then dentists will hire vaccinated hygienists while you will have a hard time finding anyone who would take you

Life is already hard enough why are you giving yourself unnecessary obstacles and essentially more red tape/hoops to jump through

You are completely limiting your opportunities for success when these chances are already limited. There are a finite number of hygiene schools.

Good luck finding a school that will take you

Good luck finding a job in any health related field

Once again take your issues up to CDC and lawmakers if you're this butthurt about getting vaccinated

 

[hopefulhygienist]

You're just making your life more complicated for no good reason

Hygiene schools will admit others who will be vaccinated even if you choose not to be

Say you slip through the cracks and manage to become a hygienist somehow

even then dentists will hire vaccinated hygienists while you will have a hard time finding anyone who would take you

Life is already hard enough why are you giving yourself unnecessary obstacles and essentially more red tape/hoops to jump through

You are completely limiting your opportunities for success when these chances are already limited. There are a finite number of hygiene schools.

Good luck finding a school that will take you

Good luck finding a job in any health related field

Once again take your issues up to CDC and lawmakers if you're this butthurt about getting vaccinated

You may be very right about that, thanks for giving me some things to consider

 

[hopefulhygienist]

I'm still not understanding your logic here on vaccines.

So what are your thoughts about Polio? People were being infected by the thousands in the 50s. After the vaccine was distributed nation wide, infection rates dropped to the single digits by the late 70s. Or Smallpox? Another deadly disease that has essentially been eradicated from the planet after the vaccine was developed and distributed.

Did both of these pathogens just disappear on their own? Did they get up one day and walk to another planet because they were tired of infecting humans?

I think if you contracted polio (although that's now very unlikely, thanks to the vaccine of all things) and ended up in a wheelchair or were dying of respiratory paralysis, you'd be saying something other than "but it was only proven to be effective 95% of the time, so I didn't take it!"

Are you honestly going to sit there and say that if we had a breakthrough in HIV research and developed a highly effective vaccine, that you would turn it down and continue to be a hygienist, where you're exposed to blood almost every day? Now matter how low HIV infection in the dental setting is, this is unprofessional behavior. You would take a trip to India tomorrow without getting vaccinated for Typhoid? That's just reckless.

Your logic here sounds sophomoric. What is your education level? Honestly, I'm curious. I highly suggest you take an immunology class in at a university (as it seems that you haven't), and try to suggest to the professor that vaccines are ineffective. He/she will laugh at you. It is an insult to the thousands of people that have dedicated their lives to figuring out how to make you as healthy as possible. It seems like any time someone tries to prove a point with you, you just google something and try to prove it wrong.

I also don't think you fully appreciate how amazing the immune system is. Do you have any idea how many things you're exposed to on a daily basis that could otherwise KILL you if you didn't have innate and humoral immunity to protect you? Do you not appreciate the many billions of dollars and decades of research that have been put into figuring out how to prime your immune system so you have a 'one up' on the pathogen? This has saved MILLIONS of lives throughout the world (don't even try to argue this, this is a fact).

Yet, you want to dedicate your life to bettering the health of the population, while also putting you and your patients at risk of being infected with disease? EVEN IF vaccines decreased risk by only 5% (false), you'd still be into "unethical territory". All I know is that I would never hire someone who doesn't want to keep their self and their patients as safe as possible. It shows a lack of professionalism, which is a lifelong requirement to work in any health career. I give you credit for trying to stick to your guns here, but you're coming off as ignorant and closed-minded. That is all I have. Now back to studying.

Also wanted to mention the fact that the myth that polio was a virus that killed everyone and left everyone with an iron lung is complete nonsense. Before the polio vaccine was introduced to the masses in 1957 it had already been declining greatly, because after being exposed to the virus and most experiencing flu like symptoms they acquired a life long immunity, this happens with every virus epidemic on earth, they have a peak and then decline.

Here at the statistics from the merck manuals that any doctor should have at his or her disposal:

around 90% of the polio cases were a simple viral infection. It caused slight fever,headache,sore throat, vomiting, and 24-72 hours for full recovery. This was not the mass murderer people portray it to be. Polio really acted like a typical flu, which ofcourse can cause complications for some of the population but most only have temporary symptoms that go away within a few days.

5% of the polio cases were abortive poliomyletis, which was characterized by sore throat, diarrhea, fever and was Indistinguishable from any other viral infection.

3% was non-paralytic poliomyletis which was characterized by high fever, severe neck pain, severe headache and limb weakness. These symptoms lasted typically 2-10 days.

and lastly about 2% had paralytic polio, and the kind you are thinking of with the famed iron lung was 0.4% of cases......... I'm not trying to minimize the horrible effects for those unfortunate people, but to act like polio is any more deadly than the seasonal flu is just nonsensical. 98% of the polio cases were just temporary isssues and totally resolved within a few days followed by life long immunity, not due to the vaccine, but to the obvious decline..........

 

[hopefulhygienist]

Wanted to add one more thing for all the people that claim I'm stupid or endangering people by not being vaccinated. Because most people don't actually read studies or find out what they really mean when they say the vaccine has a 90% efficacy. Most assume that means that 90% will not contract the virus........ not at all true, infact this fact is widely published in the medical literature about almost all vaccines. There are two different types of efficacy. One type is the ability to induce the production of antibodies, and the other one which REALLY matters is the ability to not contract the virus after post vaccination exposure. This form which really matters is rarely or never tested. It hasn't been tested in chicken pox,hep B, pertusus, and many many others, most of the vaccines everyone takes and this is admitted. The one common vaccine which was tested for post vaccine exposure efficacy was the seasonal flu and the results are no surprise to me. Last year it was shown that post vaccination efficacy for 18-49 year olds was only 46% and was only 9% for those older than 65........... And was 56% effective for those younger than 18. If you want to live in the fantasy that vaccination is the best way to avoid virus contraction you are welcome to. The studies that have been done with viral infections and vacccine efficacy CLEARLY show that mere antibody production is next to meaningless, and we would see similiar numbers of those who did and did not get the virus in the general population who were not vacccinated at all. This includes polio,hep B,chicken pox, etc.

In the words of Dr John March who is the chief executive of the vaccine developement company bigDNA in scottland: "Particularly for viral diseases, the ‘cellular’immune response is all important, and antibody levels and protection are totally unconnected."

This is a fact that has been known for many decades. Unfortunately people just asssume because a vacccine produces an antibody production response, that therefore it will prevent them from infection, and clinical studies show otherwise.............

 

[IsaacYankem]

So you're not at all curious about this? http://www.nih.gov/news/health/nov2013/niaid-08.htm

Commence the 21st century summer of love when this proves effective

 

[Apollonia]

Hello everyone, I'm considering going into dental hygiene school. I find many things about the field that I think I would enjoy, but of course understand it will be different in some ways in reality.

My question/concern is about being vaccinated. I understand that it's very common for healthcare fields to require vaccination. I have religious reasons for not wanting to personally be vaccinated, and no it's not "I heard some scary stuff about vaccines on the internet so now I have a religious reason for not being vaccinated".

With my personal religion, I have a very certain way of living that deals with following the "laws of nature" and how to mantain health and remain free of illness. A way that has always worked for me and to me atleast seems very logical, but I'm not here to be a missionary, haha.

I was vaccinated as every other child when I was a youngster, and to my knowledge didn't suffer any ill effects, and besides being afraid of needles I'm not afraid of vaccines, but I just find a sincere conflict with my religious beliefs. I don't even consume animal products, which is a teaching from my religion, I hold my beliefs very near and dear to my heart and don't want to have to "leave myself at the door" in order to have a career I'd like.

My question is, has anyone else claimed a religious exemption and gone into hygiene school? Was it an issue? Do you think it would create a problem? I know legally I have the right do claim an exemption, but unfortunately that doesn't mean laws will be followed or someone won't hassle me about it. I just don't want to have to be "that person" in the class.

Do dentists have a problem with their hygienists not being vaccinated? I do understand there are potential risks of contracting certain diseases/viruses such as Hep.B and several others. I do assume that the protective gear the hygienists wear including gloves, face mask, etc and keeping everything steryl may virutally make the contraction of these things impossible, maybe I'm wrong though.

I just don't want to create a big issue by claiming an exemption, and possibly even hinder my chances at employement. I would hope to be able to keep my religious practices and also pursue my preferred career.

Any advice you can give will be greatly appreciated!

I'm surprised no one has asked yet.........what religion do you follow?

 

[Faux]

As another member posted, in healthy adults the hep b vaccine in 10% innefective, doesn't sound like an issue right? Okay, well based on those statistics we take 100,000 health care workes and 10K of them can still spread and contract the virus........... I guess I'd just have to hope I wasn't one of the 10%. And 10,000 nurses walking around thinking they are protected but actually can spread the disease is not a danger to patients? The worst part is the entire medical staff and patients has no idea who that 10% are........

I don't understand why everyone has to be a jerk about this, I thought people might respect my views here, even if they don't match theirs.

You are a future health care provider and as one, you must take every precaution to ensure the safety and health of your patients. Unlike every day people, we work at ground zero in regard to harmful bacteria/viruses and exposure. Thats why certain vaccines are required for us. The average Joe can take a pass on it, but not health care providers. Our career choice demands for us to take that responsibility. You're welcome to your religious beliefs, but its a bit daunting to see you make an argument about a 10% ineffective rate. What if you didn't take it and regardless of the safety protocols you take, you ended up giving it to someone? Do you really want to entertain that risk? I always encounter people that get so fixated on certain points of their religion and they all seem to forget the core idea of every one, which is, do no harm.

You see the hep B vaccine and all that you mention is the 10% ineffective rate. Is 90% effectiveness, not good enough for your patients? There are many careers out there, this doesn't have to be one of you if it makes you feel uncomfortable.

 

[hopefulhygienist]

You are a future health care provider and as one, you must take every precaution to ensure the safety and health of your patients. Unlike every day people, we work at ground zero in regard to harmful bacteria/viruses and exposure. Thats why certain vaccines are required for us. The average Joe can take a pass on it, but not health care providers. Our career choice demands for us to take that responsibility. You're welcome to your religious beliefs, but its a bit daunting to see you make an argument about a 10% ineffective rate. What if you didn't take it and regardless of the safety protocols you take, you ended up giving it to someone? Do you really want to entertain that risk? I always encounter people that get so fixated on certain points of their religion and they all seem to forget the core idea of every one, which is, do no harm.

You see the hep B vaccine and all that you mention is the 10% ineffective rate. Is 90% effectiveness, not good enough for your patients? There are many careers out there, this doesn't have to be one of you if it makes you feel uncomfortable.

As I said before the word effectiveness is not what you think it is, how much more clear can I be? The entire vaccine effectiveness is an assumption. In the example of the hep b vaccine, it was 90% effective in producing antibodies, okay so what does that mean? Not much, did they expose the 90% to the hep b virus to see what the clinical efficacy was? Nope......... That is the only statistic that matters at the end of the day. It's a very well known fact that just producing antibodies means next to nothing, especially for viral infections. People assume that because they produce antibodies therefore they won't get sick, this is a false assumption. This false assumption is used with almost all vaccines including hep b, polio, smallpox, chicken pox, etc. The influenza vaccine was subjected to clinical efficacy tests the results show that forcing anyone to be vaccinated and concluding that antibody inducement equal effectiveness is nonsense.

In the most common age group in colleges and places of employement 18-49, vaccinated individuals still got the flu 54% of the time........... those over 65 year old has a failure rate of 91%! Wait, they all produced antibodies so why did they still get the flu, and what's the deal with the elderly still getting the flu 91% of the time? You don't think their overall health and health of their immune system had anything to do with it do you? And the 46% that didn't get the flu, how do we know they didnt get the flu because they were vaccinated? It's common sense that not everyone exposed to the flu gets it, and we have no other way of proving why they didn't get the flu, maybe they didn't get it, for the opposite reason the others did, maybe they had a good immune system and good overall health. The clinical efficacy studies that have been done clearly show that anitbody production DOES NOT protect against infection.

While I keep citing study and study, all everyone can do is keep touting dogmatic statements like "you're putting your patients in danger". The statement sounds good and logical and rolls off the toungue nicely, but that doesn't make it so. The actual science shows otherwise.

The hep b vaccine and many others have NEVER been tested for clinical efficacy, and this is widely admitted in the CDC literature. Until it is done so, it is a crime to force people to take it and propound the lie that taking them protects the population.

 

[hopefulhygienist]

So you're not at all curious about this? http://www.nih.gov/news/health/nov2013/niaid-08.htm

Commence the 21st century summer of love when this proves effective

Sure, a herpes vaccine that worked would help a lot of people. I'm not against vaccines here, just like I'm not against drugs, I'm against them being forced upon people with no evidence of effectiveness. Now when I say that, everyone will say I'm in denial and can't read. yet again, listen to what I'm saying. There are two different types of effectiveness. What they do is say a vaccine is effective because is induces antibody production within the body and then ASSUME that conclude therefore it must be clinically effective meaning that when the vaccinated are actually exposed to the virus, that the antibodies will ward off the infection, this is entirely untrue, and as I stated the clinical studies that have been done for this reason show this clearly.

It's literally the same logic as putting airbags in cars and never testing them to see if they deploy, but since they put them in the car they conclude they will deploy....... I'll be waiting for another response from everyone avoiding every point I made

 

[dieanotherday]

Listen to me honey,
I don't care about your links/evidence or science behind effectiveness or not

Whether you like it or not getting vaccinated is a requirement at all schools

If you want to be a hygienist then you need to get vaccinated
When you start a family do whatever you want don't vaccinate your kids teach them all about how they don't need it

If you ever want your kids in any educational institution you will face the same exact problem. It is a requirement!!!!

My school is making me buy an iPad
I don't think it's helpful I don't want to spend extra money

But it is a requirement
Is it going to hurt me or kill me if I get one? No but I'll be out several hundred dollars

The vaccinations, is it going to kill you to get a couple of shots? No.

Do you personally think it will help you?
From what you wrote obviously not.

But if it's not going to kill you and you need it to even put your foot through the door for the school that will teach you the skills you will have that will be your bread and butter for the rest of your life why would you make a big deal out of this?

 

[hopefulhygienist]

Listen to me honey,
I don't care about your links/evidence or science behind effectiveness or not

Whether you like it or not getting vaccinated is a requirement at all schools

If you want to be a hygienist then you need to get vaccinated
When you start a family do whatever you want don't vaccinate your kids teach them all about how they don't need it

If you ever want your kids in any educational institution you will face the same exact problem. It is a requirement!!!!

My school is making me buy an iPad
I don't think it's helpful I don't want to spend extra money

But it is a requirement
Is it going to hurt me or kill me if I get one? No but I'll be out several hundred dollars

The vaccinations, is it going to kill you to get a couple of shots? No.

Do you personally think it will help you?
From what you wrote obviously not.

But if it's not going to kill you and you need it to even put your foot through the door for the school that will teach you the skills you will have that will be your bread and butter for the rest of your life why would you make a big deal out of this?

It's unfortunate because I do want to be in the field, and have a sincere interest in it, I just have religious reasons for not doing so, and like I said, I tried finding scientific reasons to go against my beliefs. I have no poblem being wrong. But like you say, not being vaccinated will create more of an issue.

 

[dieanotherday]

It's unfortunate because I do want to be in the field, and have a sincere interest in it, I just have religious reasons for not doing so, and like I said, I tried finding scientific reasons to go against my beliefs. I have no poblem being wrong. But like you say, not being vaccinated will create more of an issue.

This won't be the last time you have to do things that you don't necessarily believe in

As for my family and my future as a dentist I don't like having to pay into social security when I will never have the chance to use it. But come tax season if I don't pay my dues the government can put me in jail. What sounds worse? Id rather pay than go to jail

You should quickly realize you would rather be vaccinated than miss out on your dream career

 

[amfassz]

What religion is this again?

 

[NDPitch]

What religion is this again?

Unprofessionalism.

 

[KellyCats68]

Also wanted to mention the fact that the myth that polio was a virus that killed everyone and left everyone with an iron lung is complete nonsense. Before the polio vaccine was introduced to the masses in 1957 it had already been declining greatly, because after being exposed to the virus and most experiencing flu like symptoms they acquired a life long immunity, this happens with every virus epidemic on earth, they have a peak and then decline.

Here at the statistics from the merck manuals that any doctor should have at his or her disposal:

around 90% of the polio cases were a simple viral infection. It caused slight fever,headache,sore throat, vomiting, and 24-72 hours for full recovery. This was not the mass murderer people portray it to be. Polio really acted like a typical flu, which ofcourse can cause complications for some of the population but most only have temporary symptoms that go away within a few days.

5% of the polio cases were abortive poliomyletis, which was characterized by sore throat, diarrhea, fever and was Indistinguishable from any other viral infection.

3% was non-paralytic poliomyletis which was characterized by high fever, severe neck pain, severe headache and limb weakness. These symptoms lasted typically 2-10 days.

and lastly about 2% had paralytic polio, and the kind you are thinking of with the famed iron lung was 0.4% of cases......... I'm not trying to minimize the horrible effects for those unfortunate people, but to act like polio is any more deadly than the seasonal flu is just nonsensical. 98% of the polio cases were just temporary isssues and totally resolved within a few days followed by life long immunity, not due to the vaccine, but to the obvious decline..........

I stumbled across this OLD thread and it is got to be one of the most amazingly ignorant threads I've just about ever read. This woman has no clue what she is talking about. Read a few googled articles online and now thinks she is an expert. She has no desire to be in the medical field. She is simply an anti vaxxer looking for a soap box. This is the absolute worst kind of ignorance. I notice she NEVER mentions what so called religion prevents her from saving lives with vaccinations. I have news for you sweety. it is NOT ABOUT YOU. It's people like you who cause the deaths of children in this country AND babies. Those too young to be vaccinated by their responsible parents yet DIE because people like you are carrying around disease due to your so called "right" to avoid vaccinations. It is also causing illnesses that had previously been all but extinct in this country to make a come back. The patience shown to you in these replies totally amazes me. I tip my hat to those that tolerated this nonsense. She asked a question, received her answer then continued to try and "educate" those so far above her in intelligence that it was mind blowing and she still continued to roll out her pathetic googled nonsense. I have worked for a dental lab, as a medical assistant AND a home health aid. My first health care vaccinations were for the dental lab. And guess what? We never even came in contact with the patients. We simply were in contact with their impressions and yet we still were required to be vaccinated. When I went to medical assisting school, I had my self tested to see if the vaccinations were still reactive in my body and they were so I did not need to be vaccinated again. I was unable to set FOOT into a medical office or a dental assisting lab without vaccinations. And, in Ohio, if you refuse the flu vaccine, you are fired. It's that simple. The reasons for vaccinations is simple common sense. It is for the good of all mankind. Particularly children who are too young to be vaccinated. You have NO RIGHT to expose others to your unvaccinated person. No children or elderly or immune compromised person should be anywhere near you. It's obscene and I can not think of a religion anywhere and I've learned all about several religions that would advocate a possible walking time bomb. It is so irresponsible it blows my mind. None of the other stuff you have spouted her has any relevance to the issue you even supposedly inquiring about. Besides the health care field. I do not believe it is safe for you to be around crowds or any place where many young children or babies would be. I surely would not want you around my grand children. I have been through school. Medical and dental and there is NO place that I know of that would give you ANY type of exemption for religion. That was tried and tolerated in grade schools briefly until children started getting sick then it became mandated again but NO medical schools or offices have EVER permitted a non vaccinated person in their offices or or schools. Patients lives are far more important than this. You need to find another profession if this is a deal breaker. Preferably away from children as well.

 

[KellyCats68]

Unprofessionalism.

I stumbled across this OLD thread and it is got to be one of the most amazingly ignorant threads I've just about ever read. This woman has no clue what she is talking about. Read a few googled articles online and now thinks she is an expert. She has no desire to be in the medical field. She is simply an anti vaxxer looking for a soap box. This is the absolute worst kind of ignorance. I notice she NEVER mentions what so called religion prevents her from saving lives with vaccinations. I have news for you sweety. it is NOT ABOUT YOU. It's people like you who cause the deaths of children in this country AND babies. Those too young to be vaccinated by their responsible parents yet DIE because people like you are carrying around disease due to your so called "right" to avoid vaccinations. It is also causing illnesses that had previously been all but extinct in this country to make a come back. The patience shown to you in these replies totally amazes me. I tip my hat to those that tolerated this nonsense. She asked a question, received her answer then continued to try and "educate" those so far above her in intelligence that it was mind blowing and she still continued to roll out her pathetic googled nonsense. I have worked for a dental lab, as a medical assistant AND a home health aid. My first health care vaccinations were for the dental lab. And guess what? We never even came in contact with the patients. We simply were in contact with their impressions and yet we still were required to be vaccinated. When I went to medical assisting school, I had my self tested to see if the vaccinations were still reactive in my body and they were so I did not need to be vaccinated again. I was unable to set FOOT into a medical office or a dental assisting lab without vaccinations. And, in Ohio, if you refuse the flu vaccine, you are fired. It's that simple. The reasons for vaccinations is simple common sense. It is for the good of all mankind. Particularly children who are too young to be vaccinated. You have NO RIGHT to expose others to your unvaccinated person. No children or elderly or immune compromised person should be anywhere near you. It's obscene and I can not think of a religion anywhere and I've learned all about several religions that would advocate a possible walking time bomb. It is so irresponsible it blows my mind. None of the other stuff you have spouted her has any relevance to the issue you even supposedly inquiring about. Besides the health care field. I do not believe it is safe for you to be around crowds or any place where many young children or babies would be. I surely would not want you around my grand children. I have been through school. Medical and dental and there is NO place that I know of that would give you ANY type of exemption for religion. That was tried and tolerated in grade schools briefly until children started getting sick then it became mandated again but NO medical schools or offices have EVER permitted a non vaccinated person in their offices or or schools. Patients lives are far more important than this. You need to find another profession if this is a deal breaker. Preferably away from children as well.

 

[KellyCats68]

I stumbled across this OLD thread and it is got to be one of the most amazingly ignorant threads I've just about ever read. This woman has no clue what she is talking about. Read a few googled articles online and now thinks she is an expert. She has no desire to be in the medical field. She is simply an anti vaxxer looking for a soap box. This is the absolute worst kind of ignorance. I notice she NEVER mentions what so called religion prevents her from saving lives with vaccinations. I have news for you sweety. it is NOT ABOUT YOU. It's people like you who cause the deaths of children in this country AND babies. Those too young to be vaccinated by their responsible parents yet DIE because people like you are carrying around disease due to your so called "right" to avoid vaccinations. It is also causing illnesses that had previously been all but extinct in this country to make a come back. The patience shown to you in these replies totally amazes me. I tip my hat to those that tolerated this nonsense. She asked a question, received her answer then continued to try and "educate" those so far above her in intelligence that it was mind blowing and she still continued to roll out her pathetic googled nonsense. I have worked for a dental lab, as a medical assistant AND a home health aid. My first health care vaccinations were for the dental lab. And guess what? We never even came in contact with the patients. We simply were in contact with their impressions and yet we still were required to be vaccinated. When I went to medical assisting school, I had my self tested to see if the vaccinations were still reactive in my body and they were so I did not need to be vaccinated again. I was unable to set FOOT into a medical office or a dental assisting lab without vaccinations. And, in Ohio, if you refuse the flu vaccine, you are fired. It's that simple. The reasons for vaccinations is simple common sense. It is for the good of all mankind. Particularly children who are too young to be vaccinated. You have NO RIGHT to expose others to your unvaccinated person. No children or elderly or immune compromised person should be anywhere near you. It's obscene and I can not think of a religion anywhere and I've learned all about several religions that would advocate a possible walking time bomb. It is so irresponsible it blows my mind. None of the other stuff you have spouted her has any relevance to the issue you even supposedly inquiring about. Besides the health care field. I do not believe it is safe for you to be around crowds or any place where many young children or babies would be. I surely would not want you around my grand children. I have been through school. Medical and dental and there is NO place that I know of that would give you ANY type of exemption for religion. That was tried and tolerated in grade schools briefly until children started getting sick then it became mandated again but NO medical schools or offices have EVER permitted a non vaccinated person in their offices or or schools. Patients lives are far more important than this. You need to find another profession if this is a deal breaker. Preferably away from children as well.

 

[KellyCats68]

Because things in life are not so black and white. Medicine is not a perfect science and no one has ever claimed it was. We are constantly improving it.

There are so many scenarios that could be called to question. So you ask, how can something that is intended to improve one's health cause a death?

1) allergic reaction or contraindication
2) the patient was already nearing death
3) weak body
4) old age
5) young age

All these factors can contribute to death.

Btw, if you're still unsure of the efficacy and validity of vaccines, why not look at the immunization requirements of an established Naturopathic school?

Here's one to University of Bridgeport: College of Naturopathic Medicine
http://www.bridgeport.edu/life/stud...ervices/health-and-immunization-requirements/


Instead of stubbornly sticking to your beliefs, perhaps you could be a little more open-minded. That is what a true scientist would do. Especially in the face of facts.

Allopathic medicine has its drawbacks but to totally disregard all man made medicine is just plain ignorance. Just as there are side effects with using artificial drugs, you can find the same results from naturally occurring herbs as well.

I'm done arguing with you, come back when you have taken a logic class.

Btw, dentists do have RX privileges.

Also, RDH's are the leading cause of gum bleeding. Didn't you know?

I have a B.S. in biochem so I think i know a little bit about biochemical mechanisms. What about you?

I stumbled across this OLD thread and it is got to be one of the most amazingly ignorant threads I've just about ever read. This woman has no clue what she is talking about. Read a few googled articles online and now thinks she is an expert. She has no desire to be in the medical field. She is simply an anti vaxxer looking for a soap box. This is the absolute worst kind of ignorance. I notice she NEVER mentions what so called religion prevents her from saving lives with vaccinations. I have news for you sweety. it is NOT ABOUT YOU. It's people like you who cause the deaths of children in this country AND babies. Those too young to be vaccinated by their responsible parents yet DIE because people like you are carrying around disease due to your so called "right" to avoid vaccinations. It is also causing illnesses that had previously been all but extinct in this country to make a come back. The patience shown to you in these replies totally amazes me. I tip my hat to those that tolerated this nonsense. She asked a question, received her answer then continued to try and "educate" those so far above her in intelligence that it was mind blowing and she still continued to roll out her pathetic googled nonsense. I have worked for a dental lab, as a medical assistant AND a home health aid. My first health care vaccinations were for the dental lab. And guess what? We never even came in contact with the patients. We simply were in contact with their impressions and yet we still were required to be vaccinated. When I went to medical assisting school, I had my self tested to see if the vaccinations were still reactive in my body and they were so I did not need to be vaccinated again. I was unable to set FOOT into a medical office or a dental assisting lab without vaccinations. And, in Ohio, if you refuse the flu vaccine, you are fired. It's that simple. The reasons for vaccinations is simple common sense. It is for the good of all mankind. Particularly children who are too young to be vaccinated. You have NO RIGHT to expose others to your unvaccinated person. No children or elderly or immune compromised person should be anywhere near you. It's obscene and I can not think of a religion anywhere and I've learned all about several religions that would advocate a possible walking time bomb. It is so irresponsible it blows my mind. None of the other stuff you have spouted her has any relevance to the issue you even supposedly inquiring about. Besides the health care field. I do not believe it is safe for you to be around crowds or any place where many young children or babies would be. I surely would not want you around my grand children. I have been through school. Medical and dental and there is NO place that I know of that would give you ANY type of exemption for religion. That was tried and tolerated in grade schools briefly until children started getting sick then it became mandated again but NO medical schools or offices have EVER permitted a non vaccinated person in their offices or or schools. Patients lives are far more important than this. You need to find another profession if this is a deal breaker. Preferably away from children as well.

 

[RDHinCA]

First of all, I know this is an old thread, but I just read through its entirety. I'm currently a registered dental hygienist who works in California. I, like you, have my reasons for not wanting to be vaccinated. And for pretty much all the same reasons you've listed! I am saddened by the fact that people are so blind in their own convictions and most like to believe what they've been told or force fed without asking any questions or doing any real research. It baffles me, really. I just wanted to thank you. You remained professional the entire time these people brought up another invalid point or kept touting the same phrases over and over again. I truly admired your patience and thoughtfulness and how you handled everyone's individual response. It showed major professionalism, unlike what one poster had said. And you remained open-minded the entire time. You really were listening to them and waiting for any valid response and not one person could answer your question without berating or bashing you or your beliefs. And these people are potentially going to be working in health care? That's just insane to me.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I wanted to give my two cents in hopes it would actually answer some of the questions you asked. But again, I can only speak from my experience here in California. In order to get into the dental hygiene program we were required to show proof that we had been vaccinated for or had titres for MMR, tDAP, and Chicken pox & that we didn't have tuberculosis. I don't know if anyone was exempt from having to take get the hepatitis b vaccine but I ended up getting it. That was the only one I was required to have, but again, I didn't look into or ask anyone if there were any way to exempt myself from receiving one. But I worked for multiple dentists temping one year and not one of them asked me for proof of vaccination or asked if I had been up-to-date on them. Not one. And that year I worked for 15+ dentists, usually more than once until I could find a dental 'home'. And even the 2 dentists I work for now, don't require I get the flu vaccine and have ever asked for my immunization recipes or anything about vaccines for that matter. So I think it's solely for the school to cover their "assets" if you know what I mean. I agree with you wholeheartedly that we approach this whole thing as if people are only our patients when they're in our chair or care, but as soon as they leave they can be exposed to any number of things. And I don't know anyone whos ever gotten the flu, or any disease for that matter, that actually knows who they got it from. So this goes against every ounce of common sense I possess. It's just very hypocritical and there's a huge double-standard when it comes to vaccines in the medical field. Big pharma is making money off the sick, period. They won't make money on us if we're healthy, or if we're dead, so the whole point is to keep us sick. So I, like you, until there is scientific data that proves I'm actually better off having it than not, I won't buy into it. And like you, I take care of my health, and watch what I eat, and exercise, and maintain hygiene, and you know what ??? I rarely, if ever, get sick. I have felt under the weather here or there but I attribute that to my body doing exactly what it needs to do.
And I know this is off topic but goes hand in hand with trusting your mind, body and your soul. I ended up having my baby boy completely naturally, in a water-birth. I just trusted the process and the midwives who had been working with me for 9 months. And it went against everything my friends and family had ever known. So I just wanted to commend you for thinking for yourself, and doing your research and asking questions. It was very refreshing to be reading something that resonated so deeply within me, and for that, I thank you! I'm sorry you didn't get more positive responses from people. People seem to attack or get defensive when their beliefs get challenged, as you reacted were quite the opposite and definitely not as how people were portraying you.

I read a quote recently that hit home and calmed my soul so I wanted to share it with you. (Though I know this was 4 years ago and I'm sure you've since moved on).

It reads; "Note to self: you can't control how other people receive your energy. Anything you do or say gets filtered through the lens of whatever they are going through at the moment, which is not about you. Just keep doing your thing with as much love and integrity as possible."

And as a hygienist I have been so amazed at the countless lives I've been able to touch or improve just by having this platform I do. And one of my professors said, "there's an office out there for everybody", and here in Nor Cal, there are several offices I've personally worked for who are more conservative, more natural, fluoride-free, etc. So you'd definitely be able to find your niche. I hope if you're not a hygienist, you are getting to do whatever it is your soul is calling you to do. You seem like a natural healer, and the care in which you chose your responses to people who weren't always caring how they replied to you, spoke volumes. Keep spreading that bright, beautiful light of yours! And I really and truly hope the healthcare system gets more people like you into it! That's what it actually needs. Peace, love & light. ✌️♥️✨

 

[RDHinCA]

I stumbled across this OLD thread and it is got to be one of the most amazingly ignorant threads I've just about ever read. This woman has no clue what she is talking about. Read a few googled articles online and now thinks she is an expert. She has no desire to be in the medical field. She is simply an anti vaxxer looking for a soap box. This is the absolute worst kind of ignorance. I notice she NEVER mentions what so called religion prevents her from saving lives with vaccinations. I have news for you sweety. it is NOT ABOUT YOU. It's people like you who cause the deaths of children in this country AND babies. Those too young to be vaccinated by their responsible parents yet DIE because people like you are carrying around disease due to your so called "right" to avoid vaccinations. It is also causing illnesses that had previously been all but extinct in this country to make a come back. The patience shown to you in these replies totally amazes me. I tip my hat to those that tolerated this nonsense. She asked a question, received her answer then continued to try and "educate" those so far above her in intelligence that it was mind blowing and she still continued to roll out her pathetic googled nonsense. I have worked for a dental lab, as a medical assistant AND a home health aid. My first health care vaccinations were for the dental lab. And guess what? We never even came in contact with the patients. We simply were in contact with their impressions and yet we still were required to be vaccinated. When I went to medical assisting school, I had my self tested to see if the vaccinations were still reactive in my body and they were so I did not need to be vaccinated again. I was unable to set FOOT into a medical office or a dental assisting lab without vaccinations. And, in Ohio, if you refuse the flu vaccine, you are fired. It's that simple. The reasons for vaccinations is simple common sense. It is for the good of all mankind. Particularly children who are too young to be vaccinated. You have NO RIGHT to expose others to your unvaccinated person. No children or elderly or immune compromised person should be anywhere near you. It's obscene and I can not think of a religion anywhere and I've learned all about several religions that would advocate a possible walking time bomb. It is so irresponsible it blows my mind. None of the other stuff you have spouted her has any relevance to the issue you even supposedly inquiring about. Besides the health care field. I do not believe it is safe for you to be around crowds or any place where many young children or babies would be. I surely would not want you around my grand children. I have been through school. Medical and dental and there is NO place that I know of that would give you ANY type of exemption for religion. That was tried and tolerated in grade schools briefly until children started getting sick then it became mandated again but NO medical schools or offices have EVER permitted a non vaccinated person in their offices or or schools. Patients lives are far more important than this. You need to find another profession if this is a deal breaker. Preferably away from children as well.

You may want to step off your soapbox long enough to actually do some research. You sound like every other sheep out there, believing all the lies you've been fed. You probably watch the news all the time, too and can't seem to figure out why you're so dissatisfied with your life. You aren't doing anything to change it, and then you go out of your way to bash and berate someone else who thinks differently than you, who doesn't just want to go with the herd "because that's how it's done around here". People like you are what's wrong with this world. I really and truly wish you peace and I'm sending you love. ♥️