dental salary

[dort-ort]

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I agree that once you get out thats the only time you'll know really exactly how much you're going to make. This process however takes a couple of years because once you get out the main thing you're trying to do is learn your craft - perfecting your skills - learning all the new and current techniques (thats not taught in dental school) and going to continuing ed courses -- then once you get out there talk to cohorts, established dentist,specialists, etc., and compare between being an associate (least pay - slave labor), junior partner (better but still slave to senior partner), your own office (best, but if your starting out -- your poor due to loans so your slave to bankers and such), only when you have your own practice 5 years or more, in good location, get involved in community, and have good reputation, good knowledge of elective (cosmetic) techniques, and treat people well, and of course deliver with excellent treatment results will you reach the critical mass of being a successful dentist and you have potential to make lots of cash - and with investments and good partnering with financial advisors and accountants -- you can make 7 figures and retire in 10 yrs (so thats total 15 if you count building your practice for 5 yrs. or more). yes thats 7 figures, of course, thats before taxes, still thats where your accountants come in --- they will keep you away from being in the 40 percentile tax bracket. If you guys really want to know, those that report a high income in their tax returns are the stupid ones. Nobody should ever report a high income -- the more you report the more uncle sam takes. The smart guys who are doing really well have good accountants so that the their taxable income is much less than what they really make each year. a good accountant knows all the loopholes and can legally and potentially save you tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars. whoever boast a high income and report it as such on their return are just boasting and stupid. thats why people don't want to tell you how much they make!! along the same line I would never drive my bmw to my office cause if patients see this it turns them off.

anyways bottom line is as far as my experience -- general dentist would probably start at around 95 - 140k, specialists from 120 - 180k. and then this amount increases once start getting smart and open your own office in a good location where there is need and not much competition (this is where you may have to decide on sacrificing lifestyle of big or coastal city but make more cash or small boonie town but make tons of cash type of decision -- theres always a happy medium ).

MD wanna be's (oral surgeons) make the most -- then the finger masturbators (endodontist) --- then the wire benders (orthodontists) --- then the "i love kids who scream all the time" dentists - who by the way wish they were orthodontists - who by the way are also called pedodontist but they hate being called this and would rather be called pediatric dentist are next in the salary department, then come the glorified hygienists (periodontist) who don't make enough money so they have to include implants in their job description are next, then the self-induced torture of continuing fixed prostodontics- for another 2-3 yr dentist (prosthodontist) who apparently has to do general dentistry anyways because why would a general dentist refer bread and butter crowns and bridges to them i don't understand --- they are next. but anyways --- not scientific but they all make enough money.

hope that helps for all who want to know. i don't profess that all this is fact but its my personal experience as an orthodontist who have been out for 4 yrs now.

P.S. --- anyone considering orthodontic education company (OEC), don't even go there. YOU ARE SERIOUSLY MAKING A HUGE MISTAKE --- you will be an indentured servant for seven years. for a guy who is a shark and wants to eat all you little innocent ortho hungry neophytes.

later

 

[northcity]

I do not know where you got your stats, but they are somewhat off and depend on your personal skills and relationships not the specialty you are in. First off Endodontists make much more than the majority of Oral Surgeons, pretty much anywhere you go, secod i know alot!! of pedodontist that make much more than Orthodontists, not saying that ortho makes less than pedo beause the majority of ortho's make more. Also the richest dentist i know is a periodontist, who nets a sick amount of money. Periodontist are much more than "glorified hygenist's" they are surgeons, and have the best ability of handling tissue in esthetic cases and implants, plus are in the forefront of tissue regeneration and tooth buds. Before putting down diff. professions, make sure you get your facts staright, because a one may call a perio "glorified hygenist", while many people say ortho are wire benders who have little clinical skill since they dont do surgery injections, etcc...(which I do not agree with, as some of my freinds are orthodontist's and have the best personalities).

I agree that once you get out thats the only time you'll know really exactly how much you're going to make. This process however takes a couple of years because once you get out the main thing you're trying to do is learn your craft - perfecting your skills - learning all the new and current techniques (thats not taught in dental school) and going to continuing ed courses -- then once you get out there talk to cohorts, established dentist,specialists, etc., and compare between being an associate (least pay - slave labor), junior partner (better but still slave to senior partner), your own office (best, but if your starting out -- your poor due to loans so your slave to bankers and such), only when you have your own practice 5 years or more, in good location, get involved in community, and have good reputation, good knowledge of elective (cosmetic) techniques, and treat people well, and of course deliver with excellent treatment results will you reach the critical mass of being a successful dentist and you have potential to make lots of cash - and with investments and good partnering with financial advisors and accountants -- you can make 7 figures and retire in 10 yrs (so thats total 15 if you count building your practice for 5 yrs. or more). yes thats 7 figures, of course, thats before taxes, still thats where your accountants come in --- they will keep you away from being in the 40 percentile tax bracket. If you guys really want to know, those that report a high income in their tax returns are the stupid ones. Nobody should ever report a high income -- the more you report the more uncle sam takes. The smart guys who are doing really well have good accountants so that the their taxable income is much less than what they really make each year. a good accountant knows all the loopholes and can legally and potentially save you tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars. whoever boast a high income and report it as such on their return are just boasting and stupid. thats why people don't want to tell you how much they make!! along the same line I would never drive my bmw to my office cause if patients see this it turns them off.

anyways bottom line is as far as my experience -- general dentist would probably start at around 95 - 140k, specialists from 120 - 180k. and then this amount increases once start getting smart and open your own office in a good location where there is need and not much competition (this is where you may have to decide on sacrificing lifestyle of big or coastal city but make more cash or small boonie town but make tons of cash type of decision -- theres always a happy medium ).

MD wanna be's (oral surgeons) make the most -- then the finger masturbators (endodontist) --- then the wire benders (orthodontists) --- then the "i love kids who scream all the time" dentists - who by the way wish they were orthodontists - who by the way are also called pedodontist but they hate being called this and would rather be called pediatric dentist are next in the salary department, then come the glorified hygienists (periodontist) who don't make enough money so they have to include implants in their job description are next, then the self-induced torture of continuing fixed prostodontics- for another 2-3 yr dentist (prosthodontist) who apparently has to do general dentistry anyways because why would a general dentist refer bread and butter crowns and bridges to them i don't understand --- they are next. but anyways --- not scientific but they all make enough money.

hope that helps for all who want to know. i don't profess that all this is fact but its my personal experience as an orthodontist who have been out for 4 yrs now.

P.S. --- anyone considering orthodontic education company (OEC), don't even go there. YOU ARE SERIOUSLY MAKING A HUGE MISTAKE --- you will be an indentured servant for seven years. for a guy who is a shark and wants to eat all you little innocent ortho hungry neophytes.

later

 

[captaintripps]

I agree that once you get out thats the only time you'll know really exactly how much you're going to make. This process however takes a couple of years because once you get out the main thing you're trying to do is learn your craft - perfecting your skills - learning all the new and current techniques (thats not taught in dental school) and going to continuing ed courses -- then once you get out there talk to cohorts, established dentist,specialists, etc., and compare between being an associate (least pay - slave labor), junior partner (better but still slave to senior partner), your own office (best, but if your starting out -- your poor due to loans so your slave to bankers and such), only when you have your own practice 5 years or more, in good location, get involved in community, and have good reputation, good knowledge of elective (cosmetic) techniques, and treat people well, and of course deliver with excellent treatment results will you reach the critical mass of being a successful dentist and you have potential to make lots of cash - and with investments and good partnering with financial advisors and accountants -- you can make 7 figures and retire in 10 yrs (so thats total 15 if you count building your practice for 5 yrs. or more). yes thats 7 figures, of course, thats before taxes, still thats where your accountants come in --- they will keep you away from being in the 40 percentile tax bracket. If you guys really want to know, those that report a high income in their tax returns are the stupid ones. Nobody should ever report a high income -- the more you report the more uncle sam takes. The smart guys who are doing really well have good accountants so that the their taxable income is much less than what they really make each year. a good accountant knows all the loopholes and can legally and potentially save you tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars. whoever boast a high income and report it as such on their return are just boasting and stupid. thats why people don't want to tell you how much they make!! along the same line I would never drive my bmw to my office cause if patients see this it turns them off.

anyways bottom line is as far as my experience -- general dentist would probably start at around 95 - 140k, specialists from 120 - 180k. and then this amount increases once start getting smart and open your own office in a good location where there is need and not much competition (this is where you may have to decide on sacrificing lifestyle of big or coastal city but make more cash or small boonie town but make tons of cash type of decision -- theres always a happy medium ).

MD wanna be's (oral surgeons) make the most -- then the finger masturbators (endodontist) --- then the wire benders (orthodontists) --- then the "i love kids who scream all the time" dentists - who by the way wish they were orthodontists - who by the way are also called pedodontist but they hate being called this and would rather be called pediatric dentist are next in the salary department, then come the glorified hygienists (periodontist) who don't make enough money so they have to include implants in their job description are next, then the self-induced torture of continuing fixed prostodontics- for another 2-3 yr dentist (prosthodontist) who apparently has to do general dentistry anyways because why would a general dentist refer bread and butter crowns and bridges to them i don't understand --- they are next. but anyways --- not scientific but they all make enough money.

hope that helps for all who want to know. i don't profess that all this is fact but its my personal experience as an orthodontist who have been out for 4 yrs now.

P.S. --- anyone considering orthodontic education company (OEC), don't even go there. YOU ARE SERIOUSLY MAKING A HUGE MISTAKE --- you will be an indentured servant for seven years. for a guy who is a shark and wants to eat all you little innocent ortho hungry neophytes.

later

That's a lousy post.

 

[drPheta]

I chuckled while reading it. I admit, it seems off, and it isn't coherent. However, the point I got from this post is EVERYONE NEEDS TO STOP WORRYING ABOUT SALARY!!!!!!!

How much do general dentists make? A lot!
How much do oral surgeons make? A freaking lot!
How much do orthodontists make? A hell of a lot!
How much do peds make? On average, more than GPs!
How much do prosthodontists make? A lot!
How much do periodontists make? A whole lot!
What's the endodontist rake in? A boat load. Nuff said.

Somehow, someway, you're gonna make a lot, and the hierarchy of the list of who makes more will flip around depending on who's in the field, who's telling exactly how much they make, and how good and efficient that person is.

 

[J2AZ]

Based on my knowledge and talk with friends....an oral surgeon can pull in over 500k a year...an associate in an endo group will take home about 30 to 35% of their gross and a partner in an endo group will generally take home 40 to 45% of their gross. So, how much you work and your clinical skills determine your income. For endo you can gross about 40 to 50K a month starting out so you take home from 144K to 210K a year. Once you have your speed up and become a partner you can gross between 70 and 100k a month and thus take home between 336 and 540k a year. Ortho and perio will generally make around the same. As others have stated that it fluctuates based on experience and the location of your practice. They are right. GPs can also make a boat load. Where I work the dentists are not money hungry and deliver quality care at a very reasonable market price. They pay the entire staff very well and offer benefits and raises. Their yearly collections (dentists only) are about 1.3 million. I figure they take home about 30 to 35% of that. One thing you should remember is that your staff makes your practice. Treat them well, pay them well, give them benefits and raises. You will still do ok.

 

[joel4sale]

PHETA got it right oN! 👍

 

[predentchick]

I tried to find this on a search but couldn't. Why is it that "pediatric dentists" make more than GP? What are they doing that drives up their income?

 

[DrTacoElf]

I tried to find this on a search but couldn't. Why is it that "pediatric dentists" make more than GP? What are they doing that drives up their income?

Harder cases clearly, maybe they charge more on average?

 

[toothcaries]

I tried to find this on a search but couldn't. Why is it that "pediatric dentists" make more than GP? What are they doing that drives up their income?

pedo is a volume specialty...i don't know where "harder procedures" came from.
the procedures are simple and straight forward.

also, you wouldn't go into pediatrics expecting to make a few extra coins.

 

[DrTacoElf]

pedo is a volume specialty...i don't know where "harder procedures" came from.

Dr: Please open your mouth
Patient:
Parents (In operatory) 😡
Dr:

 

[ItsGavinC]

pedo is a volume specialty...i don't know where "harder procedures" came from.
the procedures are simple and straight forward.

The procedures are simple and straightforward, but patient compliance often isn't.

 

[River13]

pretty much they do lots of pulpotomy/ssc combos, and charge handsomely for them = good income

 

[atlanta478]

I tried to find this on a search but couldn't. Why is it that "pediatric dentists" make more than GP? What are they doing that drives up their income?

California has the ?Western Dental? (dental copy of the ?McDonalds?) offices. Try to call them. WD pays Pedo 2.5 ? 3 times more than GP. In some area they pay Pedo more than Ortho.

 

[dort-ort]

California has the ?Western Dental? (dental copy of the ?McDonalds?) offices. Try to call them. WD pays Pedo 2.5 ? 3 times more than GP. In some area they pay Pedo more than Ortho.

Thank you atlanta478. There is much misconception out there. Many feel that ortho do well financially. This is wrong. Ortho sucks compared to the other specialties as far as income. Endo to name one.

 

[north2southOMFS]

I do not know where you got your stats, but they are somewhat off and depend on your personal skills and relationships not the specialty you are in. First off Endodontists make much more than the majority of Oral Surgeons, pretty much anywhere you go, secod i know alot!! of pedodontist that make much more than Orthodontists, not saying that ortho makes less than pedo beause the majority of ortho's make more. Also the richest dentist i know is a periodontist, who nets a sick amount of money. Periodontist are much more than "glorified hygenist's" they are surgeons, and have the best ability of handling tissue in esthetic cases and implants, plus are in the forefront of tissue regeneration and tooth buds. Before putting down diff. professions, make sure you get your facts staright, because a one may call a perio "glorified hygenist", while many people say ortho are wire benders who have little clinical skill since they dont do surgery injections, etcc...(which I do not agree with, as some of my freinds are orthodontist's and have the best personalities).

"Perio Surgeons, best ability to handle esthetic cases and implants"..........hahahahah, forefront of "toothbuds" ......another knee slapper.



Ya, toothbuds pal.

 

[northcity]

Sorry you find that so hilarious, but the sad thing is, talk to any general dentist, and ask who they will refer the majority of tissue cases regarding esthetics, and who they will refer their cases regarding pdl stem cells (when they are available), etcc... to. Periodontists! Its just hilarious to me that pompass oral surgeons think they are all knowing (hence the lower number of referals for these type of procedures). Also look at who's throwing hissy fits b/c periodontists and general dentists are taking their sweet little implants away from them, guess you are all not what you think you are. Sorry for the mean message, but have respect for your other colleagues. also if you knew everything about dentistry then you would realize that "toothbuds" are very real and not to far away, or i guess since i've done years of research on this, i must be making it up.

"Perio Surgeons, best ability to handle esthetic cases and implants"..........hahahahah, forefront of "toothbuds" ......another knee slapper.



Ya, toothbuds pal.

 

[dort-ort]

Sorry you find that so hilarious, but the sad thing is, talk to any general dentist, and ask who they will refer the majority of tissue cases regarding esthetics, and who they will refer their cases regarding pdl stem cells (when they are available), etcc... to. Periodontists! Its just hilarious to me that pompass oral surgeons think they are all knowing (hence the lower number of referals for these type of procedures). Also look at who's throwing hissy fits b/c periodontists and general dentists are taking their sweet little implants away from them, guess you are all not what you think you are. Sorry for the mean message, but have respect for your other colleagues. also if you knew everything about dentistry then you would realize that "toothbuds" are very real and not to far away, or i guess since i've done years of research on this, i must be making it up.

You tell 'em northcity. I agree with you. Perio guys are some of the nicest colleagues I have.

 

[northcity]

thanks Dort-Ort, I did not want to sound mean but we are all in the same wonderful profession,and there should not be a hiearchy amognst us. When it all comes down to it general dentists are the ones who are the most important.

You tell 'em northcity. I agree with you. Perio guys are some of the nicest colleagues I have.

 

[north2southOMFS]

Toothbuds.....!!!

What the hell? When did we all the sudden jump like 100 years into the future and start putting in toothbuds? What do you just pick up the dental instruments/supplies catalog and "Yes, I'll take 12 #8's, 15 #9's, 4 #13's, and a #16 just for kicks so the pt. will have to have it taken out again by me?" Or is this something that will be sold over the counter at walgreens next to the crest white strips and do-it-yourself mouthguards. It's like a rednecks dream! " A whole new set a toofs!" Sorry pal, haven't sold me on your "superior tissue esthetics" and "PDL stem cells" -whereever you pulled that phrase from. The only difference between a flap reflected by a periodontist and an oral surgeon is that the oral surgeon won't be running a half hour late after the procedure.

If you've done all the years of research where is it in the literature bucko?

 

[Smilemaker100]

I chuckled while reading it. I admit, it seems off, and it isn't coherent. However, the point I got from this post is EVERYONE NEEDS TO STOP WORRYING ABOUT SALARY!!!!!!!

How much do general dentists make? A lot!
How much do oral surgeons make? A freaking lot!
How much do orthodontists make? A hell of a lot!
How much do peds make? On average, more than GPs!
How much do prosthodontists make? A lot!
How much do periodontists make? A whole lot!
What's the endodontist rake in? A boat load. Nuff said.

Somehow, someway, you're gonna make a lot, and the hierarchy of the list of who makes more will flip around depending on who's in the field, who's telling exactly how much they make, and how good and efficient that person is.

Amen! Exactly my sentiments! There is MORE to life than earning a lot of money! Try to find happiness in the "little things" in life...like a baby's smile, the first rose of spring, your mom's meals, your health...life is too short to bitch about who is earning the most bucks! You won't take your money with you when you die- LIVE NOW! Worry about money only when you really really have to.

There are people in third world countries who earn just enough to cover their basic needs and are probably happier than the wealthiest people in the world!!!!

 

[northcity]

a perfect example of your lack of dental knowledge, b/c you are too consumed believing you are the best. Pdl stem cells= JADA Vol. 135 Sep 2004,. Toothbuds been researching for awhile, dont worry about this though b/c you wont be gettin to much of these referrals. Superior tissue esthetics, dont see too many oral surgeons lecturing about this or doing a majority of tissue grafts. and actually when talking about a flap reflected in the anterior region the only diff b/t SOME Omfs(Like yourself) and periodontist, is that the periodontist will be cleaning up the omfs crap!

Toothbuds.....!!!

What the hell? When did we all the sudden jump like 100 years into the future and start putting in toothbuds? What do you just pick up the dental instruments/supplies catalog and "Yes, I'll take 12 #8's, 15 #9's, 4 #13's, and a #16 just for kicks so the pt. will have to have it taken out again by me?" Or is this something that will be sold over the counter at walgreens next to the crest white strips and do-it-yourself mouthguards. It's like a rednecks dream! " A whole new set a toofs!" Sorry pal, haven't sold me on your "superior tissue esthetics" and "PDL stem cells" -whereever you pulled that phrase from. The only difference between a flap reflected by a periodontist and an oral surgeon is that the oral surgeon won't be running a half hour late after the procedure.

 

[Smilemaker100]

your posts reminded me of this old story..
http://www.clean-funny.com/Hilariou...-capitalist-advice-mexican-fisherman-ipo.html


An internationally renowned venture capitalist from Hong Kong was vacationing at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village. A couple hours before lunch time, he noticed a small boat with just one fisherman docked nearby. Inside the small boat were several large yellow fin tuna. The venture capitalist complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican Jose replied, only a little while. The venture capitalist, Mr. Wang, then asked why didn't he stay out longer and catch more fish?

Jose said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs. Wang asked what he did with the rest of his day.

The fisherman Jose said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, and take a siesta with my wife. Some nights, I stroll into the village and play guitar with my amigos. We entertain the children with stories and songs. Some evenings my wife and I help at our church."

Mr. Wang offered, "I have an MBA from Harvard and could help. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a larger boat. With the proceeds from a larger boat you could buy several more boats. Eventually, you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman, you could sell directly to the processor and open your own cannery. With my advice on marketing, you would ultimately control the supply of product, processing, and distribution."

Mr. Wang continued, "Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City in order to manage the growing fleet. After you open the cannery, you would then need to move to Los Angeles to manage and coordinate the marketing and distribution."

Jose asked, "How long will all this take?"

Mr. Wang replied, "Fifteen to twenty years."

"What then?", asked Jose.

Mr. Wang laughed and said, "That's the best part. When the time is right you would relocate your growing empire to Hong Kong or London, announce an IPO, sell your company's stock to the public, and become very rich. You would make millions."

"Millions? Then what?", the Mexican asked again.

"Then you could retire," Mr. Wang replied, "move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta with your wife, and stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play guitar with your amigos."

The Navajo Native Americans have a saying: "A man can't get rich if he takes proper care of his family."

Thanks for that enlightening story toothcaries 😀 . I used to postpone my happiness like a lot of people and tell myself:...when I get into dental school, I will be happy, when I finish dental school I will be happy, when I finish paying my student loans , I will be happy, when I meet my soul mate, I'll be happy etc...I am presently doing my residency and a few events over the years have awakened me to my life (such as the death of a boy I loved very very deeply) and made me realize how I have caught the North American "disease" of "postponing happiness". It seems to me that a lot of people forget how short and fragile life is...I remind myself of that everyday because I don't know how long I will live- so I try to suck the marrow of life as much as I can each day- to the best of my abilities- albeit,not all days are happy ones.

It seems to me that in Europe, people work to live whereas in North America, people live to work- it is quite sad. LIVE NOW!!!!!!!BE HAPPY NOW!!!! If you keep postponing happiness, you may die before you see the day that you achieved such and such goal or dream. One must have a "joie de vivre" every day for all the little things in life...the little things count the most. We are only given one day at a time, tomorrow is promised to no one.

 

[north2southOMFS]

a perfect example of your lack of dental knowledge, b/c you are too consumed believing you are the best. Pdl stem cells= JADA Vol. 135 Sep 2004,. Toothbuds been researching for awhile, dont worry about this though b/c you wont be gettin to much of these referrals. Superior tissue esthetics, dont see too many oral surgeons lecturing about this or doing a majority of tissue grafts. and actually when talking about a flap reflected in the anterior region the only diff b/t SOME Omfs(Like yourself) and periodontist, is that the periodontist will be cleaning up the omfs crap!

Sorry, I haven't read the latest edition of JADA. I still vow to eat this post if toothbuds ever actually become a reality that clinicians routinely use to restore? regrow? teeth. If the science is there I have a feeling we will be growing livers and hearts and lungs long before teeth.

 

[northcity]

hopefully, dont mean to be rude, just stating some facts, as a future periodontist i know there will be things i will need the services of an omfs, and i hope vice-versa. sorry if i insulted you anyway.

Sorry, I haven't read the latest edition of JADA. I still vow to eat this post if toothbuds ever actually become a reality that clinicians routinely use to restore? regrow? teeth. If the science is there I have a feeling we will be growing livers and hearts and lungs long before teeth.

 

[dort-ort]

Sorry, I haven't read the latest edition of JADA. I still vow to eat this post if toothbuds ever actually become a reality that clinicians routinely use to restore? regrow? teeth. If the science is there I have a feeling we will be growing livers and hearts and lungs long before teeth.

Yes your comment may be true. However it is shallow and myopic. If we are in the profession of dentistry, why would we be doing research in hearts and lungs. I am sure there's more funding in those areas ("hearts and lungs") however there is enough for dental research also---hence NIDCR. So don't knock toothbud research. By the way -- you should look into evidence based dentistry -- you may find that it involves research. Something you clearly don't seem to value.

 

[dort-ort]

hopefully, dont mean to be rude, just stating some facts, as a future periodontist i know there will be things i will need the services of an omfs, and i hope vice-versa. sorry if i insulted you anyway.

Don't apologize for your convictions. There will always be those that are blinded by the hole their mind is buried in. If they can't find the light switch let your opinions lead them. If not let them stay in their narrow and dark world.

 

[UNLV OMS GUNNABE]

Having spent the summer doing research at the Forsyth institute in Boston where a lot of "toothbud" research is happening I just had to chime in on this one. If you guys think anything with toothbuds will be happening soon (in the next 10 years), you're sorely mistaken.

 

[aphistis]

Oh yeah? Well I heard that periodontists can pee further than surgeons, so I think that resolves the issue pretty conclusively.

 

[north2southOMFS]

Allright, I read your PDL stem cell article and it has like nothing to do with toothbuds right now. Keep reachin'

 

[drPheta]

Oh boy, you guys are too much. What happened to professional courtesy? It seems like OMS guys get picked on way too much, picked on by ENT, Plastics, Perio... who else?

 

[northcity]

i never said it had to do anthing with toothbuds, i was talking about pdl research as a seprate entity.

Allright, I read your PDL stem cell article and it has like nothing to do with toothbuds right now. Keep reachin'

 

[omsres]

i never said it had to do anthing with toothbuds, i was talking about pdl research as a seprate entity.

I think its so hilarious that so many people on this forum love to bash omfs for whatever reason. Why is it percieved that all OMSs mutilate soft tissues with every procedure? We are taught gentle handling of soft tissues as a basic concept of any surgery. Do any of you guys realize the skill it takes to reflect the nasal mucosa during a LeFort I, or to make the cuts and dissection involved in a transconjunctival approach to the orbital floor. I can tell you that these tissues are a hell of a lot more delicate and friable than attached gingiva, and don't have the regenerating capacity of it either. Believe me that most all oral surgeons can and do handle intraoral soft tissues just as well or better than a periodontist. Periodontists only do about 5 - 10 different procedures anyway so it understandable why they take half and hour to elevate the exact same flap as I can in 15 seconds. The bottom line is that both specialists are perfectly capable in placing implants and doing intraoral soft tissue procedures in the mouth. It is my "opinion" that OMSs will have more skill due that vast amount of surgical expertise we have with handling tissues all over the body, as well as superior management of medically compromised patients.

It makes me wonder why dental students have a lot of opinions on which specialty is best for which procedures. I recall in dental school that the periodontists tried influence us as students that they were superior in the realm of implant placement due to their superior handling of the soft tissue and their knowledge of the periodontium. I even found my self believing this during my 3rd year of dental school. So I think a lot of you guys are having your opinions given to you by your instuctors rather than seeing for your self and considering other variables in what makes who the ideal specialists to refer implants. When you get out you must consider surgical skill, follow-up, knowledge of the procedure, and who you like the best. If that's a periodontist then fine. But don't have your mind made up before you graduate.

I can see why periodontists are trying to corner the market on implants, because for the most part they can't get patients to comply with treatment recommendations to make an impact on their periodontal disease. I don't blame them, seems like your fighting an uphill battle.

 

[northcity]

good post, i think that it all depends on who the general dentist and patient feel comfortable with. I believe that oral surgeons do have have more surgical expertise b/c they do much more variety of surgical procedures, although in terms of everyday surgeries (grafts, soft tissue, perio plastics)perio has the edge due to that it is pretty much what they do all day. Im going into perio next year so that is why my post are directed at perio, although i respect and admire oral surgeons very mcuh, have somefriends who are currently residents.

I think its so hilarious that so many people on this forum love to bash omfs for whatever reason. Why is it percieved that all OMSs mutilate soft tissues with every procedure? We are taught gentle handling of soft tissues as a basic concept of any surgery. Do any of you guys realize the skill it takes to reflect the nasal mucosa during a LeFort I, or to make the cuts and dissection involved in a transconjunctival approach to the orbital floor. I can tell you that these tissues are a hell of a lot more delicate and friable than attached gingiva, and don't have the regenerating capacity of it either. Believe me that most all oral surgeons can and do handle intraoral soft tissues just as well or better than a periodontist. Periodontists only do about 5 - 10 different procedures anyway so it understandable why they take half and hour to elevate the exact same flap as I can in 15 seconds. The bottom line is that both specialists are perfectly capable in placing implants and doing intraoral soft tissue procedures in the mouth. It is my "opinion" that OMSs will have more skill due that vast amount of surgical expertise we have with handling tissues all over the body, as well as superior management of medically compromised patients.

It makes me wonder why dental students have a lot of opinions on which specialty is best for which procedures. I recall in dental school that the periodontists tried influence us as students that they were superior in the realm of implant placement due to their superior handling of the soft tissue and their knowledge of the periodontium. I even found my self believing this during my 3rd year of dental school. So I think a lot of you guys are having your opinions given to you by your instuctors rather than seeing for your self and considering other variables in what makes who the ideal specialists to refer implants. When you get out you must consider surgical skill, follow-up, knowledge of the procedure, and who you like the best. If that's a periodontist then fine. But don't have your mind made up before you graduate.

I can see why periodontists are trying to corner the market on implants, because for the most part they can't get patients to comply with treatment recommendations to make an impact on their periodontal disease. I don't blame them, seems like your fighting an uphill battle.

 

[joel4sale]

I would be in such a deep **** if I can't refer.....

It make so much difference that knowing I can send my patient to someone that can clean up for me....Rather than "I GOT GET THIS DONE!!".......

I don't refer often (besides perio/ortho)......But, when I refer, I felt like to attach a Thank You card with the patient......Save me hours of time trying to grind that damn long ankylosed root out, or trying to calm the 150 lb 8 yrs old that is ready to destroy your operatory.........Sure, I can do it if I have to, but that would make my life much shorter.

Just say the magic word, and all will be good..........."REFER!!"

So, No, not everyone here bash pedo/OMS/endo etc etc............I think they are worst every penny.. 👍

 

[drillerNfiller]

Toothbuds.....!!!

What the hell? When did we all the sudden jump like 100 years into the future and start putting in toothbuds? What do you just pick up the dental instruments/supplies catalog and "Yes, I'll take 12 #8's, 15 #9's, 4 #13's, and a #16 just for kicks so the pt. will have to have it taken out again by me?" Or is this something that will be sold over the counter at walgreens next to the crest white strips and do-it-yourself mouthguards. It's like a rednecks dream! " A whole new set a toofs!" Sorry pal, haven't sold me on your "superior tissue esthetics" and "PDL stem cells" -whereever you pulled that phrase from. The only difference between a flap reflected by a periodontist and an oral surgeon is that the oral surgeon won't be running a half hour late after the procedure.

If you've done all the years of research where is it in the literature bucko?

here is some lit:

Prospects for tooth regeneration in the 21st century: a perspective.
Chai Y, Slavkin HC.

Microsc Res Tech. 2003 Apr 1;60(5):469-79.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12619122&dopt=Abstract


Tooth regeneration will someday be a real possiblity and many who are on the forefront of this research are periodontists. It's not like its going to happen tommorrow, but very likely within our careers.


Here is another article in which tooth bud cells have already been successfully used to regenerate tooth tissues in rats

Bioengineered teeth from cultured rat tooth bud cells.

Duailibi MT, Duailibi SE, Young CS, Bartlett JD, Vacanti JP, Yelick PC.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15218040

and a few more for good measure...

Stem-cell-based tissue engineering of murine teeth.

Ohazama A, Modino SA, Miletich I, Sharpe PT.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15218039

Tooth tissue engineering and regeneration--a translational vision!

Smith AJ.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15218038


Go perio.