Dental School - 4th Cycle Re-Applicant

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DMDDDSHopeful

DMDDDSHopeful

Achievement Unlocked: Dental School
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Hi all,

Looking for some advice or feedback. What schools should I look into applying this time that would give me the best shot at finally getting in? My stats are below (I won't get into too much detail, maybe if I get in then I can tell my story or something as motivation for others):

uGPA: 3.5, gGPA: 3.9
DAT: 19 AA/22 RC/19 PAT/nothing under 17
Shadowing: Spent 1 Entire Summer shadowing; Shadowing on/off for 4 years
Volunteering: Hundreds of hours with direct volunteering, indirect volunteering, leadership activities, etc.
Research: Years of research; have won awards; 2 publications
Work: Tutor, TA, Teacher, Scientist

This is my 4th cycle applying. Last year I applied to 25 schools and got 1 interview. Funding this expensive process myself. I've applied to places such as LECOM, Roseman, WesternU, NYU, Rutgers, etc. My feedback from schools that have rejected me stated things from retake the DAT (only 2 schools said that) to increasing my volunteering.
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I'm guessing Rutgers was one of them that asked you to retake the DAT?
Since this is your fourth cycle I'm assuming that you've had an expired DAT score? Maybe your retake was just not good enough
And as tot he volunteering, dude you have hundreds of hours. Many people get in with less than 100. So that's extremely weird.
 
Likkriue said:
I'm guessing Rutgers was one of them that asked you to retake the DAT?
Since this is your fourth cycle I'm assuming that you've had an expired DAT score? Maybe your retake was just not good enough
And as tot he volunteering, dude you have hundreds of hours. Many people get in with less than 100. So that's extremely weird.
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Yes, I need a 22 to be considered for an interview and I retook my expired DAT in 2015 and got the 19AA/22RC/19PAT.
 
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DMDDDSHopeful said:
Yes, I need a 22 to be considered for an interview and I retook my expired DAT in 2015 and got the 19AA/22RC/19PAT.
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All I can say is hopefully they take notice of your determination and it will help this cycle. Im at a loss at how you've gotten passed over this many times now. Rutgers AA average is 22 for 2015 so that means half the class potentially has below a 22.
 
What was your dat score before? I am trying to figure out what the hell could you have done so wrong to only land 1 interview with that GPA. gGPA of 3.9, do you mean sGPA?
Unless your previous DAT scores were horrendous, then other reasons could be your indecisiveness if you haven't shown enough interest in dentistry (i.e if you had a lot of pre-med or pre-pharm activities, and all of a sudden, bam, you changed). Or if your PS was lackluster.


how old are your pre-reqs and how did you do in them? upward trend in GPA? downward? inconsistent?
 
1passbbsSHAVE said:
What was your dat score before? I am trying to figure out what the hell could you have done so wrong to only land 1 interview with that GPA. gGPA of 3.9, do you mean sGPA?
Unless your previous DAT scores were horrendous, then other reasons could be your indecisiveness if you haven't shown enough interest in dentistry (i.e if you had a lot of pre-med or pre-pharm activities, and all of a sudden, bam, you changed). Or if your PS was lackluster.


how old are your pre-reqs and how did you do in them? upward trend in GPA? downward? inconsistent?
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uGPA for undergrad; gGPA for graduate. Graduate degree was all hard sciences. I'm not sure how 4 years of applying to dentistry shows lack of interest, but could be a valid point. I had taken the DAT three times and improved each time with the 3rd being a 19AA. Pre-reqs are older than 5 years at this point, but I did A's and B's in them. Significant upward trend; beginning of my academic career was not spectacular and then I ended University with a 3.5 average GPA in my BS and Graduate GPA of 3.9 in my MS.
 
Well something is off then because with that GPA and a 19AA, you should have gotten interviews at least somewhere?
 
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DMDDDSHopeful said:
uGPA for undergrad; gGPA for graduate. Graduate degree was all hard sciences. I'm not sure how 4 years of applying to dentistry shows lack of interest, but could be a valid point. I had taken the DAT three times and improved each time with the 3rd being a 19AA. Pre-reqs are older than 5 years at this point, but I did A's and B's in them. Significant upward trend; beginning of my academic career was not spectacular and then I ended University with a 3.5 average GPA in my BS and Graduate GPA of 3.9 in my MS.
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your response just made it even more unbelievable. 3.5 uGPA is pretty good, and you did even better on your grad. DAT is not the rock star kind of a score, but coupled with those GPA, can't believe you only landed 1 interview.
 
Did you ever call the schools that rejected and ask what to improve or were there any red flags on your app?
 
With those scores, I'm confident you'll get it this year. Who said you need a 22 to be considered for an interview with stats like that?
 
schmoob said:
With those scores, I'm confident you'll get it this year. Who said you need a 22 to be considered for an interview with stats like that?
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this can be an overstatement. nothing is guaranteed or sure way in dental admission

one thing OP does not tell you guys is his sGPA (undergrad sGPA, overall sGPA that has grad sGPA in it) and his scores on the previous attempts on the DAT.

I rather take a 19AA and 3.5 that do that in 4 years rather than a 3.5 GPA and get a 19AA in the third time.
 
frozenicecreamDMD said:
this can be an overstatement. nothing is guaranteed or sure way in dental admission

one thing OP does not tell you guys is his sGPA (undergrad sGPA, overall sGPA that has grad sGPA in it) and his scores on the previous attempts on the DAT.

I rather take a 19AA and 3.5 that do that in 4 years rather than a 3.5 GPA and get a 19AA in the third time.
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Well if that's the case, then Abe Lincoln should've never become President. He did not get into office after 4 times trying, right? It took his 5th time to be successful. Sure, we all love to be successful in the first shot, but that's not a reality for everyone. A lot of people who are competitive just simply don't get in because of the sheer numbers. Sometimes it's luck of the draw. One admissions told me that and said not to change anything and reapply again as batch one.

As far as my undergrad, my BCP was 3.10. It wasn't high, hence, I did a graduate degree and a thesis and had scholarships (gGPA ended in 3.9). My upward trend is probably the highest you can ever hope for going from low low to ending with a 4.0 in advanced courses. I never liked basic sciences and never did well; I only did well when it was an advanced course. For example, I got a C for Chem I and an A in Chem II--which required taking the ACS exam.

Standardized exams are not my thing when it comes to basic sciences too. First time I did not study, second time I studied a little more with budget tools, third time I studied more but had a very demanding job with 10-12 hour workdays.

What I dislike are when schools say they are reviewing holistically and that they review everything, but definitely does not show in my case. I had a rejection from one school with the generic blurb of "We highly suggest completing a post-bacc degree that leads to a MS or obtaining relevant work-life experience."

All in all, considering I completed a Masters w/ thesis at a 3.9 GPA, volunteering hours, 2 publications as an author, 19AA, years of research, few awards, Dean's list a few semesters, leadership roles, teaching experience, and work in a scientific sector, what else should I do? My shadowing hours are excessive and I've shadowed a general dentist and a periodontist.

Anyone know what school would be my best shot that I may not have listed? Here is my list:

Arizona School of Dentistry and Oral Health (AZ)
Midwestern University College of Dental Medicine-Arizona (MWU)
Western University of Health Sciences College of Dental Medicine (WESTU)
Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine School of Dental Medicine (LECOM-FL)
Nova Southeastern University College of Dental Medicine (NSU)
University of Florida College of Dentistry (FLA)
Midwestern University College of Dental Medicine-Illinois (MWU-IL)
University of Kentucky College of Dentistry (UK)
University of Louisville School of Dentistry (UL)
Louisiana State University School of Dentistry (LSU) LA
University of Maryland School of Dentistry (MYD)
University of New England College of Dental Medicine (UNE)
University of Missouri Kansas City School of Dentistry (UMKC)
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Dentistry (UNC)
Creighton University School of Dentistry (CRE)
Rutgers School of Dental Medicine (RSDM)
Roseman University of Health Sciences College of Dental Medicine (USN)
Marquette University School of Dentistry (MQT)
West Virginia University School of Dentistry (WVA)

I will probably remove Rutgers considering they said not to apply without a 22.
 
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DMDDDSHopeful said:
Well if that's the case, then Abe Lincoln should've never become President. He did not get into office after 4 times trying, right? It took his 5th time to be successful. Sure, we all love to be successful in the first shot, but that's not a reality for everyone. A lot of people who are competitive just simply don't get in because of the sheer numbers. Sometimes it's luck of the draw. One admissions told me that and said not to change anything and reapply again as batch one.

As far as my undergrad, my BCP was 3.10. It wasn't high, hence, I did a graduate degree and a thesis and had scholarships (gGPA ended in 3.9). My upward trend is probably the highest you can ever hope for going from low low to ending with a 4.0 in advanced courses. I never liked basic sciences and never did well; I only did well when it was an advanced course. For example, I got a C for Chem I and an A in Chem II--which required taking the ACS exam.

Standardized exams are not my thing when it comes to basic sciences too. First time I did not study, second time I studied a little more with budget tools, third time I studied more but had a very demanding job with 10-12 hour workdays.

What I dislike are when schools say they are reviewing holistically and that they review everything, but definitely does not show in my case. I had a rejection from one school with the generic blurb of "We highly suggest completing a post-bacc degree that leads to a MS or obtaining relevant work-life experience."

All in all, considering I completed a Masters w/ thesis at a 3.9 GPA, volunteering hours, 2 publications as an author, 19AA, years of research, few awards, Dean's list a few semesters, leadership roles, teaching experience, and work in a scientific sector, what else should I do? My shadowing hours are excessive and I've shadowed a general dentist and a periodontist.

Anyone know what school would be my best shot that I may not have listed? Here is my list:

Arizona School of Dentistry and Oral Health (AZ)
Midwestern University College of Dental Medicine-Arizona (MWU)
Western University of Health Sciences College of Dental Medicine (WESTU)
Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine School of Dental Medicine (LECOM-FL)
Nova Southeastern University College of Dental Medicine (NSU)
University of Florida College of Dentistry (FLA)
Midwestern University College of Dental Medicine-Illinois (MWU-IL)
University of Kentucky College of Dentistry (UK)
University of Louisville School of Dentistry (UL)
Louisiana State University School of Dentistry (LSU) LA
University of Maryland School of Dentistry (MYD)
University of New England College of Dental Medicine (UNE)
University of Missouri Kansas City School of Dentistry (UMKC)
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Dentistry (UNC)
Creighton University School of Dentistry (CRE)
Rutgers School of Dental Medicine (RSDM)
Roseman University of Health Sciences College of Dental Medicine (USN)
Marquette University School of Dentistry (MQT)
West Virginia University School of Dentistry (WVA)

I will probably remove Rutgers considering they said not to apply without a 22.
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yes, what you said is very true, sometimes people need more than 2 shots, or even three shots, but what more important here is the improvement/changes/difference you make for every shot you take. for your case, since the academic (school classes stuff are already on par), the left over thing is so obvious. Retake the DAT. 19 DAT with a 3.7 3.8DAT first time in undergrad may be competitive but you need more than a 19AA. try to shoot for 21AA
 
More honesty from the TheBigN! Not what you want to hear, but need to hear.

TAKEAWAY: Narrative and "fit" are one in the same. They mask "we're looking for that Pop!" on your application - that one experience - by conceding actual performance metrics, while at the same time evaluating performance metrics. When professional schools scream HOLISTIC HOLISTIC! what they really mean is We will make the necessary concessions on statistics, performance metrics, and qualities of metrics to align and level the playing field for qualified vs. unqualified people without looking biased or self-serving.

Newsflash - medical and dental admissions are biased and self-serving. Those that have state initiatives for funding want a narrative that fits their mission. Private schools use a narrative to save face politically. Here's what you need to know:

1. Admissions isn't equal (few things in life are), it's becoming more subjective (as in any selection process), and the holistic narrative they push is a way to shield against inconsistencies or hypocrises they do during the selection. If you don't fit their narrative (or what they want to hear or have perceived from that narrative), you're out.

2. Grades from applicants of various backgrounds (notably URM, LBGT, or extreme circumstance) are NOT created equal.

A "B" in Organic Chemistry from an applicant they expect to get a B from ("Not a bad grade, but could've been higher") always looks worse than an applicant who got a B that was considered down and out or "had it tough" ("Pretty good grade! We're satisfied!").

Embarrassingly, an "A" in Organic Chemistry from an applicant they expect an A from ("Good, but what else do they offer? We have high standards you know!") differs mightily from an applicant they thought had it tougher with an A ("Awesome job! You overcame the odds! This is exactly what we want!").

Unfortunately, a C in a BCP class as an applicant they expect better from ("Oh, this isn't good... they might not make it in this curriculum) is GAME OVER compared to a C in a BCP class from an applicant that had it "tough" ("Not the best grade, but we'll look at other things they have to offer. What else do they have here?").

And forget a D in a BCP class. If you're an applicant that isn't disadvantaged or perceived disadvantaged ("They aren't ready.") vs. is disadvantaged ("Not great, but we are supposed to be holistic / fair. Let's keep our head up and look through the rest of the application."), you can chalk up a minimum 2 years of improvement.

Point blank - admissions enforce caring about grades / disregarding grades depending on their perception of you.

2. Admissions also evaluate standardized tests in a disingenuous manner relative to your profile. They expect people with high sGPAs (3.5+) to get higher DAT scores (22 AA). They are more psychologically (due to many variables outside your control) "accepting" of below average sGPA (< 3.5) with a less than average DAT (19-20 AA). Essentially, if you got high grades during undergrad, you look worse if you don't get a high DAT to boot, justifying that you didn't study enough, your grades were inflated. Great contradictions huh?

3. There were dental acceptees last cycle with a 17 TS, 2.95 sGPA with a limited profile and a better "story", and there were rejectees last cycle with 20 AA and 3.5 sGPA, a flushed out profile, and a lesser "story" to tell. Either you play the game, or you get played.

My honest recommendation is that you identify your problem and stop wasting tens of thousands of dollars for 25 schools. If you're in a 4th application cycle, your issue is either 1. your narrative or 2. your academic profile overall based on expectations. Find it within yourself in your application - your personal statement, your extracurriculars, maybe your LORs if they let you write it for you as a frame - to put on a "better" narrative, OR you do what you're "supposed" to and get a higher DAT score, because that's what they expect from someone "like you". Those really are your two options.

EDIT (12:37): To give you perspective on how hypocritical and inconsistent the admissions process is, the non-traditional poster below 1passbbsSHAVE had a 24 AA \ 24 TS (a 97-99 percentile score) + a 3.4 sGPA (competitive) and STILL got rejected and waitlisted from the majority of his schools which *certainly* had several accepted students with lesser profiles. The game is what it is.
 
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rutgers, Florida state, kentucky, and WVA are not OOS friendly (don't know what state you are from). might want to take them out unless you have strong desire to get into those over others.
 
TheBigN89 said:
More honesty from the TheBigN! Not what you want to hear, but need to hear.

TAKEAWAY: Narrative and "fit" are one in the same. They mask "we're looking for that Pop!" on your application - that one experience - by conceding actual performance metrics, while at the same time evaluating performance metrics. When professional schools scream HOLISTIC HOLISTIC! what they really mean is We will make the necessary concessions on statistics, performance metrics, and qualities of metrics to align and level the playing field for qualified vs. unqualified people without looking biased or self-serving. Newsflash - medical and dental admissions are biased and self-serving.

1. Admissions isn't equal (few things in life are), it's becoming more subjective (as in any selection process), and the holistic narrative they push is a way to shield against inconsistencies they do during the process. If you don't fit their narrative (or what they want to hear from that narrative), you're out.

2. Grades from applicants of various backgrounds are NOT created equal. A "B" in Organic Chemistry from an applicant they expect to get a B from ("not a bad grade, but could've been higher) looks worse than an applicant who got a B that is "down and out" or "had it tough" ("pretty good grade! We're satisfied!"). Similarly, an "A" in Organic Chemistry from an applicant they expect an A from ("What else do they offer? We have high standards") differs mightily from an applicant they thought had it tougher ("Awesome job! You overcame the odds!"). Unfortunately, a C in a BCP class as an applicant they expect better from ("Oh, this isn't good... they might not make it in this curriculum) is GAME OVER compared to a C in a BCP class from an applicant that had it "tough" ("Not the best grade, but we'll look at other things they have to offer. What else do they have here?"). And forget a D in a BCP class -- if you're an applicant that isn't disadvantaged ("They aren't ready.") vs. is disadvantaged ("Not great, but we are supposed to be holistic / fair. Let's keep our head up), expect minimum 2 years of improvement. Point blank - admissions enforce caring about grades / disregarding grades depending on their perception of you.

Do you see the perception gap here?

Admissions also views standardized tests in a disingenuous manner relative to your profile - they expect people with high sGPAs (3.5+) to get higher DAT scores (22 AA) to match, and are more psychologically (due to many variables outside your control) "accepting" of below average sGPA (< 3.5) with a less than average DAT (19-20 AA). Essentially if you got high grades during undergrad, you look worse if you don't get a high DAT to boot - funny how that works out, huh?

3. There were dental acceptees last cycle with a 17 TS, 2.95 sGPA with a limited profile and a better "story", and there were rejectees last cycle with 20 AA and 3.5 sGPA, a flushed out profile, and a lesser "story" to tell. Either you play the game, or you get played.

My honest recommendation is that you identify your problem. If you're in a 4th application cycle, your issue is either 1. your narrative or 2. your academic profile overall based on expectations. Find it within yourself in your application - your personal statement, your extracurriculars - to put on a "better" narrative, OR you do what you're "supposed" to and get a higher DAT score, because that's what they expect from someone "like you". Those really are y
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I can't tell y'all how many times I've heard this...but I'm still unsure of what it truly means.
How does one "fit their narative"? Connections?
 
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Fit narrative basically mean each and every school have the algorithms or formula to select applicants to grant interviews and accept, with the strongest emphasis based on stats and then emphasis based on ECs. Since all pre dents can spend time to do EC and most of them have enough EC, it is just basically stats. To select and different students who have high stats, good EC, but also carry them well in interview and show their determination and dedication.

thus holistic review exists and is true that school used them but they still have to place emphasis on stats first, at least for the majority of schools.

Look up UNLV's acceptance and interview formula, it is a very simple math equation that is believed to predict well and used by admission. Other schools dont admit this but how do they keep check of consistency and stability of admitting new students in the class that will later represent the school.
 
1passbbsSHAVE said:
rutgers, Florida state, kentucky, and WVA are not OOS friendly (don't know what state you are from). might want to take them out unless you have strong desire to get into those over others.
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I'm a resident of the tai-state area. I never felt Rutgers was in-state friendly. Know many people that go there not from NJ.
 
3. There were dental acceptees last cycle with a 17 TS, 2.95 sGPA with a limited profile and a better "story", and there were rejectees last cycle with 20 AA and 3.5 sGPA, a flushed out profile, and a lesser "story" to tell. Either you play the game, or you get played.

My honest recommendation is that you identify your problem and stop wasting tens of thousands of dollars for 25 schools. If you're in a 4th application cycle, your issue is either 1. your narrative or 2. your academic profile overall based on expectations. Find it within yourself in your application - your personal statement, your extracurriculars, maybe your LORs if they let you write it for you as a frame - to put on a "better" narrative, OR you do what you're "supposed" to and get a higher DAT score, because that's what they expect from someone "like you". Those really are your two options.

EDIT (12:37): To give you perspective on how hypocritical and inconsistent the admissions process is, the non-traditional poster below 1passbbsSHAVE had a 24 AA \ 24 TS (a 97-99 percentile score) + a 3.4 sGPA (competitive) and STILL got rejected and waitlisted from the majority of his schools which *certainly* had several accepted students with lesser profiles. The game is what it is.[/QUOTE]

I think you are spot on here. My first statement was about being born to immigrant parents and the language barrier. I talked about the challenges growing up and yada yada. Second statement talked about schooling outside the US and here. Third statement I refined it more to focus on my patient experience (not that my other ones didn't), I just reminded them about why I wanted this, what makes me a fit, and all my well-rounded qualities. Right now I am working on an entirely different story which is very unique.

Yeah, they probably expect someone like me to have a 24-28AA, and I would love to retake the DAT, but I'm working full-time, teaching part-time, and taking a summer class (as suggested by an admissions person to refresh myself as a "student" since this is my 4th year applying). Mind you, I have a Masters. One admissions rep suggested to do a second Masters and I know someone who applied and got in with 2 Masters, but that's something I can't just do overnight.

Edit: Just wanted to add that there was one admissions rep that did say one thing which resonated: It's not impressive to see someone take one course here and one course there and get A's. And it's not impressive to see someone do nothing but study for the DAT and get a 24, but shows they didn't have a job, volunteered, or did anything more than a little part-time gig. All in all, very intuitive and logical statements that seems shrouded with contradictions. It is, as you say, how the game is played.
 
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JLT223 said:
How is a state school not in state-friendly? That's kind of the point lol. Two days after I moved from NY to NJ (updated through AADSAS) I received an interview invite.
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Nice! You've got better luck than me then. I was going off someone who attends there and said they felt that there were a ton of out-of-staters. I obviously am not in the class to speak to that so this is a second hand statement.
 
DMDDDSHopeful said:
3. There were dental acceptees last cycle with a 17 TS, 2.95 sGPA with a limited profile and a better "story", and there were rejectees last cycle with 20 AA and 3.5 sGPA, a flushed out profile, and a lesser "story" to tell. Either you play the game, or you get played.

My honest recommendation is that you identify your problem and stop wasting tens of thousands of dollars for 25 schools. If you're in a 4th application cycle, your issue is either 1. your narrative or 2. your academic profile overall based on expectations. Find it within yourself in your application - your personal statement, your extracurriculars, maybe your LORs if they let you write it for you as a frame - to put on a "better" narrative, OR you do what you're "supposed" to and get a higher DAT score, because that's what they expect from someone "like you". Those really are your two options.

EDIT (12:37): To give you perspective on how hypocritical and inconsistent the admissions process is, the non-traditional poster below 1passbbsSHAVE had a 24 AA \ 24 TS (a 97-99 percentile score) + a 3.4 sGPA (competitive) and STILL got rejected and waitlisted from the majority of his schools which *certainly* had several accepted students with lesser profiles. The game is what it is.
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I think you are spot on here. My first statement was about being born to immigrant parents and the language barrier. I talked about the challenges growing up and yada yada. Second statement talked about schooling outside the US and here. Third statement I refined it more to focus on my patient experience (not that my other ones didn't), I just reminded them about why I wanted this, what makes me a fit, and all my well-rounded qualities. Right now I am working on an entirely different story which is very unique.

Yeah, they probably expect someone like me to have a 24-28AA, and I would love to retake the DAT, but I'm working full-time, teaching part-time, and taking a summer class (as suggested by an admissions person to refresh myself as a "student" since this is my 4th year applying). Mind you, I have a Masters. One admissions rep suggested to do a second Masters and I know someone who applied and got in with 2 Masters, but that's something I can't just do overnight.

Edit: Just wanted to add that there was one admissions rep that did say one thing which resonated: It's not impressive to see someone take one course here and one course there and get A's. And it's not impressive to see someone do nothing but study for the DAT and get a 24, but shows they didn't have a job, volunteered, or did anything more than a little part-time gig. All in all, very intuitive and logical statements that seems shrouded with contradictions. It is, as you say, how the game is played.[/QUOTE]
A second masters?? Call me crazy, but I do not think that would be a good use of your time or money.
 
I dont want to shoot you down but there are countless other immigrants who overcome language barrier, perform as well as native born students, yet save the immigrant background to interview just to solidify how their work truly stems from their potential and ability.

using immigration and being a child of a know nothing immigrant parents will not cut it. And if they rejected you for 3 times, there must be something wrong you should sit down and reflect. One being so obvious that I pointed out to you to that you need to retake the DAT

the second is how heavy/packed/ridiculous ur schedule is and how impressive the grades you get with that schedule will be. Ex: a student with 4 science classes with a 3.7 will cut a student with 2 science classes with a 3.8 even though they take same amount of units (lets say 18 units the other just fill the rest of the units with GE classes). Masters educations are given out like cherries on a tree and most are known for grade inflation. As long as you show up ull get 3.5. Thus you need like 3.9 for the masters. but masters here will not weight as heavy as postbach classes or extra classes that might as well give you a second BS degree

you bring up working full time teaching part time and dont have the time. the bad news here is that if you want to try for dentistry you have to do any mean to make time for it (aka quitting your full time job and finding a part time job)

best of luck.
 
frozenicecreamDMD said:
I dont want to shoot you down but there are countless other immigrants who overcome language barrier, perform as well as native born students, yet save the immigrant background to interview just to solidify how their work truly stems from their potential and ability.

using immigration and being a child of a know nothing immigrant parents will not cut it. And if they rejected you for 3 times, there must be something wrong you should sit down and reflect. One being so obvious that I pointed out to you to that you need to retake the DAT

the second is how heavy/packed/ridiculous ur schedule is and how impressive the grades you get with that schedule will be. Ex: a student with 4 science classes with a 3.7 will cut a student with 2 science classes with a 3.8 even though they take same amount of units (lets say 18 units the other just fill the rest of the units with GE classes). Masters educations are given out like cherries on a tree and most are known for grade inflation. As long as you show up ull get 3.5. Thus you need like 3.9 for the masters. but masters here will not weight as heavy as postbach classes or extra classes that might as well give you a second BS degree

you bring up working full time teaching part time and dont have the time. the bad news here is that if you want to try for dentistry you have to do any mean to make time for it (aka quitting your full time job and finding a part time job)

best of luck.
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It's a little hard to decipher your statement, but I'll try my best to address your comments:

1. A Masters is not given out like cherries and if it is, you must be thinking of online universities maybe. Post-bacc classes lead to MS in many cases for students and I'm not sure what world you're in that a graduate degree isn't encouraged for those with a poor performance in University (even though my University performance was not poor).
2. I've never used my experiences in foreign countries as a crutch; I've used them as a bonus. I'm able to relate to those from many different backgrounds and I grew up in areas of rich diversity.
3. I'm a little insulted you would say that just by showing up that you would receive a 3.5GPA. That's very rude. If you think a Masters is a cake-walk, then you either don't have one or attended one that I'm jealous of and should have attended.
4. Units are not equal as it does not show your ability to juggle different courses in different concentrations; Also, many, many individuals on the committee have said real-life experiences are heavily looked upon.
5. If I quit my full-time job that is a career relevant to the career in dentistry, just to study 24/7 for a DAT score higher than 19AA, will you feed my family and pay my bills? I really hope you will because I'll definitely be your best friend.

Anyway, not trying to pick a fight online. You can respond, I'll read it, but I won't say anything extra. I'll just hope that this time will be different and that they see my continued efforts in the community, experience, volunteering, and outreach will be considered as much as they claim.
 
My stats are very similar to yours. I had a BCP of about 3.02 in undergrad and a BCP of 3.89 from my postbaccalaureate. Overall they rounded my BCP GPA to 3.26 on AADSAS. My DAT was slightly higher with a 20AA/19 TS/23 RC/23 PAT. With these stats I received 8 interviews with 3 of them on your list. I didn't apply to Rutgers. I think like others said it stems from your personal statement, LOR's, and extracurriculars.

I think what someone else mentioned about immigration above is don't use it as a main point since there are a lot of immigrants who also apply to dental school. It's ok to mention it as background in a paragraph but don't make it the main point of your essay aka "the hardships I faced growing up as an immigrant". The personal statement wants to see why you chose dentistry so you can instead use that information to show like you mentioned above it helps you connect with patients of your foreign background or how it opened up foreign dental volunteering opportunities.

DMDDDSHopeful said:
Edit: Just wanted to add that there was one admissions rep that did say one thing which resonated: It's not impressive to see someone take one course here and one course there and get A's. And it's not impressive to see someone do nothing but study for the DAT and get a 24, but shows they didn't have a job, volunteered, or did anything more than a little part-time gig. All in all, very intuitive and logical statements that seems shrouded with contradictions. It is, as you say, how the game is played.
Click to expand...

If what this rep said is true (and I'm not saying he's right in case he just made these statements randomly), then he's not talking about how high your GPA is but how consistently you got A's afterwards. It looks better to have a cluster of A's in consecutive semesters than to have a few A's one semester, one A the following, and then one A more in the last semester. My upward trend showed that I was could get multiple A's in consecutive school terms (in 4 quarters of my post-bacc, I only slipped up once and got a B-). Also I had a rep tell me a good rule of thumb is to take 12 units per term, if you only do 4 units it doesn't look good (I know it's hard if you have to work but they want to see you make the sacrifice). Also it sounds like you DID work while studying for the DAT but the way this rep mentioned it, it sounds like your application didn't articulate that you were busy while preparing for your DAT (make sure you check your work dates and extracurricular dates and see if they overlapped with your DAT!). You definitely can get more interviews, I think it's just refining the parts of your app that showed how you handled school, work, and why you want to do dentistry.
 
schmoob said:
I think you are spot on here. My first statement was about being born to immigrant parents and the language barrier. I talked about the challenges growing up and yada yada. Second statement talked about schooling outside the US and here. Third statement I refined it more to focus on my patient experience (not that my other ones didn't), I just reminded them about why I wanted this, what makes me a fit, and all my well-rounded qualities. Right now I am working on an entirely different story which is very unique.
Click to expand...


Change your statement of purpose. Write about that moment that inspired you to become a dentist. How did you feel when the patient with missing anterior teeth smiled for the first time after their restoration? Did a family member discover they had a cancer from a dental appointment? What was it that drove you into dentistry?

All of the other stuff can be used in the "challenging circumstance" statement.
 
I don't understand your reasoning behind many of the schools you picked. Florida, Kentucky, UNC, WVA, LSU, Maryland, and UMKC are not OOS-friendly schools. You would basically be throwing money away with schools like UNC and UMKC. If you're from the tri-state area, why not NYU or Touro? Your best odds will be the privates, so why not add NYU, Touro, Tufts, Boston, AT Still, and Case instead of the public instate programs.
 
spice7 said:
I don't understand your reasoning behind many of the schools you picked. Florida, Kentucky, UNC, WVA, LSU, Maryland, and UMKC are not OOS-friendly schools. You would basically be throwing money away with schools like UNC and UMKC. If you're from the tri-state area, why not NYU or Touro? Your best odds will be the privates, so why not add NYU, Touro, Tufts, Boston, AT Still, and Case instead of the public instate programs.
Click to expand...
Maryland is actually very OOS friendly, btw.
 
JLT223 said:
Maryland is actually very OOS friendly, btw.
Click to expand...
Ah you're right--that's the school in Baltimore. I actually considered applying there OOS, too. But I've seen The Wire.

OP, also consider adding Detroit Mercy.
 
spice7 said:
I don't understand your reasoning behind many of the schools you picked. Florida, Kentucky, UNC, WVA, LSU, Maryland, and UMKC are not OOS-friendly schools. You would basically be throwing money away with schools like UNC and UMKC. If you're from the tri-state area, why not NYU or Touro? Your best odds will be the privates, so why not add NYU, Touro, Tufts, Boston, AT Still, and Case instead of the public instate programs.
Click to expand...

I've added AT Still and Case. I'm not applying to Touro or any school that isn't accredited or near accreditations. That's just my personal preference and not a slight to anyone. Boston told me they like students currently in school or graduated no more than 2 years ago. NYU is way too expensive and not much of a city person.

Edit: I know the other schools are just as expensive or near it when comparing to NYU.
 
spice7 said:
Ah you're right--that's the school in Baltimore. I actually considered applying there OOS, too. But I've seen The Wire.

OP, also consider adding Detroit Mercy.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I shall look into it. Was on the fence.
 
mmm I think there is a hidden problem in your application that you probably did not notice .. let someone (dental studet or advice to look at it). because with your GPA, DAT,and EC you should get more interviews.
I also read from expert that any thing more than 15 school is not going to increase your chance. if you did not get interviewed and accepted in one of the 15 schools, then you will not in 25 schools. Basically is just waste of money. And as everyone said, Do not add schools that are not OOS friendly
 
science luv said:
mmm I think there is a hidden problem in your application that you probably did not notice .. let someone (dental studet or advice to look at it). because with your GPA, DAT,and EC you should get more interviews.
I also read from expert that any thing more than 15 school is not going to increase your chance. if you did not get interviewed and accepted in one of the 15 schools, then you will not in 25 schools. Basically is just waste of money. And as everyone said, Do not add schools that are not OOS friendly
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. I almost thought maybe OP was trolling but I won't make that accusation without knowing for sure. Admissions and circumstances isn't really an exact science. Thats why stats do not seal your fate either way. I mean if a lot of applicants existed with OPs stats but had the same acceptance and interview results then "then 3.0under club" would not exist and "chance me" threads with high stats like 3.8+ DAT 24+ bells and whistles would seem more valid to post.

Follow the advice of what everyone said about applying to schools that are practical OOS friendly. I would call any school that didn't interview me and get feedback on why they didn't interview and ask what you can do to make your application better next time. I think it would be interesting to know what admissions would say to you.
 
what happened? Did you get more interviews this cycle? Did you get accepted? Hope you did!
 
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