Dental school the same as Medical school for yr1 and yr2?

[medstudent3563]

Hi,

I've heard that generally speaking, the cirriculum at Dental schools are almost identical to the cirriculum at Medical schools during the first two years.

I know you dental students obviously take Anatomy, Physiology, Microbiology, Histology, Pharmacology and probably general pathology but are there anymore similarities?

Do you guys take 'systems' specific courses that are seen in alot of medical schools during 2nd year like courses on Cardiology, the Respiratory System, Neuroscience, Neurology, etc.?

It would be great if some Dental students actually posted their first and second year cirriculums here.

BTW, I'm currently a 2nd year medical student, lets just say I'm doing some 'researching' on the subject of Dental school cirriculums.

Thanks.

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[oldboy]

identical @ uconn, columbia, and harvard. similar or less at all other schools.

 

[Bifid Uvula]

Yr 1: Anatomy, Physiology, Histology, Neuroscience, Microbiology, and Biochemistry. Those are essentially the same. The dental courses included: Dental Anatomy, Periodontics, Operative/Restorative Dentistry, Biostatistics, and 4-5 other classes.

2nd Year: Immunology, General Pathology, Pharmacology, Advanced Head & Neck Anatomy, Oral & Maxillofacial Pathology, Oral & Maxillofacial Radiology, Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery, Periodontics, Endodontics, Pediatric Dentistry, Fixed and Removable Prosthodontics, Orthodontics, Public Health Dentistry and again 4-5 other classes on other subjects.

In the 1st two years dental students spend between 20-30 hours/week honing their hand skills, learning how to perform procedures, preparing projects and practicing for practicals.

3rd and 4th years are spent primarily treating patients, performing general dentistry. The dental specific classes continue in either advanced topic lecture or seminar series. The dental students also have to spend a significant amount of their "free-time" outside of clinic doing lab-work on their patient's cases.

I am an Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery resident now, and most of the "dental specific stuff" i learned in school doesn't apply to 90% of what i do in practice. The Basic science stuff.... ALL of it applies. All fields in dentistry are very methodical and technically demanding... and I'm thankful I was able to leave most of that "headache" behind!

The difference really isn't in the classes or the materials taught/learned. The difference lies more with what you have to apply and use each and every day during your training. In dental school it was very easy to brush over a lot of the basic science stuff, forget it, re-study it for National Boards I and II and then flush it again. Its more along the lines of using it or losing it.

Hope this sheds some light...

 

[medstudent3563]

Yr 1: Anatomy, Physiology, Histology, Neuroscience, Microbiology, and Biochemistry. Those are essentially the same. The dental courses included: Dental Anatomy, Periodontics, Operative/Restorative Dentistry, Biostatistics, and 4-5 other classes.

2nd Year: Immunology, General Pathology, Pharmacology, Advanced Head & Neck Anatomy, Oral & Maxillofacial Pathology, Oral & Maxillofacial Radiology, Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery, Periodontics, Endodontics, Pediatric Dentistry, Fixed and Removable Prosthodontics, Orthodontics, Public Health Dentistry and again 4-5 other classes on other subjects.

In the 1st two years dental students spend between 20-30 hours/week honing their hand skills, learning how to perform procedures, preparing projects and practicing for practicals.

3rd and 4th years are spent primarily treating patients, performing general dentistry. The dental specific classes continue in either advanced topic lecture or seminar series. The dental students also have to spend a significant amount of their "free-time" outside of clinic doing lab-work on their patient's cases.

I am an Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery resident now, and most of the "dental specific stuff" i learned in school doesn't apply to 90% of what i do in practice. The Basic science stuff.... ALL of it applies. All fields in dentistry are very methodical and technically demanding... and I'm thankful I was able to leave most of that "headache" behind!

The difference really isn't in the classes or the materials taught/learned. The difference lies more with what you have to apply and use each and every day during your training. In dental school it was very easy to brush over a lot of the basic science stuff, forget it, re-study it for National Boards I and II and then flush it again. Its more along the lines of using it or losing it.

Hope this sheds some light...

Thanks very informative. BTW, there's plenty of Carribean (bad spelling) medical schools, are there any Carribean Dental schools? Is there such a thing?

 

[Midoc]

Thanks very informative. BTW, there's plenty of Carribean (bad spelling) medical schools, are there any Carribean Dental schools? Is there such a thing?

No, at this time, the only accredited schools are in the US and Canada.

 

[Jediwendell]

Not very similar at all at either Kentucky or San Antonio.
Cheers.

 

[dinesh]

There is a caribbean Dental school @ the University of the West INdies, St . Augustine , Trinidad.
It's not ADA accredited of course.

 

[drhobie7]

identical @ uconn, columbia, and harvard. similar or less at all other schools.

Does that mean dental students take ALL the classes med students take at these institutions? I can't imagine how they'd have time to do that and lab classes. I think it's more like the dental students take the core science classes with med students. I'm curious to hear if this is the case.

 

[shabu2]

Does that mean dental students take ALL the classes med students take at these institutions? I can't imagine how they'd have time to do that and lab classes. I think it's more like the dental students take the core science classes with med students. I'm curious to hear if this is the case.

Yup...That's why it's so brutal, but I must admit, less time/emphasis is placed on dental courses than medical for the first two years.

 

[LAZYGUY]

Yup...That's why it's so brutal, but I must admit, less time/emphasis is placed on dental courses than medical for the first two years.

there are small differences, at our school dental students dont take neuroscience, behavioral sciences, psychopathology and focus alot of their course, such as pathology, on the head and neck region and other organ systems related to oral health. Of course medical students also have to do the ridiculous courses related to medicine...standardized patients, physical and history, ethics (like this can be thought? 👎 )

 

[dinesh]

At ours we do the exact same courses for the first 1.5 years, even nueroscience. From 2nd semester of year 2 we get into more head/heck , radiology , basic operative techniques...fully under the dental school from that point.
Right now we have dental classes(about 2-3 hours a week + 3-4 hr labs) plus the med work.
Kind of sucks when people go home half day , have liming plans and you have to 'stay back in the lab to carve' ..grrrr

 

[shabu2]

At ours we do the exact same courses for the first 1.5 years, even nueroscience. From 2nd semester of year 2 we get into more head/heck , radiology , basic operative techniques...fully under the dental school from that point.
Right now we have dental classes(about 2-3 hours a week + 3-4 hr labs) plus the med work.
Kind of sucks when people go home half day , have liming plans and you have to 'stay back in the lab to carve' ..grrrr

Are there med students in those courses, and are they taught by medical faculty? Uconn, Harvard , and Columbia are the only schools I am aware of that do this.

 

[jpollei]

No, at this time, the only accredited schools are in the US and Canada.

Puerto Rico...?

 

[jpollei]

Does that mean dental students take ALL the classes med students take at these institutions? I can't imagine how they'd have time to do that and lab classes. I think it's more like the dental students take the core science classes with med students. I'm curious to hear if this is the case.

At Carolina the DDS's have more or less the same basic science curriculum as the MD's (minus the arm/leg anatomy and less intense clinical path) during our first year.
Difference here--and I only speak for UNC when I was a DS1 (2002-3) is that as a general rule 1st year med students are in class from 8:30-12:30ish each day while the dental students are 8-5 every day. This enables DDS students have time to also take all our pre-clinical courses in addition to the basic science courses where the MD students take only their basic science courses...it also means we have to study in the evening where the MD's have the afternoon to study.
2nd year DDS's here take dental science courses (clinical micro, oral path, etc.) in addition to finishing preclinical courses and also spend time with patients (about 50% of our time by end of year 2). The 2nd year MD's are still in basic science courses (some of which we also took our 1st year).

 

[PreDentJennifer]

It is not the same at most dschools. The sciences are a bit watered down ( of course, there are exceptions)

 

[TucsonDDS]

It is not the same at most dschools. The sciences are a bit watered down ( of course, there are exceptions)

Here at Buffalo I can guarentee that the sciences are not watered down for us dents. Anatomy is the same, Histo the meds only have 1/2 a semester where we are here for a full semester. Biochem is roughly the same. Where they have a class to teach blood pressures, medical histories, ect, we are just told to do it. Meds get out of school at noon 4 days a week and 3 on the other day. We have one half day and that is usually filled by most trying to finish up the lab requirements for preclinical lab. I think that the first 2 years are definitely harder for the majority of Dental Students than meds. Also for Gross the dents have scored 2 points higher on the last 2 tests than the meds. I think they have it easy.

And I would imagine that the majority of schools is like this.

 

[12YearOldKid]

It is not the same at most dschools. The sciences are a bit watered down ( of course, there are exceptions)

And you know this because you have attended both med and dental school, right? Oh, wait. You haven't been to either one.

 

[Rezdawg]

It is not the same at most dschools. The sciences are a bit watered down ( of course, there are exceptions)

If my classes are watered down, I dont even want to know what the poor kids are doing over at BU med, given the fact that they are in class about half the time that we are there.

 

[PreDentJennifer]

That is why the message said " of course, there are exceptions". Obviously, BU and Buffalo are upon those and I know there are more.

 

[toofache32]

As someone who has done both medical and dental school including some 2nd year med school, they are not entirely the same. The med students take maybe 2-3 courses at a time to give them 17-20 lecture hours per week. The systems-based places are basically the same amount of material, at least when my med school switched to modules/systems. Dental school gives you the same courses, but with a dental slant, which is the way it should be. The med school does the same thing by putting a medical slant on theirs. Dental students also take a ton of dental courses on top of the basci sciences. I took about 10 courses at once during my first semester of dental school which gave us about 35 hours of lecture per week.

The basic sciences are different, but close enough that the OMS residents pass the USMLE every year without even going to med school.

 

[DDSSlave]

It is not the same at most dschools. The sciences are a bit watered down ( of course, there are exceptions)

If you're applying to dental schools in Texas, here's some first hand info. Compared to medical school we take more histology (1 yr), more pharmacology (1 yr), more pathology (1 yr of systemic, 1 yr of oral path, 1 yr of differential diagnosis), 1yr of physiology, 1 sem gross (waste up), biochem, micro, internal medicine, full physical exam, and a lot of other misc medical classes. Plus a lot of the dental classes reiterate systemic implications (particularly oral surgery). If that was it, dental school would be manageable, but then try adding all the dental classes, labs, and then squeeze in some clinic. Now am I going to sit here and suggest that I know everything a physician knows? Of course not. When you graduate, you know just enough not to hurt anyone (prob about the same as a fresh med school grad before residency).

 

[toofache32]

...When you graduate, you know just enough not to hurt anyone (prob about the same as a fresh med school grad before residency).

I think that's giving the fresh MD grads a little too much credit. The only thing you're qualified for after med school is doing H&Ps, holding retractors, and finding xrays. That's why a residency is required.

 

[Dr. Pedo]

It is not the same at most dschools. The sciences are a bit watered down ( of course, there are exceptions)

🙂 Pre-dents aren't they funny

 

[burton117]

The basic sciences are different, but close enough that the OMS residents pass the USMLE every year without even going to med school.

And that's all that matters... Can you pass your boards? - NDBE or otherwise!!

 

[newbe]

most of you forget that md's go through hell after graduation. they are on call
half the time getting paid 40 grand a year for atleast 2 years. so dental students
suffer in school but after graduation life is better for us then md's. 😱 😱 😱 😀

 

[newbe]

most of you forget that md's go through hell after graduation. they are on call
half the time getting paid 40 grand a year for atleast 2 years. so dental students
suffer in school but after graduation life is better for us then md's. 😱 😱 😱 😀

 

[Dr. Pedo]

most of you forget that md's go through hell after graduation. they are on call
half the time getting paid 40 grand a year for atleast 2 years. so dental students
suffer in school but after graduation life is better for us then md's. 😱 😱 😱 😀

It's all relative: I'm a dental specialty residency (Pedo;2 yrs) and I'm paid less and on call more. Not to mention my friends over in Oral Surgery who get paid pebbles for 4-6 year residency and are on call weekly 😱
Not into pissing matches as I feel all professional/doctorate degrees are demanding.

Dr. B

 

[aphistis]

most of you forget that md's go through hell after graduation. they are on call
half the time getting paid 40 grand a year for atleast 2 years. so dental students
suffer in school but after graduation life is better for us then md's. 😱 😱 😱 😀

On the other hand, what you haven't learned yet (but hopefully will soon enough 😉) is that dental students go through hell *before* graduation. I'm not saying med school is a cakewalk, but I'm not at all convinced it's tougher than dental.

 

[Oppenheimermann]

On the other hand, what you haven't learned yet (but hopefully will soon enough 😉) is that dental students go through hell *before* graduation. I'm not saying med school is a cakewalk, but I'm not at all convinced it's tougher than dental.

Word.

I'm sure a lot of people have mentioned this but basically dent students in their first two years learn everything med students learn in four years. Their schedule is a joke compared to ours, at least at my school.

Just took an histology exam. 10 chapters in two weeks. That was pointless.

You might say that I had two weeks to study those materials but then again, it's 8-5 at school and we had biochem, micro, dental anatomy all spread out in those two weeks. Never gone to bed before 12:30am since science classes started...I don't even know what I'm saying anymore. I smell like the cadavers. My Thanksgiving appetite is gone. Dental school sucks. I'm going to bed.

 

[drhobie7]

I'm sure a lot of people have mentioned this but basically dent students in their first two years learn everything med students learn in four years.

I think this is an exaggeration. You're not going on clinical and surgical rotations for 2 years, besides oral medicine and oral surgery (which probably amount to 2 months total). I think med students learn more systemic pathology, physical diagnosis, pharmacology, and medicine than dental students. That should make sense to everyone. After graduating dental school you're not going to go out and diagnose aortic stenosis, cholecystitis, or epilepsy. I know a bunch of med students at UCLA and they're bright, hard working people, although they are in class way less than the dental students. 🙂 However, they still work pretty hard. Discounting their education is just as ridiculous as them discounting ours.

 

[rottentooth]

The only school that I know of that definitely grades the dental students on the same curve as their medical students is Harvard. So, not only are the dental students taking the same curriculum as the med students during their first two years, but they are being graded relative to med students. Also,the dental students are finished with lecture at noon (alongside the med students), so there is clearly no disadvantage here based on the absence of afternoon labs and additional coursework.

So a study comparing basic science grades (years I and II) between med students and dental students at Harvard would be some very interesting stats to see - given that Harvard School of Dental Medicine has the highest pre-dental GPA and DAT averages in the country. Anyone know if this study has been done?

My feeling is that the Harvard med students (in general) would have the higher scores on average anyway - let's face it dental students, the applicant pool for med school is much greater and the average GPAs, even at HSDM, do not come close to the avg GPA at the top medical school programs.


UCONN and Columbia - I am not sure if the dental students are graded on the same curve or not, or if their lab courses continue until 5pm??!!! Anyone?

 

[Doggie]

I recently graduated from columbia, so maybe i can shed some light.

Med/dent students are graded on separate curves, although the basic science courses are 90% similar. The med students may have other weird classes not necessary to dentistry (ie: behavior, etc). I think the only difference is that we didnt do anatomy below the genitals and our epidemiology class was slightly different. Except for the classes I just mentioned, the tests were pretty much identical.The lab courses I had to go through was usually either the entire afternoon from 1-5 or the entire day from 9-5. Of course most students came on weekends and stayed throughout the evenings to finish up on projects.

The only school that I know of that definitely grades the dental students on the same curve as their medical students is Harvard. So, not only are the dental students taking the same curriculum as the med students during their first two years, but they are being graded relative to med students. Also,the dental students are finished with lecture at noon (alongside the med students), so there is clearly no disadvantage here based on the absence of afternoon labs and additional coursework.

So a study comparing basic science grades (years I and II) between med students and dental students at Harvard would be some very interesting stats to see - given that Harvard School of Dental Medicine has the highest pre-dental GPA and DAT averages in the country. Anyone know if this study has been done?

My feeling is that the Harvard med students (in general) would have the higher scores on average anyway - let's face it dental students, the applicant pool for med school is much greater and the average GPAs, even at HSDM, do not come close to the avg GPA at the top medical school programs.


UCONN and Columbia - I am not sure if the dental students are graded on the same curve or not, or if their lab courses continue until 5pm??!!! Anyone?

 

[daelroy]

The only school that I know of that definitely grades the dental students on the same curve as their medical students is Harvard. So, not only are the dental students taking the same curriculum as the med students during their first two years, but they are being graded relative to med students. Also,the dental students are finished with lecture at noon (alongside the med students), so there is clearly no disadvantage here based on the absence of afternoon labs and additional coursework.

So a study comparing basic science grades (years I and II) between med students and dental students at Harvard would be some very interesting stats to see - given that Harvard School of Dental Medicine has the highest pre-dental GPA and DAT averages in the country. Anyone know if this study has been done?

My feeling is that the Harvard med students (in general) would have the higher scores on average anyway - let's face it dental students, the applicant pool for med school is much greater and the average GPAs, even at HSDM, do not come close to the avg GPA at the top medical school programs.


UCONN and Columbia - I am not sure if the dental students are graded on the same curve or not, or if their lab courses continue until 5pm??!!! Anyone?

Yes, but the Harvard and Columbia kids don't take the same exams regardless if they are in the same lectures. And that makes all the difference in the world. The medical school exams are much more difficult and comprehensive since basic sciences is the only thing they are being tested on.

 

[rottentooth]

Yes, but the Harvard and Columbia kids don't take the same exams regardless if they are in the same lectures. And that makes all the difference in the world. The medical school exams are much more difficult and comprehensive since basic sciences is the only thing they are being tested on.

Actually, you are exactly right regarding the Columbia kids but according to Dr. Rosen, Harvard med and dental students take the same tests and are graded on the same curve during their first two years of basic science education. Unlike many other schools that group dental and medical students together but test them slightly differently, Harvard is different.

 

[dirtywater]

Yes, but the Harvard and Columbia kids don't take the same exams regardless if they are in the same lectures. And that makes all the difference in the world. The medical school exams are much more difficult and comprehensive since basic sciences is the only thing they are being tested on.

UCONN takes the same exams as meds for first and second years. We do the feet and perineum etc during anatomy. Meds finish at noon. Dentals finish at 5 because of dental classes and preclinial activities. We don't see patients until year 3 except to assist a few times a year. We don't have much lab work until year 3. Meds perform slightly better on most exams, but not all. Exam means are usually within 5% of each other. We get a numerical score on exams, but at the end of the year meds and dentals get a S-satisfactory or U-Unsatisfactory. Dental is obviously harder here, but this school is not the norm. Columbia and Harvard are similar, but probably slightly different. Most of the basic science we learn is great, but probably only applies to its fullest for students who go onto oral surgery. Students do well on dental part 1 which is a joke compared to what meds go through. The school breeds specialists. About half the class goes onto specialize, and most of the rest will go do a GPR/AEGD. Very few will go directly into practice. I think we are above average in terms of match. I'm guessing Harvard is better in this respect, but not sure. I don't know much about Columbia. UCONN only has about 40 per class, and 75-80 meds per class.

 

[thegoogler]

Ahem . . . UCONN medical students are not done at noon. We are done at 5 PM or later 2 afternoons/wk due to 'pre-clinical activities', and also spend an additional afternoon or evening each week taking required electives that begin later in the 1st yr. So . . . not saying it's as hard as the dental lab work, but we definitely don't have as much time to spend in the library as you think we do.

 

[shabu2]

Yes, but the Harvard and Columbia kids don't take the same exams regardless if they are in the same lectures. And that makes all the difference in the world. The medical school exams are much more difficult and comprehensive since basic sciences is the only thing they are being tested on.

You are correct, we don't take the same exams. Ours are the same med exams + a dental section in most of our "shared" medical classes. Pharm, Pathophysiology, pathology, etc during second year are longer exams than the med students. Our medical background is as extensive in all aspects except Neurosci and some gross anatomy during first year as Doggie has pointed out. Thank god for P/F.