Dentist Shelf Life

[yappy]

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Hey guys, I had a question about how long one can expect to work as a dentist? I will be starting dental school in my mid-later 20's and want to make sure I wont be making the wrong decision. I really have enjoyed shadowing but sometimes wonder if I can work till late 60's- early 70's.
I had a very physical job in the military where we were used and abused. Lots of PT & shock to the body via hard landings, roping and chutes.

Does specialty matter? Are there some fields of dentistry where you can work despite not having a perfect back? This may seem crazy.. but is it possible for a dentist to switch hands or at learn to do dentistry with both?

Thanks

 

[dentalWorks]

I am not a veteran dentist (yet)... but my guess is you should be able to squeeze out 20-30 years out of the profession IF YOU TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF physically (exercise regularly, workout your core muscles ~ lower back, stomach, neck and shoulders, use good ergonomics when practicing, and lowering work hours as you age into 50s)

 

[AndrewNJ]

Hey guys, I had a question about how long one can expect to work as a dentist? I will be starting dental school in my mid-later 20's and want to make sure I wont be making the wrong decision. I really have enjoyed shadowing but sometimes wonder if I can work till late 60's- early 70's.
I had a very physical job in the military where we were used and abused. Lots of PT & shock to the body via hard landings, roping and chutes.

Does specialty matter? Are there some fields of dentistry where you can work despite not having a perfect back? This may seem crazy.. but is it possible for a dentist to switch hands or at learn to do dentistry with both?

Thanks

Yappy,
My military work wasn't anywhere near as rigorous as yours, but I'll graduate D School when I turn 36. I fully intend to get at least 30 years of practice before its time to retire. The Dentist I shadow is going to work until he is 72 I believe. As long as you take care of yourself and practice good ergonomics, you should have a nice long career ahead of you.

 

[drgioiadds]

Hey guys, I had a question about how long one can expect to work as a dentist? I will be starting dental school in my mid-later 20's and want to make sure I wont be making the wrong decision. I really have enjoyed shadowing but sometimes wonder if I can work till late 60's- early 70's.
I had a very physical job in the military where we were used and abused. Lots of PT & shock to the body via hard landings, roping and chutes.

Does specialty matter? Are there some fields of dentistry where you can work despite not having a perfect back? This may seem crazy.. but is it possible for a dentist to switch hands or at learn to do dentistry with both?

Thanks

I lasted 10 years. Now on to something new next summer.

 

[dentalWorks]

I lasted 10 years. Now on to something new next summer.

Wow... your switching over to DO?
I dunno if thats... inspiring....or.... confusing

Whats the reason for the switch?

 

[Bereno]

Wow... your switching over to DO?
I dunno if thats... inspiring....or.... confusing

Whats the reason for the switch?

I say that's confusing to me haha. I would NOT want to go the DO route. My older sister is a DO and I talk to her all the time about it. Despite what a lot of the osteopathic schools tell you, there is still a prejudice against DO's in the medical world. Also, I would never want to work for a hospital, I would much rather manage my own practice.

OP: people are living longer and longer, so it would not suprise me if you easily worked till you were 65-70 if you wanted to. 👍

 

[7 Iron]

Hey guys, I had a question about how long one can expect to work as a dentist? I will be starting dental school in my mid-later 20's and want to make sure I wont be making the wrong decision. I really have enjoyed shadowing but sometimes wonder if I can work till late 60's- early 70's.
I had a very physical job in the military where we were used and abused. Lots of PT & shock to the body via hard landings, roping and chutes.

Does specialty matter? Are there some fields of dentistry where you can work despite not having a perfect back? This may seem crazy.. but is it possible for a dentist to switch hands or at learn to do dentistry with both?

Thanks

You guys want to work into your 70s? Even if you graduate around your early 30's, that's almost 40 years of practice. Yikes. I plan to retire before 60. Anyway, I think as someone else said, good ergonomics as well as a good pair of loupes will be invaluable to our longevity for sure.

 

[yappy]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this. I've actually been battling between DO and DDS as I do have a strong interest in both.
However, I think dentistry fits me best. It's just when my hand hurts terribly after cleaning an oven, or when my back feels like crap after I've been studying for long periods, I wonder if I'll be able to have a long healthy career.

 

[drgioiadds]

Wow... your switching over to DO?
I dunno if thats... inspiring....or.... confusing

Whats the reason for the switch?

It all depends on what level of healthcare you want to be involved in. If you have a general love for medicine/health, I'd say MD/DO is better. Dental is medical as well, but the majority of it is technical work. I don't mind doing restorative, but I want to be more involved with the general "health" of my patients.

BTW, I graduated 14/77 in my class, so its not like I couldn't do the work, its more like I wasn't interested in the work that many dentists enjoy (cosmetics/endo).

 

[drgioiadds]

I say that's confusing to me haha. I would NOT want to go the DO route. My older sister is a DO and I talk to her all the time about it. Despite what a lot of the osteopathic schools tell you, there is still a prejudice against DO's in the medical world. Also, I would never want to work for a hospital, I would much rather manage my own practice.

OP: people are living longer and longer, so it would not suprise me if you easily worked till you were 65-70 if you wanted to. 👍

I've done both. I've managed my own practice for 9 years and currently working as an associate before I go back to school. I'll tell you this much, there is so much less stress being an associate. Don't have to worry about equipment failure, sales reps, staffing issues, billing, AR etc.

Scope of practice is much more broad in medicine; however, its all what you are interested in.

 

[dentalWorks]

It all depends on what level of healthcare you want to be involved in. If you have a general love for medicine/health, I'd say MD/DO is better. Dental is medical as well, but the majority of it is technical work. I don't mind doing restorative, but I want to be more involved with the general "health" of my patients.

BTW, I graduated 14/77 in my class, so its not like I couldn't do the work, its more like I wasn't interested in the work that many dentists enjoy (cosmetics/endo).

thats a mighty fine class rank btw 👍

well, I admire you for what your about to put yourself through. I don't imagine med school being any easier than DS (and from what I guess, its very rigorous ~ especially rotation + residency years).

So, I take it your going into primary care? Will you still work as a GP and a Family doc? or are you strictly only Medicine?

 

[drgioiadds]

thats a mighty fine class rank btw 👍

well, I admire you for what your about to put yourself through. I don't imagine med school being any easier than DS (and from what I guess, its very rigorous ~ especially rotation + residency years).

So, I take it your going into primary care? Will you still work as a GP and a Family doc? or are you strictly only Medicine?

Primary Care, most likely Family. I'll at least be able to do OMM on all those tmj patients👍

 

[OhioDMD]

I have just started my 31st year of private practice and plan on practicing another 4 years. No one has a crystal ball, but assuming you have no catastrophic illnesses, accidents or professional burn-out you can reasonably expect to practice at least into your 60's if you desire.

 

[AmpedUp]

Most dentists peak between ages 35-54...Learned it in my dental public health class.

 

[Lidopaine82]

I have just started my 31st year of private practice and plan on practicing another 4 years. No one has a crystal ball, but assuming you have no catastrophic illnesses, accidents or professional burn-out you can reasonably expect to practice at least into your 60's if you desire.

where city are you in? looking for an associate?😀

 

[omaralt]

You have to take care of your body by practicing good ergonomics. Make sure you use loupes and learn to work with indirect vision. Many people think dentists are lazy because most of us only work 4 days a week; however dentistry is physically demanding. Also make sure you have a good disability policy (true own occupation; guardian Berkshire is the gold standard) so if you can't work you still have an income. I've seen dentists practice into their seventies and ive seen dentists retire in their 40's due to health problems.

 

[yappy]

Is their an area of dentistry that requires less physical capability? Ortho? OS? GP? Endo?

I'm currently liftings, doing yoga, and cardio to keep my body healthy.

 

[AlcoHulk]

Is their an area of dentistry that requires less physical capability? Ortho? OS? GP? Endo?

I'm currently liftings, doing yoga, and cardio to keep my body healthy.

Ortho is the least physically demanding of those. OS is the most.

 

[dentalWorks]

Ortho is the least physically demanding of those. OS is the most.

especially since most oral surgeons stand and work (which by the way its not a requirement)

 

[yappy]

This makes alot of sense. I guess I'm worried because I feel like I'm having some problems right now. My dominent arm's shoulder has taken some hard falls and as a result I have traveling pain in the AC joint, glenoid/humoral joint, and posterior shoulder. I also feel crepitus with movement from the scapula & some popping associated with pain that's about 2/10 on a pain scale.

I would LOVE to do dentistry but sometimes I feel the need to hedge and go for medicine because I would feel aweful if I had to switch up careers late in life. I'm already getting a later start and cannot afford to make the wrong choice.

Do you guys think it would be foolish to go into dentistry with these types of problems? Can I use my other arm?

You have to take care of your body by practicing good ergonomics. Make sure you use loupes and learn to work with indirect vision. Many people think dentists are lazy because most of us only work 4 days a week; however dentistry is physically demanding. Also make sure you have a good disability policy (true own occupation; guardian Berkshire is the gold standard) so if you can't work you still have an income. I've seen dentists practice into their seventies and ive seen dentists retire in their 40's due to health problems.

 

[omaralt]

This makes alot of sense. I guess I'm worried because I feel like I'm having some problems right now. My dominent arm's shoulder has taken some hard falls and as a result I have traveling pain in the AC joint, glenoid/humoral joint, and posterior shoulder. I also feel crepitus with movement from the scapula & some popping associated with pain that's about 2/10 on a pain scale.

I would LOVE to do dentistry but sometimes I feel the need to hedge and go for medicine because I would feel aweful if I had to switch up careers late in life. I'm already getting a later start and cannot afford to make the wrong choice.

Do you guys think it would be foolish to go into dentistry with these types of problems? Can I use my other arm?

another issue you need to consider is that its going to be very difficult/impossible for you to get disability insurance. most people dont realize the importance of disability insurance until you graduate. with that medical history that you have no disability insurance company would touch you; just something to keep in mind. you can always do ortho, oral pathology, or even teach in dental school setting.

 

[yappy]

This is unfortunate. I guess I have alot of thinking to do. With my shoulder pain flaring up from time to time and not having the option of having disability ins., I think I need to start researching other career options.

I just dont know if I can take that kind of a risk. Thanks for sharing your insight.

another issue you need to consider is that its going to be very difficult/impossible for you to get disability insurance. most people dont realize the importance of disability insurance until you graduate. with that medical history that you have no disability insurance company would touch you; just something to keep in mind. you can always do ortho, oral pathology, or even teach in dental school setting.

 

[DrDISpecialist]

This is unfortunate. I guess I have alot of thinking to do. With my shoulder pain flaring up from time to time and not having the option of having disability ins., I think I need to start researching other career options.

I just dont know if I can take that kind of a risk. Thanks for sharing your insight.

Disability insurance definitely is a must, especially for the medical and dental profession. Depending on the school you go to, there might be a guaranteed standard issue policy setup where you can get coverage and they won't take into consideration your health. Wherever you decide to go, look into the options that are provided by your teaching institution. Individual insurance is always the best option, but there are options for people who can't get it. Also, with a condition like you have, you can always elect to have surgery to fix the issue (I'm not a doctor so that is not recommended without discussing with your physician). If the diagnosis has been treated and you are able to return to work for a period of time without any issues, you can always amend your policy and get any exclusions removed by going through underwriting a second time.

It's all very complicated but just know that you have options.

 

[Tooth]

Hey guys, I had a question about how long one can expect to work as a dentist? I will be starting dental school in my mid-later 20's and want to make sure I wont be making the wrong decision. I really have enjoyed shadowing but sometimes wonder if I can work till late 60's- early 70's.
I had a very physical job in the military where we were used and abused. Lots of PT & shock to the body via hard landings, roping and chutes.

Does specialty matter? Are there some fields of dentistry where you can work despite not having a perfect back? This may seem crazy.. but is it possible for a dentist to switch hands or at learn to do dentistry with both?

Thanks

Dude. You are in your TWENTIES and already complaining about back pain? You need to go into Ortho, the military, or education.

 

[yappy]

I went to an othropedic doctor and they DX me with a partial tear to one of my rotator cuff muscles. They believe it can be fixed to restore full function.

Yes I get back pain in my 20's; but I'm fairly healthy. I didn't start having pain till after I slowed down and went to UG.

I think I'm going to press on with dentistry - but will no longer do military press; lateral side raises will have to do from now on.

Thanks for the advice guys.

Dude. You are in your TWENTIES and already complaining about back pain? You need to go into Ortho, the military, or education.

Mainly shoulder / posterior shoulder pain. Military again? Not unless WWIII breaks out! Otherwise, I'm too old for that. Maybe I'll have to check out ortho.

 

[charlestweed]

Several dentist friends of mine think disability insurance is a waste of money. I kind of agree with them. My wife got tired of paying $1700 every year for the disability insurance and last month, she decided not to renew her disability insurance. I still keep mine but I probably will cancel it next year.

 

[DrDISpecialist]

Several dentist friends of mine think disability insurance is a waste of money. I kind of agree with them. My wife got tired of paying $1700 every year for the disability insurance and last month, she decided not to renew her disability insurance. I still keep mine but I probably will cancel it next year.

It's a waste of money until you have to use it, then it was the best investment you ever made. Do you feel the same way about your homeowners insurance? Comparatively, the return on investment is smaller because the house itself isn't worth as much as your income (if I'm 40 years old right now making $200K/yr then my income is worth $4.7million). Nobody wants to pay for insurance but you sure don't want to be caught without it.

Now if you are in your 50s and have done a good job of saving so you can self insure then that's a different story. Insurance is meant to protect against the things that will financially destroy you if they were to occur (loss of your house, loss of a life, loss in a law suit, loss of income, loss of a business partner, etc). If someone were to get disabled even partially, the cumulative effect of that lost income can be overbearing on a family.

I just hope the gentleman that started the conversation can access some form of group or guaranteed standard issue plan because he likely won't be able to get coverage on his own.

 

[omaralt]

Several dentist friends of mine think disability insurance is a waste of money. I kind of agree with them. My wife got tired of paying $1700 every year for the disability insurance and last month, she decided not to renew her disability insurance. I still keep mine but I probably will cancel it next year.

i'm sorry; but unless your very wealthy and have a lot of money saved up this is the stupidest thing you can possibly do. my partner (in his 30's) was recently diagnosed with stomach cancer. of course he is going through hell with treatments and what not; but at least financially he is fine because he had good disability insurance. had he not had disability insurance he would be in bankruptcy now. like the above person said; it's not important till you need it. i can lease a brand new BMW with what i pay for disability every month but its definitely worth it. odds are as a dentist you will get disabled sometime in your career; and unlike most other physicians we cannot work without our hands and back

 

[yappy]

will a shoulder rotator cuff repair prevent me from getting disability insurance?

 

[charlestweed]

i'm sorry; but unless your very wealthy and have a lot of money saved up this is the stupidest thing you can possibly do. my partner (in his 30's) was recently diagnosed with stomach cancer. of course he is going through hell with treatments and what not; but at least financially he is fine because he had good disability insurance. had he not had disability insurance he would be in bankruptcy now. like the above person said; it's not important till you need it. i can lease a brand new BMW with what i pay for disability every month but its definitely worth it. odds are as a dentist you will get disabled sometime in your career; and unlike most other physicians we cannot work without our hands and back

The reason we purchased the disability insurance was we graduated with 450k in student loans. Since we are done with our student loans, there is no reason to pay $ 3400 every year ($1700 for each of us). As long as I am still alive, I continue to work until I reach the retirement age.

Keep in mind that it has to be a permanent or long-term disability (pregnancy doesn’t count) in order to file claim. And there is a 90-day waiting period. My friend (a periodontist) had a major car accident that required multiple surgeries….and he was back to work 2 months later.

And lastly, the disability insurance only pays $5000/month. I can make more than that by hiring an associate orthodontist…..and I just stay home.

We both have life insurance since we have 2 very young children.

 

[bigstix808]

will a shoulder rotator cuff repair prevent me from getting disability insurance?

yes and no... could raise premium if documented. could deem you a "high risk" if your repair was faulty or was too extreme of a repair for the insurance company to take a risk on you.

if you are 100% now, and pass any PT/SM exam with flying colors then you're good to go.

...edit: you might have a clause that states something about your insurance will cover all things EXCEPT for shoulder injury related to previous accident...

 

[DrDISpecialist]

yes and no... could raise premium if documented. could deem you a "high risk" if your repair was faulty or was too extreme of a repair for the insurance company to take a risk on you.

if you are 100% now, and pass any PT/SM exam with flying colors then you're good to go.

...edit: you might have a clause that states something about your insurance will cover all things EXCEPT for shoulder injury related to previous accident...

The biggest determining factor in a case like this is, "was the surgery successful in fixing the diagnosis". Ultimately, only time will be able to tell so they will likely put an exclusion on your policy offering to cover all things except the shoulder. However, depending on the company, they may allow you to reapply in a couple of years to have the exclusion removed (but they want to have a couple of good years with no issues under the policy before they do that).

Typically you can go to each carrier and ask to have their underwriters review your case before applying (at least the good ones will). They will let you know what the chances are of you being declined, rated, have exclusions, etc.

 

[DrDISpecialist]

Keep in mind that it has to be a permanent or long-term disability (pregnancy doesn’t count) in order to file claim. And there is a 90-day waiting period. My friend (a periodontist) had a major car accident that required multiple surgeries….and he was back to work 2 months later.

And lastly, the disability insurance only pays $5000/month. I can make more than that by hiring an associate orthodontist…..and I just stay home.

Great conversation everyone!

If you have a good disability policy, it doesn't have to be permanent. Yes it has to be long-term (which is why it's called long-term disability) but that's what you are trying to protect against. You can likely self-insurance against a short-term disability. Pregnancy is only a LTD if there are complications. The biggest ones to worry about as a dentist are musculoskelatal and mental/nervous (these are the two highest claim types). Most commonly, you see depression and substance abuse because of life's stresses that nobody ever anticipates coming (like dependency on sleep meds after a loved one passes away).

Back to my point- A good policy will have a partial disability rider that will pay even if you are partially disabled. So in your case, even if you are determined to go to work, your body might not allow you to (or your doctor will recommend against it). The best examples are always cancer. When you are going through Chemotherapy, there is a good chance that you will be able to work a little. But the more you work the more your body shuts down and your physician will tell you to slow things down and keep hours to a minimum. Sure you're still working but at least you will still be getting paid a benefit because you are losing part of your income. Depending on the company, you only need a 15% or 20% loss to start receiving benefits. A partial disability is more likely to happen than a permanent one. Do you buy home owners insurance for the complete destruction of your home or have you used it more for minor things like hail damage (I live in Minnesota so that's pretty common).

Lastly, benefits should be kept up with your increasing income so if you haven't updated your benefit in awhile it might be a good idea to see if you can jump that up to match your income. Hopefully you have some sort of a future increase pool to pull from (if your agent did a good enough job helping you setup the policies).

 

[Demeter]

There is an orthodontist down the road that is around 90. Ortho's have the best life. They sit in their office, tx plan cases, and the dental assistants bond/ bracket, change wires and basically all of the manual labor.

I plan on taking ortho courses and learning how to do easy class I ortho cases. Then let another dentist take over my restorative cases, while I keep doing the easy ortho cases, and keep cash flowing into my bank account until I keel over.

 

[yappy]

Thanks for the posts everyone. A lot of stuff to think about. Demeter; sounds like you have everything figured not. Not a bad plan!

I had never considered ortho: but I see why many people are drawn to it.

The areas that have appealed to me the most while shadowing have been general dentistry, OMFS🙂xf🙂, & endo. They seem to fit my personality best. In my past career I was a combat medic and felt gratification while performing surgical techniques when the situation required it. But with this shoulder I just don’t know if it's an option. I guess we'll see after I get it taken care of.

It's a little sad how we don’t bounce back from things sometimes.

There is an orthodontist down the road that is around 90. Ortho's have the best life. They sit in their office, tx plan cases, and the dental assistants bond/ bracket, change wires and basically all of the manual labor.

I plan on taking ortho courses and learning how to do easy class I ortho cases. Then let another dentist take over my restorative cases, while I keep doing the easy ortho cases, and keep cash flowing into my bank account until I keel over.

 

[Silent Cool]

Thanks for the posts everyone. A lot of stuff to think about. Demeter; sounds like you have everything figured not. Not a bad plan!

I had never considered ortho: but I see why many people are drawn to it.

The areas that have appealed to me the most while shadowing have been general dentistry, OMFS🙂xf🙂, & endo. They seem to fit my personality best. In my past career I was a combat medic and felt gratification while performing surgical techniques when the situation required it. But with this shoulder I just don’t know if it's an option. I guess we'll see after I get it taken care of.

It's a little sad how we don’t bounce back from things sometimes.

Ironically, a good osteopathic/OMM physician could help you with it.