Jul 25, 2009
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Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
Ok, I am a Junior in High School, and I definitely want to do something in Health. I thought about being a dentist, but I hear there is a mountain load of stress, plus there's overehead if you go the business route. I want to have plenty of free time aside from what I do for my life, my family, and ME time. I also considered pharmacy because it seems like not bad pay, and it odesnt seem hard to get into Pharm school, and you just work 9-5 unless you work at someplace like GlaxoSmithKline or whatever. That would probably provide free time, but I like the idea of dentistry, even though it's teeth, that doesn't bother me, it's the other vices/stress that come along with it. As you can see, I'm leaning toward dentistry, but I just dont want to get sued 3 times a week, or not be able to keep up with the overhead. I've always been a bit of an entrepreneur. I want to be able to buy an EXTREMELY nice home(MTV Teen Cribs:D) and LUXURY cars, and buy, and eat WHAT I want, WHEN I want, and take myself or myself or family on a vacation ANYWHERE I want, WHEN I want. I've always liked going to the dentist, and I like the offices, and what goes on.


I know I'm rambling, but I really want dentistry and I don't want to be driven to the point of suicide.:laugh:
 

gd152

10+ Year Member
Apr 13, 2009
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You are pretty young, and I understand your desires... trust me. If you want to make a lot of money as you claim, dentistry is better than pharmacy. But that's not necessarily what I'd advise.

I read this post thinking about myself and the way I thought back when I was your age. And I thought a bit like this. I have a bit of room to speak since I was making $300k at age 22. Anyway, trust me, the mansion, luxury car, etc. does nothing to make you happy.

The vacations are good and can help, the free time is good, family is good and having a passion is good. But the most miserable time in my life was when I was wasting all of my hard-earned money on superficial things - I bought a $700k house and a $60k car, plus a lot more. Going into dentistry for the sole purpose of buying an expensive house and car is a very, very bad idea.

I know you have been brainwashed by MTV and all that crap. Anyway, my advise is to make your decision based on other things than having a huge mansion and bling car.
 

gd152

10+ Year Member
Apr 13, 2009
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And dentists don't have the highest rate of suicide... it's a myth.
 
OP
TreeHouseMD
Jul 25, 2009
9
0
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Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
You are pretty young, and I understand your desires... trust me. If you want to make a lot of money as you claim, dentistry is better than pharmacy. But that's not necessarily what I'd advise.

I read this post thinking about myself and the way I thought back when I was your age. And I thought a bit like this. I have a bit of room to speak since I was making $300k at age 22. Anyway, trust me, the mansion, luxury car, etc. does nothing to make you happy.

The vacations are good and can help, the free time is good, family is good and having a passion is good. But the most miserable time in my life was when I was wasting all of my hard-earned money on superficial things - I bought a $700k house and a $60k car, plus a lot more. Going into dentistry for the sole purpose of buying an expensive house and car is a very, very bad idea.

I know you have been brainwashed by MTV and all that crap. Anyway, my advise is to make your decision based on other things than having a huge mansion and bling car.

I know what you'e saying haha. I guess I really like the PRACTICE of dentistry, plus I REALLY like money, but so hey, best of both worlds. Are you a dental student?? And if you don't mind me asking, how did you make 300K at 22?? Tell me the secret, cause I won't even bother going to College or Dental:laugh:

I don't want to be FILTHY FILTHY rich, I'd just like to make a nice 6 figure income, and have 7-figure priced house in a suburb someplace:D

Plus, I really like the atmosphere of dentistry. I can self employ, no bosses, I will have my own business, yadda yadda, etcetera, fruit smoothy:laugh:
 

gd152

10+ Year Member
Apr 13, 2009
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I started a very large dot-com network and made over $700k in 3 years, but I burned out. I just couldn't do it anymore. Things were awesome at first... it was a huge rush. But anyway, it is not as easy as it sounds, and this is defeating the purpose of the thread.
 
OP
TreeHouseMD
Jul 25, 2009
9
0
Status
Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
I started a very large dot-com network and made over $700k in 3 years, but I burned out. I just couldn't do it anymore. Things were awesome at first... it was a huge rush. But anyway, it is not as easy as it sounds, and this is defeating the purpose of the thread.
I know it is haha, I was just curious. I thought about starting an E-Book business, but it's not as easy as 123.

Anyway, back on topic, is there any way to start a dentistry business and still rake in over 1/2 Million per year after overhead?? Does anybody know anyone who actually is able to say this??
 

jbailey

7+ Year Member
Jul 24, 2009
3
1
Status
Im considering the same two professions, this topic while entertaining completely went off track. I have been doing my research online so far, have yet to shadow anyone for either profession. From what I have learned so far:

Dentists:

Pros- Very large range of earning potential, low end 100k, high end 500k+. More prestigious then pharmacy. A dentist has alot of autonomy,which works well if you want to be your own boss, and can handle that. Dentistry can be exciting and challenging because you encounter so many different situations that it doesn't get boring altogether nor really routine. Dentists work pretty reliable hours, 8-5 and no weekends unless they chose that route.

Cons- Dentistry is a more difficult profession to get into, dental school is highly competitive, the work is more audrous. Pretty much anyone and everyone in DS have a BS or BA (4 year degree) so your talking 4 years undergrad then another 4 professional schooling. One of the most talked about negative (I suppose) aspects of dentistry is working in mouths, they are nasty and filled with germs and some folks dont take good care of their teeth so their breath and hygiene(or lack of it) reflect that. Opening your own practice can be very expensive and the overhead of operating your own dental practice is huge. If you do not possess business skills that are sharp you can find yourself well in over your head and not making nearly as much as you could. If your a people person then your set, but during my research I have found alot or complaints about bad patients, whining children, office environments staffed with complaining and chit chatty women staff. Another consideration is you have to move your body around patients in ways that will hurt your neck and back at times, also sitting in a chair alot can bother some people. You have to carry mal practice insurance and could find yourself actually being sued where you would need it. Since payments to you come from insurance companies you will have to spend time chasing the money so you get paid, and that can be a hassle.

Pharmacists:

Pros- You do not have to open your own practice and deal with overhead, in fact most pharmacists work in retail settings where they make a good salary(110k per year). You are not surrounded by alot of staff with different personalities you have to deal with everyday, as the on staff pharmacist you are in charge. A pharmacist could work anywhere he/she is licensed, and not having your own practice in a physical location holding you to it may be a good thing if you hate the place your in or simply want to see something new. Your pay is reliable since you dont have to chase insurance payments. You can get into pharmacy school after only two years of undergrad study where you have completed your prerequisites , dental school by nearly every account I have read require a 4-year degree prior to marticulation.

cons- Pharamicts by every estimate I have found ,particulary the reliable bureau of labor statistics, DO NOT make as much as dentists do. The salary range for being a pharmacist is actually very narrow (100k-130k+) Pharmacists may actually work beyond your 9-5 M-F, they may be contracted with a retail store to work nights and weekends. I also read pharmacists are treated by some customers as if they are the hired help at McDonalds and the respest is not there.The work is very routine and repetitive, some would find this extremely boring. You stand on your feet all day too.
 
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jvanewportnews

10+ Year Member
Dec 29, 2008
191
0
Virginia
Status
Pre-Dental
I started a very large dot-com network and made over $700k in 3 years, but I burned out. I just couldn't do it anymore. Things were awesome at first... it was a huge rush. But anyway, it is not as easy as it sounds, and this is defeating the purpose of the thread.
Hey gd that sounds like good money, but you make it sound too simple. What's a dotcom network? Would it be hard to start a large network, and if not, why isn't everyone doing it?
 
N

NAVY DDS 2010

My comments are embedded inthe quote below:

Im considering the same two professions, this topic while entertaining completely went off track. I have been doing my research online so far, have yet to shadow anyone for either profession. From what I have learned so far:

Dentists:

Pros- Very large range of earning potential, low end 100k, high end 500k+. More prestigious then pharmacy. A dentist has alot of autonomy,which works well if you want to be your own boss, and can handle that. Dentistry can be exciting and challenging because you encounter so many different situations that it doesn't get boring altogether nor really routine. Dentists work pretty reliable hours, 8-5 and no weekends unless they chose that route. More prestigious than pharmacy - says who?

Cons- Dentistry is a more difficult profession to get into, dental school is highly competitive, the work is more audrous. Pretty much anyone and everyone in DS have a BS or BA (4 year degree) so your talking 4 years undergrad then another 4 professional schooling. One of the most talked about negative (I suppose) aspects of dentistry is working in mouths, they are nasty and filled with germs and some folks dont take good care of their teeth so their breath and hygiene(or lack of it) reflect that. Opening your own practice can be very expensive and the overhead of operating your own dental practice is huge. If you do not possess business skills that are sharp you can find yourself well in over your head and not making nearly as much as you could. If your a people person then your set, but during my research I have found alot or complaints about bad patients, whining children, office environments staffed with complaining and chit chatty women staff. Another consideration is you have to move your body around patients in ways that will hurt your neck and back at times, also sitting in a chair alot can bother some people. You have to carry mal practice insurance and could find yourself actually being sued where you would need it. Since payments to you come from insurance companies you will have to spend time chasing the money so you get paid, and that can be a hassle. Do you think that pharmacists don't have to deal with bad patients? Realistically, more patients (customers) complain daily for pharmacists than they do with dentists! The pharmacists have to work with the insurance companies themselves. Very few dentists do this. Another thing, just because a good percentage of dentists own their own practice doesn't mean that you have to own your own business. Some people choose not to have to run a business and accept that they will make only a fraction of what they would otherwise. Another thing, yes, if you have bad posture and don't use loupes and indirect vision, you are more likely to put yourself into positions that will hurt your back. But, if you pay attention to your posture and how you work, you can practice pretty much pain free.

Pharmacists:

Pros- You do not have to open your own practice and deal with overhead, in fact most pharmacists work in retail settings where they make a good salary(110k per year). You are not surrounded by alot of staff with different personalities you have to deal with everyday, as the on staff pharmacist you are in charge. A pharmacist could work anywhere he/she is licensed, and not having your own practice in a physical location holding you to it may be a good thing if you hate the place your in or simply want to see something new. Your pay is reliable since you dont have to chase insurance payments. You can get into pharmacy school after only two years of undergrad study where you have completed your prerequisites , dental school by nearly every account I have read require a 4-year degree prior to marticulation. Yes, you can get into school with only 2 years pre-reqs. that is what my wife did. But, just like dentistry, competition of getting into pharmacay schools has increased. Even though some schools allow you to apply after 2 years and have met requirements, it is very difficult to get into some schools without a BS/BA compared to what it use to be.

cons- Pharamicts by every estimate I have found ,particulary the reliable bureau of labor statistics, DO NOT make as much as dentists do. The salary range for being a pharmacist is actually very narrow (100k-130k+) Pharmacists may actually work beyond your 9-5 M-F, they may be contracted with a retail store to work nights and weekends. I also read pharmacists are treated by some customers as if they are the hired help at McDonalds and the respest is not there.The work is very routine and repetitive, some would find this extremely boring. You stand on your feet all day too. You are not representing the pharmacists as a whole here. Do not forget that pharmacists also work at clinics and hospitals. They do a lot more things other than just fill and check prescriptions. The jobs can vary a lot! My wife works at a hospital and has quite a few duties that you didn't even come close to considering here. She hasn't had to enter orders and check prescriptions for quite some tie there. She never comes home complaining of how biored hse is. If anything, her complains that she needs a mental break because she has had to think hard all day.
 
N

NAVY DDS 2010

Hey gd that sounds like good money, but you make it sound too simple. What's a dotcom network? Would it be hard to start a large network, and if not, why isn't everyone doing it?
Are you serious? You don't know what a dotcom is?
 

DrYoda

Space Cowboy
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Jun 22, 2008
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Cons- Dentistry is a more difficult profession to get into, dental school is highly competitive, the work is more audrous. Pretty much anyone and everyone in DS have a BS or BA (4 year degree) so your talking 4 years undergrad then another 4 professional schooling. One of the most talked about negative (I suppose) aspects of dentistry is working in mouths, they are nasty and filled with germs and some folks dont take good care of their teeth so their breath and hygiene(or lack of it) reflect that. Opening your own practice can be very expensive and the overhead of operating your own dental practice is huge. If you do not possess business skills that are sharp you can find yourself well in over your head and not making nearly as much as you could. If your a people person then your set, but during my research I have found alot or complaints about bad patients, whining children, office environments staffed with complaining and chit chatty women staff. Another consideration is you have to move your body around patients in ways that will hurt your neck and back at times, also sitting in a chair alot can bother some people. You have to carry mal practice insurance and could find yourself actually being sued where you would need it. Since payments to you come from insurance companies you will have to spend time chasing the money so you get paid, and that can be a hassle.

cons- Pharamicts by every estimate I have found ,particulary the reliable bureau of labor statistics, DO NOT make as much as dentists do. The salary range for being a pharmacist is actually very narrow (100k-130k+) Pharmacists may actually work beyond your 9-5 M-F, they may be contracted with a retail store to work nights and weekends. I also read pharmacists are treated by some customers as if they are the hired help at McDonalds and the respest is not there.The work is very routine and repetitive, some would find this extremely boring. You stand on your feet all day too.

Be prepared to deal with bad patients in any of the medical professions (dentist, pharmacist, physician, PA, nurse ect). These are all service jobs and a con for service jobs in general is that sometimes you have to deal with a rude client/customer/patient.
 

Near

Kung Fu Senior Member
10+ Year Member
Jan 30, 2009
255
0
Status
Pre-Dental
Ok, I am a Junior in High School, and I definitely want to do something in Health. I thought about being a dentist, but I hear there is a mountain load of stress

Strange, I've always heard that dentistry is relatively low-stress. Or maybe I've been reading too many threads comparing physicians and dentists.

At any rate, I suppose you could always apply to both if you're really determined......
 

CScull

Is Positive, O Positive
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Nov 1, 2008
2,891
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Taco Bell-ish
Status
Pre-Pharmacy
Im considering the same two professions, this topic while entertaining completely went off track. I have been doing my research online so far, have yet to shadow anyone for either profession. From what I have learned so far:

Dentists:

Pros- Very large range of earning potential, low end 100k, high end 500k+. More prestigious then pharmacy. A dentist has alot of autonomy,which works well if you want to be your own boss, and can handle that. Dentistry can be exciting and challenging because you encounter so many different situations that it doesn't get boring altogether nor really routine. Dentists work pretty reliable hours, 8-5 and no weekends unless they chose that route.

Cons- Dentistry is a more difficult profession to get into, dental school is highly competitive, the work is more audrous. Pretty much anyone and everyone in DS have a BS or BA (4 year degree) so your talking 4 years undergrad then another 4 professional schooling. One of the most talked about negative (I suppose) aspects of dentistry is working in mouths, they are nasty and filled with germs and some folks dont take good care of their teeth so their breath and hygiene(or lack of it) reflect that. Opening your own practice can be very expensive and the overhead of operating your own dental practice is huge. If you do not possess business skills that are sharp you can find yourself well in over your head and not making nearly as much as you could. If your a people person then your set, but during my research I have found alot or complaints about bad patients, whining children, office environments staffed with complaining and chit chatty women staff. Another consideration is you have to move your body around patients in ways that will hurt your neck and back at times, also sitting in a chair alot can bother some people. You have to carry mal practice insurance and could find yourself actually being sued where you would need it. Since payments to you come from insurance companies you will have to spend time chasing the money so you get paid, and that can be a hassle.

Pharmacists:

Pros- You do not have to open your own practice and deal with overhead, in fact most pharmacists work in retail settings where they make a good salary(110k per year). You are not surrounded by alot of staff with different personalities you have to deal with everyday, as the on staff pharmacist you are in charge. A pharmacist could work anywhere he/she is licensed, and not having your own practice in a physical location holding you to it may be a good thing if you hate the place your in or simply want to see something new. Your pay is reliable since you dont have to chase insurance payments. You can get into pharmacy school after only two years of undergrad study where you have completed your prerequisites , dental school by nearly every account I have read require a 4-year degree prior to marticulation.

cons- Pharamicts by every estimate I have found ,particulary the reliable bureau of labor statistics, DO NOT make as much as dentists do. The salary range for being a pharmacist is actually very narrow (100k-130k+) Pharmacists may actually work beyond your 9-5 M-F, they may be contracted with a retail store to work nights and weekends. I also read pharmacists are treated by some customers as if they are the hired help at McDonalds and the respest is not there.The work is very routine and repetitive, some would find this extremely boring. You stand on your feet all day too.

I actually don't think this is true, though it would depend on where you live. One of my mother's friends is a Pharmacist and we were talking recently about the job and she told me right now she makes 92k but she's expecting a pay cut of about 20k due to all the new pharmacy schools that have been opening lately. 72k a year won't be a problem for me, but I have a feeling if you want a mansion and a Porsche you'd probably do better in dentistry.

Money doesn't make you happy though, and if you'd rather mess with IVs than teeth, I would go with what you're going to enjoy.
 
Jun 17, 2009
147
0
NY
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Pre-Medical
CSKULL. just to let you know though, by the time we're out - i hear pharmacy will have a high rebound and earning potential gain again once the recession ends.

And to the OP, my mom's a dentist- she owns he own practice - and she hates her life. no free time because she's always busy, and work is long / tedious. she really wished she did something else
 

gd152

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Apr 13, 2009
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my mom's a dentist- she owns he own practice - and she hates her life. no free time because she's always busy, and work is long / tedious. she really wished she did something else
NY and Southern California are the worst places in the country to practice dentistry. It is way too saturated. Many can't even find work.
 

c5212

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Aug 13, 2009
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to me personally, the whole thought of just :(dealing w/ medication all day :(instead of going into :D:D:Dpracticing medicine and dealing w/ patients:D:D:D has never seemed really appealing
 

CScull

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CSKULL. just to let you know though, by the time we're out - i hear pharmacy will have a high rebound and earning potential gain again once the recession ends.

And to the OP, my mom's a dentist- she owns he own practice - and she hates her life. no free time because she's always busy, and work is long / tedious. she really wished she did something else
Eh, ehm!!

CSCULL.

:cool:
 

J ROD

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I would be a dentist. I think they have the brightest outlook as of now in terms of being a "doc" ie treating patients, salary, & autonomy.

Pharmacy is the easiest way to a good salary though.

Also, one needs to take into account the area of the country too.
 

Praziquantel86

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I would be a dentist. I think they have the brightest outlook as of now in terms of being a "doc" ie treating patients, salary, & autonomy.

Pharmacy is the easiest way to a good salary though.
Where are you getting this information from, other than your behind?
 

jvanewportnews

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Dec 29, 2008
191
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Virginia
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I've been shadowing a dentist for a couple days, and it seems interesting to me, learning to do crowns, bridges, fillings and such. That would be much more interesting than "counting pills at Walgreens"-I know a pharmacist does more lol, but that's what I'd be thinking about if I went into pharmacy.
The dentist I shadow owns his own practice and is very low stress.It's small compared to many-2 hygenists, 1 dentist, about 4 assistants, and then front office people. I don't think he has the highest salary though because he works 4 days a week instead of 5, but it seems like a nice job to have, especially if I want to have a nice life for my family also.
 

denner

10+ Year Member
Jun 5, 2008
275
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Where are you getting this information from, other than your behind?
Not to be a dick, but...common sense...maybe?

Treating patients...dentistry. (Yes I understand you consult with physicians and their patients, I understand that, I am one of the few who understand you do much, much more than just "count pills.").

Salary.....dentistry, when comparing the large majority of each group. Of course there will be others in pharmacy that don't work in retail or in a hospital and work for a business/company/health insurance plan that can make more and there can be associate dentists and that make less (even though they seem to make around 100K almost right away). I would still have to say the vast majority of dentists make more than pharmacists now and in the future.

And autonomy... again dentistry, considering most dentists own their own practices as compared to most pharmacists who work for someone else. I also understand pharmacists can own their own pharmacy, but comparatively speaking, I don't think that % would approach the % of private practice dentists.

If I'm wrong on any of these issues, feel free to correct me and I will happily concede my points.

And please don't take my words as insulting to or bashing pharmacists because that was not my intention in any way, shape or form. People get way too defensive when anyone mentions anything that they don't see as a positive about their chosen profession, so don't take anything the wrong way.

Based on your response above, however, I'm guessing you probably will skip everything I have written so you can get to whatever diatribe you already have prepared.

I've been shadowing a dentist for a couple days, and it seems interesting to me, learning to do crowns, bridges, fillings and such. That would be much more interesting than "counting pills at Walgreens"-I know a pharmacist does more lol, but that's what I'd be thinking about if I went into pharmacy.
The dentist I shadow owns his own practice and is very low stress.It's small compared to many-2 hygenists, 1 dentist, about 4 assistants, and then front office people. I don't think he has the highest salary though because he works 4 days a week instead of 5, but it seems like a nice job to have, especially if I want to have a nice life for my family also.
oh nooooooeeeeessssss.....
Here... put this on
 
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J ROD

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Where are you getting this information from, other than your behind?
It's called research. You might want to try it. :)

Most established dentists I know make around 150-200K and work 4 days around 32hr. Own their own business. The OP also seems to want to treat patients more like a "doc" in the traditional sense.

Pharmacists I know (retail highest paying) make around 115-125K work around 40-45hrs/week and work for a chain.

Now, you could take the chance and own your own pharmacy and make more. But, you will work more too. Unless you hand over some profit for a fill-in pharmacist.

Money: Dentists on average make more :thumbup:
Hours: Dentists on average work less :thumbup:
Autonomy: Dentists on average own their business more :thumbup:
Treat patients in the traditional sense like a "doc". Dentists on average treat patients in this sense more than the average pharmacists :thumbup:

So, how does pharmacy beat dental in terms of the OP's question then?
 

Aznfarmerboi

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May 18, 2005
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It's called research. You might want to try it. :)

Most established dentists I know make around 150-200K and work 4 days around 32hr. Own their own business. The OP also seems to want to treat patients more like a "doc" in the traditional sense.

Pharmacists I know (retail highest paying) make around 115-125K work around 40-45hrs/week and work for a chain.

Now, you could take the chance and own your own pharmacy and make more. But, you will work more too. Unless you hand over some profit for a fill-in pharmacist.

Money: Dentists on average make more :thumbup:
Hours: Dentists on average work less :thumbup:
Autonomy: Dentists on average own their business more :thumbup:
Treat patients in the traditional sense like a "doc". Dentists on average treat patients in this sense more than the average pharmacists :thumbup:

So, how does pharmacy beat dental in terms of the OP's question then?

Dentists have go through more schooling which means lost wages and more tuition money. They also have to pay for their own practice. This means that there are more costs involve. A lot of you guys are looking at 1-2k just for interest alone on your student loans.

Thats the problem with a lot of pre health students/students who havent gone into the real world yet. They look at absolute numbers when there is a lot more. Do you guys have a pension? 401k match? Health benefits? Corporate discounts of up to 50 percent on things like gym memberships, cell phone bills, and cars? How about FSA, tuition money for your kids, paid vacation, or pre-taxed commuter benefit?
 

J ROD

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Dentists have go through more schooling which means lost wages and more tuition money. They also have to pay for their own practice. This means that there are more costs involve. A lot of you guys are looking at 1-2k just for interest alone on your student loans.

Thats the problem with a lot of pre health students/students who havent gone into the real world yet. They look at absolute numbers when there is a lot more. Do you guys have a pension? 401k match? Health benefits? Corporate discounts of up to 50 percent on things like gym memberships, cell phone bills, and cars? How about FSA, tuition money for your kids, paid vacation, or pre-taxed commuter benefit?

Some of your points are reasons why I didnt go dental and the fact I cant see those damn shapes on the PAT, lol!!

My response is in terms of the OP's original question.
 

gd152

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Apr 13, 2009
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Dentists have go through more schooling which means lost wages and more tuition money. They also have to pay for their own practice. This means that there are more costs involve. A lot of you guys are looking at 1-2k just for interest alone on your student loans.

Thats the problem with a lot of pre health students/students who havent gone into the real world yet. They look at absolute numbers when there is a lot more. Do you guys have a pension? 401k match? Health benefits? Corporate discounts of up to 50 percent on things like gym memberships, cell phone bills, and cars? How about FSA, tuition money for your kids, paid vacation, or pre-taxed commuter benefit?
Dentists don't go through more schooling. One can finish undergrad and dental school in as little as 6 years. (I am) That can be reduced 5 years if you go to UOP (2+3), although this is a very stressful route.

You raise some good points about the benefits pharmacists receive, however, dentists have the ability to write those same things off on their taxes as business and employee expenses. Claimed take-home income is after those benefits are paid out.
 

smsc2009

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Ok, I am a Junior in High School, and I definitely want to do something in Health. I thought about being a dentist, but I hear there is a mountain load of stress, plus there's overehead if you go the business route. I want to have plenty of free time aside from what I do for my life, my family, and ME time. I also considered pharmacy because it seems like not bad pay, and it odesnt seem hard to get into Pharm school, and you just work 9-5 unless you work at someplace like GlaxoSmithKline or whatever. That would probably provide free time, but I like the idea of dentistry, even though it's teeth, that doesn't bother me, it's the other vices/stress that come along with it. As you can see, I'm leaning toward dentistry, but I just dont want to get sued 3 times a week, or not be able to keep up with the overhead. I've always been a bit of an entrepreneur. I want to be able to buy an EXTREMELY nice home(MTV Teen Cribs:D) and LUXURY cars, and buy, and eat WHAT I want, WHEN I want, and take myself or myself or family on a vacation ANYWHERE I want, WHEN I want. I've always liked going to the dentist, and I like the offices, and what goes on.


I know I'm rambling, but I really want dentistry and I don't want to be driven to the point of suicide.:laugh:
My father went to medical school as did one of his brothers. The other brother went into dentistry. They all have lived comfortable, successful lives but my advice to you if you "want to be able to buy an EXTREMELY nice home(MTV Teen Cribs:D) and LUXURY cars, and buy, and eat WHAT I want, WHEN I want, and take myself or myself or family on a vacation ANYWHERE I want, WHEN I want" is to pick a different career. There are plenty of other careers that bring in way more money than any member of the healthcare team. Picking medicine for the money isn't realistic anymore with the amount of hours you put in and the stress with the insurance companies, etc. Pick a different career if all you are interested in is money, good luck.
 

Aznfarmerboi

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Dentists don't go through more schooling. One can finish undergrad and dental school in as little as 6 years. (I am) That can be reduced 5 years if you go to UOP (2+3), although this is a very stressful route.

You raise some good points about the benefits pharmacists receive, however, dentists have the ability to write those same things off on their taxes as business and employee expenses. Claimed take-home income is after those benefits are paid out.
I was making a point on why students should not base salary on absolute number.

However, lets go over your response although I fail see why you are justifying your situation online . A few posters mentioned that dental school is usually 4+4 and yours is not the norm. On the other hand, there are a lot of PharmD 6 year programs. Even if you did went 2+4, your tuition and equipment is still considerably higher. UOP (assuming you mean pacific) estimate cost of attendence is 20k more than pharmacy school.

Our benefits are not included in salary take home package. Our 401k (7k) match, 3 to 4 (6-7k) weeks paid vacation is money in our pocket that is not included in our salary. A 20 percent off my phone bill for a family plan is tax free money that a dentist does not get. Health benefits can costs thousands.

You guys can't acknowledge only the benefits of dentistry if you are to give an unbiased opinion to original poster. This isnt a self esteem boster. You can't say that you go through more schooling and hence more prestige (As if prestige pays off student loans) but not acknowledge the lost wages of the extra schooling (250k vs PharmD) and extra cost of living and tuition money (100k TAXED money). That 100k will cost you an extra $650 from your paycheck after you pay the taxes. It is something that amuses me because you guys would apply the same arguement vs MD (and I agree) but not apply it versus PharmD.
 

gd152

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A few posters mentioned that dental school is usually 4+4 and yours is not the norm.
It is not the norm only because people choose for it not to be the norm. I chose to finish undergraduate in 2 years. Anybody else can as well if they choose. Anybody can easily test out of 2 years of undergraduate school. Most people do not choose to do so because that would sacrifice the "college experience."

Our benefits are not included in salary take home package. Our 401k (7k) match, 3 to 4 (6-7k) weeks paid vacation is money in our pocket that is not included in our salary. A 20 percent off my phone bill for a family plan is tax free money that a dentist does not get. Health benefits can costs thousands.
You don't seem to be understanding my last post. Dentists are business owners. The average dental corporation does in fact pay for all employee benefits, including health benefits. Claimed take-home net income on the dental salary surveys I am aware of does not include these benefits.

Let me explain it simpler for you. Say, a dental salary survey or the BLS government statistics claim $150k average. This $150k does not include benefits. After benefits are calculated, the dentist is taking home more. Benefits are not included in salary surveys.

You guys can't acknowledge only the benefits of dentistry if you are to give an unbiased opinion to original poster. This isnt a self esteem boster. You can't say that you go through more schooling and hence more prestige (As if prestige pays off student loans) but not acknowledge the lost wages of the extra schooling (250k vs PharmD) and extra cost of living and tuition money (100k TAXED money). That 100k will cost you an extra $650 from your paycheck after you pay the taxes. It is something that amuses me because you guys would apply the same arguement vs MD (and I agree) but not apply it versus PharmD.
I acknowledge the extra tuition as a factor for the OP to consider. But that is the only drawback that I can point out and acknowledge from your post.
 

Aznfarmerboi

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It is not the norm only because people choose for it not to be the norm. I chose to finish undergraduate in 2 years. Anybody else can as well if they choose. Anybody can easily test out of 2 years of undergraduate school. Most people do not choose to do so because that would sacrifice the "college experience."



You don't seem to be understanding my last post. Dentists are business owners. The average dental corporation does in fact pay for all employee benefits, including health benefits. Claimed take-home net income on the dental salary surveys I am aware of does not include these benefits.

Let me explain it simpler for you. Say, a dental salary survey or the BLS government statistics claim $150k average. This $150k does not include benefits. After benefits are calculated, the dentist is taking home more. Benefits are not included in salary surveys.



I acknowledge the extra tuition as a factor for the OP to consider. But that is the only drawback that I can point out and acknowledge from your post.
If yours is not the norm, what is the point of you pointing it out. Why is it relevant? It is like saying dentists can make a million when it is the extreme.

No matter what, there is no possible way that you can say any dental company can offer better benefits than a pharmacy one. Just do a comparison on salary.com for any zip code and you will see that you guys dont come even close. CVS for example is ranked 16 on Fortune top 500 company for 2009. There is no way a small dental company can even come close to what CVS can offer.

You can argue that you recieve some of the benefits but it still does not change the point of my arguement that we get more and better benfits, which is why people should not always look at salary absolute number. There is nothing wrong with getting less benefits as that is expected from being a business owner.
 

jvanewportnews

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My father went to medical school as did one of his brothers. The other brother went into dentistry. They all have lived comfortable, successful lives but my advice to you if you "want to be able to buy an EXTREMELY nice home(MTV Teen Cribs:D) and LUXURY cars, and buy, and eat WHAT I want, WHEN I want, and take myself or myself or family on a vacation ANYWHERE I want, WHEN I want" is to pick a different career. There are plenty of other careers that bring in way more money than any member of the healthcare team. Picking medicine for the money isn't realistic anymore with the amount of hours you put in and the stress with the insurance companies, etc. Pick a different career if all you are interested in is money, good luck.
Really tired of people saying there are better careers but not giving examples. Care to elaborate? Which career makes more than a doctor or dentist?

http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/15/jobs-careers-compensation-lead-careers-cx_pm_0515bestjobs_slide_4.html?thisSpeed=30000
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/Careers/02/12/cb.big.bucks/index.html
http://www.bizjournals.com/specials/slideshow/37.html?page=1
http://www.myplan.com/careers/top_ten/high_pay.php
Cheif executive rank seems to fluctuate.
 
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gd152

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If yours is not the norm, what is the point of you pointing it out. Why is it relevant?
Because you are saying that it takes longer to become a dentist. This is a false statement.

No matter what, there is no possible way that you can say any dental company can offer better benefits than a pharmacy one. Just do a comparison on salary.com for any zip code and you will see that you guys dont come even close. CVS for example is ranked 16 on Fortune top 500 for 2009. There is no way a small dental company can even come close to what CVS can offer.

You can argue that you recieve some of the benefits but it still does not change the point of my arguement that we get more and better benfits, which is why people should not always look at salary absolute number. There is nothing wrong with getting less benefits as that is expected from being a business owner.
Salary.com is a little inaccurate for dentists since it is based on data for salaried dentists (which most are not). Owner dentists on average do better and also have more write-offs (benefits).

But regardless, why don't you do the search yourself? You're actually wrong - salary.com states the following:

Dentist - U.S. National Averages
Benefit Median Amount % of Total
Base Salary $135,824 74.7%
Bonuses $1,084 0.6%
Social Security $8,607 4.7%
401k / 403b $4,929 2.7%
Disability $1,369 0.8%
Healthcare $5,722 3.1%
Pension $6,298 3.5%
Time Off $17,903 9.9%
Total $181,735 100%
Pharmacist - U.S. National Averages
Benefit Median Amount % of Total
Base Salary $107,653 73.8%
Bonuses $330 0.2%
Social Security $8,187 5.6%
401k / 403b $3,887 2.7%
Disability $1,080 0.7%
Healthcare $5,722 3.9%
Pension $4,967 3.4%
Time Off $14,121 9.7%
Total $145,947 100%
It is a little silly to say that pharmacists make more than dentists (overall) since every survey I know shows dentists ahead. But you know what? I really don't care. I respect pharmacists as much as I do dentists and think that the decision should come down to what job a person is better matched with rather than which career makes more money.
 

smsc2009

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Doctors have comfortable lifestyles but there are careers that require less schooling/hours that make more than physicians, dentists or anyone in healthcare. Sorry to disappoint you if that is your main goal. Many doctors put in 80-100 hrs a week. People in business or law can put in half that and make the same or more.
 

J ROD

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Dont go into to healthcare period if for the money solely. You will hate your job and most times it will show. I know TOO many docs that are this way.

Business and law are options too. Law, you work alot of hours like a doc trying to make partner. Then, when you make partner, sometimes it gets worse. Business, you have to travel alot and work 60hrs normally. Plus, you have to move alot to at first. Family suffers there alot.

Be a lawyer, if you have a firm where you can jump to the top like at your mom and/or dad's law firm. Business, is where the money is at if you can make money. It is not as concrete but you can become a million alot faster and easier.
 

jvanewportnews

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I'm not saying I'm going into it for the money even though dentistry should allow me to have raise a family comfortably. I'm asking what are the many options? I don't really count lawyers as making much more because some make much less than doctors. Ok a business man could make more, but what else? Smsc2009 says there are PLENTY of other careers...I only see business as another one. And some of them don't come out on top either.
 

Aznfarmerboi

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I never said pharmacists make more money over all than dentists. I just said a person should not look at absolute numbers. My arguement was that and still is, after benefits and lost wages plus extra tuition money, the salary difference comes so close that there is no point in picking one field over another based on salary alone.

I did not look at salary.com national average, but I suspect that pharmacist does not show the true picture. The reason being is that in every store, there is one pharmacist and one pharmacist manager. In reality, both are pharmacists and partners, but by law... one has to be pharmacist manager responsible for ensuring that everything is followed according to law.

Pharmacist - Retail

Base Salary $108,170 73.8%
Bonuses $244 0.2%
Social Security $8,194 5.6%
401k / 403b $3,903 2.7%
Disability $1,084 0.7%
Healthcare $5,722 3.9%
Pension $4,987 3.4%
Time Off $14,177 9.7%
Total $146,481 100%



Pharmacist Manager

Base Salary $113,625 71.2%
Bonuses $5,425 3.4%
Social Security $8,348 5.2%
401k / 403b $4,286 2.7%
Disability $1,190 0.7%
Healthcare $5,722 3.6%
Pension $5,476 3.4%
Time Off $15,568 9.8%
Total $159,640 100%

If we were to go by these numbers, (I make 125k, and I am sure any dentists can make more than 130k as stated), lets admit theat on average, there is a 20-30k difference. After tax, it is 15k. That extra 15k is hardly enough to justify going to dental school over pharmacy school for money because it goes toward paying student loans (assuming 100k over 30 years).
 
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Aznfarmerboi

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I would say that business and law are POOR options to make more money. The truth is no career out there offers the job security, benefits, lifestyle, and money than health professionals.

Most lawyers do not get six figure lawyer jobs starting out unless they went to Yale or Harvard and top 15 percent of their class. Even less makes partner and is equivalent to health professionals making CEO or upper management. They have nowhere the job security as we do. The same applies for business. There are so many MBA graduates out there that your MBA better be from Wharton or paid for by your company or it is a lost investment.

There is no secret for making money except the basic capital rule. Risk... the more risks you take, the higher the payout it will be. Of course, you have to compare risk to benefit. Other than that, save and invest wisely. Dont buy anything you dont need and if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I saw the real estate bubble and stock market bubble because it goes above basic parameters. I invested when it went below and was rewarded for my common sense and faith in the captialist system. You will too.
 

DrYoda

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I just said a person should not look at absolute numbers.
I'm not going to jump into the dentist vs. pharmacist argument. But I think what I quoted above is an often overlooked aspect of career decision making that the hSDN members should take into consideration when looking at health-service careers.

The opportunity cost of my medical training (med school+residency) will easily exceeds my med school expenses (tuition +living+loan interest) by more than 75%.

I would say that business and law are POOR options to make more money. The truth is no career out there offers the job security, benefits, lifestyle, and money than health professionals.

Most lawyers do not get six figure lawyer jobs starting out unless they went to Yale or Harvard and top 15 percent of their class. Even less makes partner and is equivalent to health professionals making CEO or upper management. They have nowhere the job security as we do. The same applies for business. There are so many MBA graduates out there that your MBA better be from Wharton or paid for by your company or it is a lost investment.

There is no secret for making money except the basic capital rule. Risk... the more risks you take, the higher the payout it will be. Of course, you have to compare risk to benefit. Other than that, save and invest wisely. Dont buy anything you dont need and if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I saw the real estate bubble and stock market bubble because it goes above basic parameters. I invested when it went below and was rewarded for my common sense and faith in the captialist system. You will too.
agree with all the above.
 

smsc2009

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I'm not saying I'm going into it for the money even though dentistry should allow me to have raise a family comfortably. I'm asking what are the many options? I don't really count lawyers as making much more because some make much less than doctors. Ok a business man could make more, but what else? Smsc2009 says there are PLENTY of other careers...I only see business as another one. And some of them don't come out on top either.
I always said you will be able to live comfortably. The OP said he wants to buy a house like the ones on MTV cribs, go where ever he wants when he wants, own any car he wants, etc. and that just isn't realistic in medicine anymore. Business is not one career. There are many different careers in business, you can be an accountant that spends less schooling/hours as a physician or you could be the CEO of a company which also brings in more. There are a lot of careers in the business field. You have to take into account the amount of hours doctors put in along with the stress. There are other careers where you can make just as much or more without any of that. Go for an MBA if you're interested in that and forget the MD, DO, DPM, DDS, DMD or PharmD.
 

jvanewportnews

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Accountanting doesn't stand up to dentistry...and there are many people with MBAs...so as aznfarmerboi stated, there is less job security with that. Yes there may be a higher earning potential, but the chances of that happening, such as becoming a CEO, are unlikely.
 

smsc2009

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Accountanting doesn't stand up to dentistry...and there are many people with MBAs...so as aznfarmerboi stated, there is less job security with that. Yes there may be a higher earning potential, but the chances of that happening, such as becoming a CEO, are unlikely.
The OP view of life as a member of the healthcare team is a fantasy world. The only thing I suggested to him is that he look into other careers if he wants that kind of lifestyle. You are going to make enough money to be comfortable in medicine but your lifestyle is going to differ drastically as a successful dentist as apposed to a successful financial advisor or banker. Does that make sense? Business is where all the money is, not medicine.
 

jvanewportnews

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Unless I start my own dental practice, and eventually work my way up to multiple practices. That's business in the healthcare field, which is the best of both worlds:cool:
 

gd152

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The OP view of life as a member of the healthcare team is a fantasy world. The only thing I suggested to him is that he look into other careers if he wants that kind of lifestyle. You are going to make enough money to be comfortable in medicine but your lifestyle is going to differ drastically as a successful dentist as apposed to a successful financial advisor or banker. Does that make sense? Business is where all the money is, not medicine.
Money aside, I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here lifestyle-wise since dentists work less than average for all American workers.

The average dentist puts in a 35-40 hour workweek compared to 46 hours for the average American worker. Bankers and financial advisers are no exception. I've worked in multiple offices. Most business people put in at least 40 hours, with 50 hours being more common. The top dogs, on the other hand, are putting in 60+ hour weeks. If they don't, they lose their position.
 

smsc2009

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Money aside, I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here lifestyle-wise since dentists work less than average for all American workers.

The average dentist puts in a 35-40 hour workweek compared to 46 hours for the average American worker. Bankers and financial advisers are no exception. I've worked in multiple offices. Most business people put in at least 40 hours, with 50 hours being more common. The top dogs, on the other hand, are putting in 60+ hour weeks. If they don't, they lose their position.
Where are you getting these numbers? Anything you get from a magazine or the internet doesn't normally tell the whole story. For example, I know my dentist works about 50 hours a week in his office. He probably has emergency situations with his patients on occasion that require him to put more hours in. His office is always extremely busy when I go and he's aged a lot over the last couple of years (probably from the stress). On the other hand, I know a financial advisor who probably brings in at least 250k (guestimating on his lifestyle). He leaves home every morning at around 9:30 and is home sometimes as early as 4:30. His stress levels are probably much lower than my dentist. Yes, the dentist probably brings in about the same but combined with the amount of hours, stress, etc. My friend only has a bachelors degree. He doesn't have to worry about 100K+ in loans. The lifestyle is different, regardless of the data any source has collected.
 

jvanewportnews

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Since you asked the previous poster about where he got his facts from, it wouldn't be good to argue your point with "guesstimates". Dentists tend to have a low stress level, unless they own their own practice, then that's the stress of running a business. If you are just a dentist working in an office, then many of them work 4 days each week, regular hours. That can be about 36 hours a week, which sounds low stress to me. And I have a very hard time believing that a financial advisor with a bachelor's degree makes as much as a dentist. In these cases, I would say the 4 day week dentist has it better than the financial advisor.
 
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