Deposit For Holding Spot in class

[JWells488]

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Does anybody else think that it's pretty ridiculous that some schools require you to put down up to $2000 in a very short period of time to hold a spot in the class? Although I haven't gotten accepted anywhere yet, I do have some interviews coming up and I can see this is going to be a problem. My first interview is at St. John fisher and if I'm accepted, I will have to pay $1500 within two weeks to hold my spot. Meanwhile, some schools have only just begun to start looking at my application. I probably won't hear back from some of these schools until Late April and even into May.

I realize that schools need to look out for themselves, but 2 weeks is just not enough time to get information from enough schools to make a decision.

So how many of you will pay these outrageous deposits to get some insurance on your future? I know I will. I'll probably plan on paying the cheaper ones.

 

[pulsedriver]

I already put down 2 grand on a school that I'm not certain I'm going to.

I can't be 100% sure I'm going to get into my top choice so I had to do it.

 

[buddybud164]

That is a lot of money for the first deposit. The school that I got into only required a $500 deposit within 10 days if you applied ED and $300 by may if you applied RD. I applied ED so I paid $500 already to guarantee myself a spot. I thought that was a pretty reasonable amount.

 

[GrapeSoda]

Although that is a lot of money to put down, this is the only way the school can get an accurate count of how many spots they have open, so they know how many more students to interview and accept.

Another problem is that not all schools put the deposit towards tuition, so that money- is a gift to the school!

 

[labrat024]

Yeah Midwestern CCP has a $1000 deposit. I guess that's not too bad. At least it is applied toward the tuition! They only want serious people. Many applicants have interviews at many other schools that they would probably rather attend anyway. They are just trying to call your bluff and trying to see if you are willing to go all in.

 

[Knickerbocker]

As long as they apply it toward tuition, I have no complaints. It's their school, they set the rules. If they want to know that applicants are serious about attending their school, then I can't blame them.

 

[SeniorNewbie]

[Attention Admissions committees also...] It seems to me that a line needs to be drawn somewhere. What are you going to do when they ask for $5k, or $10k? Say, "It's their school, and they make the rules?"

I think this whole early offer, early deposit thing is unfair to the candidates.

I have an alternate suggestion. If you agree, I'd encourage you to mention this to your adcoms wherever/whenever you encounter them.

Like admission to undergrad, or even HS student athletes committing to a college, there should be a day before which no commitment from the student is asked for or expected. Offers are good from whenever they are made through that day plus a week or two. All schools recognize the day and get their offers in by that day. Upon arrival of that day, students need to make their commitments or lose their spot. This would offer the opportunity to the student to assess their offers and commit where they seriously intend to go, once and for all. Then the schools could do more rounds of acceptances based on the "hit rate" within that 2 weeks.

This acceptance game should not be viewed as a revenue opportunity by the schools. That's just not right. It looks like financial "chicken" at students/candidates expense.


I would invite adcoms to comment. Thanks.

 

[confettiflyer]

I think $2k is excessive... it should be $1k max. Schools need a way to bind you to the university. Sure, a cheap deposit is in your interest as you're waiting for other schools, but the school isn't looking out for your best interest, it is looking out for it's best interest.

Then again, an expensive deposit only works if you're a top school that attracts top students, and then that school has a vested interest in making it less attractive for students to jump ship.

If there's no financial disincentive to renege on an acceptance, schools will have less predictable numbers for starting classes, affecting all waitlisted applicants that year.

I do agree somewhat with SeniorNewbie...the most ideal system (IMO) would be 3-4 weeks to respond to an acceptance with a low $500 deposit, then a follow up final deposit by July of $1-2k. By then, you BETTER really want to go to that school you were waitlisted at and finally got into, because it will cost you $2500. This way, schools gets a "final" enrollment count by July, and you'll have heard from most of your schools by then.

But this won't happen...so keep dreaming and pay up.

 

[Knickerbocker]

To start, don't forget the ridiculous treatment of athletics over academics. For academics, *you/we* are the ones begging to get into the school. For athletics, the schools are the ones begging the athletes.

If you weren't really all that interested in the school, then you shouldn't have applied. There are anxious people out there who would be very happy to have your spot. Since you aren't sincere about the school, I'm going to have more sympathy for the student who really wants in than I am for you.

Also, $2000, while a lot now, isn't much in the grand scheme of things. Ten years from now, it won't be such a big deal that you lost your deposit to attend another school.

There are other, more unfair school practices to deal with, in my opinion.

 

[AngelaCL]

I think the high fees are really awful. I, for one, don't have a couple grand just laying around. I was worried that my number 2 school would accept me before my number 1, and I'd have to put down a thousand dollars for a spot before I'd even know if I got into my first choice. So I gambled and didn't finish my second choice application. I did end up getting into my first choice, and they only require $300 and it's not due until May 1.

I understand universities want an idea of class size, but if people turn down the spots they have dozens/hundreds of students on their wait lists, so I don't see what the big deal is. I agree that there should be a particular date where all deposits are due, so that we could look at all our acceptances and really get a chance to decide before we have to lay down all kinds of cash.

Thank god I have a large credit card limit - applying to pharmacy school is not cheap, and I feel really bad for students who can't afford it. Yeah, we'll make it up in wages later... but that's a cold comfort when you don't physically have the money now to take the PCAT/apply through Pharmcas/pay supplemental fees/pay holding fees.

 

[confettiflyer]

To start, don't forget the ridiculous treatment of athletics over academics. For academics, *you/we* are the ones begging to get into the school. For athletics, the schools are the ones begging the athletes.

But there is an economic reason for the placing of athletics on a pedestal at the university. Good recruits beget championship wins, which begets money, prestige, and increased applications to the university (aka the Doug Flutie effect).

These student athletes have a talent, and it makes sense for a university to recruit them. If it didn't make economic sense, it wouldn't have happened. Plus, in the end, NCAA athletes do have GPA requirements, so 10 years from now you wouldn't be able to tell the difference among all degree holders of a university.

 

[Knickerbocker]

But there is an economic reason for the placing of athletics on a pedestal at the university. Good recruits beget championship wins, which begets money, prestige, and increased applications to the university (aka the Doug Flutie effect).

These student athletes have a talent, and it makes sense for a university to recruit them. If it didn't make economic sense, it wouldn't have happened. Plus, in the end, NCAA athletes do have GPA requirements, so 10 years from now you wouldn't be able to tell the difference among all degree holders of a university.

I wasn't complaining about it; I was just reminding an earlier poster that athletes are treated better and that he wasn't going to receive such treatment for academics. But, now that you mention it, I will complain.

Some of us are quite talented as well. Although there are some incentives such as scholarships, it is quite pathetic compared to what athletes (who are often nearly illiterate criminals) are offered.

It quite often does *not* make economic sense. It does for the highest NCAA division schools, but other schools are wasting money. My school, for example, has lots of athletics fees hidden in various fees (as well as book store profits!). However, they are in the red every single year.

Schools are going to burn ridiculous amounts of money on athletics, regardless of profit or loss. They seem to have forgotten that the focus of school is supposed to be academics.

 

[SeniorNewbie]

I only used athletes as one of my examples. Undergraduate admissions follows the same rules. No deposits are required until the day all universities have had a chance to make their offers (assuming the candidates meet the submission time frame guidance).

Does anyone know if medical schools, optometry, dental, physical and/or occupational therapy schools follow this same asynchronous schedule we are following for pharmacy school?

 

[TrjTraddie]

Yeah Midwestern CCP has a $1000 deposit. I guess that's not too bad. At least it is applied toward the tuition! They only want serious people. Many applicants have interviews at many other schools that they would probably rather attend anyway. They are just trying to call your bluff and trying to see if you are willing to go all in.

holy mother.... with $1000 i could buy a NIIIICE camera (or help me buy a new computer). I like UCSF and USC's deposit a little better... $100 and $500 respectively. since these were the only two schools i applied to, I should be saving mucho dinero on deposit money (hopefully i'll get into ucsf first. that way i'll save $500!).

ANYWAY... you know pharmacy school admissions is largely driven by monetary profits. i am not sure $1000 deposit money is REALLY necessary. alas... what can we do about it?

 

[eelo]

Schools are going to burn ridiculous amounts of money on athletics, regardless of profit or loss. They seem to have forgotten that the focus of school is supposed to be academics.

Take a look around. How many hoodies or tire covers or lawn chairs do you see emblazoned with "Virginia Tech Forensic Team Rocks!" or "Washingon Huskies Debate"or anything like that. The big-name schools wit bigname athletic teams bring in bigname money. What were the $$ figures for Hawaii in the postseason game again? Something like $10 million? I read somewhere that the money they'd make off that one bowl game was more than they could expect to bring in from supporters in ten years. That's serious cash.

 

[Knickerbocker]

Take a look around. How many hoodies or tire covers or lawn chairs do you see emblazoned with "Virginia Tech Forensic Team Rocks!" or "Washingon Huskies Debate"or anything like that. The big-name schools wit bigname athletic teams bring in bigname money. What were the $$ figures for Hawaii in the postseason game again? Something like $10 million? I read somewhere that the money they'd make off that one bowl game was more than they could expect to bring in from supporters in ten years. That's serious cash.

Reread my whole post. I said that big name schools do turn a profit. Lower division schools, such as the one I attend, quite often don't make a profit and spend far more money than the programs cost. I know this for a fact because I interviewed a couple administrators for an editorial I once wrote.

 

[eelo]

Reread my whole post. I said that big name schools do turn a profit. Lower division schools, such as the one I attend, quite often don't make a profit and spend far more money than the programs cost. I know this for a fact because I interviewed a couple administrators for an editorial I once wrote.

That's true. Smaller schools also tend not to have as much money to throw out to athletes, so proportionally I'd say it's similar. Big name programs = big money, small programs = small money. The small schools would love to get the exposure that the big schools get; that's why every once in a while you'll see a Davidson or Chowan playing UNC.... for the money, especially if it's a televised game.

College athletics is a business. I don't know if you're old enough to remember Dexter Manley? He played for the Redskins, I think. Guy went to school (Georgia, maybe?) on a football scholarship, played top-calibre ball, got himself an NFL contract, made big bucks in the NFL.... and sued the college that gave him a diploma because he can't read. The guy was functionally illiterate, and when he finally realized his days of making money for dropping running backs were numbered, and that he needed to have something else to do with his life, suddenly that ability to read seemed so much more important.

I don't remember how it came out, but it was a pretty big scandal at the time and a lot of programs were exposed for rpushing top-level athletes through without making them meet academic standards.

But the biggest problems/scandals aren't with the schools, they're with the boosters. Those are the ones who are getting NCAA sanctions placed on schools.

 

[medicalCPA]

That's true. Smaller schools also tend not to have as much money to throw out to athletes, so proportionally I'd say it's similar. Big name programs = big money, small programs = small money. The small schools would love to get the exposure that the big schools get; that's why every once in a while you'll see a Davidson or Chowan playing UNC.... for the money, especially if it's a televised game.

College athletics is a business. I don't know if you're old enough to remember Dexter Manley? He played for the Redskins, I think. Guy went to school (Georgia, maybe?) on a football scholarship, played top-calibre ball, got himself an NFL contract, made big bucks in the NFL.... and sued the college that gave him a diploma because he can't read. The guy was functionally illiterate, and when he finally realized his days of making money for dropping running backs were numbered, and that he needed to have something else to do with his life, suddenly that ability to read seemed so much more important.

I don't remember how it came out, but it was a pretty big scandal at the time and a lot of programs were exposed for rpushing top-level athletes through without making them meet academic standards.

But the biggest problems/scandals aren't with the schools, they're with the boosters. Those are the ones who are getting NCAA sanctions placed on schools.

I do not know Dexter Manley, but in my opinion what he did was ******ed (and that's because I can't think of a better word right now). Call me old fashioned, but if you are college-age and you don't know how to read, the fault does not lie with the college, even though it was stupid enough to give you a baccalaureate degree.

 

[pharmgrl5]

This is going to seem a bit dumb but could someone explain to me what a deposit is for? Is it something you put down after you get an acceptance letter and before you officially "accept the acceptance"? My 2 schools I'm really interested in are University of Kansas and University of Washington and I've looked to see the deposit amounts and they are fair, definitely nowhere near $1000 even. BUT it doesn't explain very well what the deposit does specifically. Frankly if I got accepted to either school I'd be ecstatic but would prefer to wait to hear from both before making a decision.

Any help?

 

[misterpockets]

Some of us are quite talented as well. Although there are some incentives such as scholarships, it is quite pathetic compared to what athletes (who are often nearly illiterate criminals) are offered.

Dude, you really need to work on not letting comments like this come out of your head...

 

[AbsoluteEthanol]

The entire process, starting with pharmcas and ending with the deposit, is unfairly skewed in the favor of the pharmacy schools. However, the schools can get away with it because often times you have dozens of candidated applying for one spot, so that really gives the schools an unfair advantage. After graduating from pharmacy school i would love to form some sort of an alliance, to help advocate for the rights of pharm school candidates. what do you guys think about that!?

 

[Alby]

This is going to seem a bit dumb but could someone explain to me what a deposit is for? Is it something you put down after you get an acceptance letter and before you officially "accept the acceptance"? My 2 schools I'm really interested in are University of Kansas and University of Washington and I've looked to see the deposit amounts and they are fair, definitely nowhere near $1000 even. BUT it doesn't explain very well what the deposit does specifically. Frankly if I got accepted to either school I'd be ecstatic but would prefer to wait to hear from both before making a decision.

Any help?

When you receive an acceptance letter, you will be asked to pay a deposit to hold your position at that school. The school (varies among schools) will give you a deadline for paying (2 weeks - 1 month is what I have seen) or you lose your position. Commonly, but not exclusively, this deposit is applied to your tuition if you attend. However, if you do not attend, the deposit is non-refundable.

Because of rolling admissions, the deadline to pay the deposit often preceeds a decision on admissions from other schools. Therefore, if the school is not the candidates first choice, and he/she has yet to hear from their first choice, he/she must pay the deposit in order to keep the position.

On the other hand, schools have to operate this way, to force candidates to seriously consider the offer. Otherwise, a candidate could accept 5 different positions and pull out last minute leaving a bit of a scramble right before the semester begins. This still does happen, and commonly students are pulled off the waitlist the week before school begins. As you can imagine, this can be a bit of a scramble for that student and quite stressfull (I have seen this happen). Therefore, it is a good idea to let schools know when you have accepted a position (assuming that school is ranked below the school accepted on your personal list). This gives more time for the adcom to notify waitlisted students and more time for the student to make arrangements.

 

[eelo]

I do not know Dexter Manley, but in my opinion what he did was ******ed (and that's because I can't think of a better word right now). Call me old fashioned, but if you are college-age and you don't know how to read, the fault does not lie with the college, even though it was stupid enough to give you a baccalaureate degree.

Actually, it's a pretty interesting story. It was Oklahoma State (sorry), and like most people who can't read, Dexter learned as a child how to cover up his shortcoming. He became a discipline problem (very typical), and he also got very, very good at making opposing linemen quiver in their boots. If I remember correctly, part of the lawsuit was the fact that OSU made a TON of money off Dexter and Dexter's skills on the football field, but they failed him in the academic area (admittedly, many had failed long before he made it to college). I mean, the guy says he had a 6 on his SAT.... SIX. Not sixty, not even six hundred..... SIX. So basically the school exploited him; he was little more to them than a means of making a bunch of money from people who wanted to see him play football.

Since then, Dexter's had his ups and down, most notably an addiction problem for which he's served time. However, now that he's clean and sober, he makes appearances and speaks at schools and other public places, helping to send the message to kids that drugs can kill you. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_n12_v44/ai_8010811

 

[Knickerbocker]

.

 

[misterpockets]

What I said has a great deal of truth. The athletes at my school are some of the worst performing students. The school uses money to provide them with 1-on-1 tutoring (opportunities not available to other students). Even more sad is that they are tutored for the most basic classes.

And just read the papers - a certain school in Texas has had something like six of its team members arrested in the past year.

If you want to put your head in the sand, be my guest.

Nobody says, "what i said has a great deal of truth." what are you practicing for?
why are you spending energy getting pissed about people being tutored?
why is it sad when people get tutored for basic classes?
i'm sorry for getting off topic but you have a really bad attitude. you can't generalize about people like that, with your forced fake *** english, "often nearly illiterate criminals", the phrasing is more offensive than the blatant ignorance.
nobody's head is in the sand, you're just an *******.

 

[eelo]

What I said has a great deal of truth. The athletes at my school are some of the worst performing students. The school uses money to provide them with 1-on-1 tutoring (opportunities not available to other students). Even more sad is that they are tutored for the most basic classes.

And just read the papers - a certain school in Texas has had something like six of its team members arrested in the past year.

If you want to put your head in the sand, be my guest.

The vast majority of college athletes are the ones we don't hear about.... the ones playing volleyball, golf, tennis, gymnastics, soccer, crosscountry..... you know, all those uber-exciting events <sarc>. In the grand sceme of things, the bigname athletes at the elite schools in the money sports are proportionally few, compared to all athletes receiving full or partial funding through athletic scholarships. Go check the GPA of the gymnastic team, or the swimmers, or the lacrosse team, or any of the lower-tier sports.... those kids are scholar-athletes, and the athletic scholarships given them hrough Title IX programs are seriously offsetting teir college costs.

Yes, there are kids on football and basketball teams who get in trouble and who make news. But in the grand scheme of things, the vast majority of college students receiving funding for athletic scholarships aren't geting arrested and are doing well academically. The knuckleheads wo can catch the pigskin or shoot the trey are the ones bringing money into the school to pay for athletic and nonathletic scholarships alike. Yes, some of them are true jerks. But more and more, those are being weeded out.

That one-onone tutoring being provided for high-level athletes...... would that come in the form of paying other students to tutor them? That's not a bad gig for a brainiac to get, and it pays pretty well.

 

[Knickerbocker]

Nobody says, "what i said has a great deal of truth." what are you practicing for?
why are you spending energy getting pissed about people being tutored?
why is it sad when people get tutored for basic classes?
i'm sorry for getting off topic but you have a really bad attitude. you can't generalize about people like that, with your forced fake *** english, "often nearly illiterate criminals", the phrasing is more offensive than the blatant ignorance.
nobody's head is in the sand, you're just an *******.

This blatherskite is indubitably unworthy of further elucidation on my part.

 

[Knickerbocker]

The vast majority of college athletes are the ones we don't hear about.... the ones playing volleyball, golf, tennis, gymnastics,...

That one-onone tutoring being provided for high-level athletes...... would that come in the form of paying other students to tutor them? That's not a bad gig for a brainiac to get, and it pays pretty well.

You are right about me generalizing all student athletes, I will admit that.

My problem with the tutoring is that the money is coming from tuition and fees. In addition, the service is only offered to athletes. At least, that is how it works at my school.

 

[eelo]

You are right about me generalizing all student athletes, I will admit that.

My problem with the tutoring is that the money is coming from tuition and fees. In addition, the service is only offered to athletes. At least, that is how it works at my school.

Are you sure that's the source? If the tutors are employed in a workstudy program, then yes, it probably does come from tuition and fees, and if it really is as you say, I'd investigate that.... ALL students should have access to te same tutoring; it might be worth going public (grin). On the other and, if the payment is really coming from Boosters (the Good, Bad and Ugly of NCAA atletics), there isn't much you can do about it.

 

[Knickerbocker]

Are you sure that's the source? If the tutors are employed in a workstudy program, then yes, it probably does come from tuition and fees, and if it really is as you say, I'd investigate that.... ALL students should have access to te same tutoring; it might be worth going public (grin). On the other and, if the payment is really coming from Boosters (the Good, Bad and Ugly of NCAA atletics), there isn't much you can do about it.

It probably comes from fees, but I'm sure they'd claim Boosters. Another thing that makes me cringe is that my tuition helps to support and build weight rooms, tracks, courts, fields, etc., but I am forbidden from using some of it.

In the past, we've had some public exposure of atheltics, but nothing is being done. For example, revenue from parking tickets is used to support some scholarships, but most of it is for athletics scholarships. In addition, profits from the school bookstore also go to athletics.

We're not a profitable school like Oklahoma State or UCLA, so all of this money is going into an endlessly deep hole.

 

[eelo]

It probably comes from fees, but I'm sure they'd claim Boosters. Another thing that makes me cringe is that my tuition helps to support and build weight rooms, tracks, courts, fields, etc., but I am forbidden from using some of it.

In the past, we've had some public exposure of atheltics, but nothing is being done. For example, revenue from parking tickets is used to support some scholarships, but most of it is for athletics scholarships. In addition, profits from the school bookstore also go to athletics.

We're not a profitable school like Oklahoma State or UCLA, so all of this money is going into an endlessly deep hole.

Well, your tuition probably also goes to support things like foreign language labs or other amenities that if you're not in a specific program, you probably can't use.

Are you at a public or private institution? The rules might be different for public vs. private; I don't know. Still, it might be worth asking for an audit of how scholarship funds are raised/distribted.

An easier path might just be funding your own scholarship for one or two deserving students, after you've got your PharmD and are making The Big Bucks. ;-) Heck, I've considered purchasing small properties and making them available by 'scholarship' to students who qualify for them (GPA between 2.8-3.2, PCAT between 65-85, a truly Average Joe/Josie). It would be my scholarship; I'd set the qualifications. But seriously, if you absorbed the expense of shelter for a deserving student (or two), that would be a very desireable scholarsip, in my opinion, and you could set your own terms.

"Knickerbocker: Breaking the Athletic mold, one pharmacist at a time......"

 

[confettiflyer]

eelo you are my hero. I'd type a response but, instead.... +1 on all your posts, haha.

In a perfect world, we'd all respond and not pay deposits, and give courtesy when we decline a school; the reality is, we're all crazy selfish bastards who don't give a crap when there are >2 acceptances. The end 😀

 

[mudfish512]

When you receive an acceptance letter, you will be asked to pay a deposit to hold your position at that school. The school (varies among schools) will give you a deadline for paying (2 weeks - 1 month is what I have seen) or you lose your position. Commonly, but not exclusively, this deposit is applied to your tuition if you attend. However, if you do not attend, the deposit is non-refundable.

Because of rolling admissions, the deadline to pay the deposit often preceeds a decision on admissions from other schools. Therefore, if the school is not the candidates first choice, and he/she has yet to hear from their first choice, he/she must pay the deposit in order to keep the position.

On the other hand, schools have to operate this way, to force candidates to seriously consider the offer. Otherwise, a candidate could accept 5 different positions and pull out last minute leaving a bit of a scramble right before the semester begins. This still does happen, and commonly students are pulled off the waitlist the week before school begins. As you can imagine, this can be a bit of a scramble for that student and quite stressfull (I have seen this happen). Therefore, it is a good idea to let schools know when you have accepted a position (assuming that school is ranked below the school accepted on your personal list). This gives more time for the adcom to notify waitlisted students and more time for the student to make arrangements.

So does that mean that the "enrollment intention" response and deposits are not binding? Once you have put down a deposit at one school, will it affect the possibility of being admitted at another school?

 

[Alby]

So does that mean that the "enrollment intention" response and deposits are not binding? Once you have put down a deposit at one school, will it affect the possibility of being admitted at another school?

No it is not binding, you will just lose your deposit. Many students put down deposits for multiple schools in the hopes that their first choice will come calling. I am fairly sure it does not affect your chances at admissions at another school. The schools are not aware of where else you have been accepted (unless you spill the beans in your interview).

 

[AngelaCL]

I agree with Knickerbocker that it's incredibly frustrating to see the advantages some student athletes get. I mean, I went to undergraduate school at Purdue. The first man to walk on the moon went to college here - we have some really bright minds. Yet, the number of academic scholarships is very small. I believe 150 students get full tuition (not housing or books or anything else) for being the best academically. That many students on the football team alone get full-rides, tutoring, etc. for knowing how to run and catch a ball. And by no means are most athletes criminals - but it's not an insignificant number. When I was in school down there, one former football player beat and attempted rape 3 women, one player harassed and assaulted another player because of his race, I believe a football or basketball player was involved in a hit-and-run, another in a DUI.... And yet, they got better financial deals than the overwhelming majority of students there. Some of my former classmates are going to be engineers, astronauts, doctors, researchers, teachers... They are going to shape the world, not the people who are just there to play ball.

(Disclaimer: Some athletes are, of course, good people and intelligent and there to learn too. Most of them aren't going around beating and raping people, thankfully. And some non-athletes are criminals too. I still understand the frustration of student athletes being idolized when those who excell academically instead of athletically are ignored. University should primarily be a place of learning, not playing.)

 

[JWells488]

I don't understand all the hating on the atheletics. They get their school payed for for a reason. Because they earn the school money. It's beneficial to have them at the school so the school gives them money.

They don't get full scholarships because they can run and catch a ball. They get it because they have a talent that 99% of people don't have. Is that important enough to grant them a free college education? Well, that's up to the school. And if people keep paying to see the athletes play, the school will want the best athletes to have a good team and get even more people to pay for tickets. So maybe it's the society that loves sports that you are against, because schools are just being economically rational.

 

[Knickerbocker]

I don't understand all the hating on the atheletics. They get their school payed for for a reason. Because they earn the school money. It's beneficial to have them at the school so the school gives them money.

They don't get full scholarships because they can run and catch a ball. They get it because they have a talent that 99% of people don't have. Is that important enough to grant them a free college education? Well, that's up to the school. And if people keep paying to see the athletes play, the school will want the best athletes to have a good team and get even more people to pay for tickets. So maybe it's the society that loves sports that you are against, because schools are just being economically rational.

You've skipped a huge part of this argument. Big schools do often turn a profit from athletics. Many small schools, such as the one I attend, lose money every year.

There is nothing economically rational about schools such as mine throwing money into an athletics black hole.

 

[genesis09]

My university was having major financial problems when I started undergraduate here. The state made them return several million dollars. The way they mostly dealt with it was to decrease number of students and by making classes larger. However, when some suggested to cut Athletic Scholarships and competitive sports, they refused to do so. Sports have never been a big thing at UIC. I don't even know if they make money, and we're a division 1 school.

 

[AngelaCL]

Football and men's basketball make money for big schools. Even for the biggest schools, I somehow doubt that the track team and golf team is bringing in the bucks.

Yeah, it's society that is screwed up in its priorities. I know sometimes Booster clubs are full of alumni who want to donate specifically for athletics, so that's why they get the money. It's just ****ed up.

 

[Alby]

Hijacked again!

 

[eelo]

Football and men's basketball make money for big schools. Even for the biggest schools, I somehow doubt that the track team and golf team is bringing in the bucks.

Yeah, it's society that is screwed up in its priorities. I know sometimes Booster clubs are full of alumni who want to donate specifically for athletics, so that's why they get the money. It's just ****ed up.

Well, yes. And the way for YOU to un**** it is to endow a scholarship of your own when you are a pharmacist making The Big Bucks. On a pharmacist's salary, you could reasonably offset substantial expenses for one, two, maybe three students a year. Buy a nice condo near your alma mater and make it available to specific students as part of a scholarship; you'd essentially be absorbing their expenses for shelter. Or set up a plan to purchase the books for one or more students every year. Or maybe just start a scholarship fun with specific criteria, that doles out a grand or two to each recipient. You might start a trend, getting doctors and lawyers to do the same thing for students in med or law school.

If you're not prepared to do that, quit bitching about athletic boosters who are ready, willing and able to put their money where their mouth is.

Also- I'm curious to know what school you're talking about that offers >150 full-ride scholarships to football players?

 

[confettiflyer]

Yeah...I mean, who really cares about Division III football anyway?

::waits for flaming:::

 

[genesis09]

My university haven't had competitive football since the 1970s. It was dropped due to lack of interest. At the time, the school was not division 1. We became division 1 in the 1980s.

 

[eelo]

I agree with Knickerbocker that it's incredibly frustrating to see the advantages some student athletes get. I mean, I went to undergraduate school at Purdue. The first man to walk on the moon went to college here - we have some really bright minds. Yet, the number of academic scholarships is very small. I believe 150 students get full tuition (not housing or books or anything else) for being the best academically. That many students on the football team alone get full-rides, tutoring, etc. for knowing how to run and catch a ball. .)

It's clear that you're not well informed about the rules dictating how many scholarships are made available to athletes. From http://fwnextweb1.fortwayne.com/ns/projects/title9/title95.php

A third issue that concerns football is the amount of scholarships allotted to team members. The NCAA allows schools competing at the Division I level to use 85 scholarships per year on football. Add in walk-ons, and roster sizes often top the 100-player level at some schools.

So, no matter how much you may want to believe it, Purdue couldn't possibly have awarded over 150 football scholarships; they're limited to 85, tops, and not all 85 of those are full-ride. Additionally, those students aren't getting money for "...knowing how to run and catch a ball." First of all, if it was that easy, how about YOU go do it? Secondly, some of them are on scholarships for being able to kick a ball, or block a defender, or take down opposing quarterbacks.

And while you may be rightfully proud of your school's contribution to the space program, it is blatantly unfair to imply that going to Purdue resulted in walking on the moon. Purdue didn't train him to be an astronaut. If anything, give credit where credit is actually due: the military space programs that selected top-notch candidates from all branches of the service and trained them to literally go where no man has gone before. (Interestingly enough, Neil Armstrong attended Purdue on a ROTC scholarship, which is as close to full-ride as one can get. http://www.answers.com/topic/neil-armstrong)

Further, keep in mind that Title IX requires schools that provide scholarships for big-name, money sports do the same for the not-so-big sports. There are probably several field hockey or lacrosse players who are receiving athletic scholarships also.

 

[AngelaCL]

You're right - my number of 150 football scholarships is off - that's the number I've heard before, but I guess I should have done research myself. I apologize. However, there are certainly 100s of students from various teams who are getting fantastic athletic scholarships. And in any case, I was one of the lucky ones to get full tuition for academics, so it's not like I feel the athletes got money I was entitled to, or something (thought it would have been cool to get free room and board).

And no, I can't run or throw a ball - but I really don't think it's one of the most important skills one can have in our society, even though it is rewarded that way. My point is simply that I don't think it's right that athletic ability is prized over academic ability in our country, and it is.

 

[eelo]

You're right - my number of 150 football scholarships is off - that's the number I've heard before, but I guess I should have done research myself. I apologize. However, there are certainly 100s of students from various teams who are getting fantastic athletic scholarships. And in any case, I was one of the lucky ones to get full tuition for academics, so it's not like I feel the athletes got money I was entitled to, or something (thought it would have been cool to get free room and board).

And no, I can't run or throw a ball - but I really don't think it's one of the most important skills one can have in our society, even though it is rewarded that way. My point is simply that I don't think it's right that athletic ability is prized over academic ability in our country, and it is.

Don't think of it as "athletic ability," think of it as 'marketability.' Athlees are entertainers with buff bods. ;-) It's a matter of economics: as long as people continue to pay out the money to see these people perform, then the performers have a legitimate claim to reap the financial benefits that are to be gained from their skills. Elite-level athletes (think pros here) don't just 'happen;' those kids have spent years and years cultivating their skills. Most of them are forbidden to take any sort of employment while in college so while you might be able to do three or four years tech-ing at Wags, they can't do that because of NCAA limitations. And realistically, if their primary skill is blocking opposing linemen, what happens if they have one of those career-ending injuries at age 28? This is a person who has spent the last 20 years grooming and being groomed for elite-level competition, who maybe got five good wage-earning years. At 40, they have the body of a 60 year old, and it's going to get exponentially worse with age. Those five years may have turned out to be the primary source of income for this person, so why not let them make as much as the market will bear to pay him?

If you truly have a complaint with this, empty out your iPod and your collection of DVDs (c'mon, how smart do you have to be to sing a song, fercripessake), stop watching televised sports, get rid of all those Boilermakers shirts in your closet (unless they say "Purdue Pre-Pharm"), and start sending money back to Purdue for your 'academic full-ride," much of which was provided by income generated by Div I sports. Are you aware that some big-name colleges make millions of dollars a year on athletics? Millions! That sure pays for a lot of 'academic full rides' for pre-pharm students.

So, are you planning to endow a scholarship after you graduate, or do something to offset the expenses for a couple of pre-pharms? You can get a REAL nice place in West Lafayette for under $100K, set your own criteria for scholarship, and provide shelter for a starving pharmacy student or two. How cool would that be?

Athletic boosters in all walks of life, and at all income levels, donate millions of dollars to schools to provide scholarships for deserving students (atletes and nonathletes). They do this for the privilege of flying the flag of the school and for bragging rights. Those bragging rights pay the freight for a lot of kids.

 

[AngelaCL]

The volleyball team members get full rides, and they aren't bringing much money into the schools. They aren't going to make careers out of being professional volleyball players (okay, I'm sure a few people make money at this but it's rarer than becoming professional football players), Same with the track team, the golf team, etc. And like some people said, their schools actually lose money on athletics!

Oh, and I don't have an iPod or spend money on music (radio is free!), I can't stand watching sports on TV or otherwise, and my Purdue tee-shirt does say "School of Pharmacy on it. 🙂

That's an interesting idea, to create a scholarship after graduation. I will consider that (though it won't involve Lafayette - I'm not going to pharmacy school there and don't want to own land around there). I will definitely consider that years from now!

And with that, I bow out of the conversation unless you'd like to PM me, as it has little to do with the original post and I'm running out of things to say anyway.

 

[glowinglimabean]

I think $2,000 is excessive, but I would be willing to pay that amount if it is for a school that I really like. I think they do this to deter people from changing their minds. Example, a school whose required deposit is $500 will have more not so interested students willing to hold their seats. Then if that school was not their top choice it is likely that they will decline their seat for the fall. That's my theory. I am not saying that it is convenient, but it's the schools strategy to have solid interested candidates. So, make that deposit only if you really want to go.

 

[faulkner41]

first of all i would just like to say that the deposit thing does kind of get us pre-pharm students by the wedding tackle... fees get expensive!

secondly, i would also like to add that athletics at a school are NOT BAD!!! i am a college baseball player myself who once had the aspirations of being a professional baseball player and now am a future pharmacy student... it sickens me when someone downs athletics as "unimportant" and labels athletes in a negative light! yes, there are bad eggs, but i will tell you this... while playing COLLEGE BASEBALL (which is a full-time job i might add) i managed to maintain a decent GPA (3.2), get a BS in Biology, and get a decent PCAT (73) which is pretty much par for the course with many of you on here... these SO CALLED academians who are "holier-than-thou" kind of piss me off since they look down on athletes as second-class uneducated free-riders who will never amount to anything! i know many of you have WAY BETTER stats than i do but i WILL tell you one thing! without having to worry about BEING WELL-ROUNDED, (playing college ball and undertaking the school's hardest major), i could have EASILY maintained in the upper 3's with my GPA... if not for having to worry about things such as daily four hour practices, mid-week games, weekend three-game series, road trips, and team workouts, I COULD HAVE DOMINATED SCHOOL! so before you go looking down your nose at athletes thinking you are more entitled than them i ask you to do either one of two things: walk a mile in THEIR shoes (going to practices, hard workouts, getting the crap kicked out of you in games/practices, AND THEN having to worry about maintaining good grades), or just be glad that you ONLY HAVE SCHOOL TO FOCUS ON, because if i were in YOUR shoes, i would have been in pharmacy school LAST YEAR! just my two cents! sorry for ranting!

and please don't tell me you have a job to worry about while taking classes, because i have one of those as well... k, im done now

 

[txpharm2b]

An easier path might just be funding your own scholarship for one or two deserving students, after you've got your PharmD and are making The Big Bucks. ;-) Heck, I've considered purchasing small properties and making them available by 'scholarship' to students who qualify for them (GPA between 2.8-3.2, PCAT between 65-85, a truly Average Joe/Josie). It would be my scholarship; I'd set the qualifications. But seriously, if you absorbed the expense of shelter for a deserving student (or two), that would be a very desireable scholarsip, in my opinion, and you could set your own terms.

Hey, that could be made to be tax deductible, too, couldn't it?