Depressing news...

[Gladiolus23]

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[ridethecliche]

What are you talking about.

They're going to look at percentiles just like every other time. There was a thread on this yesterday.

Also:

 

[jd989898]

How is this depressing news?

"A 520/528 may equate to a 36 but what if it's much easier to get a 36 on the old exam than it is to get a 520 on the new one?! Schools are not accounting for this difference."

What if it's much easier to get the 520 than it is to 36? By this logic, isn't it equally likely that the supposed judgement of the new scores could benefit you?

 

[LizzyM]

Would you please relax. No one has even taken the exam yet. No adcom has seen an applicant with a new score. If I like someone who's old score is in the 95-98 percentile, I'm going to like someone who has a new score that is in the 95-98 percentile. Whether it is easier or harder to get a high score on the exam may depend on who is taking the test. There will be people who will do well regardless as well as "winners" and "whiners".

 

[Lannister]

Lol I can't believe you called half of the medical schools in the US. How long did that take you? That time probably would've been better spent studying for the MCAT, since you're so worried about it.

It is what it is. It stinks that they had to change it the year we're taking it, but whatever. Nothing we can do about it.

 

[cidem2065]

Which half did you call? I'll start working on the other half...

 

[Aloft085]

So I just finished calling almost half of America's medical schools for information on how new MCAT scores would be evaluated, and I've got zero feedback. No one knows anything about the new exam and I'm afraid they will almost automatically favor an old MCAT applicant over me, just because adcoms are familiar with it. A lot of the schools mentioned they would focus on the scores more than percentiles and that's upsetting. I mean, who knows? A 520/528 may equate to a 36 but what if it's much easier to get a 36 on the old exam than it is to get a 520 on the new one?! Schools are not accounting for this difference.

The AAMC has been extremely demoralizing these past few months…how I wish they had pushed back this exam to account for 2017 matriculants. It would have saved applicants and schools a lot of stress so that they wouldn't have to deal with a mixed applicant pool! I feel like I've lost all motivation…I know this is something I can't control but this uncertainty is killing me. After all this hard work, my perfectly solid app could end because of the new MCAT...

Dude, seriously. All of that time you wasted calling medical schools could have been spent studying for the new test, which I assume you've yet to take. How to compare old scores vs new scores is a problem for medical school faculty, not for you. Some schools may count your grade for more than it's worth, and some for less. If you apply to a large number of schools, it'll probably all be a wash in the end. Chill the f out.

Likely what will happen is that AAMC will publish an equivalency chart of some kind for schools to use. It'll be based on percentages. You'll be at no disadvantage compared to someone who took the old test, unless you just happen to be weak in the newer subjects.

 

[radiologyology]

Just kill the test and then don't worry about it. There will be many more to come that are even more nerve-wracking.

 

[Goro]

Pay attention to my wise colleague.

The new exam will NOT be written in Korean either.

OP, will you at least give us Adcoms SOME credit that we're smart enough to look at percentiles?

And the majority of med schools will be accepting the old MCAT for the next TWO app cycles!

Would you please relax. No one has even taken the exam yet. No adcom has seen an applicant with a new score. If I like someone who's old score is in the 95-98 percentile, I'm going to like someone who has a new score that is in the 95-98 percentile. Whether it is easier or harder to get a high score on the exam may depend on who is taking the test. There will be people who will do well regardless as well as "winners" and "whiners".

 

[Lysinee]

Which half did you call? I'll start working on the other half...

No one works for free. You gotta demand $

 

[cadingcading]

So I just finished calling almost half of America's medical schools for information on how new MCAT scores would be evaluated, and I've got zero feedback. No one knows anything about the new exam and I'm afraid they will almost automatically favor an old MCAT applicant over me, just because adcoms are familiar with it. A lot of the schools mentioned they would focus on the scores more than percentiles and that's upsetting. I mean, who knows? A 520/528 may equate to a 36 but what if it's much easier to get a 36 on the old exam than it is to get a 520 on the new one?! Schools are not accounting for this difference.

The AAMC has been extremely demoralizing these past few months…how I wish they had pushed back this exam to account for 2017 matriculants. It would have saved applicants and schools a lot of stress so that they wouldn't have to deal with a mixed applicant pool! I feel like I've lost all motivation…I know this is something I can't control but this uncertainty is killing me. After all this hard work, my perfectly solid app could end because of the new MCAT...

I actually heard the opposite that those with the old mcat scores will be at a disadvantage in the new mcat pool for the next cycle. On the other hand, I've also heard that adcoms won't know what to do with the new scores. Looks like a mess. If I have to take the new mcat I would prefer to wait a cycle or two until they work out all the kinks.

 

[raiderette]

Most people were on vacation until today...you can't even trust the answer. I am waiting to see what the minimum scores schools are requesting for the ED requirements to see what they consider an acceptable score.

 

[Ismet]

 

[mimelim]

Pay attention to my wise colleague.

The new exam will NOT be written in Korean either.

OP, will you at least give us Adcoms SOME credit that we're smart enough to look at percentiles?

And the majority of med schools will be accepting the old MCAT for the next TWO app cycles!

This is a common thing that I'm seeing. A lot of questions stem from the assumption that admissions committees do random things or are stupid. If you assume that admissions committees are made up of at a minimum average intelligence individuals, a lot more things start making sense.

 

[MrLogan13]

Chill out, man. Worry about what you need to do: do well on the MCAT.

 

[Doctor Dream]

So I just finished calling almost half of America's medical schools for information on how new MCAT scores would be evaluated, and I've got zero feedback. No one knows anything about the new exam and I'm afraid they will almost automatically favor an old MCAT applicant over me, just because adcoms are familiar with it. A lot of the schools mentioned they would focus on the scores more than percentiles and that's upsetting. I mean, who knows? A 520/528 may equate to a 36 but what if it's much easier to get a 36 on the old exam than it is to get a 520 on the new one?! Schools are not accounting for this difference.

I'm just a pre-med like you and I guarantee you that's not the case, just because I can think logically. What the f*** kind of admission process would put applicants at a disadvantage for taking a different form of an exam administered by the same people? That would be totally unfair. So unfair in fact, that that isn't the way things work.

Seriously hoping you didn't actually call 50+ or however many med schools asking this question, yikes dude.

 

[ltrlianall]

There will be many more to come that are even more nerve-wracking.

 

[Gastrapathy]

I called my old admissions office and they already have a conversion formula that the AAMC is about to publish:

Old MCAT score = (new MCAT score - 500)/45 * 3ˆ3/(new MCAT score - 5x10ˆ2) divided by 1/5 +22


COME ON KID! Focus on what you can control and get a handle on your anxiety.

 

[ridethecliche]

I called my old admissions office and they already have a conversion formula that the AAMC is about to publish:

Old MCAT score = (new MCAT score - 500)/45 * 3ˆ3/(new MCAT score - 5x10ˆ2) divided by 1/5 +22

You forgot to use chain rule.

 

[Mad Jack]

There will be a conversion tool online before the first person gets their scores back, guaranteed. You guys really need to chill and stop acting as if the sky is falling.

 

[Salt Salt]

One word for you: percentiles. (My non-premed friends always ask me if the MCAT was hard, and I always have to politely explain why that question is incoherent and explain percentiles to them.)

 

[040111333]

One word for you: percentiles. (My non-premed friends always ask me if the MCAT was hard, and I always have to politely explain why that question is incoherent and explain percentiles to them.)

Could someone please explain to me how these percentiles are set? Will the new percentiles depend on how the majority of students did in the first few 2015 exams? Is that why they need all that student data to give us a score?

 

[AlphaKY1]

One word for you: percentiles. (My non-premed friends always ask me if the MCAT was hard, and I always have to politely explain why that question is incoherent and explain percentiles to them.)

Yup. Everytime I'm asked my score I just tell them the percentile as a way to avoid the "is that good?" question.

 

[pithy84]

(My non-premed friends always ask me if the MCAT was hard, and I always have to politely explain why that question is incoherent and explain percentiles to them.)

Two tests that are both scored as percentile rank can still be different levels of difficulty.

Example: The MCAT and a blood pressure test (using an inflatable cuff). Both can give a percentile score, with the right conversion table. The blood pressure test is much easier. Heck, you don't even need to be awake to take the blood pressure test.

Having been an SAT and GRE tutor for a long time, I can say that the GRE is subjectively easier than the MCAT. If one person took both tests, I don't know how their percentiles would compare. However, the GRE feels easier. The math on the GRE just feels easy for most college graduates.

Add to that, your GRE score is generally less important than your MCAT score, although it is heavily dependent on what program you are applying to. Many humanities PhD programs require a GRE score but seem to hardly look at it, in my experience.

Caveat: I am talking about subjective difficulty, i.e. whether the test feels easy or hard. That is probably what your friends are asking about, because that is the only question that makes sense, and it is the only question you can possibly answer.

Another metric of difficulty is how hard it is to get a good score. Some people find it very easy to get a great score on the MCAT, but they have terrible high blood pressure because of a genetic disorder. You can't bring down your blood pressure by studying, you need drugs. In some sense, getting a healthy blood pressure can be much harder than getting a good MCAT score, depending on the brain and genes you were born with. But that is not what your friends are asking.

 

[040111333]

Two tests that are both scored as percentile rank can still be different levels of difficulty.

But are the percentile ranks adjusted to accommodate this difficulty? For example, on the new MCAT, would it be just as hard as it is right now to score in the 95th percentile or would it be harder/easier?

 

[Salt Salt]

Two tests that are both scored as percentile rank can still be different levels of difficulty.

Example: The MCAT and a blood pressure test (using an inflatable cuff). Both can give a percentile score, with the right conversion table. The blood pressure test is much easier. Heck, you don't even need to be awake to take the blood pressure test.

Having been an SAT and GRE tutor for a long time, I can say that the GRE is subjectively easier than the MCAT. If one person took both tests, I don't know how their percentiles would compare. However, the GRE feels easier. The math on the GRE just feels easy for most college graduates.

Add to that, your GRE score is generally less important than your MCAT score, although it is heavily dependent on what program you are applying to. Many humanities PhD programs require a GRE score but seem to hardly look at it, in my experience.

A blood pressure test isn't the same type of "test" as the MCAT at all, though. It's just a coincidence that we use "test" as the same word for both a measurement of blood pressure and a measurement of intelligence.

Your next point is about how the GRE "feels" easier. Of course, when someone asks if a test is hard, what they mean is, "Is it hard to get a high score?" Not, "Does the test feel easy, regardless of whether it is or isn't?" I will grant you that the GRE and MCAT might ACTUALLY be different in terms of difficulty (i.e. it's harder to score in the 90th percentile of one than the other) if your "competition" in one test is smarter than the "competition" in the other.

Last but not least, the relative weight of the test to your application (whether to med school or to graduate school in the humanities) is not what people mean when they say a test was difficult or not.

 

[pithy84]

Yup. Everytime I'm asked my score I just tell them the percentile as a way to avoid the "is that good?" question.

Just giving the percentile doesn't tell them much about your chances of acceptance to med school. Most non-premeds who hear "90th percentile" will severely overestimate your chances of getting an acceptance.

If the person is just making small talk, I would just give my percentile.

If the person actually cares, I would give my percentile, then give my scaled score (from 3 to 45) and then place it in context with the median score at Harvard and the median score at Home State University. That takes more time to explain, but unlike the approach above, it actually gives them useful information and some context.

 

[Salt Salt]

But are the percentile ranks adjusted to accommodate this difficulty? For example, on the new MCAT, would it be just as hard as it is right now to score in the 95th percentile or would it be harder/easier?

Assuming that no changes in the population have occurred (i.e. the average intelligence has not changed) it will be not be any harder to score the same percentile as on the old mcat. That's the glory of percentiles!

 

[Salt Salt]

.

 

[040111333]

Assuming that no changes in the population have occurred (i.e. the average intelligence has not changed) it will be not be any harder to score the same percentile as on the old mcat. That's the glory of percentiles!

Oh I see, so that's why people have been suggesting to keep old AAMC exams and try to score 35 + on them? I didn't get how scoring a 35+ on the old AAMC's would help me predict my score on the new one...Haha I'm definitely assuming the pre-med population stays the same.

 

[pithy84]

A blood pressure test isn't the same type of "test" as the MCAT at all, though. It's just a coincidence that we use "test" as the same word for both a measurement of blood pressure and a measurement of intelligence.

It is not a coincidence in any way. They are both tests. They are both procedures designed to measure some aspect of a human being and then report the result, as a number or set of numbers. These "test results" (numbers) are used, in both cases, to predict the person's future. The MCAT predicts whether you will be a good med student and doctor, hopefully. The blood pressure predicts whether you will die of cardiovascular disease, and whether you need drugs to prevent death.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand what people are asking when they ask "how hard is this test". That's okay, the people asking often have not thought carefully about the question either. If pressed, they probably would have to think about how they define "hard".

The most natural definition of "hard" is subjective difficulty - how hard does it feel. Other definitions of "hard" are either less useful (e.g. how many people get a perfect score) or less natural.

 

[Salt Salt]

It is not a coincidence in any way. They are both tests. They are both procedures designed to measure some aspect of a human being and then report the result, as a number or set of numbers. These "test results" (numbers) are used, in both cases, to predict the person's future. The MCAT predicts whether you will be a good med student and doctor, hopefully. The blood pressure predicts whether you will die of cardiovascular disease, and whether you need drugs to prevent death.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand what people are asking when they ask "how hard is this test". That's okay, the people asking often have not thought carefully about the question either. If pressed, they probably would have to think about how they define "hard".

The most natural definition of "hard" is subjective difficulty - how hard does it feel. Other definitions of "hard" are either less useful (e.g. how many people get a perfect score) or less natural.

I definitely don't think people are asking "How hard will the test feel?" when they say, "Is the test hard?" They're asking, well... how *hard* it is. This question makes sense when asking about a driver's license test, which has an objective bar that everyone does or does not meet, but it doesn't make sense when asking about an entrance examination where the point is to compare you to other test takers (as I've pointed out, the only way that such a test can be "hard" or not is based on how skilled the other people taking it are; the only way "Is the MCAT hard?" can be a logical question is if we mean "Are the people taking this test (and thus competing with you) very bright?")

So even if we think the use of the word "test" means exactly the same for both the mcat and blood pressure measurement, we have to acknowledgement that the blood pressure test is "easier" only in that it requires less effort to take the test. In the vast majority of instances, asking someone if a test is "hard" isn't asking them about their feelings during the four hour period of taking the test; it's asking them if they think it is difficult to do well.

 

[Salt Salt]

Oh I see, so that's why people have been suggesting to keep old AAMC exams and try to score 35 + on them? I didn't get how scoring a 35+ on the old AAMC's would help me predict my score on the new one...Haha I'm definitely assuming the pre-med population stays the same.

What I'm saying doesn't entail any specific study strategies. I'm just saying that the mcat is just a means of comparing applicants to each other; thus, OP's initial worry about how they will interpret scores was unfounded.

 

[g gnome]

One adcom member that I interviewed with this year brought up the new MCATs, and she said that they would be looking at the percentiles, just as they do now. She also believed that the new MCATs were a move in the right direction.

 

[DokterMom]

But are the percentile ranks adjusted to accommodate this difficulty? For example, on the new MCAT, would it be just as hard as it is right now to score in the 95th percentile or would it be harder/easier?

Your being compared to a comparable group of test-takers being tested on comparable subject matter in a comparable format.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the two tests will be, uh, comparable.

 

[Aloft085]

Seriously hoping you didn't actually call 50+ or however many med schools asking this question, yikes dude.

Even just calling 10 schools for the same question is pretty nutso. I hope nobody took his name down!

 

[Aloft085]

One word for you: percentiles. (My non-premed friends always ask me if the MCAT was hard, and I always have to politely explain why that question is incoherent and explain percentiles to them.)

Eh? I don't think that's an incoherent question. It's implied that by 'hard', they mean hard to do well enough to achieve a score capable of getting you accepted. I just tell them that it's probably the hardest entrance exam for any type of school in the United States. Pretty sure that's an accurate statement.

 

[Aloft085]

But are the percentile ranks adjusted to accommodate this difficulty? For example, on the new MCAT, would it be just as hard as it is right now to score in the 95th percentile or would it be harder/easier?

The only thing that would make a percentile-based test "harder" or "easier" on a large scale would be a substantial change in the quality of students taking the test. That's not going to happen. Well, that could happen over decades, but that's not really your question. Whether or not the new test is harder for you depends on whether or not you're stronger or weaker in the new subject matter being tested.

 

[Salt Salt]

Eh? I don't think that's an incoherent question. It's implied that by 'hard', they mean hard to do well enough to achieve a score capable of getting you accepted. I just tell them that it's probably the hardest entrance exam for any type of school in the United States. Pretty sure that's an accurate statement.

That's a legitimate point, and as I said after that post you quoted, I think the question "Is it hard?" would make sense if you interpreted it as "Is the competition tough?" But I just don't think most people are thinking of it that way when they ask if "the test is hard." Otherwise they'd just ask if admission is really competitive or something.

 

[Salt Salt]

The very phrasing of "Is the test hard?" puts the emphasis on the test itself. If people really understood how the test works, they'd ask, "What's the average percentile for accepted applicants?" That's a more useful question.

 

[AlphaKY1]

Just giving the percentile doesn't tell them much about your chances of acceptance to med school. Most non-premeds who hear "90th percentile" will severely overestimate your chances of getting an acceptance.

If the person is just making small talk, I would just give my percentile.

If the person actually cares, I would give my percentile, then give my scaled score (from 3 to 45) and then place it in context with the median score at Harvard and the median score at Home State University. That takes more time to explain, but unlike the approach above, it actually gives them useful information and some context.

Right. This is true, but you can quickly and easily gauge someone's interest. If I get a simple "nice," then I feel it is unnecessary to continue. If, however, the response is more along the lines of saying I should get in easily then I explain.

 

[Aloft085]

The very phrasing of "Is the test hard?" puts the emphasis on the test itself. If people really understood how the test works, they'd ask, "What's the average percentile for accepted applicants?" That's a more useful question.

The average percentile for acceptance is going to be meaningless to someone if they have no familiarity with the competence of the average student taking the test. For example, 90th percentile on the SAT means far less than 90th percentile on the MCAT. The same is true to a lesser extent of the GRE, GMAT, and LSAT.

I do think the emphasis on difficulty should remain on the test, rather than on the competition. The competition is unchanging, statistically speaking over a short time period. How you perform on the test is up to you, and thus your odds of acceptance. I would say that it's a very hard test.

 

[ridethecliche]

Just giving the percentile doesn't tell them much about your chances of acceptance to med school. Most non-premeds who hear "90th percentile" will severely overestimate your chances of getting an acceptance.

If the person is just making small talk, I would just give my percentile.

If the person actually cares, I would give my percentile, then give my scaled score (from 3 to 45) and then place it in context with the median score at Harvard and the median score at Home State University. That takes more time to explain, but unlike the approach above, it actually gives them useful information and some context.

How often do you have this conversation? I legit haven't told my score to anyone that didn't understand the context (because no one has really asked...and I work at a hospital) and when I have been asked, saying the score with the percentile was all it took.

Your shot of getting into med school based on your score doesn't matter. My answer was always, I think it's decent but we'll see.

No one cares if you had a 90% shot but didn't make the cut.

 

[Salt Salt]

The average percentile for acceptance is going to be meaningless to someone if they have no familiarity with the competence of the average student taking the test. For example, 90th percentile on the SAT means far less than 90th percentile on the MCAT. The same is true to a lesser extent of the GRE, GMAT, and LSAT.

I do think the emphasis on difficulty should remain on the test, rather than on the competition. The competition is unchanging, statistically speaking over a short time period. How you perform on the test is up to you, and thus your odds of acceptance. I would say that it's a very hard test.

Regarding the first paragraph: I've already explicitly said several times that just mentioning one's percentile is not the be-all/end-all of explaining how the test went. I've said it several times already, so I may as well say it again: "Is the test hard?" makes sense as a question if we were to interpret it for some reason as "Is the competition tough?"

Regarding the second paragraph: Again, all this seems to amount to is, "The test is neither inherently hard nor easy, but the competition is tough."

 

[wondergirl3]

To expound upon @LizzyM 's percentile assessment, CALM DOWN everyone! 95-98 percentile does not mean you got a 98% on the test, it means you did better than 98% of others taking the test! BIG difference in meanings

 

[Make Or Break]

To expound upon @LizzyM 's percentile assessment, CALM DOWN everyone! 95-98 percentile does not mean you got a 98% on the test, it means you did better than 98% of others taking the test! BIG difference in meanings

Idk how anyone can get this confused having taken the SAT/ACT.

 

[ridethecliche]

This is why stats should be a requirement...

 

[Aloft085]

Regarding the first paragraph: I've already explicitly said several times that just mentioning one's percentile is not the be-all/end-all of explaining how the test went. I've said it several times already, so I may as well say it again: "Is the test hard?" makes sense as a question if we were to interpret it for some reason as "Is the competition tough?"

Regarding the second paragraph: Again, all this seems to amount to is, "The test is neither inherently hard nor easy, but the competition is tough."

I'm just quoting your own words, dude, which seem to be all over the place.

 

[Salt Salt]

This is why stats should be a requirement...

Haha yesss

 

[veryborderlineapplicant]

All of this anxiety about the new mcat is unnecessary. Life isn't fair, and complaining about your situation will get you nowhere. Adcoms are looking for people who are willing to take up the challenges, do their best, and work through things, regardless of what is deemed "fair". Do that. Don't look for reasons to undermine yourself. Just take the new MCAT and do the best you can.

I totally feel your frustration and stress about the new MCAT, but you really would be way better off spending your energy studying for the test instead of calling these schools and getting demotivated. Plenty of people endure difficult circumstances and don't let a standardized test stand in their way of a future, it's one little thing in the big picture, and it shouldn't have that much power over you. It's a lot less stressful if you go with flow. "Ok, I'm here, now how can I make the best of my circumstances?"