Derm Chances?

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dermwish

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I have a main account here but I wanted to make an anonymous account to hide my identity.
Was wondering about my derm chances------

M3
School: mid tier MD
Step 1: 261
Step 2: not taken yet
(this is where it gets harsh)
Class rank: unknown but prob low.. quite low (based on pre clinic probably bottom quartile I wouldn't be surprised) ---->
Pre clinic: 2.7GPA. (B-)~76-78%(I never failed a class.. but ugh - our tests preclinical were atrociously written) - excuses I know
Clinic: Haven't received my grades yet but so far it's going super. Attendings and residents get along very well with me and I've been performing above my peers (I think)
Extras: Compete in a sport at the national level (was semi-professional for 1/2 years before going to med)
Research: zero but got accepted for a research year with a top derm guy (though if I have zero chances for derm why bother going)

I welcome any input as harsh as it may be. I have thick skin and I'm looking for objectivity.
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Last edited:
dermwish said:
I have a main account here but I wanted to make an anonymous account to hide my identity.
Was wondering about my derm chances------

M3
School: mid tier MD
Step 1: 261
Step 2: not taken yet
(this is where it gets harsh)
Class rank: unknown but prob low.. quite low (based on pre clinic probably bottom quartile I wouldn't be surprised) ---->
Pre clinic: 2.7GPA. (B-)~76-78%(I never failed a class.. but ugh - our tests preclinical were atrociously written) - excuses I know
Clinic: Haven't received my grades yet but so far it's going super. Attendings and residents get along very well with me and I've been performing above my peers (I think)
Extras: Compete in a sport at the national level (was semi-professional for 1/2 years before going to med)
Research: zero but got accepted for a research year with a top derm guy (though if I have zero chances for derm why bother going)

I welcome any input as harsh as it may be. I have thick skin and I'm looking for objectivity.
Click to expand...
If you do the research year with the top derm guy and really impress him, do you think he's the sort of person who will write you an outstanding LOR, make calls for you, etc.? If so, then the research year could be worth it.

Make sure you really want derm though. I did two rotations in derm, both were really enjoyable, I did really well, the dermatologists were awesome, etc. But at the end of the day it just wasn't for me.
 
There is a WAMC thread over in the Derm forums.

That might better place to post this. There you will be more likely to get good advice (as bash well has given here).

Here you will inevitably get people foaming at that mouth about how Derm sucks, it's not real medicine, ppl only go into it for lifestyle, etc
 
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I'm not a derm but imo the only thing going for you is your step 1. And I know people with amazing step 1 scores that didn't match or matched after another year. You need solid clinical grades. But more importantly, you need research or you won't match. You also need the letters. Start networking and get down to work on multiple projects if you can. The average derm resident has 10 pubs, papers, abstracts. Half of them are aoa. It's very competitive due to few spots and you will need to work your tail off.
 
My completely uninformed opinion is that you atleast need a paper and a good LOR from that derm research guy. Up there clinical grades too!
 
Interesting that you got a 261 but are bottom quartile of your class...
 
Do PDs care about his preclinical grades after seeing his 261 step 1?
 
Guessing they will care about his class rank
 
TwinsFan said:
Guessing they will care about his class rank
Click to expand...

I would think that they care about STEP 1 but not preclinical grades. They would definitely care about his or her third year grades and research. Isn't AOA also mainly based on third year grades and step 1?

But this is just my opinion
 
Aoa varies from school to school, and preclinical grades factor into class rank unless you're at a true pass/fail school. I don't think they care about the grades themselves provided it's not straight Cs, but being in the bottom quartile is usually a red flag in highly competitive specialties like derm.
 
Everything matters. If you think that PDs don't bother glancing at preclinical grades, you are very wrong.
 
So how do you know you are right? If i read bunch of preclinical grade threads, nearly all of them say that they dont care.
 
Definitely care more about step 1. All else equal, preclinical could come into play.

PDs really want to see solid standardized test performance because they don't want people failing boards. This is from the ACGME Dermatology Program requirements document:

V.C.2.c) graduate performance, including performance of program graduates on the certification examination;
(Core)
V.C.2.c).(1) At least 90 percent of program graduates from the
preceding four years must have taken the American Board of Dermatology certifying examination.
(Outcome)
V.C.2.c).(1).(a) At least 90 percent of the program’s graduates from the preceding four years taking the exam for the first time must pass.
(Outcome)
V.C.2.c).(1).(b) If fewer than 10 residents have graduated from the program in the preceding four years, then at least 90 percent of the last 10 graduates to take the exam for the first time must pass.



So my program has 8 or so residents per year. If 4 or 5 people fail in a course of 4 years...that's trouble.
 
libraryismyhome said:
So how do you know you are right? If i read bunch of preclinical grade threads, nearly all of them say that they dont care.
Click to expand...

I should downplay my post with the modifier that while everything does matter to one degree or another, the other make-or-break factors (Step 1, research, and clinical grades) matter so much more that preclinicals most likely will not make a difference, in the sense that it's extremely unlikely that one will get a bunch of Passes in preclinicals and then pull a 265 out of one's hat.

Dral said:
...
Click to expand...

I think you have the most engaging avatar on SDN.
 
You always have a chance! I would suggest thinking about how you are going to spin your story for interviews - your Step 1 score and a good personal statement may get you enough interviews to match, but you'll have to do something in the interviews to seal the deal. Your research preceptor can also make calls on your behalf if you impress him - and that will go a long way. I'm always surprised about who matches into derm and what random subjective criteria the programs seem to use. Keep the faith!
 
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