zinger89

7+ Year Member
Jul 16, 2012
12
0
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I'm a OMS-III wanting to go into derm. scores are 247/702, rank- 15, and currently doing derm related research that should be published. anyone have any advice on whether it would even be possible to get an MD residency? or will I have much better odds going DO?
 

Mad Jack

Critically Caring
5+ Year Member
Jul 27, 2013
35,548
65,155
4th Dimension
You should just roll the DO dice primarily- your chances at either are pretty low, so maximize things as much as possible.
 
OP
Z

zinger89

7+ Year Member
Jul 16, 2012
12
0
Status
Resident [Any Field]
so if I go DO, does anyone know how many residencies students typically apply to?
 

DocVapor

Big Schwartz
Gold Donor
7+ Year Member
Oct 4, 2012
2,417
4,221
Combing the desert
Status
Resident [Any Field]
so if I go DO, does anyone know how many residencies students typically apply to?
With the merger, this is all changing and I doubt anyone could give you a solid answer. Your best bet is to find out which programs have applied for ACGME accreditation or will be, and then applying to all of them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: abolt18 and 235009
Oct 27, 2013
4,212
1,359
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I'm a OMS-III wanting to go into derm. scores are 247/702, rank- 15, and currently doing derm related research that should be published. anyone have any advice on whether it would even be possible to get an MD residency? or will I have much better odds going DO?
You will have better odds at a DO residency than MD.
 

paintballguy

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Oct 20, 2008
60
6
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I would do DO derm. You have much better odds. I know the merger will change some things around, but I think its a safe assumption that historically MD residencies will still prefer MDs and DOs will still prefer DOs, at least for the first few years until everyone gets more comfortable. Your stats are good, but not a guarantee for DO derm residency. Once match day is combined, I guess you risk nothing when applying to both DO or MD, but that's not for a while right?
 

ToKingdomCome

5+ Year Member
Dec 25, 2012
816
131
Status
I know osteopathic derm res, doesn't do categorical spots which is annoying. But yea, as previous posters have said, you should hedge your bet so selecting a do program if derm is what you want.

Still try to network with sllopathic program directors and see where that goes
 

Moose A Moose

7+ Year Member
Nov 24, 2009
1,379
1,491
Philadelphia, PA
Status
Resident [Any Field]
If you've been networking and bumping shoulders since MS1 year with local DO derm residency folk you should be okay. Otherwise you're looking at a crap shoot. Get those elective rotations in and roll the dice.
 

user3

7+ Year Member
Jul 10, 2010
3,279
1,170
Status
Medical Student
do most of these AOA derm programs plan to apply for ACGME pre-accreditation?
 
OP
Z

zinger89

7+ Year Member
Jul 16, 2012
12
0
Status
Resident [Any Field]
do most of these AOA derm programs plan to apply for ACGME pre-accreditation?
That's a good question. A lot of DO derm residencies seem to be at clinics as opposed to larger hospitals. And I think one of the requirements to get accreditation is that you be affiliated with a larger hospital so I don't know how that will work out.
 

W19

Membership Revoked
Removed
Removed
Account on Hold
Gold Donor
2+ Year Member
Sep 24, 2014
6,096
4,210
Status
Resident [Any Field]
That's a good question. A lot of DO derm residencies seem to be at clinics as opposed to larger hospitals. And I think one of the requirements to get accreditation is that you be affiliated with a larger hospital so I don't know how that will work out.
How can a derm residency be only clinic? Who would want to be trained in such place? This is insane!
 

username456789

10+ Year Member
May 24, 2009
4,656
7,436
Status
Attending Physician
How can a derm residency be only clinic? Who would want to be trained in such place? This is insane!
Because DO Derm residencies are very poorly regulated, and many of them are in essence private practice offices using residents to move the meat through clinic. The better DO programs may have larger hospital affiliation and provide inpatient/dermpath/pediatric derm experience to varying degrees, but many are deficient in these areas and will have to undergo drastic changes to have a shot at being ACGME compliant.
 

W19

Membership Revoked
Removed
Removed
Account on Hold
Gold Donor
2+ Year Member
Sep 24, 2014
6,096
4,210
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Because DO Derm residencies are very poorly regulated, and many of them are in essence private practice offices using residents to move the meat through clinic. The better DO programs may have larger hospital affiliation and provide inpatient/dermpath/pediatric derm experience to varying degrees, but many are deficient in these areas and will have to undergo drastic changes to have a shot at being ACGME compliant.
Why would anyone want to be trained at these programs? This is like NP working 2 years with derm physician and then get a certificate--and call themselves derm specialists.
 

username456789

10+ Year Member
May 24, 2009
4,656
7,436
Status
Attending Physician
Why would anyone want to be trained at these programs? This is like NP working 2 years with derm physician and then get a certificate--and call themselves derm specialists.
Because many people will take anything they can get to become a dermatologist.
 
  • Like
Reactions: YDeeBY and W19

paintballguy

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Oct 20, 2008
60
6
Status
Resident [Any Field]
How can a derm residency be only clinic? Who would want to be trained in such place? This is insane!
Well in their defense, derm is 95% outpatient in the first place. Most DO programs I've seen will do inpatient consults at one larger or a few smaller hospitals nearby, throughout the year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SnowDoggy44

HoboCommander

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Sep 30, 2007
879
129
Status
Resident [Any Field]
With the merger, those AOA spots will probably all go away. Most DO program directors prefer MDs. I think unless you have very good stats, you should consider Emergency Medicine instead for good lifestyle.
 
OP
Z

zinger89

7+ Year Member
Jul 16, 2012
12
0
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Because DO Derm residencies are very poorly regulated, and many of them are in essence private practice offices using residents to move the meat through clinic. The better DO programs may have larger hospital affiliation and provide inpatient/dermpath/pediatric derm experience to varying degrees, but many are deficient in these areas and will have to undergo drastic changes to have a shot at being ACGME compliant.
Well this makes me worry that there won't be any spots to apply to anyway.
 
OP
Z

zinger89

7+ Year Member
Jul 16, 2012
12
0
Status
Resident [Any Field]
With the merger, those AOA spots will probably all go away. Most DO program directors prefer MDs. I think unless you have very good stats, you should consider Emergency Medicine instead for good lifestyle.
You really think DO Derm residencies will start discriminating against DO students?
 

paintballguy

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Oct 20, 2008
60
6
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Zinger89, don't worry most of the current DO programs will be just fine. Also, if anything DO program directors will prefer DOs unfairly over MDs, just as MDs will do against DOs. DOs still prefer to interview people that they have worked with before and I dont see MDs going out of their way to rotate in DO residencies. Most of the MD derm residents I have met do very few derm rotations before they start their residency, which is in stark contrast to the 10 or so rotations DOs will do to be competitive for residency.
 

Sam212

Lover, not a fighter
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Jun 9, 2004
361
101
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
I'm a OMS-III wanting to go into derm. scores are 247/702, rank- 15, and currently doing derm related research that should be published. anyone have any advice on whether it would even be possible to get an MD residency? or will I have much better odds going DO?
You should def apply both, it can't possibly hurt you, the TRI spots will still be open after the MD match, so you could grab one of you didn't match MD. You need to do a TRI to lock down a DO spot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zinger89

Captain DO

2+ Year Member
Sep 13, 2015
112
33
Status
Medical Student
Excellent board scores my friend!!! I think you are set wherever you want to go! Do you have a specific area in mind? Let that guide your decision on DO/MD residency applications!

Rep the DO wherever you end up brother!! Proud to have you on board!! :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: zinger89

Cubsfan10

5+ Year Member
Aug 10, 2013
712
826
Status
Resident [Any Field]
DO program directors may or may not prefer MD candidates. I believe it will vary by program but obviously there will be competition. For example, a 247 by this person is only slightly above average for dermatology. If he/she was going up against more than twice as many applicants from the MD side, it would be tough.
Also, until recently the ACGME was going to mandate that all program directors had to have completed an ACGME residency which would have left a lot of the PDs in DO ortho, derm, etc. out of a job. Who do you think would have replaced them? An MD. Who would they start taking into those former AOA residencies? MDs. It was a shady game that the ACGME was trying to play.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GUH

meliora27

10+ Year Member
Mar 7, 2007
943
841
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
There are so many systemic diseases that have dermatological presentations. So my point is: Can a resident become a competent physician by spending 4 years at a derm doctor's office?
You're smart enough to answer this question for yourself.
 

AlbinoHawk DO

An Osteopath
5+ Year Member
Oct 19, 2013
4,878
5,453
Status
Non-Student
There are so many systemic diseases that have dermatological presentations. So my point is: Can a resident become a competent physician by spending 4 years at a derm doctor's office?
I doubt it, but then again I'm just an OMS so I can't judge what makes someone competent for the field of dermatology.

Some of the programs are so underfunded, they barely cover living expenses. Plenty to read about if you search SDN for DO Derm. Pretty sketchy sounding if true.
Then they shouldn't have them. Thank god real standards will soon be brought in.
 

Giovanotto

5+ Year Member
Jul 20, 2014
1,553
1,347
Status
Medical Student
Quick question: To become a dermatopathologist you first need to become a dermatologist and then a 1 year residency in pathology, or vice versa? Or neither?
 

paintballguy

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Oct 20, 2008
60
6
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I think that is correct for MD programs. You need general pathology experience before you can do dermpath. Not sure about DO fellowships, but there are only two DO programs so you'd probably want to apply MD as well. Pathologists can also go into dermpath as well, unsurprisingly.