Dermatopathology

[bodacious]

I have some questions about Dermpath:

1. What are the job prospects like after fellowship training? Are they better than most other Path subspecialties?

2. What is the Dermpath lifestyle like compared to the other Path subspecs?

3. What about income/salary?

4. What do you think the future of Dermpath will be? Will it remain as hot as it is now?

5. If you intend to practice Dermpath in a private setting, would it be wise to do another fellowship before or after Dermpath? If so, what other fellowship would be most compatible with Dermapth, as far as enhancing your Dermpath diagnostic skills?

Thanks so much!

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[ChipLeader]

Uh oh.

 

[beary]

Uh oh.

I thought the same thing.

 

[pathdawg]

I see an LADOC rant coming.
(can't wait).

 

[quant]

I have some questions about Dermpath:

1. What are the job prospects like after fellowship training? Are they better than most other Path subspecialties?

2. What is the Dermpath lifestyle like compared to the other Path subspecs?

3. What about income/salary?

4. What do you think the future of Dermpath will be? Will it remain as hot as it is now?

5. If you intend to practice Dermpath in a private setting, would it be wise to do another fellowship before or after Dermpath? If so, what other fellowship would be most compatible with Dermapth, as far as enhancing your Dermpath diagnostic skills?

Thanks so much!

You need to direct this question to the most esteemed member of our club,
LaDOC

WYSIWYG - That is his style....and you wouldn't be left with even a SINGLE doubt about dermatopathology as a career choice afterwards...

 

[yaah]

I have some questions about Dermpath:

1. What are the job prospects like after fellowship training? Are they better than most other Path subspecialties?

2. What is the Dermpath lifestyle like compared to the other Path subspecs?

3. What about income/salary?

4. What do you think the future of Dermpath will be? Will it remain as hot as it is now?

5. If you intend to practice Dermpath in a private setting, would it be wise to do another fellowship before or after Dermpath? If so, what other fellowship would be most compatible with Dermapth, as far as enhancing your Dermpath diagnostic skills?

Thanks so much!

Lots of private practice groups are interesting in hiring someone with dermpath expertise, but in general they want someone who will do dermpath and regular surg path in addition. The problem with this is that too many dermpath fellowship spots are filled by dermatologists who know nothing about the rest of pathology. It's a weakness. There needs to be more dermpath training around the country but right now there isn't and too many spots go to dermatologists. Of course, there are specialty labs out there that just do dermpath. Whether your job opportunities are in reality better or not, who knows.

Piece of advice: DO NOT pick a specialty because of lifestyle or increased perceived benefits. Dermpath can be tough and stressful, and if you are in it for the wrong reasons you are screwed. Because everyone will be coming to you with their melanomas and if you can't handle it then you just wasted a fellowship spot. Melanoma is ****ing EVERYWHERE. It is also a legal quagmire and the state of malpractice in this country is reason in and of itself to avoid dermpath.

lifestyle

 

[bodacious]

I really thought that this board was going to be different from the rest. I guess I was wrong. Like all the others, this forum is filled with people who bash posters without first trying to understand where these posters are coming from. I hope that we all could be less judgemental and be more objective and helpful when we answer questions posted on this board - if we have nothing good or helpful or substantial to say, then we might as well just keep our mouths shut.

For whatever this is going to be worth (and to save myself utter embarrassment from those who mocked me), I will go ahead and tell my story...

I am a foreign medical grad who came to the US because of personal reasons (that I am sure I share with a lot of the other immigrants who come to this country, doctors or otherwise). I completed medical school and Dermatology residency in my home country before coming here with my husband and 3 young kids. I LOVE skin - it is my passion! I have always loved clinical Dermatology and also have always been fascinated by Dermatopathology. I would have done a Dermatopathology fellowship in my home country after Derm residency had it been available there - alas, we do not have such a fellowship back home. I knew that being an FMG was going to make it impossible for me to get into Derm here in the US so I decided (after much thought and many agonizing nights and days) to do Path instead, with the hope of doing Dermpath after. I did not want to give up studying skin and among the medical specialties, it was Path that I thought would get me as close to Derm as I possibly could.

Yes, I am going to do Dermpath because I have heard it is lucrative and because I know that Derm and Dermpath in general have very good lifestyles. But my knowledge was based on hearsays, so I came to this forum hoping to get hard facts. I wanted to know specifics but regardless of what I found out, I was not going to change my mind about Dermpath. Like I said, skin is my passion. Having said that, however, I will not lie and say that I did not decide to do Derm because I was not attracted to the money and lifestyle. I worked very hard in medical school so that I and my family could have a good life, so that I could feed my kids and send them to good schools, and actually have the time to enjoy being with them.

Why is it that when people start to ask about lifestyle and money, other people are so quick to say that that is bad? When has it ever become wrong to want to have a good life and to be rich? Medical professionals are so hypocritical! We all say we went into medicine because we wanted to help people - Yes! I am sure we all did! But please do not even dare tell me that you did not think about the money. We do not punish other people in other professions for wanting to be rich and for wanting to have an easy life. Why is it that we are so hard on medical professionals? Are we not entitled to such luxuries as well? Yes, we are supposed to all be martyrs, dedicating our lives to healing people - but we also have personal lives, we have families, and we have dreams we want to achieve.

I love skin and I am just so happy to have fallen in love with a field of medicine that can afford me a good and rich life...

I guess I will have to find other avenues to find the answers to my questions...

Thank you all for your time...

 

[DasN]

WOW that was hard core, what country are you from?
If you really want to do derm go for it, i know some FMG's who got it but i know they published as often as they could. Its not impossible. But on the other hand if you get it do pimp yourself out to some outpatient lab, keep it in private groups or academia.
Good luck

 

[quant]

Hey Bodacious....
No one was trying to mock you....on the other hand the joke is on LaDOCC who has had some rather STRONG opinions regarding dermatopath in the past on more than one occasion....
Thus the torrent of LaDOCC references....

Somebody!!!!......Get the damn search thingy up and going!!
puhleeese!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Hey Bodacious....
No one was trying to mock you....on the other hand the joke is on LaDOCC who has had some rather STRONG opinions regarding dermatopath in the past on more than one occasion....
Thus the torrent of LaDOCC references....

Somebody!!!!......Get the damn search thingy up and going!!
puhleeese!

Actually, I don't think LADoc00 is against lifestyle and money. These are two very realistic concerns one has to deal with when in the medical field. In fact, a while ago when I chatted with LADoc, I think he told me that blood bank and dermpath were good but my memory fails me. Watch LADoc00 come on now and say, "Andy you stupid piece of ****...what the f*ck are you talking about!"

 

[fedor]

Hey Bodacious....
No one was trying to mock you....on the other hand the joke is on LaDOCC who has had some rather STRONG opinions regarding dermatopath in the past on more than one occasion....
Thus the torrent of LaDOCC references....

Somebody!!!!......Get the damn search thingy up and going!!
puhleeese!

Search works if you're a donor or an angel.

 

[beary]

Hey bodacious - we weren't mocking you. Sorry that it came across that way.

Your questions are very reasonable and I hope you come back.

 

[LADoc00]

Thank you all for your time...

Cry me a river. What the hell! you went to med school somewhere in Asia I bet, probably for free and now that you are looking at a lifetime of socialist medicine want to come over here and cash the fook in eh? And what, we are supposed to pat you on the back for your strong moral convinction???

Im not sure what your point even is, what the hell do you want, validation you will be rich and famous??? Like I care lady. Dermpath is hard as hell to get into, if IMGs do make it in, its likely they are sycophants of epic proportions.

Peace out.

 

[ChipLeader]

Wait for it...there it is. Thanks LADOC for saying what I was thinking but was too much of a wuss (or too nice) to break off.

 

[Cabbage Head]

I really thought that this board was going to be different from the rest. I guess I was wrong. Like all the others, this forum is filled with people who bash posters without first trying to understand where these posters are coming from. I hope that we all could be less judgemental and be more objective and helpful when we answer questions posted on this board - if we have nothing good or helpful or substantial to say, then we might as well just keep our mouths shut.

For whatever this is going to be worth (and to save myself utter embarrassment from those who mocked me), I will go ahead and tell my story...

I am a foreign medical grad who came to the US because of personal reasons (that I am sure I share with a lot of the other immigrants who come to this country, doctors or otherwise). I completed medical school and Dermatology residency in my home country before coming here with my husband and 3 young kids. I LOVE skin - it is my passion! I have always loved clinical Dermatology and also have always been fascinated by Dermatopathology. I would have done a Dermatopathology fellowship in my home country after Derm residency had it been available there - alas, we do not have such a fellowship back home. I knew that being an FMG was going to make it impossible for me to get into Derm here in the US so I decided (after much thought and many agonizing nights and days) to do Path instead, with the hope of doing Dermpath after. I did not want to give up studying skin and among the medical specialties, it was Path that I thought would get me as close to Derm as I possibly could.

Yes, I am going to do Dermpath because I have heard it is lucrative and because I know that Derm and Dermpath in general have very good lifestyles. But my knowledge was based on hearsays, so I came to this forum hoping to get hard facts. I wanted to know specifics but regardless of what I found out, I was not going to change my mind about Dermpath. Like I said, skin is my passion. Having said that, however, I will not lie and say that I did not decide to do Derm because I was not attracted to the money and lifestyle. I worked very hard in medical school so that I and my family could have a good life, so that I could feed my kids and send them to good schools, and actually have the time to enjoy being with them.

Why is it that when people start to ask about lifestyle and money, other people are so quick to say that that is bad? When has it ever become wrong to want to have a good life and to be rich? Medical professionals are so hypocritical! We all say we went into medicine because we wanted to help people - Yes! I am sure we all did! But please do not even dare tell me that you did not think about the money. We do not punish other people in other professions for wanting to be rich and for wanting to have an easy life. Why is it that we are so hard on medical professionals? Are we not entitled to such luxuries as well? Yes, we are supposed to all be martyrs, dedicating our lives to healing people - but we also have personal lives, we have families, and we have dreams we want to achieve.

I love skin and I am just so happy to have fallen in love with a field of medicine that can afford me a good and rich life...

I guess I will have to find other avenues to find the answers to my questions...

Thank you all for your time...

I don't think anyone was "mocking" you.


You asked a series of 5 quick questions which can be summarized thusly: jobs, lifestyle, money, jobs, jobs. You didn't provide any backround as to who you were or why you were interested in dermpath. You pretty much just asked the same questions that tend to annoy people on these boards (i.e. jobs, money, lifestyle) without any of the questions that tend to endear yourself to people on these boards (i.e. questions actually about pathology). We don't know you are a dermatologist. We don't know you already know a lot about dermpath. We tend to judge things by our experiences. So don't get all bent out of shape, using condescending terms like "we might as well just keep our mouths shut", when someone suggests that jobs, money, and lifestyle aren't everything, when that's kind of what your questions implied.

 

[LADoc00]

I don't think anyone was "mocking" you.

Speak for yourself please.


Let the mockfest begin.
This poster's attitudes are so pervasive among dermies you have to laugh.

 

[yaah]

This poster's attitudes are so pervasive among dermies you have to laugh.

Every derm person always moans about how they are different and they really love skin. OK, fine, maybe you do, I don't know. But the above poster was right - you introduced yourself and immediately asked about lifestyle and jobs and salary, without saying anything more. If you are a trained dermatologist one would think you would have more expertise in the area and be able to answer your own questions.

You know what? I worked hard too and I love what I do. And I wasn't mocking you either. I criticized you for emphasizing lifestyle because it seemed like that was where you were coming from, and I stand by my statement of saying you shouldn't pick anything if lifestyle is your top reason for doing so.

You asked no questions about what dermpath training was like, or what path training is like, or what kinds of jobs dermpaths do. You went directly to salary and lifestyle and whether you will be competitive. That rubs people the wrong way, because most people don't want to work with someone who is only there for those reasons.

And by the way, I have met FMGs who are in derm residencies. It is not impossible. It's just too bad that so many US medical graduates also love skin and it is also their passion.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

It's just too bad that so many US medical graduates also love skin and it is also their passion.

Oooohhh goddamn... I love me some molluscum contagiosum. Those dermies at dermpath signout drive me up the damn wall. I want to take a pencil and drive it into my ear on those days.

 

[yaah]

Oooohhh goddamn... I love me some molluscum contagiosum. Those dermies at dermpath signout drive me up the damn wall. I want to take a pencil and drive it into my ear on those days.

I know. I have never heard so many acronyms and abbreviations. It's like signing out with an accountant.

 

[quant]

Cry me a river. What the hell! you went to med school somewhere in Asia I bet, probably for free and now that you are looking at a lifetime of socialist medicine want to come over here and cash the fook in eh? And what, we are supposed to pat you on the back for your strong moral convinction???

Im not sure what your point even is, what the hell do you want, validation you will be rich and famous??? Like I care lady. Dermpath is hard as hell to get into, if IMGs do make it in, its likely they are sycophants of epic proportions.

Peace out.

She had it coming.....and in spite of being a graduate of socialist medicine from Asia too, i have to agree with LaDOCC for putting it across the way it is. And no, i am not suckup...Have no fooking reason to....
Wanting to do a speciality which pays money and trying to put an altruistic spin to it sounds miserably hypocritical...

 

[cytoborg]

Oooohhh goddamn... I love me some molluscum contagiosum. Those dermies at dermpath signout drive me up the damn wall. I want to take a pencil and drive it into my ear on those days.

Word. Though a baseball bat might be a more effective weapon of choice.

 

[Cabbage Head]

Speak for yourself please.


Let the mockfest begin.
This poster's attitudes are so pervasive among dermies you have to laugh.

I almost wrote that I didn't think people were mocking her until after her second post, but there is no doubt that they were after that post. I just thought that would be too...mocking.

 

[pathdawg]

You know what? I worked hard too and I love what I do. And I wasn't mocking you either. I criticized you for emphasizing lifestyle because it seemed like that was where you were coming from, and I stand by my statement of saying you shouldn't pick anything if lifestyle is your top reason for doing so.

You asked no questions about what dermpath training was like, or what path

Call me crazy, but I don't think that lifestyle issues are unimportant in choosing a specialty. Honestly, my view is that this ultimately is a job. Being a pathologist or a physician or an Indian Chief or whatever is what I do. It isn't who I am.
Lifestyle was a big reason (granted, not the only reason, but a major reason nonetheless) why I chose pathology. I am not ashamed of that.
Wanting a decent lifestyle with a good salary is not a bad thing.

 

[Pingu]

Wanting a decent lifestyle with a good salary is not a bad thing.

I would say amen to that. Lets face it, we all want to make a reasonable amount of money. But she could have read through this forum to get some more info. Her second post was completely uncalled for.

 

[yaah]

Call me crazy, but I don't think that lifestyle issues are unimportant in choosing a specialty. Honestly, my view is that this ultimately is a job. Being a pathologist or a physician or an Indian Chief or whatever is what I do. It isn't who I am.
Lifestyle was a big reason (granted, not the only reason, but a major reason nonetheless) why I chose pathology. I am not ashamed of that.
Wanting a decent lifestyle with a good salary is not a bad thing.

No one would stipulate, other than the completely insane or those who are such gunners that they fail to realize that life exists outside of their career, that lifestyle is not a consideration in choosing a career. However, part of lifestyle is choosing a career that you enjoy doing and are comfortable in. Even the most unstressful and easy job can lead to a crappy and unsatisfying lifestyle if it is inappropriate for you, whereas a stressful 12 hour a day job can make someone immensely happy and still allow them to enjoy a life outside of work.

It simply bothers me when people choose a career BECAUSE of lifestyle, and then work backwards to justify it along other reasons. That will come back and bite you in the ass inevitably.

 

[GMO2003]

Word. Though a baseball bat might be a more effective weapon of choice.

This reminds me of my elective pathology rotation a couple years back when I was a transitional intern....I was signing out with the heme/path faculty and a fellowship trained derm in dermpath...for some odd reason the heme/path guy was signing out skin cases with the derm...the attitude coming from the dermatologist was unbelievable...I thought they were playing some sort of practical joke on me...yes, it was that bad

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Well the problem is this. Medicine is a toxic profession. Doctors work more hours for less money and now we have this little problem called lawyers. It seems like what we do during the day is dictated by making the maximal effort to cover our asses. Then you have HMO's and cost-effective medicine where the thinking part of medicine is going out the window.

Why do people go into medicine? Most people wanna be doctors because they want 4 things: money/job security, prestige/respect, *****, and oh yeah, a career that is intellectually stimulating. Sure, we have a few people who are of exceptional character and genuinely want to help people but for most people, it's something we say at interviews so that the admissions committees accept us into this "glorified" profession.

Again, we work more for less money. Job security...yeah, that's the one thing medicine still has going for it. Prestige/respect...haha! whatever. *****...take a number cuz the laywers get ***** first and doctors get sloppy seconds. Intellectual stimulation...the protocols and evidence based bullsh*t that govern our work has made medicine dull and boring. Science has given way to illogical empiricism and the art is dead.

The incentives in medicine are decreasing and we start to realize this more and more as we go through medical school. The unfortunate aspect is, we better understand this when it's too late...when we're in debt. So people seem to want to salvage their career by prioritizing lifestyle. I don't **** on these people...I admire them for their honesty. And I totally agree with the person who said that ultimately this is a job. Yes, this truly is a job.

I know that picking a specialty based on lifestyle can rub people the wrong way...especially those who hold onto some element of purism and principle. But look, 1/3 of our life is gone now and we can't go back. So let's be practical and find a way to have a good lifestyle while working and making a sh*tload of cash.

No one would stipulate, other than the completely insane or those who are such gunners that they fail to realize that life exists outside of their career, that lifestyle is not a consideration in choosing a career. However, part of lifestyle is choosing a career that you enjoy doing and are comfortable in. Even the most unstressful and easy job can lead to a crappy and unsatisfying lifestyle if it is inappropriate for you, whereas a stressful 12 hour a day job can make someone immensely happy and still allow them to enjoy a life outside of work.

It simply bothers me when people choose a career BECAUSE of lifestyle, and then work backwards to justify it along other reasons. That will come back and bite you in the ass inevitably.

 

[Pingu]

now we have this little problem called lawyers.

There was an interesting article about tort reform in Texas Monthly this month. The lawyers were defending themselves as champions of the 'common man' then a few paragraphs later, it tells how they have to turn down many cases because the non-economic cap of 250k makes it hard for them to practice. Then they broke down the expenditures:

100k to the lawyer for their 'contingency fee' of 40%
75k to take it to trial
75k to the actual injured party.

So basically by my interpretation, what the lawyers are saying is that 100k a case just isn't enough cash for them, whereas that would be plenty for anyone else.

Here's a though, 'champion' of the common man, if you feel the injured party isn't getting enough, reduce your ridiculous 40% contigency.

 

[MousseKnuckle]

It simply bothers me when people choose a career BECAUSE of lifestyle, and then work backwards to justify it along other reasons. That will come back and bite you in the ass inevitably.

I am working my ass off in medical school and there is more to life than a job. I am considering dermpath (but I will likely go the derm route but maybe path) mainly because I want a 40-50 hour week job, and then, all else being equal, I want bank. Rads is less interesting than path, but it is still interesting and there are really cool things you can do in it. But even if it is less interesting, I can make two-three times as much. Am I willing to trade a little bit of interest for millions of dollars over a career. Maybe, we will see.

 

[Cabbage Head]

I am working my ass off in medical school and there is more to life than a job. I am considering dermpath (but I will likely go the derm route but maybe path) mainly because I want a 40-50 hour week job, and then, all else being equal, I want bank. Rads is less interesting than path, but it is still interesting and there are really cool things you can do in it. But even if it is less interesting, I can make two-three times as much. Am I willing to trade a little bit of interest for millions of dollars over a career. Maybe, we will see.

When radiology compensation goes down after someone decides they aren't paying for it anymore, I'm gonna laugh my balls off. Whenever one subspecialty makes insane amounts of money, they often end up getting screwed when insurance companies figure it out.

Take cataract surgery. Used to compensate really well, but it was very difficult. Then someone figured out how to do phacoemulsification in like 15 minutes, but the compensation for what used to be a long surgery wasn't changed. So surgeons made mad bank. Then someone caught on, and compensation went through the floor.

 

[MousseKnuckle]

When radiology compensation goes down after someone decides they aren't paying for it anymore, I'm gonna laugh my balls off. Whenever one subspecialty makes insane amounts of money, they often end up getting screwed when insurance companies figure it out.

Take cataract surgery. Used to compensate really well, but it was very difficult. Then someone figured out how to do phacoemulsification in like 15 minutes, but the compensation for what used to be a long surgery wasn't changed. So surgeons made mad bank. Then someone caught on, and compensation went through the floor.

Why would you laugh your balls off?

But no matter, radiologists are figuring out how to do new and different stuff all the time. I don't think they will be going anywhere for awhile. I am sure the insurance companies know exactly how much they are paying out to radiologists.

I'm not defending radiology as I may or may not go into it, but it is in the mix, that and urology, ent, derm and path (dermpath).

 

[pathdawg]

Well the problem is this. Medicine is a toxic profession.

Medicine is a toxic profession. Truer words have never been spoken (or written).

 

[deschutes]

There is also the slight problem of being allergic to work.

 

[CameronFrye]

I am working my ass off in medical school and there is more to life than a job. I am considering dermpath (but I will likely go the derm route but maybe path) mainly because I want a 40-50 hour week job, and then, all else being equal, I want bank. Rads is less interesting than path, but it is still interesting and there are really cool things you can do in it. But even if it is less interesting, I can make two-three times as much. Am I willing to trade a little bit of interest for millions of dollars over a career. Maybe, we will see.

As yaah and many other posters have said (there is an extensive discussion concerning these issues on the anesthesia board right now), you need to find the field you would be happy doing if it only paid 100 grand a year. A career spans decades and no one can predict the future, especially in a field as volatile as medicine. One thing is certain, there will always be pressure to cut down on costs.

As for working 40-50 hours per week, you can do that in any field once you finish training. You may trade salary for better hours or less call, but it's still doable.

 

[yaah]

I am working my ass off in medical school and there is more to life than a job. I am considering dermpath (but I will likely go the derm route but maybe path) mainly because I want a 40-50 hour week job, and then, all else being equal, I want bank. Rads is less interesting than path, but it is still interesting and there are really cool things you can do in it. But even if it is less interesting, I can make two-three times as much. Am I willing to trade a little bit of interest for millions of dollars over a career. Maybe, we will see.

Nice...so I assume you will be lying about your interest and motivations during all your interviews then? I'm sure they will be falling all over themselves to get you in.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

yaah...don't be a negative nancy.

 

[MousseKnuckle]

Nice...so I assume you will be lying about your interest and motivations during all your interviews then? I'm sure they will be falling all over themselves to get you in.

Lying? No.

I would never go into a field that wasn't interesting. let's face it. All areas of medicine must have something interesting about them and they all are for the benefit of mankind. But it is crazy that you can make ten or more times in some fields than you can in others. Does a radiologist really work ten times as hard in undergrad, med school, residency and in his job to make ten times what a family practice physician makes? I think you are foolish not to take these variables into consideration. Money isn't everything, but all esle being equal, money rocks. In fact money, to an extent, can make up for other variables.

 

[Harbster]

Well the problem is this.........
The incentives in medicine are decreasing and we start to realize this more and more as we go through medical school. The unfortunate aspect is, we better understand this when it's too late...when we're in debt. So people seem to want to salvage their career by prioritizing lifestyle. I don't **** on these people...I admire them for their honesty. And I totally agree with the person who said that ultimately this is a job. Yes, this truly is a job.

I know that picking a specialty based on lifestyle can rub people the wrong way...especially those who hold onto some element of purism and principle. But look, 1/3 of our life is gone now and we can't go back. So let's be practical and find a way to have a good lifestyle while working and making a sh*tload of cash.

Well put, Andy!

 

[1Path]

Am I willing to trade a little bit of interest for millions of dollars over a career. Maybe, we will see.

Speaking from the perspective of a person who has done something other than school/training for the majority of my adult life in the "real working world", here's what I see is the problem with people who put making a boat load of money near the top of their "why I love this career list".

They'll $hit, piss, spit, ect ALL over you, on you and through you to keep the dough rolling in. Sleeping with the male boss (BOTH females AND males), "accidentally" discarding a year's worth of someone's research, keeping your foot up the a$$ of a subordinate who the boss hates are just a few of the things I've seen done in the name of "rolling in dough". And it seems that one you get accustomed to changing your 7 series in on a newbie every other year, you just can't stop.

So I'm going to have to side with Yaah and others on this one with the knowledge that alturism is a dying word.

 

[Mrbojangles]

At the place I work the dermpath dept has 4FMG fellows and 1AMG fellow (all derm residents NOT path residents). The FMG fellows only plan on doing 1 year of training and go back to their home country after fellowship. So basically, the dept has 5 fellows carrying the load of their cases while for accreditation purposes they only have 1 fellow. So basically they're importing in labor where it benefits them but at the same time they're artifically controlling their numbers. Is it just me or is this really shady. Plus they offer a "Masters" course for FMGs interested in a lectures series at the end of which they receive a certificate. All for a handsome price of course.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Well put, Andy!

I'm coming up to Michigan next weekend. You must drive up to A2 and hang with us. You better warm up your liver!