Hemepath then Dermatopathology Fellowship Possible?

[goldfishchronicles]

I’m at the end of my second year and want to do Dermpath; however, I have low expectations of getting accepted. Would applying for a Hemepath fellowship at an institution that has a Dermpath fellowship be an “in” so to speak? I like Hemepath. I want a good fellowship in terms of marketability if I lose steam after one fellowship. I have young children and am taking them into consideration as well. I would prefer not to do a general surg path fellowship. Advice is greatly appreciated

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[Med Director New England]

Not sure doing hemepath at a place where you’re not at now will help you get derm the following year. The derm spot would likely be filled before you arrived to start hemepath (unless it’s a 2 yr hemepath fellowship).

 

[goldfishchronicles]

Not sure doing hemepath at a place where you’re not at now will help you get derm the following year. The derm spot would likely be filled before you arrived to start hemepath (unless it’s a 2 yr hemepath fellowship).

Is there a strategy that you would suggest? My program doesn't have either fellowship, just one oncologic surgical pathology fellowship.

 

[coroner]

I’m at the end of my second year and want to do Dermpath; however, I have low expectations of getting accepted. Would applying for a Hemepath fellowship at an institution that has a Dermpath fellowship be an “in” so to speak? I like Hemepath. I want a good fellowship in terms of marketability if I lose steam after one fellowship. I have young children and am taking them into consideration as well. I would prefer not to do a general surg path fellowship. Advice is greatly appreciated

You are realistic to have low expectations. Dermpath is the most competitive fellowship to get in pathology because they have so few spots and you are competing against Derm residents who have the most competitive applications in all of residency/fellowship. That being said it’s not impossible: somebody’s gotta fill those slots, right...why not you?

As far as finding an “in” via the hemepath route at a program that has both fellowship programs, I think the margin of return on that is next to nil. You would already have to be in the hemepath program (or at least accepted) to get any traction into parlaying that towards a potential dermpath fellowship. If you’re already in the program as a hemepath fellow, then obviously for the sake of time, you’d be doing dermpath the following academic year. At that point, the dermpath fellowship would have likely already filled their incoming dermpath slots while you are a hemepath fellow. If you theoretically were to use it as an “in”, in my opinion, for the sake of time, it would be better to get accepted into hemepath; and, then immediately contact the program and say you want to stay in the area and complement your training with another fellowship and have an interest in atypical lymphoid proliferations of the cutis. Again, the margin of return on this is minimal to nil, imo.

If I were you, since you only want to do one fellowship and avoid two if possible, I would beef up my CV as best as I could to apply for dermpath only when you’re a third year path resident. If you don’t get in, apply for hemepath as a late third year or early fourth year. At that point if you didn’t get in dermpath the first time, chances are slim you’ll get in later down the road. There’s always hemepath spots open, so you should have no problem getting in. Then as soon as you are accepted in hemepath (not already started), you can try the long-shot of contacting the program and seeing if you’re hemepath fellowship director can reach out to the dermpath director and express your interest in complementing your training. That being said, I think it’s a long-shot, but it still may be worth a shot…

 

[goldfishchronicles]

You are realistic to have low expectations. Dermpath is the most competitive fellowship to get in pathology because they have so few spots and you are competing against Derm residents who have the most competitive applications in all of residency/fellowship. That being said it’s not impossible: somebody’s gotta fill those slots, right...why not you?

As far as finding an “in” via the hemepath route at a program that has both fellowship programs, I think the margin of return on that is next to nil. You would already have to be in the hemepath program (or at least accepted) to get any traction into parlaying that towards a potential dermpath fellowship. If you’re already in the program as a hemepath fellow, then obviously for the sake of time, you’d be doing dermpath the following academic year. At that point, the dermpath fellowship would have likely already filled their incoming dermpath slots while you are a hemepath fellow. If you theoretically were to use it as an “in”, in my opinion, for the sake of time, it would be better to get accepted into hemepath; and, then immediately contact the program and say you want to stay in the area and complement your training with another fellowship and have an interest in atypical lymphoid proliferations of the cutis. Again, the margin of return on this is minimal to nil, imo.

If I were you, since you only want to do one fellowship and avoid two if possible, I would beef up my CV as best as I could to apply for dermpath only when you’re a third year path resident. If you don’t get in, apply for hemepath as a late third year or early fourth year. At that point if you didn’t get in dermpath the first time, chances are slim you’ll get in later down the road. There’s always hemepath spots open, so you should have no problem getting in. Then as soon as you are accepted in hemepath (not already started), you can try the long-shot of contacting the program and seeing if you’re hemepath fellowship director can reach out to the dermpath director and express your interest in complementing your training. That being said, I think it’s a long-shot, but it still may be worth a shot…

My program made it seem like I need to get my applications in this July 1st, but there isn’t necessarily a rush? I could possibly just have a gap year between residency and fellowship if I am lucky enough to get into Dermpath? Otherwise, if I don’t get in, I could get into Hemepath and have no gap year? Appreciate the advice.

 

[mike-sheree]

Gap year =1 less year of earnings at your highest (most commonly) income level.

 

[pathslides]

Don’t waste your time doing two fellowships. Why give up 300k+ just to be another hospital pion. Get real sign out experience by going into practice and making money as well. You got kids. Community practice is where path lifestyle is at (i.e >450k+ with 40-50hr wk) and community Dermpath is not hard.

A subscription to Expert Path and a real AP/CP general job will be far superior to a second fellowship.

 

[mike-sheree]

Pathslides, as usual, hit it on the head.

 

[MetroPath]

I’m at the end of my second year and want to do Dermpath; however, I have low expectations of getting accepted. Would applying for a Hemepath fellowship at an institution that has a Dermpath fellowship be an “in” so to speak? I like Hemepath. I want a good fellowship in terms of marketability if I lose steam after one fellowship. I have young children and am taking them into consideration as well. I would prefer not to do a general surg path fellowship. Advice is greatly appreciated

Yeah in your scenario, get a job and get paid. If you can’t get a dermpath spot then forget it and move on…start earning a real living and support your fam.

If you can get a dermpath spot, I’d however recommend a second year of fellowship if it’s something you truly want/love because this is your last chance to get training. If you are talking about money, dermpath is worthwhile as I’ve seen job offers of 700-800k probably for good lifestyle. Make sure you go to a reputable institution though.

 

[Guest8]

Don’t waste your time doing two fellowships. Why give up 300k+ just to be another hospital pion. Get real sign out experience by going into practice and making money as well. You got kids. Community practice is where path lifestyle is at (i.e >450k+ with 40-50hr wk) and community Dermpath is not hard.

A subscription to Expert Path and a real AP/CP general job will be far superior to a second fellowship.

Agree. I am a dermpath but in a community practice where I do both dermpath and general surgical path. Every partner in the group makes the same and we share work fairly equally, me included. I make more in my general community practice than almost every dermpath I know that works in dermpath only labs, most of whom have no chance at partnership of any kind. And way more than academia.

 

[eulAEgy]

If you already have low expectations I would just forget about it. Our outgoing and incoming fellows were both derm trained even though dermpath is part of the path department here. With my decent name program I don't know a single one of the PGY2 through 4 that matched it and all of them were very competitive with the amount of research they had. All of them matched in some other AP fellowship that is quite decent.

The real advantage of dermpath is the fewer number of blocks per case letting you get through more volume. Those seven figure paydays you read about from 10+ years ago are long gone unless you're some celebrity in the UC system.

When the MS3/4 rotate through here and say they're super gungho about dermpath I tell them to do a derm residency.