Developing relationships for LORs

[lil'trooper]

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Hi, I'm new here.

I have a particular problem: as a post-bac, I work 1/2 time, volunteer, take about 10 units per semester, live 15 miles away from campus, and try to maintain a romantic relationship and friendships.

My biochem class has maybe 70 students. My prof's office hours are on days when I'm at work. I tend to be a self-starter, solo study-er. I was never a big fan on attending office hours, even in undergrad. Profs always seem hurried and busy. In premed classes, there's often a line out the door of people trying to make nice and chit-chat.

I find the idea of fostering relationships with profs by sauntering into office hours and saying "Oh, beta particle emissions are just SO fascinating to me! Can you tell me more about X, Y, and Z?" to be yucky.

Obviously, I need to set up times to meet, go in there with some salient questions, and work my personality, dedication, brilliance etc into the conversation.

Do other people find this process difficult?

Thanks!

 

[baylormed]

Hi, I'm new here.

I have a particular problem: as a post-bac, I work 1/2 time, volunteer, take about 10 units per semester, live 15 miles away from campus, and try to maintain a romantic relationship and friendships.

My biochem class has maybe 70 students. My prof's office hours are on days when I'm at work. I tend to be a self-starter, solo study-er. I was never a big fan on attending office hours, even in undergrad. Profs always seem hurried and busy. In premed classes, there's often a line out the door of people trying to make nice and chit-chat.

I find the idea of fostering relationships with profs by sauntering into office hours and saying "Oh, beta particle emissions are just SO fascinating to me! Can you tell me more about X, Y, and Z?" to be yucky.

Obviously, I need to set up times to meet, go in there with some salient questions, and work my personality, dedication, brilliance etc into the conversation.

Do other people find this process difficult?

Thanks!

I feel the same here.

I always found the idea of HAVING TO make friends with professors just for the sake of a reccommendation kind of disturbing. I, like you, have little time to go into their offices (I rarely do, as a matter of fact).

I think in our case, the best reccommendation can come from our grades. Also, if you have shadowed or interned in a medical position, those make even better letters (when it comes the personal side).

Good luck.

 

[jillibean]

oh...
I thought this thread was about developing romantic relationships in exchange for LORs.... that would be more interesting.

Just go talk to your profs-- they want to get to know their students and writing LORs is part of their job.

 

[theothernguyen]

Hi, I'm new here.

I find the idea of fostering relationships with profs by sauntering into office hours and saying "Oh, beta particle emissions are just SO fascinating to me! Can you tell me more about X, Y, and Z?" to be yucky.

Obviously, I need to set up times to meet, go in there with some salient questions, and work my personality, dedication, brilliance etc into the conversation.

Do other people find this process difficult?

For me, I end up diverging from the normal topics you learn in class and ask about other things more interesting. Do your research on your professor and learn about what he/she is interested in or doing research in. Read a few papers he/she has published, and if you have genuine to know more about it, go into their office with questions of curiosity about them. That is what I did.

Other than that, I would talk about questions that I had interest in, and I am sure your professors would engage in a conversation like that since it is just a more down-to-earth conversation rather than seriously discussing class material. Essentially, just talk about you.

I hate asking questions as if I had to ask them for the sake of asking. So this solution allows you to talk about something else that is not superficial. It actually shows more about you since you took the time to do all this before hand, and can have a meaningful discussion beyond the scope of the class. It is difficult and takes a lot of time, but it is worth it.

 

[killinsound]

I feel you should only go to office hours when you are truly interested in the subject matter, or find the professor incredibly interesting.

The questions will come freely if you don't go there with your objective and motivation to be the LOR.

I've had conversations about everyday life with the professors whom I've connected to the most. I believe that having normal conversations will actually make your LOR's stronger, in the sense that they will know you as you, and not as a student.

 

[theothernguyen]

I feel you should only go to office hours when you are truly interested in the subject matter, or find the professor incredibly interesting.

The questions will come freely if you don't go there with your objective and motivation to be the LOR.

I've had conversations about everyday life with the professors whom I've connected to the most. I believe that having normal conversations will actually make your LOR's stronger, in the sense that they will know you as you, and not as a student.

Agreed. You need that mindset to do what I listed.

 

[crazy_cavalier]

Just be real. Don't try to form a "relationship" if all you want is a fakking letter of rec. Instead, just straight-up ask the prof (in person) if they are willing to meet with you to discuss the possibility of a letter of rec. Set some time aside so that the prof can sort-of interview you, maybe during their lunch break or something, and during that time you can tell him/her more about you and that gives them some material to discuss in the letter. Also put together a folder where you include your PS, CV, and any exceptional work you've done in the class.

The point is, don't go brown-nosing if all you want is a LOR in the end.

 

[LizzyM]

For me, I end up diverging from the normal topics you learn in class and ask about other things more interesting. Do your research on your professor and learn about what he/she is interested in or doing research in. Read a few papers he/she has published, and if you have genuine to know more about it, go into their office with questions of curiosity about them. That is what I did.

Other than that, I would talk about questions that I had interest in, and I am sure your professors would engage in a conversation like that since it is just a more down-to-earth conversation rather than seriously discussing class material. Essentially, just talk about you.

I hate asking questions as if I had to ask them for the sake of asking. So this solution allows you to talk about something else that is not superficial. It actually shows more about you since you took the time to do all this before hand, and can have a meaningful discussion beyond the scope of the class. It is difficult and takes a lot of time, but it is worth it.

The very best letters I see come from faculty members who have this type of relationship with a student... student shows an interest in topics outside of the material covered in class, cordial conversation on a wide variety of topics (shows you are not a pre-med with no outside interests), recommendation is most sincere.

We also see letters from professors in huge classes who will say something along the lines of, "Steve was in the top 5 of the 70 students in the class at the midterm and had the 3rd highest grade on the final exam. I never saw him at office hours but he strikes me as the type of student who does not 'need' office hours. Steve asked good questions in class and showed an ability to go beyond the material presented in class to make inferences about material that is more often covered in a graduate class." Obviously, the professor didn't have much beyond his grade book to write the letter and adcoms know that this is often the reality.

In either case, the LOR is OK. The LOR is best for the adcom when it rules out an applicant. Whatever you do, you don't want one of those (generally someone who looks like they are grubbing for grades, making a pest of themself asking for re-grades, working no harder than necessary, etc). Rest assured, these letters are very, very rare.

 

[lil'trooper]

Thanks, all. This makes sense to me.

Unfortunately, the "Get me into med school and I'll get you into me" approach has been considered and thrown out. I have bags under my eyes and yellow teeth from too many undergrad Marlboros! Not to mention the rockin' bod of a 29-year-old who consumes ice cream daily. 🙂

 

[63768]

i'd go to the prof when you can and tell him that at the end of the course, you'd like a letter of recommendation from him for whatever reasons and let him know when you'd need it by. give him a huge headsup and ask him what his preference would be. would he want you to work with him in his lab? would he want to get to know you? set it up early on, give him plenty of time.

 

[CaramelDlite]

I think in our case, the best reccommendation can come from our grades.

I would have to disagree here, a teacher can say you did well in her class but if you really did, the adcoms already know this, so what does this add? Not much I say. I have always been one to avoid office hours and even though it disturbed me that people really helped their grades by seeing professors, I still never tried to go until my last year. I basically decided that the extra 30 minutes I spent studying could be spent in someone's office hours. No matter how well I did in a class, I didnt know EVERYTHING and could always use help directly from the teacher. And I know for my anatomy class my teacher enjoyed my visits that much more because I came to her for help even though I was doing very well in her class. She wrote a LOR for me and I still keep in touch with her and I never would have expected to, but in the end stepping out of my comfort zone really helped.

 

[baylormed]

I would have to disagree here, a teacher can say you did well in her class but if you really did, the adcoms already know this, so what does this add? Not much I say. I have always been one to avoid office hours and even though it disturbed me that people really helped their grades by seeing professors, I still never tried to go until my last year. I basically decided that the extra 30 minutes I spent studying could be spent in someone's office hours. No matter how well I did in a class, I didnt know EVERYTHING and could always use help directly from the teacher. And I know for my anatomy class my teacher enjoyed my visits that much more because I came to her for help even though I was doing very well in her class. She wrote a LOR for me and I still keep in touch with her and I never would have expected to, but in the end stepping out of my comfort zone really helped.

Yes, I'm very sorry not all of us have time to go make friends with our professors.

And I hated those annoying people that took up 1 hour of the two office hours a week the professor gave us to talk about subjects unrelated to the class. One time I literally sat in the hall for an hour while the professor and an obnoxious pre-med chatted, while I actually had an important and relevant question about the homework.

That's why I said get a letter from someone with whom you interned/volunteered with. That'll give the adcom a personal overview.

There's no set formula for this. One just does the best one can.

 

[LizzyM]

Sometimes, a LOR can shed light on a grade that is not as good as one would hope. Some professors will point out in the letter that you did very poorly on the mid-term (and perhaps make a mention of a illness or family emergency that caused a problem) but that the student came for help, attended office hours or otherwise worked hard to turn things around, did exceptionally well on the final but garnered only a B+ for the course. This is also a letter that goes beyond the grade and works to assure an adcom that this student knows how to turn around a disappointing first half (like Notre Dame) and come back strong.