Did you lie?

[tryingagain]

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Did you lie about ANYTHING at your interview? I often hear of people saying they want primary care when they really don't?

Be honest and post your lies!!!

 

[Scooby Doo]

I said I was a black female...

Boy were they surprised to see a handsome little white boy show up to the interviews <img src="graemlins/wowie.gif" border="0" alt="[Wowie]" /> <img src="graemlins/wowie.gif" border="0" alt="[Wowie]" /> <img src="graemlins/wowie.gif" border="0" alt="[Wowie]" /> <img src="graemlins/wowie.gif" border="0" alt="[Wowie]" /> <img src="graemlins/wowie.gif" border="0" alt="[Wowie]" />

 

[reesie0726]

Scooby, I dont know if other people will get offended but when I read the post I was laughing my a** off. (And I am a black female)

 

[THE instiGATOR]

Nope, I didn't lie. I think it's disgusting that people do this. Anyway, don't want to get into an argument about that.

For those who don't know, USA is a big "primary care" school. Last year about 70% entered a p.c. field. During my interview, I was straight-up with my interviewer and told him I wanted to specialize. He thanked me for my honesty and told me he's usually pretty good about spotting liars. Lo and behold, an acceptance came a week and a half later. Don't lie, people. Especially about the primary care issue. Schools can't expect everyone to want to be a GP.

 

[Mutterkuchen]

Can adcom's verify certain types of information such as ECs? I did volunteer work in a hospital about 7-8 years ago. I'm sure that they wouldn't remember me, but I want to include it in my application. Will they want to verify this type if info?

 

[Lecular]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh
Never ever lie.
I was part of Yale's Summer Medical Program and Yale admissions people talked to us about the process and this issue was addressed.

Interviewers can spot a lie in a flash or at least the people on the admissions board at Yale can.

It's in the body language, people start doing things unconsciously when they lie and their tone of voice changes!!

I don't think anyone would lie during an interview. That's just a dumb move.

And in answering the EC verification, if they want verification they will perhaps ask you about your activity during the interview. Yale admissions told us that the reason they know the applicant's AMCAS so well is because it also helps in verifying if an EC is bogus or not since they will possibly ask you about your ECs.

<img src="graemlins/pity.gif" border="0" alt="[Pity]" />

 

[jargon124]

Lecular hit this right on the spot. Lying on your application or your interview or whatever else is just dumb. It's not worth the risk. Do you realize that if ONE school finds out you lied the chances are good that they will make sure all other schools you applied to will know that too? Lying is just not a good idea. Don't do it. Period

 

[scottie]

Two Words: George O'Leary

 

[leorl]

LOL SCOOBS!

 

[Coalboy]

I had to look up that reference (not a huge college football fan), but definitely a good example.

 

[A. Caveman]

i've known a few people, i'm thinking of one guy in particular right now, that told his interviewer that he wanted to enter primary care when asked the question. he actually wants to specialize, but said this instead. he got in. he also said that almost everything he said to get in was a lie.

i also know that although an outright lie is bad, a no-no, exagerrating, or presenting yourself in the best light possible is not bad, but very crucial. if you try to just be the simple man who speaks truth, you're gonna burn yourself. you have to think about everthing you're saying and paint yourself in the best possible color. picture yourself or your application as a rainbow. there are many different colors. there are dark areas, weaknesses, vulnerabilities. you can't show these at all, you should make it look like you're red, blue, white, yellow, etc all over the place. that takes a certain degree of manipulation. manipulating is not lying, but the line is thin...and if during your manipulating you happen to tip-toe on the other side of that line, then i don't think it will hurt you, i think it will really help you actually. if your lines are so phony that you look like you're lying, you've gone too far...but keep in mind that you have to be careful with what you say. you have to be smart. if asked whether i want to enter primary care, i'll say positive things about it, and then say that i'm also interested in specializing. but that i'm not too sure at this point. while technically i'm almost positive that i want to specialize..if i say that i'm burning myself (unless i'm swampman and say "i have to be totally honest with you, ..."). but if i paint myself the right way, i'm helping myself a lot. besides, i do believe in those positive aspects of primary care, so who's to say i'm actually NOT interested...nobody that's who. we win.

 

[Jalby]

I once shortened a story because it would have took way to long, but I kept all of the basics exactly the same.

 

[Warren P. Cheswick]

Here's my situation...

I said somewehere on my application I'd like to live near a city that has all your basic needs. IN the interview I said I would like to practice in a rural community. I just hope I conveyed the message the right way and that they understand that I'd love to jsut set up a practice in a podunk city and go from there, but have a large city nearby for all of life's necessities.

 

[Jalby]

Figured I should add a few details to my last post. I caught a person cheating on a lab report (I'm a TA), and I asked the student if she cheated. She said no. The professor asked her if she was cheating and she said no. The professor then gave the report back to her saying we had nothing to go on. I was pissed. I had photocopied the report without him knowing about it, so I took it to the dean on my own and got her kicked out of school. I shortened this story by leaving out the part where I asked the student if seh had cheated.

 

[kutastha]

Yikes. You really laid down the hammer.

Andrew

 

[A. Caveman]

man, that's barely shortening it..that's almost the whole story dude. geez you had that poor cheater kicked out. she's screwed now..maybe you should have just had a talk with her. wow man, she might never get into med school because she made one stupid stupid mistake. i've never cheated, or really ever considered cheating, but i've seen it...i got pissed, but i'm not gonna send someone to the electric chair for a stupid mistake..i'd just talk to them..if it happened again i'd pull the switch though. but i respect that jalbrekt. i may have done the same..i didn't see her face, maybe she was defiant and looked like what they call a "repeat offender" in the jail business.

anyway, when i said to watch what you say, i was talking about crazier stuff...ie displaying only the pretty colors when that primary care question is asked. or when "what are your weaknesses" is asked.

WPC, my advice applies to your situation. you could have done better by fully explaining yourself. that "lazy response" (not my terminology) doensn't convey your true feelings, but the interviewer might not know that. in my opinion, making sure to include the explanation about a big city nearby counts as manipulation (even though it's the truth, if my frame of mind werent' to double check what i'm saying, i'd have said only what you said...which isn't the best answer). am i confusing you...i hope not, it's hard to explain it, but i think you get the picture.

 

[imtiaz]

Don't you HATE it when they do that? I had a student who changed an answer after I handed back exams and when I caught him he began ARGUING with me! He was flustered, but he was so stupid he didn't know how to handle it. I was so pissed I wish I had copied his exam. But I bluffed and said that we made double sided photocopies, and at that point he took his exam and stammered out of the room. Heh.

Originally posted by Jalbrekt:
•Figured I should add a few details to my last post. I caught a person cheating on a lab report (I'm a TA), and I asked the student if she cheated. She said no. The professor asked her if she was cheating and she said no. The professor then gave the report back to her saying we had nothing to go on. I was pissed. I had photocopied the report without him knowing about it, so I took it to the dean on my own and got her kicked out of school. I shortened this story by leaving out the part where I asked the student if seh had cheated.•••

 

[Jalby]

This report was worth 20% of the class grade. And she denied she cheated twice. I could only prove some of the cheating, but I think she spent about an hour changing a past report while other students spent 20 hours working on it. I have no doubt that she deserved to be kicked out. She even said she didn't cheat when talking to the dean. That's what got her kicked out, more than what I did.

 

[A. Caveman]

i totally agree with your actions. i'd have done the same thing in that case.

but wait, so if she'd confessed they would not have kicked her out? what if she'd confessed to you right off the bat..would the end-result have been different?

 

[THE instiGATOR]

Wise marketing and not telling the truth are TOTALLY different things.

I actually wish I had majored in marketing instead of chemistry. The payoffs are tremendous, and you can use the skills in many situations. Fortunately, I work as a writer in a marketing office. My employer is really awesome and helped me "sculpt" my application this year free of charge. I'm pretty good at marketing, but her advice kicked it up a notch.

To those who have not applied yet: TAKE A MARKETING CLASS OR TWO!!!

 

[SMW]

Can't believe this question is even being asked! OK, so I'm naive.

But welcome to SDN anyway, tryingagain! 🙂

 

[choker]

i think it all depends on your institution. at my school, there is absolutely no honor code and cheaters are everywhere. one of my best friends got caught cheating on a final, and got a dean's hearing. they were like "we would like to know why you felt like you 'had' to cheat," and "yeah, we've been seeing premeds feel very pressured to do well, etc." the tone was extremely sympathetic and they were all super nice to my friend. he said it was like seeing a therapist and super nice. the deans then apologized that the teacher elected to fail the student. the deans gave my friend an official "warning" so that if it happened again, he might be put on "probation." if caught a third time, it may lead to more severe disciplinary action. you could kill a person at my school and get away with it. i think the reason that the school is so leniant is that in my past 7 semesters, something like around 15-20 students have killed themselves (some actually acquantances of mine), out of a total college population of 3700. our school is under major major fire for putting too much pressure on the kids and not being responsive to their problems.

interesting story: 2 years ago, a premed at our school was interviewing at med school. years before, he told a teacher that he needed an extension on a paper because his brother had just died (this was a lie). he then got a letter of rec from that same teacher (i dont know what he was thinking). during the interview, the interviewer asked him how his brother situation was and he said "he's fine, he's in college now." the interviewer notified our school, an investigation was launched and the kid was caught. the school suspended him for a year and withdrew their letter of support, meaning that he could no longer apply to med school (i think ever).

that guy jumped in front of a train a week later.

when you think of cheating, although i dont condone it or partake of it, it is really such a minor transgression in the total scheme of things. i know you guys are all gonna attack me on this, but i mean fail the kid. fine. scare him a little. fine. give him at least 1 warning so that if he so much as farts in class, he's screwed. but at least give the kid a chance to redeem himself. you may just scare him straight. rehabilitating a kid like that is much much more productive than kicking him out.

i am a TA, and i usually stick to these principles when dealing with cheaters, and so does the entire faculty and deans of my school.

no one likes disciplinary actions. they cost the school tons of money in litigation fees, they look bad for the school, and for the student. the school piles tons of money and resources into each student; expelling would be a huge waste in so many ways.

but again, we have no honor code. if a student signs that, then everything is a little different. since we have none, they watch us like hawks for each exam. i understand that schools with an honor code tend to have less-stringent exam proctoring. if this is the case, then a more severe punishment may be in order. but expulsion on a first offense is pretty harsh.

 

[qwert]

Sorry Jalbrekt, you're just a jerk. I'd never shake your hand.

 

[THE instiGATOR]

Originally posted by qwert:
•Sorry Jalbrekt, you're just a jerk. I'd never shake your hand.•••

Don't cheat and you won't have to worry about anything like this happening to you.

Though I wouldn't have pressed for the girl to be booted out, I would have no remorse if she did. She got what was coming to her.

 

[jmejia1]

Originally posted by Jalbrekt:
•Figured I should add a few details to my last post. I caught a person cheating on a lab report (I'm a TA), and I asked the student if she cheated. She said no. The professor asked her if she was cheating and she said no. The professor then gave the report back to her saying we had nothing to go on. I was pissed. I had photocopied the report without him knowing about it, so I took it to the dean on my own and got her kicked out of school. I shortened this story by leaving out the part where I asked the student if seh had cheated.•••

Hey Jelbrekt, I definetly don't condone cheating, but I think you took the incident too far. As a TA the highest spot I would've taken it was the Professor as you initially did, but from there on, considering it was brought to the student's attention by both you and the professor that should've been enough to teach her a lesson. If I were a faculty member interviewing a prospect, and he told me about putting the hammer down like you did, it would've been a turn-off. I would've perfered to hear that you notified the professor and then spoke to the student about how serious the offense was. Just my opinion. By the way,

Back to the subject at hand, I've specifically noticed interviewers probing into my ECs and hobbies as if trying to see if they were legite(sp?)

For example, at a recent interview somehow the conversation went into baseball, and I mentioned I was a fan and as well had played varsity baseball in highschool. Immediately he asked me what I thought of the "trade". Well, considering I'm either in class, work, interviewing or worrying about interviewing I haven't kept up with baseball, so I asked him what trade he was refering to. I got myself out of the corner by bringing up some additional baseball stuff showing him that indeed I was well-versed in it.

The interviewers are pros so they can smell bacon a mile ago. They will catch people lying. He even asked me detailed questions as far as what bait I use to catch Mackeral (I mentioned that I liked fishing).

 

[THE instiGATOR]

Originally posted by jmejia1:
•

He even asked me detailed questions as far as what bait I use to catch Mackeral (I mentioned that I liked fishing).•••

Well, everybody knows you use cigar minnows to catch mackeral! DUH!!! 😉 😛 😀

 

[jmejia1]

Originally posted by SwampMan:
•

Well, everybody knows you use cigar minnows to catch mackeral! DUH!!! 😉 😛 😀 •••

Yea but you can also use squid with great results, especially at night!

 

[Jalby]

Hey, I don't regret what I did for a second. There was rampant cheating in that class and we (The TA's) catch about 3 people turning in old lab reports each quarter. The professor said at the beggining of the quarter that anybody caught cheating would go to the dean. But this professor never turned in a single person. He was actually a post-doc who wanted to become a professor at my school, but didn't want to cause any problems. This was the first time a student totally denied cheating and that's what got her kicked out, not the fact I went to the dean.
Even before I went to the dean, I talked to two professors that I'm close to and the lab coordinator and they agreed that it should be taken to the dean.
I'm actually shocked she got kicked out. Normally, the dean doesn't do anything. But her telling him she didn't cheat when both me and the dean having the report in front of him. She didn't know I had made the photocopy of the report that the dean had. SO I have no sympathy.

And to the person who said you would never want to shake my hand, I don't know what society you want to live in but I want to be in a place where people are held responsible for there actions. All this person had to do was admit her wrong and she would have gotten a slap on the wrist. Grow some morals.

 

[qwert]

I'll explain:

1) Jalberkt was acting behind the professor's back, it is absolutely inappropriate. Don't you think professor had his/her own reasons to let cheater go? It is not TA's business.

2)Morover, Jalberkt's story sounds like he did it because he "got pissed off" by professor who refused to punish that girl, not because he is a Holy Cheating Warrior as it may sound.

 

[SMW]

I think you did the right thing, Jalbrekt.

 

[UCLA2000]

1. No I never lied on my application or in any interviews. I have friends on Adcoms and I have heard stories of people getting caught lying at one school. They call up all the other schools and inform them, and the person NEVER gets into ANY med school. It's not worth the risk

2. I'm glad you turned in that cheater. At ucla everything is on a curve, and if someone else cheats it hurts your grade. Why the hell should my chances of getting an A in the class be jeopardized because some dumb a$$ decides to cheat. Hell I would have turned the person in as a student. Do you really want a doctor that cheated their way into med school? I don't have any sympathy or tolerance for behavior like that. They should have been in the library studying like the rest of us. If they can't put in the work, they don't deserve the benefits.

 

[kutastha]

I TAed for several years in the Chem department at UCSD - both labs and lectures. On a couple occasions I discovered some cheating along the lines of what Jalbrekt discovered - several students were turning in the same lab report. I didn't photocopy them nor turn them in, but I spoke one on one with those doing the cheating. I basically told them that I was aware of their cheating habits and that if these habits continue, it can threaten their time at UCSD (I didn't insinuate I would do it to them, but rather that this behavior is not acceptable and someday it could turn around on them). I left this as a warning and let them deal with it how they wished. I figure college is a learning experience and that people aren't inherently trying to corrupt themselves, just trying to get ahead. I let them know that there were other ways to do this, and no one got kicked out. As a TA I felt they needed some guidance, not discipline.

Andrew

 

[Jalby]

I gave the professor three chances to turn her in after she denied cheating to me and him. Right after the incident. I then asked him again to turn her in two days later. I then wrote him a letter 4 days after that detailing the case against her, why he should do it, and I told him flat out that if he doesn't do it, I will. He wrote a E-mail to the dean saying that there is a student who may or may not have cheated (he didn't think so) and would he please have a talk with me about how dangerous for the school it is to accuse a student of cheating when we had no proof. (Which I never accused the student) What the professor didn't know was that I had photocopied the report. He thaught the student had all of the evidence. The other TA and myself went to the dean to have this "talk" and we showed him the evidence we had, he agreed that it was blatant cheating. He asked me to write up a report, which I did and the other TA signed off that this was exactly what happened, and that report started the action against the student.

Anybody who wants the long detailed story (80% is probably here) just PM me. Wow this post got off track.

 

[lamyers1]

Absolutely called for. And I do not believe you have to justify what you did. I very recently had to do something just as bad or worse with much bigger ramifications. Yes I feel bad, but I would do it again and I don't give a crap who or would not shake my hand (no offense).

 

[tryingagain]

As I have never interviewed I obviously have never lied. I was just wondering if anyone had. I always hear stroies (sometimes from actual doctors) about telling the admissions people exactly what they want to hear. I was just curious if anyone had actually done it.

Oh by the way, wish me luck on the MCAT in April. I am actually going to study for it this time. <img src="graemlins/laughy.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughy]" />

 

[SMW]

Originally posted by tryingagain:
•
Oh by the way, wish me luck on the MCAT in April. I am actually going to study for it this time. <img src="graemlins/laughy.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughy]" /> •••

If you actually study, you won't need luck! 😉 😛

 

[marleybfour]

Let me tell you about lying.....Twenty years ago I had a GPA 0f 1.7 and was kicked out of college. I went into a panic as my parents had no idea how badly I was doing. I went to the Dean with a fake medical report that said I had Hogkin's disease. ( I didn't even know what that was!) I told him that was the reason I was doing so poorly. The real reason was much simpler: alcohol and boys. He gave me another chance and allowed me to graduate when I brought my GPA up to 2.0 When they called my name at graduation, the Dean stood up and clapped for that " sick little girl with Hodgkin's disease."!! To this day my parents have no idea of this story.

I have since earned another 150 credits and a 3.86 GPA.

No, I wouldn't lie now.

 

[THE instiGATOR]

Originally posted by marleybfour:
•Let me tell you about lying.....Twenty years ago I had a GPA 0f 1.7 and was kicked out of college. I went into a panic as my parents had no idea how badly I was doing. I went to the Dean with a fake medical report that said I had Hogkin's disease. ( I didn't even know what that was!) I told him that was the reason I was doing so poorly. The real reason was much simpler: alcohol and boys. He gave me another chance and allowed me to graduate when I brought my GPA up to 2.0 When they called my name at graduation, the Dean stood up and clapped for that " sick little girl with Hodgkin's disease."!! To this day my parents have no idea of this story.

I have since earned another 150 credits and a 3.86 GPA.

No, I wouldn't lie now.•••

😱 <img src="graemlins/wowie.gif" border="0" alt="[Wowie]" /> 😱

 

[jmejia1]

SDN is a good sample of the outside world: People can hold two very different views and be adament about it. Personally I just can't accept what Jalbrelt did as the right thing. I've never cheated or had the urge to do so, but I understand that people make mistakes because I've made mistakes in other domains in my life.

Unless the student repeatedly turned in plagerized labs even after been warned then that I feel would be grounds to turn to a higher authority.

Honestly, I wouldn't feel comfortable in med school with classmates that have a quick finger to the trigger whenever they see a moral transgression. In medicine you'll see many things you'll know might be wrong, but your collegues are your family and if someone can drop the hammer on a one-time cheating offender as devastating as having them expelled, then I'll be a walking-paranoid afraid I'll say or do something wrong and be turned in to the chief by this particular classmate. That's just my view on it.

 

[Jalby]

And I actually respect your view. I don't respect the other guys view. But in the TA insructions that they give out at the beggining of the year, it says that every case of cheating should be reported to the dean. I'm all for giving people chances to admit there mistake, but my options were extremely limited. Take it to the dean, give the grade the report would have gotton had she done it (which the professor told me to do), or record the grade I think she deserves and hope nobody notices.

 

[Lecular]

I agreed with how Jalbrekt handled the situation.
As a Student Prosecutor at my school, if she had admitted in front of the "Honor Council" that she did do it, I would have recommended probation as well as taking a class on ethics.

However, given that she was insistant on claiming that she did not cheat even though there was evidence, she deserves to be kicked out of the school.

 

[jmejia1]

Hey Jalbrelt, I like how you've handled yourself defending your decision. I have to respect you for that. I'm still in disagreement, but I have to give you credit for doing what you felt was the correct thing.

 

[Jalby]

Gracius.

 

[intoxicatedtiger]

Couldn't you just have failed her lab reports, and told her that she would get zeroes unless she turned in legit reports? And then if she took your actions to the professor or some other higher authority, she would be, more so, shooting herself in the foot?

 

[djipopo]

Although I think that the punishment for cheating in this student's case is a bit harsh, I think that Jalbrekt was completely in line considering that he was obligated to report cheaters to the dean. He was following the school's procedure and if he had not reported the student, he would have placed his own position in jeopardy.

I was also a TA and caught two students cheating, by turning in the exact same paper, one week after I explicitly told them that working together consistuted cheating. I spoke with my advisor, gave each student a zero and pulled them aside after class to explain what consequences they would face if the situation were repeated. Both students eventually dropped the class.

 

[Jalby]

Were not allowed to take off points without going to the dean first. That is what I originally wanted to do, but the professor wouldn't let us.

 

[DrBlueDevil]

Has anyone seen that HBO movie a couple years back called Cheaters? Man that movie's funny!

 

[Shellio]

In my one interview, the interviewer did ask a lot of questions about my ECs (ie, rules of indoor soccer, what did the doctors do with newborns' legs in the hospital) - I thought later that he was trying to be sure I was aware of what was going on around me and knew what I was doing. It never occured to me that he was looking for lies! I was so nervous and uncomfortable about him asking me about things I haven't been involved in for 3-4 years, I probably sounded like I was lying! Well, I got in anyway (yay!) so I guess it was fine. 🙂

 

[serpiente]

Hasn't anyone been asked--would you attend expensive private school X over state school Y (while interviewing at X)? I've certainly been a little less than honest in answering this type of question. When I was honest, I wasn't accepted. I'm just scared that I won't get into my state school (many highly qualified applicants do not). Even if I say that a school is my second choice and explain that I probably won't get into my state school, I feel that I'm less likely to be accpeted than if I make up reasons why I'd rather attend the private school. Am I a terrible person?

 

[Zuleika]

Originally posted by serpiente:
•Hasn't anyone been asked--would you attend expensive private school X over state school Y (while interviewing at X)? I've certainly been a little less than honest in answering this type of question. When I was honest, I wasn't accepted. I'm just scared that I won't get into my state school (many highly qualified applicants do not). Even if I say that a school is my second choice and explain that I probably won't get into my state school, I feel that I'm less likely to be accpeted than if I make up reasons why I'd rather attend the private school. Am I a terrible person?•••


Nah, that's not lying. I've been wondering how to get around that question too (even though I'm not applying until next year). Obviously I want to attend any of the medical schools I'm going to apply to, so if they ask which is my first choice I'll probably list the reasons why I want to go to that specific school. And then explain that I'll be happy just to receive a medical education and will have to weigh my options carefully if I need to choose between acceptances. But I'm only applying to 3 schools, so if you're applying to 20 that might be harder to pull off 🙂

BTW, my school is very harsh on cheating.. the least that will happen is a zero on whatever you cheated on (like a lab report), or a failure in the class if you cheat on an exam. Most likely you'll also be kicked out for at least 6 months with a permanent mark on your transcript. People still work together on lab reports, but I would never outright copy one. I've heard that the engineering faculty turns a blind eye to duplicate assignments, but the faculty of Science is really stingy about cheating.