Difference between MD and DO

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Daniellevk

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I know theres plenty of posts that start off whats the difference between MD and DO.
Well, i haven't found a good post that tells you the straight answer.
So my question what is the difference between MD and DO,
Im really interested in being a OBGYN doctor some day, so which is the better path for me to take?
 
From a practice/clinical standpoint, a board certified OB/GYN physician, as well as virtually any other physician, MD or DO is essentially the same. Where you went to school, where you did residency, which board certifies you, follows virtually the same protocol.
Thank you so much.
 
Same level of training
Both see and treat patients
More venues are open (right now) to MD grads, but this will be less of an issue in the future
From my own personal experience, MDs tend to interact less with patients, and more with their computer screens, and DOs really do bring the cliché to life of "looking at the whole person"...ie, to a DO cardiologist, you're more than just a heart.
Either path is fine.

And google is your friend as well.

I know theres plenty of posts that start off whats the difference between MD and DO.
Well, i haven't found a good post that tells you the straight answer.
So my question what is the difference between MD and DO,
Im really interested in being a OBGYN doctor some day, so which is the better path for me to take?
 
More venues are open (right now) to MD grads, but this will be less of an issue in the future

I would speculate that it would be MORE of an issue in the future as the residency crunch continues and programs looks for any easy way to differentiate the competition. I would think the discrimination against DOs in certain residency programs would be more expansive as time goes on. Thoughts?
 
You clearly did not search hard enough. Weak brah
 
Same level of training
Both see and treat patients
More venues are open (right now) to MD grads, but this will be less of an issue in the future
From my own personal experience, MDs tend to interact less with patients, and more with their computer screens, and DOs really do bring the cliché to life of "looking at the whole person"...ie, to a DO cardiologist, you're more than just a heart.
Either path is fine.

And google is your friend as well.

Shots fired!! :laugh:

I think if you want to do OBGYN, either path will be fine. You'll probably get better results with Google than with the SDN search function as far as the details go.
 
Year by year, it's going the other way. The door is opening wider and wider to DO grads.

I've seen from match lists (which is like reading chicken guts) DOs go to Mayo, U WA JHU, UCSF, Cleveland Clinic, Mt Sinai, and Stanford, to name a few. And yeah, DOs aren't welcome at NYU (yet).

One of the whole point of the merger was to widen that doorway.


I would speculate that it would be MORE of an issue in the future as the residency crunch continues and programs looks for any easy way to differentiate the competition. I would think the discrimination against DOs in certain residency programs would be more expansive as time goes on. Thoughts?
 
DO is just a chiropractor+homeopathic medicine. Do that if you want to learn about the latest snake oil

A DO is basically a regular doctor + a chiropractor of sorts. An MD is just a regular doctor. Identical training with DO's getting a few more lessons.

MD schools are harder to get into, so not all, but a few have an unwarranted sense of superiority. Especially since some states have preferential treatment for their own students whereas other states have no such luck.

I'd say this, if you go DO, and an MD ever tries to whip it out and do a measuring contest (which I never heard happen, a lot of doctors are maturer than that), either do the mature thing, ignore him or her, and just make sure you always are doing the best you can for your patient, not prestige, and you'll be the better doctor. Always treat the whole patient and don't engage in petty contests. You're a healer, not an athlete.

Or you could just really kill Step 1 and Step 2, and pull out that extra long score and make him or blush for thinking their MCAT score made them better doctors.

Just saying. Unless you went to Harvard for undergrad, the top MD school, the best residency in the country, and aren't featured in magazines for all the inventive surgeries you invented, etc., you are always going to run the risk of someone thinking they're better than you. That's just life.

Go where you can get in, do what you love, and don't just do a competent job, but go above and beyond for your patients. The physician that does that, be he (or she) MD or DO, is doing it right. Whether it is a brain surgeon or a family doctor. MD or a DO.
 
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From my own personal experience, MDs tend to interact less with patients, and more with their computer screens, and DOs really do bring the cliché to life of "looking at the whole person"...ie, to a DO cardiologist, you're more than just a heart.
Either path is fine.

I'm guessing your "own personal experience" has consisted of what other people have told you and what you've read online.
 
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I'm guess your "own personal experience" has consisted of what other people have told you and what you've read online.

Nah, it's true. All my deliveries are via computer screen these days. It's the latest MD obstetrics technology.
 
Same level of training
Both see and treat patients
More venues are open (right now) to MD grads, but this will be less of an issue in the future
From my own personal experience, MDs tend to interact less with patients, and more with their computer screens, and DOs really do bring the cliché to life of "looking at the whole person"...ie, to a DO cardiologist, you're more than just a heart.
Either path is fine.

And google is your friend as well.
I'm just an MS1 - but we definitely are not trained to look at a computer screen....

We always incorporate holistic view - as all systems are interconnected.
 
I'm just an MS1 - but we definitely are not trained to look at a computer screen....

We always incorporate holistic view - as all systems are interconnected.

I mean, now that MD schools have adapted the DO "holistic view," the only differences I see are OMT, the letters after your name, and residency opportunities.
 
@Goro Since DOs and MDs are so similar, why aren't there similar admissions standards? Ye I know they don't very by much but still.

Let's get real, with enough time, anyone can become a DO w/ grade replacement. What are your thoughts on the future of admissions standards?
 
@Goro Since DOs and MDs are so similar, why aren't there similar admissions standards? Ye I know they don't very by much but still.

Let's get real, with enough time, anyone can become a DO w/ grade replacement. What are your thoughts on the future of admissions standards?

Because the demand for MD is a lot higher than the demand of DO. Otherwise, we wouldn't be seeing threads like "Should I go for US DO or Caribbean MD??"

Admission standards and requirements adapt to reflect the increasing demand.
 
Because the demand for MD is a lot higher than the demand of DO. Otherwise, we wouldn't be seeing threads like "Should I go for US DO or Caribbean MD??"

Admission standards and requirements adapt to reflect the increasing demand.
Out of curiosity what's your relation to the field?
 
DO schools are more forgiving of academic mistakes, given that a 3.4/28 person will perform just as well in medical school as someone with a 3.6/35.

DO schools have had a bad rap (sometimes self-inflicted, others based out of complete ignorance), so large numbers of high stat candidates select out of the pool, (or don't know anything about DOs to begin with.)

It's really a gradient. Looks at, say, Mercer's or LSU's stats compared to Emory or Tulane. You have a sliding scale of talent that starts at the top with HMS/Wash U ect rolling across to, well, LUCOM.

Over the past decade the avg stats of DO schools have been creeping up, so that if you look at LizzyM scores, the top DO schools (say, CCOM) overlap with a number of MD schools.

If Rosy Franklin or Drexel tightened up their standards to say, Pitt's or Cornell's, how many people would end up there???

@Goro Since DOs and MDs are so similar, why aren't there similar admissions standards? Ye I know they don't very by much but still.

Let's get real, with enough time, anyone can become a DO w/ grade replacement. What are your thoughts on the future of admissions standards?

My school has considerably raised its standards since I joined the Faculty. There's a marked difference in the people we interview now, vs 12 years ago.
 
Op there is 1% difference. Dos learn omm which is an extra tool in their arsenal of care. Before you even apply there's one question you should ask yourself . Do you care about title or do you want to just provide the best care possible? Also just a side note I've noticed do students are the ones in the science classes that did all the extra work for that A as apposed to a majority of md student who it clicked for on the first try
 
Because the demand for MD is a lot higher than the demand of DO. Otherwise, we wouldn't be seeing threads like "Should I go for US DO or Caribbean MD??"

Admission standards and requirements adapt to reflect the increasing demand.

There is no more of a demand for MDs than DOs. There is a demand for physicians.

You can't just say that because the average admissions standards are higher for MD schools than DO schools, there therefore is a higher demand for MDs. Admissions standards are based on interest and applicant pool competitiveness.

Edit: Confusion
 
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I'm certain threads like you mentioned are a reliable sample size to confirm this "demand." There is no more of a demand for MDs than DOs. There is a demand for physicians.

You can't just say that because the average admissions standards are higher for MD schools than DO schools, there therefore is a higher demand for MDs. Admissions standards are based on interest and applicant pool competitiveness.

less interest hence less demand
 
less interest hence less demand

Are you talking about demand in the medical setting or applicant interest for medical schools? It's rather odd to use "demand" to describe the latter. 😵 ...am I the only one confused by this? Lol. :thinking:
 
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Same training, except DOs take one extra class that is completely useless in the practical world.

As soon as everyone figures this out, and realize DO schools cater to a certain mentality of person (i.e. holistic approach) that can - surprise surprise - be met by MDs too, they'll get rid of the title and go back to MD.

If you have to choose between MD and DO, go MD for the sole reason that there are a lot of old-timers in medicine that look down on the DO title.
 
Because the demand for MD is a lot higher than the demand of DO. Otherwise, we wouldn't be seeing threads like "Should I go for US DO or Caribbean MD??"

Admission standards and requirements adapt to reflect the increasing demand.

Because the overall applicant interest for MD is a lot higher than the overall applicant interest of DO.

Admissions standards and requirements adapt to reflect the increasing overall applicant interest.

When you say "demand," I'm thinking you mean what the medical industry is looking for. (Or is that actually what you mean? :thinking:
 
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Although this is something that has definitely been :beat: I'll try and state my opinion without bashing one side *cough* person who wrote this "MDs tend to interact less with patients, and more with their computer screens, and DOs really do bring the cliché to life of "looking at the whole person"...ie, to a DO cardiologist, you're more than just a heart."

As a faculty member Goro, I would expect better of you than to be backhandedly putting down MDs.

Moving on: The numbers and personal experiences don't lie. Bottom line is, more opportunities are available to US MDs. The training is less fragmented as many DO schools have no home base/home hospital and ship their students all over vs. most MD schools have their own teaching hospital. And ultimately the obstacles you will face getting into a residency and if you're looking to sub-specialize in any field are larger for a DO student. I doubt anyone will argue with me here.

If you have the opportunity to go to an MD school I would tell you to choose that over DO, not because of superiority but for the sole reason that the road you will travel to get to where you want to go will be easier. Why make life harder on yourself? Med school is already a hefty challenge. There will be those who will argue and say, well if you want to be a more "holistic" doctor you should consider DO. Well I'm pretty sure no where does it state "can't become a doctor with a holistic view of patient if MD". It's a personal choice you make as a physician and while a DO school may be a little more aggressive about it, we all strive to do this.

Other than that, DO = MD. Oh aside from OMM but I would wager that the majority of practicing DO's do not incorporate this in their daily lives as a physician. I wouldn't call it a useless skill, as I wholeheartedly believe in integrative/alternative medicine but it is a skill that unfortunately is used - less in reality.
 
Isn't this changing?

All AOA programs that become ACGME accredited will still be denoted as "osteopathic-focused" many of which will still require OMM training. How OMM training will be implemented to MD's is beyond me....but I'm sure they'll knock out any cert. requirement with ease.

A lot of people in the DO world including I were misinformed regarding the rationale behind the merger. It wasn't meant for equality, it was because ACGME was about to bar AOA trained residents from even being eligible for ACGME fellowship!
 
Why is this still being questioned though? The education is essentially the same, save a few added issues in osteopathic medicine. This is just so endlessly annoying to me. Perhaps it really comes down to a marketing and branding thing.
 
Differences - not enough to matter. Just apply to both and don't worry about it, otherwise you're setting yourself for a potentially tortuous reapplication cycle given how competitive this process is.

Though I will say that the DOs I know tend to be more down to earth, whereas the MD crowd seems way more furiously competitive and insulated.
 
Although this is something that has definitely been :beat: I'll try and state my opinion without bashing one side *cough* person who wrote this "MDs tend to interact less with patients, and more with their computer screens, and DOs really do bring the cliché to life of "looking at the whole person"...ie, to a DO cardiologist, you're more than just a heart."

As a faculty member Goro, I would expect better of you than to be backhandedly putting down MDs.

Moving on: The numbers and personal experiences don't lie. Bottom line is, more opportunities are available to US MDs. The training is less fragmented as many DO schools have no home base/home hospital and ship their students all over vs. most MD schools have their own teaching hospital. And ultimately the obstacles you will face getting into a residency and if you're looking to sub-specialize in any field are larger for a DO student. I doubt anyone will argue with me here.

If you have the opportunity to go to an MD school I would tell you to choose that over DO, not because of superiority but for the sole reason that the road you will travel to get to where you want to go will be easier. Why make life harder on yourself? Med school is already a hefty challenge. There will be those who will argue and say, well if you want to be a more "holistic" doctor you should consider DO. Well I'm pretty sure no where does it state "can't become a doctor with a holistic view of patient if MD". It's a personal choice you make as a physician and while a DO school may be a little more aggressive about it, we all strive to do this.

Other than that, DO = MD. Oh aside from OMM but I would wager that the majority of practicing DO's do not incorporate this in their daily lives as a physician. I wouldn't call it a useless skill, as I wholeheartedly believe in integrative/alternative medicine but it is a skill that unfortunately is used - less in reality.


I hate to be unfair and generalize--seriously. There is so much that comes down to the individual practitioner. Still, other than the cardiology part, the bold part is TOTALLY my FP physician. He's not just personable and caring and non-computer-focused. He's thorough as well. I personally chose to stop seeing the MD in the family practice office for this reason. The DO physician listens. He's smart and knowledgeable. He's really way more experienced overall. And he is VERY approachable. And he is careful, and he's not an alarmist, but neither does he blow anything off.
 
Two of the best cardiothoracic surgeons with whom I have worked are/were DOs. There M&Ms were top, and I loved recovering even their more complicated patients. They both were multiple award-winning surgeons. I was very fortunate to have had the opportunity to work with them.
 
Two of the best cardiothoracic surgeons with whom I have worked are/were DOs. There M&Ms were top, and I loved recovering even their more complicated patients. They both were multiple award-winning surgeons. I was very fortunate to have had the opportunity to work with them.
Yes, while I also know plenty of DO surgeons (neuro, uro, vascular, etc...) I don't think a single one has ever told me that it wasn't a tough uphill battle. Especially the most recent neurosurgeon I talked to made it sound like he had to (and still has to) jump through many more hoops than his MD counterparts.

Also, most DO schools tend to shy away from research. This is another reason I think DO applicants have more of an uphill battle for competitive specialties. Even being at the most research heavy DO school, I sense a real disinterest in research from most of my classmates (besides the DO/PhD students, of course) and the administration applies absolutely zero pressure to do research.

But really, excellent primary care residencies are attainable if you do well at a DO school. If you want a more competitive speciality, it's often up to you to seek out the research necessary and to go the extra mile(s) without much support. So yes, everything is possible as long as you have the work ethic and a realistic idea of where your grades/scores/research/experience stacks up.
 
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When you say "demand," I'm thinking you mean what the medical industry is looking for. (Or is that actually what you mean? :thinking:

I apologize for the confusion. I'm referring to medical school admissions as the seller's market here because they are providing the services necessary to train medical students into the clinical sector. The applicants here are the buyers, since they are paying tuition to acquire those services.

The demand reflects on applicants' choices, and so far, applicants view MD to be more prestigious than DO. As such, more applicants are applying to MD programs (and are even stupid enough to go Caribbean for the sake of that MD degree). So the demand for US MD programs is greater than the demand for US DO programs (demand = applicants' choices). Medical schools realize this and act accordingly.

This is why you see grade replacement favored by DOs, but not by MDs. It's also why MD academic averages are higher than those of DOs.

The same economic argument can be used to explain why Top 20 schools require extensive research and unique backgrounds, why there is an IS variation in some states but not others etc. It's a seller's market, and medical schools have complete market power to decide what applicants to select.
 
I hate to be unfair and generalize--seriously. There is so much that comes down to the individual practitioner. Still, other than the cardiology part, the bold part is TOTALLY my FP physician. He's not just personable and caring and non-computer-focused. He's thorough as well. I personally chose to stop seeing the MD in the family practice office for this reason. The DO physician listens. He's smart and knowledgeable. He's really way more experienced overall. And he is VERY approachable. And he is careful, and he's not an alarmist, but neither does he blow anything off.

I hate to perpetuate this thread....but I can't help it with comments like this. You can't just tell part of the story and play if off as just showing an "example" but saying "oh it does come down to the individual". Is the MD fresh out of residency? Is he just younger in general? Perhaps that's why he seems less experienced and knowledgeable. Does this mean the DO is "a better, more caring doctor?" Absolutely not. If they're the same age with same amount of practice years then it's unfortunate you feel that way and maybe the MD really isn't as great but I have run across many many an allopathically trained MD that are just as awesome with patient care where all their patients absolutely adore them. This is not a rarity. And on the flip side I've run across DO physicians that are terrible doctors, mistakes left and right. Am I therefore going to generalize this to all DO's? Of course not.

Plain and simple: What kind of doctor you'll be is be largely based already on what kind of person you are. For every example someone has of one particular incidence, someone else will have an example to counter it. So let's stop with these ridiculous posts of how "My DO cares so much more about me as a person." Good for you. I'm glad you have a great physician taking care of you. That's all it should be about. Being a great physician, no matter DO or MD.

#endrant
 
I hate to perpetuate this thread....but I can't help it with comments like this. You can't just tell part of the story and play if off as just showing an "example" but saying "oh it does come down to the individual". Is the MD fresh out of residency? Is he just younger in general? Perhaps that's why he seems less experienced and knowledgeable. Does this mean the DO is "a better, more caring doctor?" Absolutely not. If they're the same age with same amount of practice years then it's unfortunate you feel that way and maybe the MD really isn't as great but I have run across many many an allopathically trained MD that are just as awesome with patient care where all their patients absolutely adore them. This is not a rarity. And on the flip side I've run across DO physicians that are terrible doctors, mistakes left and right. Am I therefore going to generalize this to all DO's? Of course not.

Plain and simple: What kind of doctor you'll be is be largely based already on what kind of person you are. For every example someone has of one particular incidence, someone else will have an example to counter it. So let's stop with these ridiculous posts of how "My DO cares so much more about me as a person." Good for you. I'm glad you have a great physician taking care of you. That's all it should be about. Being a great physician, no matter DO or MD.

#endrant

Agreed!! When I was a resident, one of the attendings I looked up to the most was a DO. One of the attendings I liked the least was an MD. By the logic of some posters in this thread, I can now generalize that all DOs are amazing and all MDs are terrible. Because "I don't want to generalize, but I want to say something, so here's a generalization."
 
I hate to perpetuate this thread....but I can't help it with comments like this. You can't just tell part of the story and play if off as just showing an "example" but saying "oh it does come down to the individual". Is the MD fresh out of residency? Is he just younger in general? Perhaps that's why he seems less experienced and knowledgeable. Does this mean the DO is "a better, more caring doctor?" Absolutely not. If they're the same age with same amount of practice years then it's unfortunate you feel that way and maybe the MD really isn't as great but I have run across many many an allopathically trained MD that are just as awesome with patient care where all their patients absolutely adore them. This is not a rarity. And on the flip side I've run across DO physicians that are terrible doctors, mistakes left and right. Am I therefore going to generalize this to all DO's? Of course not.

Plain and simple: What kind of doctor you'll be is be largely based already on what kind of person you are. For every example someone has of one particular incidence, someone else will have an example to counter it. So let's stop with these ridiculous posts of how "My DO cares so much more about me as a person." Good for you. I'm glad you have a great physician taking care of you. That's all it should be about. Being a great physician, no matter DO or MD.

#endrant


I have stated it is an individual thing. I have only shared some of my experiences. At work, it an individual thing too. We can't generalize, b/c of what I will call the UIQ--the Unique Individual Quotient. I just wonder, at times, if the models through the educational process have more of a "business" approach compared with others. If the examples or mentors through the educational/training process are more, for lack of a better term, "business" oriented, it will influence how the practitioner moves forward very often. I have been in HC long enough to see this. If the educational/training process includes and emphasis on holistic approach as much as all the other stuff, that will influence the learner as well. Yes, it will be an individual thing, but those that educate and train you will make an impact as well. There has been a trend in the last few decades to move toward a more holistic approach. Some have embraced it, while others have not. It's kind of like being ultra-rigid with Evidence Based Practice. It's a good thing; but it will and can never be everything. There are too many other variables, and ultimately, like it or not, medicine is as much an art as it is a science. Some are just more apt to develop the art part of it--due to their own UIQ, but also due to those that influence and train them all the way through. LOL, it's kind of like a nature/nurture thing.

And at the end of the day, it's just one person's perspective that I share here. I and not saying it's gospel. 🙂
 
Yes, while I also know plenty of DO surgeons (neuro, uro, vascular, etc...) I don't think a single one has ever told me that it wasn't a tough uphill battle. Especially the most recent neurosurgeon I talked to made it sound like he had to (and still has to) jump through many more hoops than his MD counterparts.

Also, most DO schools tend to shy away from research. This is another reason I think DO applicants have more of an uphill battle for competitive specialties. Even being at the most research heavy DO school, I sense a real disinterest in research from most of my classmates (besides the DO/PhD students, of course) and the administration applies absolutely zero pressure to do research.

But really, excellent primary care residencies are attainable if you do well at a DO school. If you want a more competitive speciality, it's often up to you to seek out the research necessary and to go the extra mile(s) without much support. So yes, everything is possible as long as you have the work ethic and a realistic idea of where your grades/scores/research/experience stacks up.


Right! Much of it will be up to the individual. Yes, those DOs had a bit of a battle, but becoming a surgeon is usually a big battle. This is what I have witnessed with regard to the specialty. I am not young enough and I don't think I have the right personality to pursue a surgical specialty. I know this going in. It's a very tough road, period.
 
Agreed!! When I was a resident, one of the attendings I looked up to the most was a DO. One of the attendings I liked the least was an MD. By the logic of some posters in this thread, I can now generalize that all DOs are amazing and all MDs are terrible. Because "I don't want to generalize, but I want to say something, so here's a generalization."
Sadly most of the posters in pre-allo have this mentality, which is mostly based on ignorance and very small exposures to people with either degree.
 
I apologize for the confusion. I'm referring to medical school admissions as the seller's market here because they are providing the services necessary to train medical students into the clinical sector. The applicants here are the buyers, since they are paying tuition to acquire those services.

The demand reflects on applicants' choices, and so far, applicants view MD to be more prestigious than DO. As such, more applicants are applying to MD programs (and are even stupid enough to go Caribbean for the sake of that MD degree). So the demand for US MD programs is greater than the demand for US DO programs (demand = applicants' choices). Medical schools realize this and act accordingly.

This is why you see grade replacement favored by DOs, but not by MDs. It's also why MD academic averages are higher than those of DOs.

The same economic argument can be used to explain why Top 20 schools require extensive research and unique backgrounds, why there is an IS variation in some states but not others etc. It's a seller's market, and medical schools have complete market power to decide what applicants to select.


Yep. There is no denying the economic aspect of this. But in a sense, this can help reduce some of the negative perception re: DO. Why? B/c DO schools have delivered excellent post-graduate doctors in many cases. So what if they are viewed as the underdogs? People love to see the underdogs be winners in the end.

The bottom line is that all the research and extra GPA points in the world to that point of competition will not necessarily affect the quality of the physician produced. That is to say, simply b/c for allopathic, it is what the market will bear, does not mean you are getting less quality in physicians through the less prestigious or more competitive programs. Sure it happens, but overall, I say it doesn't count in the long run where it's up to the individual and his/her dedication to practice that will make the difference.

Listen, my pets have gone to vets from top-notch programs, and those from lower-tier programs--comparatively speaking. In the end, it's a highly individual thing. Same thing with various specialists and people. Unless someone is really having trouble with learning the material and then applying it clinically, the whole thing is non sequitur.

People want their physicians to be bright, caring, dedicated, approachable, insightful, and highly skilled. All those things can come to a physician, regardless of whether he/she pursues DO or MD, higher-tier school versus lower-tier or not if the innate intelligence, motivation, and dedication is there. There are programs and mentors that can influence and help foster this in students and graduates, but at the end of the day, it's up to the individual.

Sick people are scared, perhaps in pain, troubled by the limiting aspects of their illness. They want a cure or if not possible, some effective treatment, relief, and nowadays, even good prevention monitoring. If they need a surgeon, hell yea. They will hopefully want one that is adept and well versed in what she or he is doing for them. With re: to the later, sure. I might choose to sacrifice a great bedside manner for good operative/outcome stats and high expertise in the particular procedures. Ideally, however, I'd want both; b/c it's important to know that your provider is approachable--even if he or she is a very busy surgeon.
 
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