Difficulties after doing vet school abroad?

[IndigoHimmy]

Hello!
I hope this is the right forum to post this. I am Atlantic Canadian. I've just been rejected from UPEI in Canada. I'm wondering if anybody here has any experience with studying abroad (either at an AVMA-accredited or non-accredited school). How hard is it to get a job in Canada? Does the non-accreditation mean you can't work in Canada, or just that there are extra steps?

I appreciate any insight you can give me!

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[CalliopeDVM]

I've worked with vets who've gone to AVMA accredited schools abroad, and those who've gone to non-accredited schools.........Those that have gone to accredited schools haven't faced any discrimination in getting jobs because of the school, but they said it was harder to find a job initially because it was harder for them to go see clinics and interview until they moved back (and that meant there were looking for jobs a little later). The Canadian I know who went to a non-accredited school regretted it, because of the long and expensive process to get licensed to work back home. The process can take many years and cost many thousands.

It's certainly possible to work in Canada after going to a non-accredited school, but I wouldn't recommend it -- either wait and apply to AVC again next year, or go to an accredited school.

 

[Caia]

Everyone I know of that trained at an AVMA accredited school abroad had no issues getting a job, but Calliope is right, the job search itself was more challenging due to the logistics of being out of the country when you want to start looking.

I wouldn't recommend going to a non-accredited school either. The process to become licensed is a long, difficult and expensive path and not worth it, imo.

If this was your first time applying, I wouldn't give up yet. It takes a lot of people 2 or 3 tries to get in. Keep in mind, going abroad is going to be exponentially more expensive than staying in Canada. I would make sure you've exhausted applying to UPEI before taking on a full mortgage worth of extra debt to get the same degree.

 

[IndigoHimmy]

Thank you both! Such quick replies It was my first time so I am definitely applying again, and am thinking of becoming a permanent resident of PEI to try to increase my chances a little (I'm from NL, they only have 3 spots for us a year... not great odds) Just wanted to see what options I might have. If I go the abroad route, I'll definitely make sure it is a school that is AVMA accredited. The debt does scare me, so it definitely is a "last resort" kind of option, but it's good to know that it won't put me at a disadvantage education/job-wise for not having attended school in Canada.

Thanks again!

 

[boncloddy]

Speaking as someone from NL just finishing up my first year at AVC, I would really encourage you to not give up so easily on attending. I’m sure it’s tough getting a rejection, but the vast majority of people don’t get accepted on their first application cycle, especially from NL. Additionally, because of the regionalized nature of the application pool, how competitive you may be can really vary from year to year - so maybe this year was an exceptionally competitive pool of applicants, but it’s possible next year won’t be quite as bad.

Do a file review, see where you need to improve, and work on your application for next year. You could consider moving to PEI and establishing residency, but that’s a drastic move after only one rejection, and it’s also not especially easy to find work here.

Not only is AVC a great school and well worth the effort to attend, you will be saving yourself a boatload of money - and while that may not seem like a big deal now when all you want to do is get accepted and attend vet school, nine chances out of ten you’ll be kicking yourself a few years down the road when you see the loans and lines of credit pile up, and get hit with the reality of starting salaries.

 

[IndigoHimmy]

You could consider moving to PEI and establishing residency, but that’s a drastic move after only one rejection, and it’s also not especially easy to find work here.

The biggest thing for me about this is, I'm currently at school in Toronto - finishing up now, have my bachelors (yay..), but don't want to lose my atlantic canada residency (plus rent is RIDICULOUS). Newfoundland job prospects aren't so lovely either (as I'm sure you know) so I figured if I'm going anywhere I might as well go somewhere that might increase my chances (I've heard NL and NS are the worst, NB and PEI better - maybe you have insight on that?). The only upside about going back to Newfoundland would be to save rent by living with my parents.. but I likely wouldn't have any better luck of finding a job by doing that either.
My head's just all over the place now. I knew chances weren't great, my grades are pretty mediocre, and thought I'd prepared myself for being rejected but it hit me a lot harder than I thought. Plus I'm 24 so I assume I'm already older than a lot of applicants and don't want to delay too much. I'm sure others feel this way but it's a struggle right now.

 

[boncloddy]

It depends on what your definition of mediocre is, but aside from moving to try and establish yourself in a less competitive pool and hope your marks will get you in there, you can also try and focus on improving your application.

It’s easier said than done, because of the “no repeated courses” requirement for AVC, but it’s not impossible, and I speak from personal experience. I did my undergrad at MUN and my grades were laughable, I knew there was no way of getting in so after a lot of maturing and sorting myself out, I went back to school in NS, rejigged my schedule so the courses qualified as pre-reqs, and I was fortunate enough to get accepted.

I’m 28 this year and while I’m one of the older students in my class, I’m not the oldest by a number of years. Don’t let being 24 be any sort of deterrent or source of stress for you. If anything, I feel in some ways it’s an advantage to me because I feel like I have a different perspective than someone who came straight out of high school to university and on into vet school.

Rejection is a blow and of course it’s ok to sit with that for a little bit, but let it be an impetus for change and self-improvement rather than something that paralyzes you. You’ve admitted you weren’t putting your best foot forward (mediocre grades) and now you realize that won’t get you to where you want to go. That’s fine, you can do something about that. Identify where you need to improve, communicate with AVC on their recommendations, consider looking at what courses qualify at MUN that you could take to improve your entrance average. Consider this a test of what will be much needed resiliency when you do get accepted into the program, because if the process of getting in feels like a struggle, it’s just in preparation for the face-poundings you will receive on a regular basis for the four years of your program. But if it’s what you truly want, I promise it’s worth it.

 

[IndigoHimmy]

Thank you for literally everything in that response. I've been pretty down the past few days, and most people don't seem to understand. This is something I planned to do as a child then "rebelled" at 18, and at 22 realized I'd regretted that and tried to get back on track.
Knowing that someone else was in a similar position and still got in is extremely comforting. I've been in touch with John (Jack?) MacDougall who told me how to calculate my score (which isn't as bad as I thought, if I've calculated it properly) and will be calling within the next few days to discuss how I can improve it. The biggest issue for me is that I really didn't know what I wanted to do and I just floated through my undergrad, screwing around and hardly studying so some of those core courses (like genetics, which I actually enjoy but just didn't take seriously at the time 4 years ago) are in the C range. I wish I could just repeat it! But perhaps there's other ways around it.

Thank you again.

 

[Log8]

As an American who decided to study in Brazil, and then validate my diploma afterwards, it's not a bad option, really. I think it's different for everyone, and for me, it's been great. I'm finishing up my last year of school down here (it's 4.5 years at my school), and the way I looked at it was, either I do 4 years of pre vet, HOPE I'm good enough to get into vet school, pay the 60k/year for another 4 years, and be done, OR I do 4.5 years in Brazil at roughly 8k Reais a semester, go back to the US, do the PAVE (another year), do the NAVLE, and boom. I will have spent less time and money.

Is it a hassle? Undoubtedly. But again, I think it just depends on your personal preference.

PS: My school was not only non-accredited, it was not even recognized by the AVMA, so that was just one more thing I had to figure out and to me, it was still worth it.

 

[Coquette22]

pay the 60k/year for another 4 years, and be done, OR I do 4.5 years in Brazil at roughly 8k Reais a semester, go back to the US, do the PAVE (another year), do the NAVLE, and boom. I will have spent less time and money.

As an aside, it is a huge financial incentive to stay in Canada. Resident tuition at AVC is ~13k a year, versus most internatinal schools which will likely be substantially more expensive.

 

[DVMDream]

As an American who decided to study in Brazil, and then validate my diploma afterwards, it's not a bad option, really. I think it's different for everyone, and for me, it's been great. I'm finishing up my last year of school down here (it's 4.5 years at my school), and the way I looked at it was, either I do 4 years of pre vet, HOPE I'm good enough to get into vet school, pay the 60k/year for another 4 years, and be done, OR I do 4.5 years in Brazil at roughly 8k Reais a semester, go back to the US, do the PAVE (another year), do the NAVLE, and boom. I will have spent less time and money.

Is it a hassle? Undoubtedly. But again, I think it just depends on your personal preference.

PS: My school was not only non-accredited, it was not even recognized by the AVMA, so that was just one more thing I had to figure out and to me, it was still worth it.

I think you should wait to comment on how well this worked out for you until after the NAVLE/PAVE and other qualifying exams. Last vet I met from an unrecognized vet school attempted all the qualifying steps and couldn't get those to work. He had to start over and apply to vet school in the US and started vet school about a year ago. Basically, he's doing vet school twice.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

I think you should wait to comment on how well this worked out for you until after the NAVLE/PAVE and other qualifying exams. Last vet I met from an unrecognized vet school attempted all the qualifying steps and couldn't get those to work. He had to start over and apply to vet school in the US and started vet school about a year ago. Basically, he's doing vet school twice.

Yup......the person I met didn't have to go back to school, but did spend almost 5 years and $10,000 to become legally licensed. Don't get me wrong - I hope it works out in your favour, but I've heard from several vets who spent many years (and lost years of vet income) trying to become licensed here. Let us know how it works out for you.

 

[Log8]

I think you should wait to comment on how well this worked out for you until after the NAVLE/PAVE and other qualifying exams. Last vet I met from an unrecognized vet school attempted all the qualifying steps and couldn't get those to work. He had to start over and apply to vet school in the US and started vet school about a year ago. Basically, he's doing vet school twice.

First of all, thanks for the vote of confidence lol. But I do get it. There's definitely a degree of skepticism when I tell people of what I'm doing. But it can be done. The steps are pretty straight forward; have the school recognized, enroll in the pave (take the QSE etc), NAVLE etc.

I honestly can't see how this wouldn't work. I've studied the steps and I got into school with a clear understanding of the process, and while I have no crystal ball, I'm confident things will be fine.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

First of all, thanks for the vote of confidence lol. But I do get it. There's definitely a degree of skepticism when I tell people of what I'm doing. But it can be done. The steps are pretty straight forward; have the school recognized, enroll in the pave (take the QSE etc), NAVLE etc.

I honestly can't see how this wouldn't work. I've studied the steps and I got into school with a clear understanding of the process, and while I have no crystal ball, I'm confident things will be fine.

Yes, it can be done and the steps are straightforward. But they're still slow and steep.

 

[DVMDream]

First of all, thanks for the vote of confidence lol. But I do get it. There's definitely a degree of skepticism when I tell people of what I'm doing. But it can be done. The steps are pretty straight forward; have the school recognized, enroll in the pave (take the QSE etc), NAVLE etc.

I honestly can't see how this wouldn't work. I've studied the steps and I got into school with a clear understanding of the process, and while I have no crystal ball, I'm confident things will be fine.

Let's put it this way. I am a licensed veterinarian and I've heard first hand what they put people through from foreign schools. I'd struggle to pass some of that **** and I've got two years of experience under my belt.

I'm not saying the steps aren't straightforward or simple, but that's on paper. In practice, actually going through them, it is a slow, painful process. And that has nothing to do with the individuals or their abilities and everything to do with the process.

 

[Log8]

Let's put it this way. I am a licensed veterinarian and I've heard first hand what they put people through from foreign schools. I'd struggle to pass some of that **** and I've got two years of experience under my belt.

I'm not saying the steps aren't straightforward or simple, but that's on paper. In practice, actually going through them, it is a slow, painful process. And that has nothing to do with the individuals or their abilities and everything to do with the process.

I'll totally agree with that. I mean, you're not wrong. I assume you're referring to the ECFVG. If you go down that road, although quicker, it's a nightmare of a test. I downloaded the manual for the CPE which is the practical test. Let me tell you. Now THAT is intense. Having said that, there is a more "hold my hand, sweet child" approach which is the PAVE. If you do that, you basically enroll in the last year of American vet school. I look at it as either jumping into the frozen lake head first, as opposed to slowly lowering yourself in the water.

Again, there is totally merit to what everyone has said before me. I don't mean to say "THIS IS AMAZING AND EVERYONE SHOULD TOTALLY DO IT", but this was a conscious and calculated decision that I made, and for some, it really can work, depending on what kind of person you are, how you prefer to study, what your goals are, etc.