Dilemma. Advice for c/o 2023 application cycle?

[Chubbster]

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Hey guys.

I'm just trying to plan ahead since I'm currently waitlisted at 2 of the schools I applied to. I need to start thinking of the possibility that I won't get in this cycle and look towards the next cycle.

However, I received some unfortunate news from the vet I work under. He's fallen very ill and is closing the practice and he has already moved back to his hometown. Basically retiring and I believe he is just closing the practice and not selling to another vet. This means I won't be able to receive a LoR from the only vet I've worked under.

I'm currently about to start trying to look for a new vet to work/shadow/intern under but I'm unsure if I can find one to work under in time for it to be adequate to ask for a LoR.

Any advice? Should I just not apply this next cycle and wait a year to build experience? I would prefer not to as I don't want to burden my parents more but I will if it is better that way.
Is it okay to find unpaid experience or does working experience look better? I've already had a difficult time finding a practice that is accepting interns or even hiring without being a LVT.

 

[Vombatidae]

I'm not in the same situation but when I was applying my vet LOR was a committee letter from several ER doctors that I shadowed and assisted with over the course of maybe 8 or so months. I work full time so I could only volunteer about 10 hours a week, however, I felt that they knew me well and were able to write a solid LOR on my behalf. I personally wouldn't take off a whole year in the hopes of a better letter, but then again I don't know how much you can be there and make a solid connection.

On a side note, if he already wrote you a LOR, did you ask him if you can just have a copy of it or resubmit the same one?

 

[Chubbster]

I'm not in the same situation but when I was applying my vet LOR was a committee letter from several ER doctors that I shadowed and assisted with over the course of maybe 8 or so months. I work full time so I could only volunteer about 10 hours a week, however, I felt that they knew me well and were able to write a solid LOR on my behalf. I personally wouldn't take off a whole year in the hopes of a better letter, but then again I don't know how much you can be there and make a solid connection.

On a side note, if he already wrote you a LOR, did you ask him if you can just have a copy of it or resubmit the same one?

Are you allowed to resubmit the same LoR? I have heard of schools that call vets so that would be an unfortunate situation if they were to call the clinic that's no longer there. They would have no proof that I actually worked under a vet since he does not use a phone and/or email, it's something the office manager would deal with (very old school, I'm afraid lol).

I'm hoping to find a full time job (unsure if animal related since I need to find something sustainable that I could live off of and let's be honest, vet assistants/kennel techs make pretty bad money. I'd have to discuss with my parents the course of action money-wise)

 

[SkiOtter]

Are you allowed to resubmit the same LoR? I have heard of schools that call vets so that would be an unfortunate situation if they were to call the clinic that's no longer there. They would have no proof that I actually worked under a vet since he does not use a phone and/or email, it's something the office manager would deal with (very old school, I'm afraid lol).

I'm hoping to find a full time job (unsure if animal related since I need to find something sustainable that I could live off of and let's be honest, vet assistants/kennel techs make pretty bad money. I'd have to discuss with my parents the course of action money-wise)

Edit:
I'd also like to add I'm in Texas so I'd need to have find anew vet anyway for their TMDSAS application. So darn

If you wanted a LOR from him he’d be required to have access to an email. That’s how the requests for eLORs are sent out for vmcas (and probably tmdsas) and then they fill it all out online. I’m sorry you’re in this situation 🙁
Edit: missed the part where you said you were waitlisted at two schools this cycle. Doesn’t change the fact that he’d have to have an email to get the request 😛

 

[LyraGardenia]

Are you allowed to resubmit the same LoR? I have heard of schools that call vets so that would be an unfortunate situation if they were to call the clinic that's no longer there. They would have no proof that I actually worked under a vet since he does not use a phone and/or email, it's something the office manager would deal with (very old school, I'm afraid lol).

I'm hoping to find a full time job (unsure if animal related since I need to find something sustainable that I could live off of and let's be honest, vet assistants/kennel techs make pretty bad money. I'd have to discuss with my parents the course of action money-wise)

You can have him resubmit the same letter. If you were continuing to work for him and he didn't update it that might look strange, but that's not the case here. UGA is the only school I've ever heard of contacting references, for the most part it's on the honor system, but you could include a note in the description of the experience explaining that he has since retired, or you could see if he would be comfortable with you including his personal phone number if he has one.

In response to your question about unpaid experience, plenty of people have been accepted to vet school with just shadowing experience! If you need to take an unrelated job and just shadow on the side, there's nothing wrong with that. But I would definitely ask if he could resubmit his letter rather than trying to get one from someone who's only known you for about 6 months max.

 

[Chubbster]

If you wanted a LOR from him he’d be required to have access to an email. That’s how the requests for eLORs are sent out for vmcas (and probably tmdsas) and then they fill it all out online. I’m sorry you’re in this situation 🙁
Edit: missed the part where you said you were waitlisted at two schools this cycle. Doesn’t change the fact that he’d have to have an email to get the request 😛

Oh yeah I know that haha. He got the office manager to submit it for him.

You can have him resubmit the same letter. If you were continuing to work for him and he didn't update it that might look strange, but that's not the case here. UGA is the only school I've ever heard of contacting references, for the most part it's on the honor system, but you could include a note in the description of the experience explaining that he has since retired, or you could see if he would be comfortable with you including his personal phone number if he has one.

In response to your question about unpaid experience, plenty of people have been accepted to vet school with just shadowing experience! If you need to take an unrelated job and just shadow on the side, there's nothing wrong with that. But I would definitely ask if he could resubmit his letter rather than trying to get one from someone who's only known you for about 6 months max.

I'm sure he wouldn't mind resubmitting the letter but I'd have to find a way to contact him now since he left so suddenly. Hopefully the stuff from the clinic we're shipping to him is where he is!

Edit: I'm hoping it's enough! I know my experience is lacking in variety so I'm hoping to build up on that.

 

[britzen]

I would still use him as a reference unless you are required to submit a letter from a current practicing veterinarian. He was a licensed vet when you acquired the experience under him, so I see no reason that would be any different than another vet who isn't retired.

Even if an admissions office requires a practicing vet letter, you can always contact admissions offices and explain the situation. They may allow the letter anyway even if he's retired.

And, it sounds awful to think of but... If you think he may pass away before you apply again, you might ask for a copy of the letter to keep, even several copies in sealed/signed envelopes. I can't remember if VMCAS had the opportunity to upload items, but you might be able to include it, snail mail style or as an upload, as supplemental material with your application.

I bring this up because my husband's supervisor from his ONLY previous job died suddenly after my husband went back to school for a new career. Before he died, this supervisor had provided my husband with a letter of recommendation that my husband had a copy of. When it came time to apply to jobs after school, my husband explained the situation to jobs and offered to submit that letter if they wanted it as a reference since that supervisor obviously wasn't able to be contacted. He also included supervisors from internships and other references from that same job, but there was no one who had as much information about him as an employee as that particular supervisor. Several places took him up on it.

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

I do not believe he is without any method of contact. It is hard this day in age to not have a phone, and to own a business without one would be even stranger. I advise contacting the manager to figure out how to reach him

Furthermore there are creative ways to get vet experience. I have volunteered with lab mice, shadowed a porpoise nectopsy, worked on pathology lab all under veterinarians but none in a clinic (by the by, working in a lab is where all the $$ is at)

 

[labrat9]

I would still use him as a reference unless you are required to submit a letter from a current practicing veterinarian. He was a licensed vet when you acquired the experience under him, so I see no reason that would be any different than another vet who isn't retired.

Even if an admissions office requires a practicing vet letter, you can always contact admissions offices and explain the situation. They may allow the letter anyway even if he's retired.

And, it sounds awful to think of but... If you think he may pass away before you apply again, you might ask for a copy of the letter to keep, even several copies in sealed/signed envelopes. I can't remember if VMCAS had the opportunity to upload items, but you might be able to include it, snail mail style or as an upload, as supplemental material with your application.

I bring this up because my husband's supervisor from his ONLY previous job died suddenly after my husband went back to school for a new career. Before he died, this supervisor had provided my husband with a letter of recommendation that my husband had a copy of. When it came time to apply to jobs after school, my husband explained the situation to jobs and offered to submit that letter if they wanted it as a reference since that supervisor obviously wasn't able to be contacted. He also included supervisors from internships and other references from that same job, but there was no one who had as much information about him as an employee as that particular supervisor. Several places took him up on it.

Most schools will not accept this, and I wouldn't take that chance. I recommend Interfolio. It is a third party dossier service that your recommender will upload their letter to, and they will forward it to schools at your direction. You will not be able to see or edit the letter.

I called a school about a late application, the first admissions representative said my advisors could email the letters or send them by mail. I called back to double check and spoke to a different representative, she told me that those options were not acceptable as you could easily fake both of them. I was told to use interfolio.

They will also store your letters for later cycles (a friend of mine knew he was going to do a post-bacc program but got LORs before he left undergrad so his recommenders would still be fresh rather than going back to them to ask for a letter a year or two later. They submitted the letters on interfolio where they were stored for a year before my friend applied to medical school the following cycle.)

 

[SkiOtter]

Most schools will not accept this, and I wouldn't take that chance. I recommend Interfolio. It is a third party dossier service that your recommender will upload their letter to, and they will forward it to schools at your direction. You will not be able to see or edit the letter.

I called a school about a late application, the first admissions representative said my advisors could email the letters or send them by mail. I called back to double check and spoke to a different representative, she told me that those options were not acceptable as you could easily fake both of them. I was told to use interfolio.

They will also store your letters for later cycles (a friend of mine knew he was going to do a post-bacc program but got LORs before he left undergrad so his recommenders would still be fresh rather than going back to them to ask for a letter a year or two later. They submitted the letters on interfolio where they were stored for a year before my friend applied to medical school the following cycle.)

Not entirely sure that system would work with vmcas though unless the schools were willing to make an exception but I feel like you’d have a harder time getting that to happen

 

[labrat9]

Not entirely sure that system would work with vmcas though unless the schools were willing to make an exception but I feel like you’d have a harder time getting that to happen

Interfolio will deliver the stored letters to central application services such a VMCAS or AACOMAS/AMCAS for med students if you request it, I think it's like $5. OP could also call the schools to see if they would accept them from interfolio directly as you stated, which is free.

Obviously getting the letter onto VMCAS directly next cycle is the most ideal, but OP is concerned about being able to get into contact with the evaluator when the next cycle opens. If this guy is going to be unreachable (it happens, happened to me: I couldn't get in touch with an evaluator when I asked to re-upload a letter, just like this situation) it may be worthwhile to get it stored securely before this doc retires.

Either way, good luck OP, fingers crossed that you'll get in off a waitlist and this situation becomes trivial, and good wishes to your evaluator's health.

 

[SkiOtter]

Interfolio will deliver the stored letters to central application services such a VMCAS or AACOMAS/AMCAS for med students if you request it, I think it's like $5. OP could also call the schools to see if they would accept them from interfolio directly as you stated, which is free.

Evaluators also have to fill out a little evaluation survey thing where they rate you in a few different categories when they submit it. They wouldn’t have this if you stored it with a letter storage service, no? And I’m pretty sure vmcas wants them all submitted online and by the letter writer. I don’t think they even advertise an address to mail them in like AMCAS does.

 

[labrat9]

Evaluators also have to fill out a little evaluation survey thing where they rate you in a few different categories when they submit it. They wouldn’t have this if you stored it with a letter storage service, no? And I’m pretty sure vmcas wants them all submitted online and by the letter writer. I don’t think they even advertise an address to mail them in like AMCAS does.

Huh I was unaware of a survey that was required by VMCAS. I have not been an evaluator, and mine (one of which I see daily) never mentioned anything about a survey. I could see where that causes a problem. VMCAS has a customer support line and could clarify this issue.

Just trying to offer solutions for the OPs situation. If storing the letter through a third party program (which is good enough for medical schools) isn't acceptable in this circumstance and is exhausted, OP may just have to find a new evaluator. Tough luck, but as covered earlier in this thread isn't impossible in this timeframe.

 

[britzen]

Most schools will not accept this, and I wouldn't take that chance.

I don't think they would either... I meant it might be possible to include is as a piece of supplemental application material, rather than one of the main letters of rec.

Basically, OP gets a letter from a current vet who doesn't know them as well for the VMCAS LOR, and then ask schools if they would accept an additional, non-VMCAS letter, as a piece of additional material that speaks to their application. Not sure any vet school would let somebody do that, but the worst they could tell OP is "no."

 

[staff_wielder]

Huh I was unaware of a survey that was required by VMCAS. I have not been an evaluator, and mine (one of which I see daily) never mentioned anything about a survey. I could see where that causes a problem. VMCAS has a customer support line and could clarify this issue.

Just trying to offer solutions for the OPs situation. If storing the letter through a third party program (which is good enough for medical schools) isn't acceptable in this circumstance and is exhausted, OP may just have to find a new evaluator. Tough luck, but as covered earlier in this thread isn't impossible in this timeframe.

Chiming in because I like a lot of what you have to say @labrat9 — I used Interfolio several years ago when I was on the med school track and it was great and would have used it again, but Skiister is correct and I can confirm — there is a little survey/rating portion of the “evaluation” that your evaluators have to fill out. I first found out about it because VMCAS let’s you print out a template or instruction packet for you in case you need to help your evaluators along (and where you get to see the questions/ratings that are asked during the instructional step by step). It is tough luck as evaluators have to fill out the evaluation and upload manually each cycle themselves.

 

[Chubbster]

Just wanted to pop in and say thank you all for the advice. I’ll definitely take them into consideration!

(I don’t check SDN that often 😛 )

 

[Old-Country-Vet-Tech]

So I had this happen. My first vet I worked under 10 years ago died of bone cancer last year. The other vet I worked under doesn't remember half the folks who worked there. However that being said I would ask him to still write a letter, he still has his DVM and you still worked under him. One of my letters is from a vet that I did shots for on an SPCA low cost bus...it had to be hand typed by another person.

If hes still alive do it now. Get it and make sure someone can hold onto it and email it for you. My vet mentor closed the practice we had but re-opened another and she sent hers from her home address.

 

[SkiOtter]

If hes still alive do it now. Get it and make sure someone can hold onto it and email it for you.

still not sure this would work with vmcas because of the evaluation portion and also schools don't know if someone else changed it at all. it definitely wouldn't hurt to have, but I don't know if schools would count it as your required vet letter if it was submitted by someone else because of unfortunate circumstances, simply because they wouldn't be able to verify the validity of the letter. sure, it'd be a great extra letter to submit, but I wouldn't rely on it as the only vet letter.