Dip in undergrad GPA- Should I even bother?

[peyifi]

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I've taken a recent interest in MSTPs. However, I'm not sure I'll make it, and if I should pursue another field altogether.The reason why is because of a dip in my GPA. The dip is huge, I might add, and I'm wondering how badly that will affect my chances of getting into an MSTP.

freshman- 3.87
sophmore- 3.79

Then I did something incredibly stupid and transferred to a school that I ended up not mixing well with at all*.
junior- 2.9

After a year and a half of that, I transferred back and ended up repeating 6 courses (all intro level, by the way), setting me back a whole year.
senior- 3.75

AMCAS GPA: 3.53
AMCAS BCPM: 3.3

I'm thinking of doing a post bacc. For that reason, I haven't taken my MCAT yet. I don't know if that GPA is even good enough for medical school. I am incredibly disappointed. If all goes as planned, it will take me an additional four years to make up for that 2.9.

Even then, my amcas GPA, at its very best, can only hit as high as a 3.60. I guess my biggest qualm about it is that by the time that happens, I'll be 28 years old. MSTPs are 7-8 years long, and that doesn't even count residency. I feel like I won't be a free woman until I'm 40+. By the way, what's the average age of matriculated students in these programs?

I feel like I'm gambling here, and the risk is time on a scale of decades. Should I just give up? 🙁 What are your opinions?
Any feedback is appreciated.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I've taken a recent interest in MSTPs. However, I'm not sure I'll make it, and if I should pursue another field altogether.The reason why is because of a dip in my GPA. The dip is huge, I might add, and I'm wondering how badly that will affect my chances of getting into an MSTP.

freshman- 3.87
sophmore- 3.79

Then I did something incredibly stupid and transferred to a school that I ended up not mixing well with at all*.
junior- 2.9

After a year and a half of that, I transferred back and ended up repeating 6 courses (all intro level, by the way), setting me back a whole year.
senior- 3.75

AMCAS GPA: 3.53
AMCAS BCPM: 3.3

I'm thinking of doing a post bacc. For that reason, I haven't taken my MCAT yet. I don't know if that GPA is even good enough for medical school. I am incredibly disappointed. If all goes as planned, it will take me an additional four years to make up for that 2.9.

Even then, my amcas GPA, at its very best, can only hit as high as a 3.60. I guess my biggest qualm about it is that by the time that happens, I'll be 28 years old. MSTPs are 7-8 years long, and that doesn't even count residency. I feel like I won't be a free woman until I'm 40+. By the way, what's the average age of matriculated students in these programs?

I feel like I'm gambling here, and the risk is time on a scale of decades. Should I just give up? 🙁 What are your opinions?
Any feedback is appreciated.

Unless much has changed since I applied, I think this is salvageable. The BCPM GPA is more concerning than the overall. 3.5 is OK and should get you into a program, provided everything else is good.

The key at this stage may be the MCAT. You'll likely need a 40s-range score and to apply broadly. I think you'd have a shot at mid-lower tier MSTP programs with a 40+ score, your current GPA, and excellent research/recommendations.

 

[peyifi]

Okay, I guess I will aim for a 40+ on the MCAT then (wouldn't hurt to try, right?). Thank you!!

 

[Gnomes]

40 to one sig fig maybe... I would think high thirties would be fine too.

That bad year looks like a clear anomaly. Make sure you have a convincing and concise explanation for it in your application, and explain why it won't happen again even if you don't fit in well in medical school.

I got in with a bad semester (albeit not quite as bad as that, as I didn't actually fail any classes) and it was my last semester, with no opportunity to demonstrate that I'd improved since then... you at least did fine in your senior year.

 

[Neuronix]

Then I did something incredibly stupid and transferred to a school that I ended up not mixing well with at all*.
junior- 2.9

I need more information about this, as will adcoms. I'm thinking, if you moved to another school and everything went poorly, what happens when you move for medical school? Then you will likely move again for residency. During both of these changes you may have little control as to where you end up. Are you going to be able to handle it?

I'm thinking of doing a post bacc. For that reason, I haven't taken my MCAT yet. I don't know if that GPA is even good enough for medical school. I am incredibly disappointed. If all goes as planned, it will take me an additional four years to make up for that 2.9.

As I repeatedly write about, post-baccs are expensive and I only recommend them to people who don't have the pre-med requirements. Post-bacc linkage programs are for MD. If you want to take more classes, take them as an undergrad "super senior" if allowed and get more research experience.

As for "I don't know if that GPA is even good enough for medical school", you should do your research before posting.

For MD: https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/
For MD/PhD: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=539268

There is a dataset currently active in the forum put together by one of our users, but due to quality issues with the data I am currently not recommending its use.

Even then, my amcas GPA, at its very best, can only hit as high as a 3.60. I guess my biggest qualm about it is that by the time that happens, I'll be 28 years old. MSTPs are 7-8 years long, and that doesn't even count residency. I feel like I won't be a free woman until I'm 40+.

You're never "free" as a physician-scientist who does basic science research. It's all struggle and hard work. If you're ok with this for the rest of your life, then the age you start at doesn't matter as much.

By the way, what's the average age of matriculated students in these programs?

I don't have firm data. I'd have to guess about 23-24. From an admissions perspective nobody is going to care that you're 28. 30+ might make some people think twice.

I feel like I'm gambling here, and the risk is time on a scale of decades. Should I just give up? 🙁 What are your opinions? Any feedback is appreciated.

Give up on what? I have little sense of why you're even doing MD/PhD.

 

[peyifi]

40 to one sig fig maybe... I would think high thirties would be fine too.

That bad year looks like a clear anomaly. Make sure you have a convincing and concise explanation for it in your application, and explain why it won't happen again even if you don't fit in well in medical school.

I got in with a bad semester (albeit not quite as bad as that, as I didn't actually fail any classes) and it was my last semester, with no opportunity to demonstrate that I'd improved since then... you at least did fine in your senior year.

Thank you for the heads-up/advice. I will be sure to fully explain myself in my app. Much appreciated, and congratulations on getting in!

 

[Neuronix]

Thank you for the heads-up/advice. I will be sure to fully explain myself in my app. Much appreciated, and congratulations on getting in!

Depending on the circumstances I'm not sure what I'd explain on the app and what I wouldn't. I generally tell people not to point out their flaws.

 

[peyifi]

I need more information about this, as will adcoms. I'm thinking, if you moved to another school and everything went poorly, what happens when you move for medical school? Then you will likely move again for residency. During both of these changes you may have little control as to where you end up. Are you going to be able to handle it?

I worry about this, as well, and there were many factors that contributed to my poor performance that year. Since I'm taking a gap year, I am thinking of doing some courses post-bacc at various schools to see how my study and time management skills will fare. My hope is that this will quell any doubts over my ability to handle different programs.

As I repeatedly write about, post-baccs are expensive and I only recommend them to people who don't have the pre-med requirements. Post-bacc linkage programs are for MD. If you want to take more classes, take them as an undergrad "super senior" if allowed and get more research experience.

As for "I don't know if that GPA is even good enough for medical school", you should do your research before posting.

For MD: https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/
For MD/PhD: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=539268

There is a dataset currently active in the forum put together by one of our users, but due to quality issues with the data I am currently not recommending its use.

Yeah, I was under the impression that a 3.6 was on the lower side of MD school averages (for matriculants). But thanks for that! I actually just took a look at it a couple days ago as well!

You're never "free" as a physician-scientist who does basic science research. It's all struggle and hard work. If you're ok with this for the rest of your life, then the age you start at doesn't matter as much.

I don't have firm data. I'd have to guess about 23-24. From an admissions perspective nobody is going to care that you're 28. 30+ might make some people think twice.

That's good to know. I'm glad, thanks.
As for the struggling, I've thought about that long and hard and decided it wasn't a deterrent.

Give up on what? I have little sense of why you're even doing MD/PhD.

It's really a simple answer at the moment. I want to do research that relates to people (finding cures and treatments) and believe that an MD framework would really help in this type of research. However, I don't know if I should give up pursuing an md/phd* due to my below average GPA and etc., would I even have a shot? Should I invest an extra 4 years to prepare? So here I am, on SDN, to get help in my analysis of the situation to better make life decisions.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback! I appreciate it more than you know. 🙂

 

[peyifi]

Depending on the circumstances I'm not sure what I'd explain on the app and what I wouldn't. I generally tell people not to point out their flaws.

I was hoping that by pointing out my flaws and writing about how I overcame them effectively, I'd be able to null it somehow...

 

[Neuronix]

I was hoping that by pointing out my flaws and writing about how I overcame them effectively, I'd be able to null it somehow...

Nullifying it isn't going to happen. The question is going to be whether the circumstances were temporary and will not happen again. Thus you have to be very careful how you discuss this. You can PM me if you would like to be more explicit in private.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Before doing all this extra coursework (unless you actually are still in undergraduate school, in which case it may be easier to extend a year and take more coursework), I would just prepare for the MCAT, kill it, and apply as is. You never know. Some of the lower ranked MD/PhD programs might accept you.

I'm not trying to give you false hope, but I'm all in favor of giving it a shot now and if it doesn't work out you can then decide if you want to devote another 2-3 years to improving your application and reapplying, or go with something else like graduate school.

But first you need to take the MCAT and ace it.

 

[peyifi]

Nullifying it isn't going to happen. The question is going to be whether the circumstances were temporary and will not happen again. Thus you have to be very careful how you discuss this. You can PM me if you would like to be more explicit in private.

I see, that's great to know. It will not happen again, and I will stress that in the apps.* Thank you for your help!! 🙂

 

[peyifi]

Before doing all this extra coursework (unless you actually are still in undergraduate school, in which case it may be easier to extend a year and take more coursework), I would just prepare for the MCAT, kill it, and apply as is. You never know. Some of the lower ranked MD/PhD programs might accept you.

I'm not trying to give you false hope, but I'm all in favor of giving it a shot now and if it doesn't work out you can then decide if you want to devote another 2-3 years to improving your application and reapplying, or go with something else like graduate school.

But first you need to take the MCAT and ace it.

I will be sure to take the MCAT soon!* 🙂