diploid cell

[rebma]

in destroyer # 158 it states that a haploid egg has 23 chromosomes and 23 chromatids, does a diploid cell have 46 chromosomes with 92 chromatids?

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[rebma]

just wanted to clarify this...

 

[Mstoothlady2012]

in destroyer # 158 it states that a haploid egg has 23 chromosomes and 23 chromatids, does a diploid cell have 46 chromosomes with 92 chromatids?

depends on which stage you are at. If you are in interphase where synthesis hasn't occurred yet chromosomes and chromatids both would be 46.

 

[wkawk2416]

diploid cell then woudl have 23 chromosomes and 46 chromatids.

 

[osimsDDS]

depends on which stage you are at. If you are in interphase where synthesis hasn't occurred yet chromosomes and chromatids both would be 46.

haha yea it really does depend what stage and what cycle your looking at (meiosis vs mitosis), if you know the cycles pretty well and what happens in each you will be able to understand the difference between chromosomes and chromatids...

 

[rebma]

how about at the end of mitosis?

 

[wkawk2416]

is it possible to have 46 chromosomes from haploid that has 23 chromosomes?

 

[Mstoothlady2012]

how about at the end of mitosis?

in mitosis you go from 2N --> 2N

you started with 46 chromosomes & 46 chromatids and you will end up with 46 chromosomes & 46 chromatids. What matters is what goes on in between.

G1 - 46, 46
S - 46,92
G2 - 46, 92
Prophase - 46 , 92
metaphase - 46 , 92
anaphase - 46, 92
telophase (after cytokenesis) - 46 , 46

 

[Mstoothlady2012]

is it possible to have 46 chromosomes from haploid that has 23 chromosomes?

Yes when fertilization occurs of 2 haploid gametes

 

[rebma]

in mitosis you go from 2N --> 2N

you started with 46 chromosomes & 46 chromatids and you will end up with 46 chromosomes & 46 chromatids. What matters is what goes on in between.

G1 - 46, 46
S - 46,92
G2 - 46, 92
Prophase - 46 , 92
metaphase - 46 , 92
anaphase - 46, 92
telophase (after cytokenesis) - 46 , 46

oh ok so throughout the cell cycle only the number of chromatids are changing. as for meiosis, the chromosomes are reduced because you are going from 2N to N.. thanks it is a lot clearer now!

 

[Mstoothlady2012]

Have a pic of meiosis & mitosis division from your bio book while you are doing these type of problems. Follow it step by step and try to answer the question, then you will be able to understand it better!

 

[osimsDDS]

in mitosis you go from 2N --> 2N

you started with 46 chromosomes & 46 chromatids and you will end up with 46 chromosomes & 46 chromatids. What matters is what goes on in between.

G1 - 46, 46
S - 46,92
G2 - 46, 92
Prophase - 46 , 92
metaphase - 46 , 92
anaphase - 46, 92
telophase (after cytokenesis) - 46 , 46

hey i think you have ANAPHASE wrong, its supposed to be 92 chromosomes and 92 chromatids (the 2 chromatids are split into 2 pairs that are on opposite poles and each are 1 chromosome)...because they split in this phase you get 1 strand instead of the 2 stranded...so since its single stranded you would get 1 cell with 92 chromosomes (they are on different poles of the cell but its still considered 1 cell) at telophase then you get 2 cells with 46 chromosomes each...

 

[Mstoothlady2012]

hey i think you have ANAPHASE wrong, its supposed to be 92 chromosomes and 92 chromatids (the 2 chromatids are split into 2 pairs that are on opposite poles and each are 1 chromosome)...because they split in this phase you get 1 strand instead of the 2 stranded...so since its single stranded you would get 1 cell with 92 chromosomes (they are on different poles of the cell but its still considered 1 cell) at telophase then you get 2 cells with 46 chromosomes each...

nice catch!! yea sry my bad...anaphase is always tricky lol

 

[osimsDDS]

nice catch!! yea sry my bad...anaphase is always tricky lol

haha yea indeed it is, cuz I always forget we still have 1 cell haha

 

[flycd05]

in mitosis you go from 2N --> 2N

you started with 46 chromosomes & 46 chromatids and you will end up with 46 chromosomes & 46 chromatids. What matters is what goes on in between.

G1 - 46, 46
S - 46,92
G2 - 46, 92
Prophase - 46 , 92
metaphase - 46 , 92
anaphase - 46, 92
telophase (after cytokenesis) - 46 , 46

wow this helped me understand it better! thanks,

but im trying to the meiosis version of this set up and can't seem to do it right:

g1 phase - 23 chromosomes, 23 chromatids
s phase - 23 chromosomes, 46 chromatids (each chromosome is an "X" with 2 sister chromatids so essentially 23 pairs are made)
g2 phase - 23, 46
prophase - Tetrads are formed but my numbers are not right. Can you fill the in rest ( i know the 23rd pair is the sex pair (xx or xy) so that leaves u with 22 pairs) but i cant figure out chromosome/chromatid numbers for the rest of the phases

thanks

 

[Mstoothlady2012]

wow this helped me understand it better! thanks,

but im trying to the meiosis version of this set up and can't seem to do it right:

g1 phase - 23 chromosomes, 23 chromatids
s phase - 23 chromosomes, 46 chromatids (each chromosome is an "X" with 2 sister chromatids so essentially 23 pairs are made)
g2 phase - 23, 46
prophase - Tetrads are formed but my numbers are not right. Can you fill the in rest ( i know the 23rd pair is the sex pair (xx or xy) so that leaves u with 22 pairs) but i cant figure out chromosome/chromatid numbers for the rest of the phases

thanks

In order to undergo meiosis, a cell has to be diploid*** so lets look at the prior example 2N = 46. Now try to solve it and make sure you go through Meiosis I & Meiosis II. Post your answers, so I can comment!

 

[flycd05]

In order to undergo meiosis, a cell has to be diploid*** so lets look at the prior example 2N = 46. Now try to solve it and make sure you go through Meiosis I & Meiosis II. Post your answers, so I can comment!

wait i think im even more confused now haha. i thought that gametes are made through meiosis? i understand that gametes are haploid so then once a haploid sperm and egg combine then there will be 46 chromosomes making it diploid right so then the egg(which was arrested in prophase 1 of meiosis) can now complete meiosis right?

but if you wanna make ONLY 4 sperm then is this how it's done?:

g1 phase - 23 chromosomes (single stranded), 23 chromatids
s phase - replication - 23 chromosomes, 46 chromatids (chromosomes look like an X and have 2 sister chromatids)
g2 phase - 23, 46

Meiosis 1
prophase 1 - tetrads form so essentially you have 2 chromosomes joined together (which looks like homologous pair XX) but the 23rd chromosome pair is the sex pair so if you subtract that then you have 22 X's to make tetrads which results in 11 tetrads with a regular X looking 23rd chromsome...this is STILL in total 46 chromatids
metaphase 1- 11 tetrads line up
anaphase 1 - 11 homologous pairs split apart so u have 11 chrosomes on 1 side and 11 chromosomes on the other side (cell total is still 23 chromosomes and 46 chromatids)
telophase and cytokinesis - cell divides into 2 so each cell now has 11 chromsomes BUT where does does the 23rd chromsome go???? crap i think i messed up.

meosis 2 - same way has mitosis but 2 cells each divide to make a total of 4 cells/sperm.

ok im not gonna do meiosis 2 cuz i think my math is completely off. im really confused now so mstoothlady if u can help me out, i'd really appreciate it! thankssss 🙂

 

[Mstoothlady2012]

okay i tried to read yours but its wayyy too confusing. Yes gametes are haploid, but originally they derive from diploid cell (XX or XY). So you have to start with diploid number, 23 is not a diploid number. Diploid hast o be even ofcourse (2N). Remember Meiosis results in 4 daughter cells! So lets start with 46 chromosomes.

g1 - 46, 46
s - 46, 92
g2 - 46, 92

Meiosis 1 (2N --> N)

prophase - 46, 92
metaphase - 46, 92
anaphase - 46, 92 <--- the tetrade separate but the chromatids are still attached, also cell division hasn't happened yet so even though chromosomes are pulled apart, they are technically still in 1 cell
telophase (after cytokensis) - 23, 46

Meiosis 2 (N --> N)

prophase - 23,46
metaphase - 23,46
anaphase - 46,46 <--- chromatids are separated and now each separate chromatid is called chromosome.
telophase (after cytokenisis) - 23, 23

 

[flycd05]

okay i tried to read yours but its wayyy too confusing. Yes gametes are haploid, but originally they derive from diploid cell (XX or XY). So you have to start with diploid number, 23 is not a diploid number. Diploid hast o be even ofcourse (2N). Remember Meiosis results in 4 daughter cells! So lets start with 46 chromosomes.

g1 - 46, 46
s - 46, 92
g2 - 46, 92

Meiosis 1 (2N --> N)

prophase - 46, 92
metaphase - 46, 92
anaphase - 46, 92 <--- the tetrade separate but the chromatids are still attached, also cell division hasn't happened yet so even though chromosomes are pulled apart, they are technically still in 1 cell
telophase (after cytokensis) - 23, 46

Meiosis 2 (N --> N)

prophase - 23,46
metaphase - 23,46
anaphase - 46,46 <--- chromatids are separated and now each separate chromatid is called chromosome.
telophase (after cytokenisis) - 23, 23

wow this makes a lot more sense, thanks! i realized where i was going wrong - i didnt realize that gametes are made from diploid cells - i thought they were made directly from other gametes which doenst sound logical when u go back and think about it lol so thanks a lot!!!