Disability Insurance - MetLife Versus Guardian

[PhiAlpha]

Hi All,
I'm sealing up disability insurance and would like your input. I have been approved for Guardian and MetLife. Both plans have ability to increase coverage each year, both have the same amount of coverage 60k, both are own occupation, both have residual disability, and both have COLA.

The big difference is that Guardian is significantly more expensive. The contracts look identical to me with a few very minor exceptions (some in Guardian's favor and some in MetLife's favor).

The Guardian agent is harping on the fact that Guardian has a 2 year look back for preexisting conditions versus 5 with MetLife. In not so many words, I believe he is trying to tell me that you pay more for Guardian because if you actually get disabled, you get paid out versus with MetLife, they'll look for any reason to deny your claim.

Is MetLife a worse contract? Is it worth paying the substantially larger amount for Guardian?

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[Eyefixer]

You are getting $60,000/m0nth coverage? Am I reading this right? Or is this $60,000 per year?

I am in the same boat but choosing between Guardian and Standard. Standard is significantly cheaper. Both have no limit mental disability clause. My agent did not mention anything about "look back" when filing a claim. Is this a real thing?

 

[LBKCLU]

The Guardian agent is harping on the fact that Guardian has a 2 year look back for preexisting conditions versus 5 with MetLife. In not so many words, I believe he is trying to tell me that you pay more for Guardian because if you actually get disabled, you get paid out versus with MetLife, they'll look for any reason to deny your claim.

What is your agent talking about?

MetLife's policy states the following:

"After two years from the Effective Date of this policy, or of any policy change or reinstatement, no misstatements, except for fraudulent misstatements, made by You on the Application can be used to void this policy or such policy change or reinstatement, or to deny a claim under this policy or the policy change or reinstatement, for a Disability starting after the end of such two-year period.

No claim for Disability starting after two years from the Effective Date of this policy, or of any policy change or reinstatement, will be reduced or denied on the grounds that a Sickness or physical condition had existed, but not manifested itself, before the Effective Date of this policy, or of such policy change or reinstatement, unless, on the date the Disability starts, that Sickness or physical condition was excluded from coverage by name or specific description".

Guardian's policy states the following:

"The Policy will be incontestable as to the statements, except fraudulent statements, contained in the application after it has been in force for a period of two years during Your lifetime, excluding any period during which You are Disabled. No claim for a loss incurred or Disability that begins after two years from the Effective Date, excluding any period during which You are Disabled, will be reduced or denied because a sickness or physical condition existed prior to the Effective Date. This assumes that such sickness or physical condition was not excluded from Coverage by name or description.

In the event of a reinstatement, the Policy will be incontestable as to statements made by You, except fraudulent statements, contained in the application for reinstatement of the Policy after it has been in force for a period of two years following the date the Policy was reinstated, excluding any period during which You are Disabled".

While there may be reasons to potentially purchase Guardian's policy, what you have been told regarding the "look back" (contestable) period is most likely not accurate (although the language can vary by state).

Could you possibly be confusing what the agent said with the Waiver of Elimination Period provision which is unique to Guardian?

 

[Oldtimedoc]

I am a physician who needed to retire due to a medical disability. I have dealt with three companies-Mass Mutual,Assurant, and Metropolitan. Mass Mutual is really easy to deal with and has given me no problems. Assurant is OK requiring lots of documentation along the way. I immediately had problems with Metropolitan. We ended up in court and they ended up paying me a lump sum settlement. They even sued my insurance agent for the commission he made on the policy. While I realize this is only a sample size of one,but based on my experiences I would never buy a Metropolitan policy. I really like Mass Mutual.

 

[PhiAlpha]

LBKCLU, the guardian agent told me in referring to the met life policy...

"I would be most concerned with a contract that allows a company to go back up to 5 years to dig up medical records and ability to contest a claim due to perceived pre- existing conditions and or course of recommended treatment and or other issues that may have occurred back then- may not seem like a big deal until you file a claim- it s there for a reason and no other company including Guardian does this ( we have the standard 2 year contestable period)"

the met life policy i was offered says -

Pre-Existing Conditions Exclusion (could vary by state) For the first two years of coverage, we do not Ccover disabilities caused by sickness or injury for which, in the 5 years prior to the effective date, or the effective date of any policy change or reinstatement:

• Medical advice or treatment or care was contemplated, or was recommended by or received from a physician; or

• Symptoms existed that would cause an ordinarily prudent person to seek diagnosis, care or treatment.

This exclusion does not apply to any condition that was disclosed, and that was not misrepresented in the application and was not excluded by name or specific description.

Time Limit on Certain Defenses (could vary by state) After 2 years from the effective date of the policy or of any policy change or reinstatement, no misstatements, except for fraudulent misstatements made by you on the application or on the application for policy change or reinstatement, can be used to void the policy or such policy change or reinstatement, or to deny a claim under the policy or the policy change or reinstatement for a disability starting after the end of such 2-year period.

No claim for disability starting after 2 years from the effective date of the policy, or of any policy change or reinstatement, shall be reduced or denied on the grounds that a sickness or physical condition had existed, but not manifested itself, before the effective date of the policy, or of such policy change or reinstatement, unless on the date the disability starts, that sickness or physical condition was excluded from coverage by name or specific description.

the metlife agent responded Yes, guardian has the 5 year no look back which is the one thing the metlife contract does not have. They both have incontestability clause so that is a moot point.

This is the only reason that I'm still considering guardian. Otherwise, the policies are essentially identical except for a few minor things some which go met's way some which go guardian's way. However, none of these minor points make up for the fact that the guardian contract is 20k more expensive from a present value perspective.

In not so many words, the guardian agent is telling me that the metlife policy is worthless because they will find a reason not to pay you when you actually need it.

What do you all think?

 

[Oldtimedoc]

From my own experience Metropolitan will do anything possible to avoid paying you, even taking you to court. While I did exact a good settlement from Metropolitan legal costs diminished the return. My advice to you from my experience would be to stay far away from Metropolitan.

 

[Eyefixer]

Does anyone have any experience with Standard? Is this a an acceptable company to deal with?

 

[DrZeke]

I'm with mass mutual.

 

[DrZeke]

I had a lot of visits to PT for gym related tendonitis and even a few MRI. Still got own occ.

 

[Oldtimedoc]

From my own experience with my claim I couldn't imagine a better insurance company than Mass Mutual.

 

[MD Financial Services Scott]

I have had clients with claims on all of the above mentioned carriers....some are certainly easier to deal with than others and in addition some carriers have come, gone, and are now back in the disability business...that makes a difference. It is hard to understand why some carriers are so concentrated in a premium space and then 1 standout is 30% cheaper, it just does not make sense. If you are willing to 'roll the dice' and see where it lands then go ahead, if you don't have a claim then fantastic it worked out, if you have a claim, well maybe it works out. There are some really fine carriers out there with Guardian, Principal, Ameritas, Standard, Mass being some of my favorites to work with at claim time. Let me know if we can help out.

 

[MarkFinancialAdvisor]

Hi All,
I'm sealing up disability insurance and would like your input. I have been approved for Guardian and MetLife. Both plans have ability to increase coverage each year, both have the same amount of coverage 60k, both are own occupation, both have residual disability, and both have COLA.

The big difference is that Guardian is significantly more expensive. The contracts look identical to me with a few very minor exceptions (some in Guardian's favor and some in MetLife's favor).

The Guardian agent is harping on the fact that Guardian has a 2 year look back for preexisting conditions versus 5 with MetLife. In not so many words, I believe he is trying to tell me that you pay more for Guardian because if you actually get disabled, you get paid out versus with MetLife, they'll look for any reason to deny your claim.

Is MetLife a worse contract? Is it worth paying the substantially larger amount for Guardian?

I do not think the 2 year "look back" versus the 5 year "look back" is an important issue when choosing between Guardian and MetLife. All insurance companies have a "two year incontestability period". This clause precludes insurance carriers from inquiring into the representations you made on the policy application if the two-year incontestable period has lapsed. In essence, the clause gives insurers a two-year time limit to review policy applications. If the insurance company makes no inquiry in those two years, they lose the ability to rescind the policy based on the accuracy of your representations in the policy application’s paperwork. Feel free to contact me if you have any more questions.

 

[MarkFinancialAdvisor]

Does anyone have any experience with Standard? Is this a an acceptable company to deal with?

Yes, Standard is an excellent company. Many of my physician clients have their disability insurance with Standard. In many cases, Principal and MetLife offer similar policies at reduced premiums because of discounts that they offer. We like to compare rates from Principal, Standard, MetLife, Guardian and Ameritas for our clients. Feel free to contact me if I can be of any help.

 

[PBEA]

Anybody use Northwest mutual?

 

[MarkFinancialAdvisor]

I prefer Principal, Standard and MetLife for my physician clients.

 

[PBEA]

I prefer Principal, Standard and MetLife for my physician clients.

may I ask why you prefer those over Northwest?

 

[MarkFinancialAdvisor]

may I ask why you prefer those over Northwest?

Northwestern has a two year limitation on disabilities caused by mental nervous disorders or substance abuse. Standard and MetLife do not have this two year limitation for mental nervous disorders or substance abuse. Also, in many cases the premiums for Standard, MetLife and Principal are significantly lower. Northwestern has a product called Annual Renewable DI (ARDI) that starts with a low premium, but the rate goes up every year. The premiums with Standard, Metlife and Principal are guaranteed to never increase. You lock in the premium at your current age, and it stays at that premium until you reach age 65.
I would be glad to prepare a cost and benefit comparison for you for Standard, MetLife and Principal. If you have a policy with Northwestern, or a quote from them I will also compare these three companies with Northwestern.

 

[PBEA]

Northwestern has a two year limitation on disabilities caused by mental nervous disorders or substance abuse. Standard and MetLife do not have this two year limitation for mental nervous disorders or substance abuse. Also, in many cases the premiums for Standard, MetLife and Principal are significantly lower. Northwestern has a product called Annual Renewable DI (ARDI) that starts with a low premium, but the rate goes up every year. The premiums with Standard, Metlife and Principal are guaranteed to never increase. You lock in the premium at your current age, and it stays at that premium until you reach age 65.
I would be glad to prepare a cost and benefit comparison for you for Standard, MetLife and Principal. If you have a policy with Northwestern, or a quote from them I will also compare these three companies with Northwestern.

thank you for your reply