Disability Insurance

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Who did you choose for disability insurance?

  • Principal

    Votes: 9 31.0%
  • Guardian

    Votes: 8 27.6%
  • MetLife

    Votes: 6 20.7%
  • MassMutual

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Standard

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 2 6.9%

  • Total voters
    29
D

deleted547339

Hey everybody. I'm looking at disability insurance policies. I've read everything I can find online (thanks @The White Coat Investor!!!) I was curious who you use. Feel free to leave any opinions/reasons you picked one company over the other or any tips. Thanks in advance!

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Hey everybody. I'm looking at disability insurance policies. I've read everything I can find online (thanks @The White Coat Investor!!!) I was curious who you use. Feel free to leave any opinions/reasons you picked one company over the other or any tips. Thanks in advance!
I'm a resident. I signed up during intern year for a combo of two policies using MetLife and Principal, $4000 with MetLife and $1000 with Principal. Both have automatic increase and option to buy up to ~$30,000 total once done with training without further medical exam. My wife has $5000 policy with Guardian (figured we'd diversify). No issues. All three have auto-draft, so it's truly set it and forget it, until you want to increase your coverage.

There's an agent on WCI I used out of NYS or Jersey. PM me for name if you want it.
 
I have a policy through MetLife as well. It's $3700 annually and pays out $10,000 monthly tax-free in the case of permanent disability. It has automatic increases as well. If you can't live on $10,000/month then there's a problem....
 
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MetLife I got intern year. 5250$ per month pay out till 65 if I become disabled. Does have an increase rider, cola etc. One exclusion which prevents me from increasing my coverage without a medical screening exam when I become an attending. I applied to a few, MetLife gave me the best deal. It's auto deducted from my bank account so again it is really a true set it and forget it.
 
I have a 15k/mo policy with MassMutual with lots of perks for partial disability and variety of other options. It's more expensive but worth the peace of mind to me. I upped it this past year from 10k.
 
12k. Ameritas. 6% COL increase, ability to buy more. Own profession, etc. 4800/yr.
 
Hey everybody. I'm looking at disability insurance policies. I've read everything I can find online (thanks @The White Coat Investor!!!) I was curious who you use. Feel free to leave any opinions/reasons you picked one company over the other or any tips. Thanks in advance!

It depends on who provides the best value for your buck. You can go wrong with most of them. I personally have Principal.

Lawrence Keller is the agent I've used in my last year as a resident. He's treated me well and given me good advice. He's also independent agent.

Phone number is 516-677-6211 or www.physicianfinancialservices.com
 
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I bought Berkshire Guardian. I did buy the COLA rider. I forget what my benefit is. I had a family friend who is in the industry review the policies and did extensive research before deciding on Berkshire. It's expensive, though. I'm hoping I can drop it once we have the mortgage paid (on a house we don't yet own).
 
How are some of you residents getting 10k+ coverage and also affording it? I couldn't get anymore because my salary is what it is right now (a resident salary). Or did you guys just not switch your status to attending?
 
How are some of you residents getting 10k+ coverage and also affording it? I couldn't get anymore because my salary is what it is right now (a resident salary). Or did you guys just not switch your status to attending?

I didn't pursue such a Cadillac plan.
 
I ended up getting a 5k coverage with Berkshire, graded premium, significantly cheaper than the other companies for me. Had all the riders I needed.
 
How are some of you residents getting 10k+ coverage and also affording it? I couldn't get anymore because my salary is what it is right now (a resident salary). Or did you guys just not switch your status to attending?
I don't think you can get more than 5k of monthly coverage as a resident. You can get a future purchase option for when you have attending income to justify the purchase. I also didn't get the COLA since most disabilities are on the shorter side. As the rider costs more, about 25% more in my case, I just bought 25% more upfront coverage. That way you get the payout faster for most disabilities, and if you really think it is going to be a long one you can invest the difference and it should work out to be around the same overall benefit but with more flexibility on your end.
 
I don't think you can get more than 5k of monthly coverage as a resident. You can get a future purchase option for when you have attending income to justify the purchase. I also didn't get the COLA since most disabilities are on the shorter side. As the rider costs more, about 25% more in my case, I just bought 25% more upfront coverage. That way you get the payout faster for most disabilities, and if you really think it is going to be a long one you can invest the difference and it should work out to be around the same overall benefit but with more flexibility on your end.

MetLife now lets you get 6,000, as of just a few weeks ago.
 
Can I add a piggyback question? I'm gathering quotes, and about to pull the trigger with MetLife. They offer a residual disability benefit rider, which gives you additional payout "if a residual disability causes you to lose 15% or more of your earnings." The policy is for same specialty coverage, so I'm not really sure how this would work in the context of EM. I think that EM is kind of all or nothing, and I can't think of too many scenarios where I would lose 15% of my income, while still being able to practice EM. (Part time, I guess, but still somehow with enough function to perform all other tasks while I'm there.) It would save a significant chunk of change to take this part of the policy off, but am I missing something that this would cover for that would make it worth it?

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Can I add a piggyback question? I'm gathering quotes, and about to pull the trigger with MetLife. They offer a residual disability benefit rider, which gives you additional payout "if a residual disability causes you to lose 15% or more of your earnings." The policy is for same specialty coverage, so I'm not really sure how this would work in the context of EM. I think that EM is kind of all or nothing, and I can't think of too many scenarios where I would lose 15% of my income, while still being able to practice EM. (Part time, I guess, but still somehow with enough function to perform all other tasks while I'm there.) It would save a significant chunk of change to take this part of the policy off, but am I missing something that this would cover for that would make it worth it?

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Big RVU component job. Partial disability that slows you down (TBI, some kind of permanent leg problem, I'm sure there are other examples, etc.).

Potentially a physical disability that forces you out of community practice into a teaching role.

Depending on cost, it may or may not be worth it to you. I kept the rider.
 
Can I add a piggyback question? I'm gathering quotes, and about to pull the trigger with MetLife. They offer a residual disability benefit rider, which gives you additional payout "if a residual disability causes you to lose 15% or more of your earnings." The policy is for same specialty coverage, so I'm not really sure how this would work in the context of EM. I think that EM is kind of all or nothing, and I can't think of too many scenarios where I would lose 15% of my income, while still being able to practice EM. (Part time, I guess, but still somehow with enough function to perform all other tasks while I'm there.) It would save a significant chunk of change to take this part of the policy off, but am I missing something that this would cover for that would make it worth it?

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Some sort of painful condition or physical condition that limits the weekly hours you can work. Lets say you get a back injury and go from working 3-4 12h shifts a week to 1-2 8 hour shifts a week.

I'm keeping that rider, but thinking about dropping the COLA.
 
Any thoughts on how long of an elimination period to get? I have been told that longer is better since theoretically you should have enough savings to be self insured for the first month or two.


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Any thoughts on how long of an elimination period to get? I have been told that longer is better since theoretically you should have enough savings to be self insured for the first month or two.


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What I've gathered is that most people opt for 90 days. If you're a doctor you can't float yourself for 90 days, you're doing in wrong.

I'm gonna opt for 180 days. The insurance guy said that 180 is fairly atypical, but I view this as simply insurance against something catastrophic and I like keeping my fixed expenses minimal. I plan to keep 6 month expenses liquid as soon as I'm an attending. If something awful were to happen to me now, I'm sure my family would help out for a few months.
 
MetLife 5k for $160/mo
Just be mindful that MetLife has announced they are ceasing disability insurance operations as of September 1, 2016. What that means is they will no longer take on any new risk. For those that have coverage that is fine, even though I have a question as to their service standards in the future without a department and new clients to keep happy, but be sure to know that where their rate is very appealing today the future purchase options you might have do not have guaranteed price and language for the increase amount. Let me re-state that, you can buy a contract that is locked down in language and price but when one increases that policy the language and price on that increase is subject to whatever price and language they want to provide you for that increased amount. My suggestion is to control everything you can and not leave it up to the carriers 'discretion'!
 
How are some of you residents getting 10k+ coverage and also affording it? I couldn't get anymore because my salary is what it is right now (a resident salary). Or did you guys just not switch your status to attending?


No carrier does actual true Disability benefit of $10k on a resident. There are a lot of things that get put into the contract that can make a contract 'feel bigger' like catastrophic benefit and SSI benefit but to get a straight $10k with no other wrinkles on a resident or fellow salary just does not happen.
 
What I've gathered is that most people opt for 90 days. If you're a doctor you can't float yourself for 90 days, you're doing in wrong.

I'm gonna opt for 180 days. The insurance guy said that 180 is fairly atypical, but I view this as simply insurance against something catastrophic and I like keeping my fixed expenses minimal. I plan to keep 6 month expenses liquid as soon as I'm an attending. If something awful were to happen to me now, I'm sure my family would help out for a few months.

Last I looked, you didn't save much premium going from 90-180 days.

I have a group policy and an individual policy, both with Standard. If I had it all to do over again, I probably would have bought a Principal one. (Actually I'm now told that when I bought it, Standard probably was best for me, so kudos to that agent for getting me the right policy. But if I was buying today, probably Principal.) But what's best for you depends on your gender, state, specialty, health problems, and when you bought it.
 
ACEP offers a very reasonable program through the Hartford. $10K coverage for about $3200/year.

That is true ACEP is inexpensive but the reasons for that are you have to be 'totally' disabled for the waiting period during a 'consecutive' number of days (you choose), that is a Big hurdle to get over vs. 15-20% loss of income to trigger benefits. Their definition is copied here:
ELIMINATION PERIODS:
Benefits begin after you have been totally disabled for 30, 90 or 180 days, depending on the plan you select. The Waiting Period is the number of consecutive days at the beginning of a period of Total Disability which must elapse before benefits are payable.


ACEP also has rate increases at 40, 45, 50, 55, and 60 vs. fixed to age 65.
Are the premiums level?
The premiums are level for five years and will change at the 0 or 5 birthdays (example: age 30, 35, 40, 45).

Finally the biggest issue is their definition of disability, I copied and pasted here:
What is a Total Disability?
A disability that results in a loss of earnings of 80% or more is considered to be a Total Disability. You'll continue to qualify for benefits up to Age 65 (Plan I), or for up to 5 years (Plan II), if you cannot: perform the substantial and material duties of your own regular occupation; are under the care of a licensed physician other than yourself; and, are not gainfully employed in any occupation for which you are or become reasonably suited in terms of education, training or experience.

As I mention to all of my clients, it is easy to blame the carrier and say there is a loop hole but the reality is language makes a difference as that language which may cost more or may cost less are the rules that the carrier must follow at claim time. Don't expect a carrier to pay more than they are obligated to but to be blunt if you are going to buy coverage you need to know how it is going to Behave at claim time otherwise you are just spinning the wheel of luck!
It always amazes me that the associations don't provide a better options for their members but this type of issue runs true with all of the associations unfortunately.
 
Last I looked, you didn't save much premium going from 90-180 days.

I have a group policy and an individual policy, both with Standard. If I had it all to do over again, I probably would have bought a Principal one. (Actually I'm now told that when I bought it, Standard probably was best for me, so kudos to that agent for getting me the right policy. But if I was buying today, probably Principal.) But what's best for you depends on your gender, state, specialty, health problems, and when you bought it.
Jim, the rule of thumb is about 17% is the premium decrease you get for 180 day wait over the 90 day. I think I remember you stating you had your Standard from pre 2006, if so you are in good shape for sure.
 
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In regards to what?

Their physician disability insurance in general. Haven't had much a chance to shop premiums. I understand many have them and like them in some parts of the country. Seems their definition of "own occupation" is reasonable. Just curious if anyone here has looked at them recently and liked what they saw / why they decided against them.
 
Jim, the rule of thumb is about 17% is the premium decrease you get for 180 day wait over the 90 day. I think I remember you stating you had your Standard from pre 2006, if so you are in good shape for sure.

That makes it sound very appealing. I'd do it for 17%. The one time I priced it out (I think it was a Principal policy 2 or 3 years ago) it was a MUCH smaller premium difference. Like a trivial amount.
 
That makes it sound very appealing. I'd do it for 17%. The one time I priced it out (I think it was a Principal policy 2 or 3 years ago) it was a MUCH smaller premium difference. Like a trivial amount.
Every carrier is different, the Standard that you have is about 12%, Principal is about 12%, Ameritas is 15%, MetLife is about 22% so it is certainly all over but even if you want to get the 90 day EP as you build wealth you can use that as a lever to reduce premiums without getting rid of your coverage. You can always reduce the exposure of the company but you can't always add exposure to them without their permission.
 
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Their physician disability insurance in general. Haven't had much a chance to shop premiums. I understand many have them and like them in some parts of the country. Seems their definition of "own occupation" is reasonable. Just curious if anyone here has looked at them recently and liked what they saw / why they decided against them.

Their own occupation is certainly ok and it is a very good company. However if you want/need a policy that states 'if you can't do your medical specialty then we will pay 100% of your benefit regardless of any other occupation post disability and regardless of the income you earn from that' then Northwestern won't work for you because that is not how the policy is designed to behave at claim time.
 
$14,500 per month pay out, non taxed.

Make sure not to tax deduct your premiums otherwise you will pay taxes on the payout!!

Cost is a level plan, it will be approximately $386 when it tapers out. Right now I am at $586/mo.

The first $12,500 was only 286$ in the end, the newest $2000 which I upped last year will cost me $100... ridiculous!

NWM.... but it's cool. It's got COLA, etc.
 
I'm a PGY2 and I have a quick question. Is the advice still sounds regarding disability insurance during residency? As in I should pick and stick with a policy before I graduate and become BE/BC?

Also, @The White Coat Investor - I found this link on your website to help with explaining the basics: http://whitecoatinvestor.com/disability-insurance-introduction/

Twas published in 2011 and I'm wondering if the advice still applies now that we are in 2016?
 
I'm a PGY2 and I have a quick question. Is the advice still sounds regarding disability insurance during residency? As in I should pick and stick with a policy before I graduate and become BE/BC?

Also, @The White Coat Investor - I found this link on your website to help with explaining the basics: http://whitecoatinvestor.com/disability-insurance-introduction/

Twas published in 2011 and I'm wondering if the advice still applies now that we are in 2016?
Yes do it now before youre disabled.
 
$14,500 per month pay out, non taxed.

Make sure not to tax deduct your premiums otherwise you will pay taxes on the payout!!

Cost is a level plan, it will be approximately $386 when it tapers out. Right now I am at $586/mo.

The first $12,500 was only 286$ in the end, the newest $2000 which I upped last year will cost me $100... ridiculous!

NWM.... but it's cool. It's got COLA, etc.

You know you could keep the original $12.5 with NWM if it is a good deal and just pick up the extra $2k with someone else that is probably 1/2 the cost. Generally $30 per month per $1,000 for people in their 30's, $40 per month in the 40s and $50+/- per month for in their 50's for each $1,000 of benefit.
 

Thanks -- I've read that a couple times now. Have looked at several of the companies discussed here and been quoted several from a NWM agent who is trying to stay impartial but is, well, a NWM agent.

Their own occupation is certainly ok and it is a very good company. However if you want/need a policy that states 'if you can't do your medical specialty then we will pay 100% of your benefit regardless of any other occupation post disability and regardless of the income you earn from that' then Northwestern won't work for you because that is not how the policy is designed to behave at claim time.

This is what I don't like. That and the marketing approach they take to defining "own occupation."

Do you have any strong feelings between Guardian vs Principal these days? Is being an EM doc still a 4M class with Principal? I'm being told otherwise.
 
Anyone with any recent experience with Northwestern?

I was with them as a resident and it was pretty expensive for not much benefit. I really got the hard sell to stick with them, but switched to Principal.
 
Thanks -- I've read that a couple times now. Have looked at several of the companies discussed here and been quoted several from a NWM agent who is trying to stay impartial but is, well, a NWM agent.



This is what I don't like. That and the marketing approach they take to defining "own occupation."

Do you have any strong feelings between Guardian vs Principal these days? Is being an EM doc still a 4M class with Principal? I'm being told otherwise.
I think both Guardian and Principal are both great companies and will serve you well. As for the rate class of 4M that depends on the type of EM work you are doing. I would also look at MetLife too but be mindful that they have announced they are leaving the disability insurance space as of September 1, 2016. To shed a touch more light on that if you have bought or do buy a MetLife Policy then it probably is a Non-Cancelable product thus they can not change or cancel your policy.
 
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