Disability Insurance

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Dr.Evil1

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2004
Messages
325
Reaction score
1
For those of you in private practice:

Does your group routinely offer disability insurance as part of your compensation package or is this something you buy on your own?

I am just curious as an insurance agent tried to get me to buy disability insurance now and I don't really trust anyone who is trying to sell me anything.:rolleyes:

Members don't see this ad.
 
I have 66% covered by my contract.

I was going to get another 25% disabilty through those insurance companies, but cancelled at the last second...........

Its not something oyu'll need to figure out until about 4-5 months before the end of your last year (when hopefull you'll have a contract)

Q
 
My group doesn't offer it. I bought it on my own.

Max allowable benefit with COLA. Not cheap.

It hurts to buy but my wife and I think it's worth it.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I bought my own. Some groups don't provide it and others don't provide own occupation coverage which means as long as you can still slur the words "want fries with that?" you won't be considered disabled. The younger you are when you buy the cheaper and easier it is to get and if you are paying for it with after tax money the benefits are tax free. In the long run it seems cheap.
 
Disability is the MOST important insurance you can buy. You are much more likely to become disabled in your career then die. Imagine a back injury that keeps you from working for a couple of months and try to figure out how to pay your bills, feed your family and afford a house when your paycheck is not coming in.

Look for Same-speciality or "Own occ" coverage. Some will not pay if you can work "as a doctor" even if you are unable to work as an Emergency Physician.
 
Disability is the MOST important insurance you can buy. You are much more likely to become disabled in your career then die. Imagine a back injury that keeps you from working for a couple of months and try to figure out how to pay your bills, feed your family and afford a house when your paycheck is not coming in.

Look for Same-speciality or "Own occ" coverage. Some will not pay if you can work "as a doctor" even if you are unable to work as an Emergency Physician.

What does this mean? Does this mean that if I can sit down (i.e. rads) they wont pay me? im not at all qualified to read films all day. Part of the whole training bit is that I am an EM doc. Please help explain this thing to me.

Also when Quinn said he is covered at 66%, I assume thats the percentage of your salary? Am I correct?
 
What does this mean? Does this mean that if I can sit down (i.e. rads) they wont pay me? im not at all qualified to read films all day. Part of the whole training bit is that I am an EM doc. Please help explain this thing to me.

Let's say, for the sake of an example, that a emergency physician suffers a CVA and eventually has limited use of their left side, but can ambulate. Without "speciality" insurance or "own occ" defined to include emergency, the insurance company can, and will, claim that you could be a GP and see patients. They will point toward doing IME for worker's comp. or overseeing advanced providers in a GP clinic. It sucks, so cover yourself.

Also when Quinn said he is covered at 66%, I assume thats the percentage of your salary? Am I correct?

Yes, and disability payouts are tax free.

- H
 
Be sure to consult a reputable financial planner who deals specifically with physician disability plans because othewise your plan is not worth the paper it is printed on. Mutual of Omaha is my carrier. If you had a job by chance during medical school, you can actually lock in right before residency for a cheaper price and higher coverage. And the benefit of locking in earlier is a higher guaranteed coverage after residency or something to that effect. I just know it hurts to write the check yearly right now for the 2K, but it brings me piece of mind.
 
I have the "own occupation" coverage with a monthly payout of 10k. I bought the COLA (cost of living adjustment) rider with it which will allow for the 10k benefit to rise with the rate of inflation. If I were to become disabled tomorrow, I would get 10k monthly after the three month waiting period and this would increase with inflation until age 65.

It is vitally important to pay for your coverage with after-tax dollars so your benefit will be tax free. If you pay for it pre-tax (say as part of a cafeteria plan) you will pay taxes on the benefit.
 
Three questions

1. Is it cheaper in the long run to purchase disability in residency vs. postresidency?

2. The number one disability complaint is backpain, isn't it true that most policies do not cover back pain?

3. Most policies stipulate 3-6 month waiting period before payment, but I've heard many stories about companies waiting longer to repay. Furthermore, you may have people tracking you and photographing you to legitimize your disability during this time period. Is this true?
 
Three questions

1. Is it cheaper in the long run to purchase disability in residency vs. postresidency?

2. The number one disability complaint is backpain, isn't it true that most policies do not cover back pain?

3. Most policies stipulate 3-6 month waiting period before payment, but I've heard many stories about companies waiting longer to repay. Furthermore, you may have people tracking you and photographing you to legitimize your disability during this time period. Is this true?

Sorry, can't answer your first question except if you really haven't completed your specialty, it might be difficult to get the "own" occupation part unless you really are in that occupation when you buy it. In my experience, unless you are actually qualified in that specialty, your policy will state general medicine or something along that line.

2. Not sure if the most common doctor complaint is backpain - it certainly is within the population filing disability claims. But, it doesn't matter what is the cause of the inability to work...if you can't do your job (by a physician's assessment) - you can't. (Back pain used to be a big deal with dental disabilities which was the motivation for sitting down to work).

3. Waiting periods - you buy what you want. My husband bought a 3 month (12 week waiting period) actually. He could have bought a cheaper plan for a 6 month wait or a more expensive plan for a 1 month wait. We chose in the middle based on the risk we felt we could afford.

Now...how does it work - we actually got close to using it. My husband is a solo practioner general dentist. 19 years ago, he had a brain tumor removed - it was non-malignant, but we didn't know that until after it was removed. His surgeon had him at full bedrest, except for the bathroom and eating, post discharge from the hospital (3 days) for 1 week. Then, he could do "light" activity - walking, dressing, fixing meals, etc...no lifting children nor driving for 3 weeks. Then, he could drive (now we are at a month), but still no lifting > 10 lb.

So...at one month - he went into the office for a bit. We had friends of ours covering 3 days of restorative work, but most patients wanted to wait for the major work until he returned. In our state, the hygienist could work as long as there was a dentist nearby (the friends) & she did not give anesthesia. So...he would go in to check on the hygiene...but he did not have any energy at all for more than 1-2 hours.

His disability insurance would have kicked in at 12 weeks if he could not have gone back to work. But, he was able to get back to actually working by 8 weeks, altho not full days. He really didn't have the energy to work full days until about 24 weeks. So...we never utilized it. However, our policy stated that if he could not work as a general dentist (meaning doing restorative work - not consulting on insurance claims), they would have paid out. When you own your own practice...there is a fine line between having you gone for too long & what you'd lose vs what you'd gain financially with a disability payment. We ran the numbers & felt it was financially more sound for us to have him work rather than take the disability, altho the surgeon would have signed him out for another month or so.

Now, practically, what did that mean? The friends covering the office didn't really generate much production - it just allowed the office to not completely close. But, we utilize ALL of our savings to cover the overhead for those 8-10 weeks until he could start producing again.

So, my recommendation, read your policy clearly....does it cover overhead (if you have an office) or your income (& what level of income???) or both? Because, if you are like my husband, who had this happen at 33 yo with 2 toddlers, the income he needed then & the income he has needed when they went to college is far different. Also, read the policy - it should state that you are covered if you can't do your own specific job - in your case ER medicine. In our situation, many disabled or retired dentists become insurance consultants - at a much reduced income rate. His policy specifically stated that if he could not do restorative work on patients, they would pay, so he could still collect disability & become a consultant as well.

Finally, have enough liquid savings to cover whatever overhead you need. In our case, we needed the lease payment, the equipment loan payment, the employee salaries (they can't go without a job waiting for you to return & someone has to answer the phone) & your own personal income. And..have enough for the projected time it will take to recover. Also, I have been a cosigner on everything (altho my name does not appear on the business checks) I can sign them. So, I was able to pay the bills when he could not & it did not become a financial nightmare for our accountant to separate business from personal. So, get someone you trust who can do this basic function.

The specific time I know of someone who got the policy in school & did end up with a devastating disability for him - was a classmate of my husband. He had what he thought was a standard disability insurance, but he hadn't graduated, so he wasn't really a dentist yet. However, before he did graduate, he found out he had a severe mercury allergy & couldn't work with amalgam, which at that time was routine. So...his disability policy never kicked in because he never got to the point of being the actual insured (a dentist). So...read the fine print and hope you never need it!

Sorry for the long post.....good luck!
 
For those of you in private practice:

Does your group routinely offer disability insurance as part of your compensation package or is this something you buy on your own?

I am just curious as an insurance agent tried to get me to buy disability insurance now and I don't really trust anyone who is trying to sell me anything.:rolleyes:
You need to be a bit more open minded. What's most important is that you talk with an advisor who works primarily with physicians. They will fully understand disability insurance, both group plans and individual plans.

Second, your ability to earn an income is your biggest asset. You should protect that asset. If you ever become disabled, you will ask three questions:
1. When do I start getting my disability?
2. How much am I getting it?
3. How long will I get paid?

If you have only group coverage you will be disapointed...and it will be too late to get an individual plan.

Good luck.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Three questions

1. Is it cheaper in the long run to purchase disability in residency vs. postresidency?

2. The number one disability complaint is backpain, isn't it true that most policies do not cover back pain?

3. Most policies stipulate 3-6 month waiting period before payment, but I've heard many stories about companies waiting longer to repay. Furthermore, you may have people tracking you and photographing you to legitimize your disability during this time period. Is this true?
1. The earlier you get it the better. It's not necessarily what it costs. It's more important that you have it when you're disabled. Sounds funny, but more doctors try to get it after they start having symptoms for something. By then it can be too late.
2. Yes back pain is a big claim. If it wasn't an issue when the policy was issued, it won't be an issue if you become disabled from it. Physicians should be more concerned with the #2 cause of claims...mental/coginitive disorders including stress. Group plans and nearly every individual plans stop benefits after 24 months unless you are hospitalized.
3. A 3 month elimination period is the most cost effective. Test your insurance person...ask them, with a 3 month elimination period, when do you get the first check? So you know, it's the end of the 4th month. Benefits start to accrue after 3 months.

I hear that the best plan for physicians is Guardian/Berkshire. www.berkshirelife.com

Good luck!
 
I have 66% covered by my contract.

I was going to get another 25% disabilty through those insurance companies, but cancelled at the last second...........

Its not something oyu'll need to figure out until about 4-5 months before the end of your last year (when hopefull you'll have a contract)

Q
Read and know the details...you might be getting 66%, but the LTD plan almost always has a cap...say $10,000/month benefit. Depending on what you earn, you may not be covered as much as you think.

Group plans are cheap or free for a reason and you get what you pay for...don't wait until you're disabled (most do)
 
My group doesn't provide it. I tried to buy it but couldn't get it (HTN) so I'm bare. If I hurt my back or get crunched on the highway then my family starves. It's scary but that's how it is.
Yes, and disability payouts are tax free.
My understanding is that if you buy your own disability insurance with post tax dollars any payouts are tax free. If your employer gives you insurance (a non taxable benefit) then the payouts are taxable. Uncle Sam won't be denied even if you are laid up.
 
docB: hypertension got you denied or just a higher rate??
 
guess my htn and cholesterol are going to nix my chances.....
 
advice to you youngsters.....don't get old/don't get fat
 
My group doesn't provide it. I tried to buy it but couldn't get it (HTN) so I'm bare. If I hurt my back or get crunched on the highway then my family starves. It's scary but that's how it is.

My understanding is that if you buy your own disability insurance with post tax dollars any payouts are tax free. If your employer gives you insurance (a non taxable benefit) then the payouts are taxable. Uncle Sam won't be denied even if you are laid up.
HTN shouldn't be the only cause of your extraordinary rates. As a physician, I would look into the actual causes. That is extreme. Get a copy of your exam results from the insurance company. The good companies will write a physician even with HTN or other more serious issues. They will usually just put an exclusion on the policy.

I would get a second opinion.
 
HTN shouldn't be the only cause of your extraordinary rates. As a physician, I would look into the actual causes. That is extreme. Get a copy of your exam results from the insurance company. The good companies will write a physician even with HTN or other more serious issues. They will usually just put an exclusion on the policy.

I would get a second opinion.
Same results from three seperate brokers, three seperate exams trying to list with various underwriters. Got all the results, all the same. Tried to get exclusions on all three for HTN, future CVA an CAD and so on. No can do. It's a seller's market.
 
Top