Disadvantages of Caribbean?

[oxenstein]

I just received my scores from the April 2005 MCAT (V9 P8 B9 WP Total 26) and I am officialy confused on which road to pursue. I will apply to both DO and Allo, but I have not yet considered whether applying to the Caribbean should be an option. I get the sense that coming from the Caribbean puts you at a big disadvantage when applying to residencies. What are the disadvantages of going to the Caribbean? If it comes down to DO or Caribbean, should I choose DO over the Caribbean?

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[crys20]

From reading many of these threads I will say that most people are gonna say go DO. It does remain that in MOST residencies in the US, residency directors prefer DO to foreign medical grads.

Another thing is it sort of sucks to live on an island, many people fail out of the class (more than in DO classes) and the facilities tend to be sub par to DO schools which sometimes have even better facilities and organization administration-wise than US allo schools!

The only reason I think people choose the carib over DO is because of the whole two letters after your name thing. It will be easier to conceal where you went to school if you go carib. The only time I'd say go carib is if you want to do primary care, don't care where you do your residency really, and really dont want to be a DO.

 

[allendo]

I just received my scores from the April 2005 MCAT (V9 P8 B9 WP Total 26) and I am officialy confused on which road to pursue. I will apply to both DO and Allo, but I have not yet considered whether applying to the Caribbean should be an option. I get the sense that coming from the Caribbean puts you at a big disadvantage when applying to residencies. What are the disadvantages of going to the Caribbean? If it comes down to DO or Caribbean, should I choose DO over the Caribbean?

I chose D.O. b/c I've always wanted to be one and my family doc and mentor is a D.O. But, I considered carrib schools, the downfall was that at the time I was considering Texas(my home state) decided they were not going to accept grads from carrib schools for licensing! So that was a big deciding factor, plus I gained more confidence, retook mcat, and applied D.O.. I have two cousins in carrib right now b/c could'nt get into U.S. so we will see how it works out in four years. But I will say this, follow what you feel is best for you and don't let others on this message board confuse you with ignorance. Only you can decide what is in your best interest. Plus with that MCAT score you should get into any school you want if you interview well.

 

[dr.z]

Unless your GPA is very low, I don't think you'll have problem gaining admission at DO school. At least your MCAT is in the range. Whether to go DO or Carribean really depends on you. Do a search on SDN and see what other people have said, and see how you feel about it. In the end we will all be doctors whether DO or Carribean.

 

[tkim]

You should really post this question in the Carib forum, as you will most likely get opinions biased towards DO over Carib. Not that that's wrong - everyone has personal and specific reasons why they chose one thing over another. But you should ask current/past Carib students if they felt there were any disadvantages to going there. After all, they're *there*.

 

[hylacinerea]

According to aacom, attrition rates for 1st year students at all DO schools is 4.2%, including 1.8% for leaves of absence. The attrition rate declines each year after that and is 1.4% for 4th year students. There are Caribbean schools with attrition rates for 1st year of over 20%. A friend of mine rotated with a Ross student a few years ago who said that of the ~200 people in his class that started only about 90 made it to the clinical rotations. That would mean an attrition rate over 50%. The attrition rates for Caribbean schools aren't published (you can probably guess why) but from what I've read and heard a lot of people don't make it through the 1st year. After that, however, I think the attrition rates go down to numbers much more inline with US schools. I would guess that the large 1st year attrition is probably due to lower admissions standards.

I saw a list a while back (I think it was from the aamc) that showed the percentages of IMGs, DOs, and US MDs who make it to US residency programs. I don't recall the specific numbers at this time, but the percentage of DOs matching into any given US MD residency program was much higher than that of IMGs. I'll try to locate that document...

 

[Hajira786]

The attrition rates are only so high at Ross because Ross is a school that accepts students with lower GPAs and MCAT scores. They are a school that gives students who think they can become a doctor a chance. The fact that those students couldn't make it through is not the school's fault, they would have not made it through any school. At Ross you'll find students who should have made it into a US school, but for some reason didn't, but you will also find students who have no reason to be in Med school. These usually are the ones that increase the attrition rate. But going to Ross, at least they have a chance.

 

[GqDocStar]

my OPINION:

go to a place where you will be comfortable..in ALL or as many ways as possible with regards to academics, food, family connection, ect ect...avalibility of white castle or whatever makes you up.

most often that is the US. I learned the hard way to adjust to school and what things i needed, what meds to use for cold season, how much i need my family around for support even when its half assed, how much i enjoy driving around or going random places...all through undergrad...now im ready and set and know my likes dislikes, ways to adjust when i need to , how to do things in general in regards to my life and lifestyle. Even though its possible to do this overseas, i dont think i would want to add that on top of a medical school cirriculum.

If you have the grades eg.26 you said i think, i think you should give some weight to the above much marginilized fact. Also, its pretty much known that fmg vs. do really does not match when it comes to residency matching and other opportunities or discriminations. These are the facts of the field. MD isnt so hot if you are having difficulty passing boards or need very good scores because you are comming from overseas.

FMG doctors who are big shots now in hospitals tell me to this day to go D.O over overseas if you are at all in your right mind but overseas over D.O if you dont genuinely accept being a D.O. They work with D.Os and they work with FMGs all the time (on and in this particular situation..they also work with direcd md program students who they say are the least prefered). Im specifically talking about coney island /mimanodies hospitals that host the sgu clerkships. These doctors see the students and the residents and still say that the D.Os have NO burden of proving themselves at all at the hospital where as the FMGs are not quite the same.

Lastly...i know that i want to go D.O ..im currently waiting for one D.O school but if i dont get in...i wont be going to sgu or ross..ill be reapplying to d.o schools next year...to me its like this..if you are an md at heart (whatever that is) your choices are allo here or allo overseas...if you are a physician at heart...allo here, then do here then overseas...people confuse things and make the MD the biggest part when in the real life world of medicine the bigger question often is U.S educated or Foriegn educated. Thats a bigger question then md or do.

If you look into do as an alternative to allopathic medicine it would probably give you more answers then looking at it as equal to not making allo and being at the level of overseas. its definately not. if it was they would have simmilar requirements. its a different philosophy..or so it tries to maintain..the requirements are lower then md schools because they look to stress other things and get more well rounded applicants vs. lower admissions criteria for carrib schools who are lookign to get those who for whatever reason didnt get in or cant make the cut to BOTH DO AND MD SCHOOLS. these are two very different reasons for having a more leineant acceptance criteria. premeds think lower criteria is all the same. in the case of do schools, sorry to say but its not.

 

[NRAI2001]

my OPINION:

go to a place where you will be comfortable..in ALL or as many ways as possible with regards to academics, food, family connection, ect ect...avalibility of white castle or whatever makes you up.

most often that is the US. I learned the hard way to adjust to school and what things i needed, what meds to use for cold season, how much i need my family around for support even when its half assed, how much i enjoy driving around or going random places...all through undergrad...now im ready and set and know my likes dislikes, ways to adjust when i need to , how to do things in general in regards to my life and lifestyle. Even though its possible to do this overseas, i dont think i would want to add that on top of a medical school cirriculum.

If you have the grades eg.26 you said i think, i think you should give some weight to the above much marginilized fact. Also, its pretty much known that fmg vs. do really does not match when it comes to residency matching and other opportunities or discriminations. These are the facts of the field. MD isnt so hot if you are having difficulty passing boards or need very good scores because you are comming from overseas.

FMG doctors who are big shots now in hospitals tell me to this day to go D.O over overseas if you are at all in your right mind but overseas over D.O if you dont genuinely accept being a D.O. They work with D.Os and they work with FMGs all the time (on and in this particular situation..they also work with direcd md program students who they say are the least prefered). Im specifically talking about coney island /mimanodies hospitals that host the sgu clerkships. These doctors see the students and the residents and still say that the D.Os have NO burden of proving themselves at all at the hospital where as the FMGs are not quite the same.

Lastly...i know that i want to go D.O ..im currently waiting for one D.O school but if i dont get in...i wont be going to sgu or ross..ill be reapplying to d.o schools next year...to me its like this..if you are an md at heart (whatever that is) your choices are allo here or allo overseas...if you are a physician at heart...allo here, then do here then overseas...people confuse things and make the MD the biggest part when in the real life world of medicine the bigger question often is U.S educated or Foriegn educated. Thats a bigger question then md or do.

If you look into do as an alternative to allopathic medicine it would probably give you more answers then looking at it as equal to not making allo and being at the level of overseas. its definately not. if it was they would have simmilar requirements. its a different philosophy..or so it tries to maintain..the requirements are lower then md schools because they look to stress other things and get more well rounded applicants vs. lower admissions criteria for carrib schools who are lookign to get those who for whatever reason didnt get in or cant make the cut to BOTH DO AND MD SCHOOLS. these are two very different reasons for having a more leineant acceptance criteria. premeds think lower criteria is all the same. in the case of do schools, sorry to say but its not.

Thats BS!!! DO schools aren't more leineant on gpa and mcat bc they are looking for diversity..etc. They are more leineant bc students with lower stats usually apply to DO schools (myself included). They definitely need to fill the classes, and will take the best applicants possible, but they need to fill the classes no the less and will pick up the students with lower stats.

Everyone knows, admittingly or not, why people end up at DO schools or at Carribean schools, so there will be a bit of bias away from the two. The bias is probably less than some premeds and meds make it out to be. In the end you need to prove ur own worth, not prove your schools worth.

 

[DrBowtie]

I would say that more people would choose a D.O. over US allo than people who choose the Caribbean over US allo. D.O. definitely has its quirks that people PREFER.
So your comments aren't exactly true about why people end up at D.O.'s.

 

[NRAI2001]

I would say that more people would choose a D.O. over US allo than people who choose the Caribbean over US allo. D.O. definitely has its quirks that people PREFER.
So your comments aren't exactly true about why people end up at D.O.'s.

Certainly there is a percentage of each DO class that prefered to be there over an MD school, but it is definitely a small minority.

 

[NRAI2001]

my OPINION:

go to a place where you will be comfortable..in ALL or as many ways as possible with regards to academics, food, family connection, ect ect...avalibility of white castle or whatever makes you up.

most often that is the US. I learned the hard way to adjust to school and what things i needed, what meds to use for cold season, how much i need my family around for support even when its half assed, how much i enjoy driving around or going random places...all through undergrad...now im ready and set and know my likes dislikes, ways to adjust when i need to , how to do things in general in regards to my life and lifestyle. Even though its possible to do this overseas, i dont think i would want to add that on top of a medical school cirriculum.

If you have the grades eg.26 you said i think, i think you should give some weight to the above much marginilized fact. Also, its pretty much known that fmg vs. do really does not match when it comes to residency matching and other opportunities or discriminations. These are the facts of the field. MD isnt so hot if you are having difficulty passing boards or need very good scores because you are comming from overseas.

FMG doctors who are big shots now in hospitals tell me to this day to go D.O over overseas if you are at all in your right mind but overseas over D.O if you dont genuinely accept being a D.O. They work with D.Os and they work with FMGs all the time (on and in this particular situation..they also work with direcd md program students who they say are the least prefered). Im specifically talking about coney island /mimanodies hospitals that host the sgu clerkships. These doctors see the students and the residents and still say that the D.Os have NO burden of proving themselves at all at the hospital where as the FMGs are not quite the same.

Lastly...i know that i want to go D.O ..im currently waiting for one D.O school but if i dont get in...i wont be going to sgu or ross..ill be reapplying to d.o schools next year...to me its like this..if you are an md at heart (whatever that is) your choices are allo here or allo overseas...if you are a physician at heart...allo here, then do here then overseas...people confuse things and make the MD the biggest part when in the real life world of medicine the bigger question often is U.S educated or Foriegn educated. Thats a bigger question then md or do.

If you look into do as an alternative to allopathic medicine it would probably give you more answers then looking at it as equal to not making allo and being at the level of overseas. its definately not. if it was they would have simmilar requirements. its a different philosophy..or so it tries to maintain..the requirements are lower then md schools because they look to stress other things and get more well rounded applicants vs. lower admissions criteria for carrib schools who are lookign to get those who for whatever reason didnt get in or cant make the cut to BOTH DO AND MD SCHOOLS. these are two very different reasons for having a more leineant acceptance criteria. premeds think lower criteria is all the same. in the case of do schools, sorry to say but its not.

I too would probably pefer DO before going to sgu or ross.

 

[Dies Irae]

Certainly there is a percentage of each DO class that prefered to be there over an MD school, but it is definitely a small minority.

I would like to think there are a lot of us who chose DO because we wanted to, and not because we were MD rejects, but perhaps I'm being a bit optimistic.

 

[Braveheart]

To my understanding, if you truly want to become a MD and not do overseas, why not just go to a post bacc or linkage program and then go to medical school. That way you can prove yourself in the post bacc then go to medical school. This is the dillemma that I am facing right now. I really want to be a MD but however I want to prove myself in a post bacc that has a linkage. I will also be taking the MCAT in August, therefore I can also prove myself with my low GPA. How do u all feel?

 

[NRAI2001]

I would like to think there are a lot of us who chose DO because we wanted to, and not because we were MD rejects, but perhaps I'm being a bit optimistic.

Are you being truthful with urself? Even if I ended up at the carribean or DO school, I wouldn't have gone bc it was my first choice. True there are a few MD schools that I would choose certain DO schools over.

 

[Dies Irae]

Are you being truthful with urself? Even if I ended up at the carribean or DO school, I wouldn't have gone bc it was my first choice. True there are a few MD schools that I would choose certain DO schools over.

Yes. I had a very competative application and was accepted to 2 MD schools and 3 DO schools. I chose to go to a DO school.

 

[NRAI2001]

To my understanding, if you truly want to become a MD and not do overseas, why not just go to a post bacc or linkage program and then go to medical school. That way you can prove yourself in the post bacc then go to medical school. This is the dillemma that I am facing right now. I really want to be a MD but however I want to prove myself in a post bacc that has a linkage. I will also be taking the MCAT in August, therefore I can also prove myself with my low GPA. How do u all feel?

A lot of people don't make it through linkage programs. They must next weigh in their decisions
http://www.georgetown.edu/departments/physiology/physios/prevclass.htm
Thats y like half of the GT SMP class ended up at DO schools, people who originally were doing an SMP to get into an MD program.

 

[NRAI2001]

Yes. I had a very competative application and was accepted to 2 MD schools and 3 DO schools. I chose to go to a DO school.

Thats cool, but was ur first choice a DO school?

 

[Dies Irae]

Thats cool, but was ur first choice a DO school?

It was, but mostly because of location. I do not see enough of a difference between the two for it to be a factor since I am interested in FP. I am also interested in OMM, which was the final factor that made me go DO rather than MD.

 

[Braveheart]

It was, but mostly because of location. I do not see enough of a difference between the two for it to be a factor since I am interested in FP. I am also interested in OMM, which was the final factor that made me go DO rather than MD.

Congratulation DIES IRAE on your acceptance!!!!

 

[Braveheart]

A lot of people don't make it through linkage programs. They must next weigh in their decisions
http://www.georgetown.edu/departments/physiology/physios/prevclass.htm
Thats y like half of the GT SMP class ended up at DO schools, people who originally were doing an SMP to get into an MD program.

that links shows that there are way more GT SMP that ended up in MD schools. I think that those GT SMP that went to DO schools wanted to be there in the first place.

 

[NRAI2001]

that links shows that there are way more GT SMP that ended up in MD schools. I think that those GT SMP that went to DO schools wanted to be there in the first place.

The GT SMP program is a linkage program. They take like 20-30 people straight into the GT med school, so most of the people there have the goal of getting straigt into GT, its in no way a program to help you in beefing up their apps. Also most of the med school classes u take aren't transferable to other schools.

Also the link only shows placements upto 2002. It doesn't show 2003, 2004, or 2005. My friend who is currently in the program, said that they are really pushing people to go to DO schools in the program. He also said that a very large portion of his SMP program is ending up at DO schools.

 

[NRAI2001]

It was, but mostly because of location. I do not see enough of a difference between the two for it to be a factor since I am interested in FP. I am also interested in OMM, which was the final factor that made me go DO rather than MD.

Congradulations man, i in no way meant to knock on DO schools. I was just addressing the person who said that people went to carribean bc they were med school rejects and that people went to DO schools bc they were truely planning to go there all along and thats BS. Some people do truely want to become DO's, and a lot of others went there as a back up.

 

[Dies Irae]

Congradulations man, i in no way meant to knock on DO schools. I was just addressing the person who said that people went to carribean bc they were med school rejects and that people went to DO schools bc they were truely planning to go there all along and thats BS. Some people do truely want to become DO's, and a lot of others went there as a back up.

People's motivations are hard to determine and always subject to change. It is not impossible that a student who went DO because he couldn't get into MD schools eventually realizes that there really is value in it. But this issue has been beaten to death many times over already:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=205906

As for Carib schools: If you are someone who couldn't get into a US allopathic medical school and are considering alternatives, DO definately the better way to go.

 

[Braveheart]

The GT SMP program is a linkage program. They take like 20-30 people straight into the GT med school, so most of the people there have the goal of getting straigt into GT, its in no way a program to help you in beefing up their apps. Also most of the med school classes u take aren't transferable to other schools.

Also the link only shows placements upto 2002. It doesn't show 2003, 2004, or 2005. My friend who is currently in the program, said that they are really pushing people to go to DO schools in the program. He also said that a very large portion of his SMP program is ending up at DO schools.

I wonder why they are pushing people to do DO. Why are thinking of going toward DO medical school? No love for SMP no more?

 

[NRAI2001]

People's motivations are hard to determine and always subject to change. It is not impossible that a student who went DO because he couldn't get into MD schools eventually realizes that there really is value in it. But this issue has been beaten to death many times over already:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=205906

As for Carib schools: If you are someone who couldn't get into a US allopathic medical school and are considering alternatives, DO definately the better way to go.

Yes I totally agree, DO would be the better way in my opinion also.

 

[NiteOwl]

It depends on what is important to you on choosing between D.O. and Caribbean. From what I have heard, if the letters MD are important to you then choose the Caribbean, if not then DO.

 

[LSU-Tech]

Thats BS!!! DO schools aren't more leineant on gpa and mcat bc they are looking for diversity..etc. They are more leineant bc students with lower stats usually apply to DO schools (myself included). They definitely need to fill the classes, and will take the best applicants possible, but they need to fill the classes no the less and will pick up the students with lower stats.

Everyone knows, admittingly or not, why people end up at DO schools or at Carribean schools, so there will be a bit of bias away from the two. The bias is probably less than some premeds and meds make it out to be. In the end you need to prove ur own worth, not prove your schools worth.

Simma down now!! DO is competative; maybe not compared to most MD schools though. Take into consideration that even though a 3.37 may not be too impressive to John Hopkins, it's still not idiot numbers. I mean I've seen business and engineer majors with 2.2 2.4 GPAs.

Tell me how many people you have seen turned down from Ross. Now think of how many students apply and don't get into DO schools. Think about DO schools like the one in Texas (avr GPA around 3.5) Some people actually do want to go DO over MD. It is quite rare. However, no one goes Carribean over US allo. Not all DOs are desperate. However all FMGs are (it takes a lot of despiration to move to a second world country to pursue an education at a school that takes anyone. But hey, if you can get out then good for you.)